bobtehpanda Posted January 24, 2014 Share #1 Posted January 24, 2014 Higher Cost, More Delays for LIRR StationEast Side Access Project, Now Years Behind Schedule, Could Stretch to 2021 ByTed Mann Updated Jan. 24, 2014 8:40 a.m. ET The price tag for a vast new train station being built for the Long Island Rail Road beneath Midtown Manhattan could top $10 billion and its completion date could stretch into the next decade, officials said. Officials from the Metropolitan Transportation Authority will present a new timeline for the project, known as East Side Access, to members of the MTA board on Monday, and now believe trains might not run into the station until 2021 or beyond. Others within the authority said the project cost might not reach $10 billion, and noted that the higher estimates build in the risks of future delays. The timeline for completion also could be shortened, one official said. The MTA's most recent cost estimate was $8.2 billion. Amid the disappointment with the latest delays, the project executive overseeing East Side Access is departing, according to a person familiar with the matter. Alan Paskoff, a senior vice president at the MTA's Capital Construction division, will leave the agency in April, according to this person. Mr. Paskoff couldn't be reached for comment. The project, which was approved with the backing of state and federal officials including former Sen. Alfonse D'Amato and then-Gov. George Pataki and launched in 2001, is the largest and most technically complex of the MTA's so-called megaprojects, which include the first phase of the Second Avenue subway and the extension of the No. 7 line to the far West Side. The project would eventually allow the LIRR to send trains from its main line tracks in Queens through the unused lower level of a subway tunnel into Manhattan at East 63rd Street. From there, trains would proceed through newly bored tunnels to a new subterranean station in a pair of caverns carved out of the bedrock more than 100 feet beneath Park Avenue, north of the Grand Central Terminal building. MTA officials and the project's backers say the project could shave as many as 40 minutes off the daily round-trip commute for 80,000 LIRR riders who now take the train from Long Island to Penn Station, then commute back to the East Side of Manhattan. The project has been plagued by delays and cost overruns. In 2006, when a federal grant agreement was completed, the MTA said it could run LIRR trains into the station by December 2013. The date slipped to 2016 by 2010, when Federal Transit Administrator Peter Rogoff wrote to a U.S. senator that progress had been "grim." The new completion estimate has its roots in November 2012, when officials at the MTA's Capital Construction division rejected the bids for a major contract to build the "Manhattan Structures"—construction in the station caverns and related facilities and systems. The bids had come in some $365 million over the MTA's budget for that phase of work. Rather than accept the bids, MTA officials said, the authority rejected them and broke the Manhattan Structures contract into smaller segments, some of which are still being advertised for bids. An MTA spokesman declined to comment, saying the authority would first present its construction timeline and new cost range to board members. East Side Access has long divided some engineers and external critics from the MTA and its supporters in government, who have said it will ease commuting times and could free up space at Penn Station that could then be used by the MTA's other railroad, Metro-North. But critics have warned that the project's complexity, and the depth of the station when it is completed, make it impractical and wasteful given the other funding needs at the MTA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 24, 2014 Share #2 Posted January 24, 2014 More needs to be done to get a true cost analysis for these projects. It happens far too often that the timelines and the costs for these projects are so far off that it's ridiculous and really acceptable to us taxpayers footing the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missabassie Posted January 25, 2014 Share #3 Posted January 25, 2014 This sh1t is DEEP! (pun intended) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4 Via Merrick Rd Posted January 25, 2014 Share #4 Posted January 25, 2014 It ain't no surprise. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted January 25, 2014 Share #5 Posted January 25, 2014 15 years to build a 4 mile tunnel. Someone tell me the insanity in this. Even in the days of Tammany Hall things would be finished on time. Sure $30 million would vanish under mysterious circumstances, but officials looked the other way since it was done on time. Now? HA!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vistausss Posted January 25, 2014 Share #6 Posted January 25, 2014 15 years to build a 4 mile tunnel. I know, right? Building tunnels in the USA and Europe is going slooooow as hell these days... Where are the good ol' times when they actually built tunnels (almost) on time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted January 27, 2014 Share #7 Posted January 27, 2014 It's a shame, the IRT built the entire Broadway/Park Ave line in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missabassie Posted January 27, 2014 Share #8 Posted January 27, 2014 We just don't build like we used to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share #9 Posted January 27, 2014 It's a shame, the IRT built the entire Broadway/Park Ave line in a few years. We just don't build like we used to... And how many construction workers died during construction of the subway and East River tunnels? How much thought did we put into accommodating those with disabilities? How disruptive was trenching and cut-and-cover? While it's certainly a shame that the subway is proceeding slowly, let's not look at the past with rose-colored glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIRR 154 Posted January 28, 2014 Share #10 Posted January 28, 2014 And how many construction workers died during construction of the subway and East River tunnels? How much thought did we put into accommodating those with disabilities? How disruptive was trenching and cut-and-cover? While it's certainly a shame that the subway is proceeding slowly, let's not look at the past with rose-colored glasses. Exactly sandhogs have probably one if the most dangerous job in the city up there behind firefighters. And also when they retire they tend to live a short life from breathing only god knows what. I blame mismanage bidding and bad contractors. Not the workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share #11 Posted January 28, 2014 Exactly sandhogs have probably one if the most dangerous job in the city up there behind firefighters. And also when they retire they tend to live a short life from breathing only god knows what. I blame mismanage bidding and bad contractors. Not the workers. The way the article made it sound, they delegated everything to a bunch of smaller contractors which probably lowballed and weren't up to the job. If the big firms all submitted bids $365M higher than what the MTA wanted, then that suggests that the MTA was probably lowballing the price. $365M in overruns is a small price to pay compared to whatever the hell this mess is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIRR 154 Posted January 29, 2014 Share #12 Posted January 29, 2014 Anybody read what the consultants advice for the MTA on this matter. He advise them to create " managerial positions" to oversee the project. You can't make this crap up. You have to laugh.My question is what was the last managers overseeing this project doing and do they get fired. Also how are more stiffs in suits going to correct this while the first stiffs in suits didn't do squat. The MTA paid a consultant some millions to be advised to create more money waste positions .Lol . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share #13 Posted January 29, 2014 Anybody read what the consultants advice for the MTA on this matter. He advise them to create " managerial positions" to oversee the project. You can't make this crap up. You have to laugh.My question is what was the last managers overseeing this project doing and do they get fired. Also how are more stiffs in suits going to correct this while the first stiffs in suits didn't do squat. The MTA paid a consultant some millions to be advised to create more money waste positions .Lol . According to reports, they didn't actually have much in the way of project management in the first place, and there was very little accountability because no one was taking responsibility. For what it's worth, Prendergast has now said that he is going to head a committee that will try and aggressively rein in costs, whatever that means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtiger Posted January 30, 2014 Share #14 Posted January 30, 2014 all this is insane!!! taking a over a decade to build the freedom tower....and 15+ for this!!! Didn't it take a little over a year to build the empire state building? something is stinking with these projects!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIRR 154 Posted January 30, 2014 Share #15 Posted January 30, 2014 According to reports, they didn't actually have much in the way of project management in the first place, and there was very little accountability because no one was taking responsibility. For what it's worth, Prendergast has now said that he is going to head a committee that will try and aggressively rein in costs, whatever that means. Do you believe that? A major and i mean MAJOR capitol project didn't have project management in place from the start. Thats baloney.. Sounds to me he is trying to save face for the screwups at that the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share #16 Posted January 30, 2014 Do you believe that? A major and i mean MAJOR capitol project didn't have project management in place from the start. Thats baloney.. Sounds to me he is trying to save face for the screwups at that the start. Do I believe that an agency that has a problem with keeping high-level staff for longer than two years bungled a project in so much bureaucracy that they had too many cooks in the kitchen trying to manage the thing, and no one had a full picture? It's entirely possible, since this project has been in the works since the beginning of the MTA and the fact that we can't seem to actually keep MTA Chairmen that can keep things moving. Eliot Sander's 40 Year Vision left with him. When Jay Walder left, they stopped pushing the smartcards and the deadlines fell back to 2019, despite the fact that we've had many trials of various system. There is no accountability if you can't tell who's going to be at the top tomorrow. At least Prendergast doesn't look like he's going to leave anytime soon given his long history at the MTA (unlike, say, staff who got lured by million-dollar salaries or the Republican party) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vistausss Posted January 30, 2014 Share #17 Posted January 30, 2014 all this is insane!!! taking a over a decade to build the freedom tower....and 15+ for this!!! Didn't it take a little over a year to build the empire state building? something is stinking with these projects!! Apparently, Minneapolis still knows how to build when it comes to the newest LRT addition, the Green Line: http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/241478411.html They're even done 6 months earlier than expected! Europe and NYC can learn something from those workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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