Reason for running through a red-light?

[AndrewJC]

If drivers have to run red lights to stay on time, there is clearly not enough time allotted in the schedule. The MTA shoukdnt be asking their drivers to break the law, nor tolerate that. 

 

If you have any evidence to indicate that bus drivers have to run red lights to stay on time, please present it. Nobody's asking bus drivers to break the law.

 

Car drivers also run red lights. Why? They're not trying to maintain a schedule.

 

I often ride buses that stop for green lights, because they're consistently running ahead of schedule. I'd rather not see even more running time added to the schedule, thank you very much.

 

True, but I've noticed buses flagrantly going through red lights when they have had plenty of opportunity to stop. The yellows need to be made longer. You should not have to slam on your brakes in order to stop when going at the speed limit.

 

You don't have to slam on your brakes in order to stop when going at the speed limit. People run red lights because they aren't paying attention, or because they're speeding, or because they simply don't care (and they know that their chances of being caught are virtually nil, unless there's a camera). (Your police precinct, for instance, issued 39 tickets for running red lights in the first two months of 2014 - that's two tickets per three days!

 

The yellows are shortened on purpose in some cases to give out more tickets where they have cameras. 

 

Aren't urban legends just great?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Aren't urban legends just great?

I don't think it's an urban legend at all.  This city does anything and everything to make a buck.  There were numerous reports showing how the city erected confusing/contradicting signs which essentially baited drivers into parking and then getting hit with tickets.  It wouldn't be that easy to tell right away for some if the yellow lights were indeed made shorter.

[BrooklynBus]

If you have any evidence to indicate that bus drivers have to run red lights to stay on time, please present it. Nobody's asking bus drivers to break the law.

 

Car drivers also run red lights. Why? They're not trying to maintain a schedule.

 

I often ride buses that stop for green lights, because they're consistently running ahead of schedule. I'd rather not see even more running time added to the schedule, thank you very much.

 

 

You don't have to slam on your brakes in order to stop when going at the speed limit. People run red lights because they aren't paying attention, or because they're speeding, or because they simply don't care (and they know that their chances of being caught are virtually nil, unless there's a camera). (Your police precinct, for instance, issued 39 tickets for running red lights in the first two months of 2014 - that's two tickets per three days!

 

 

Aren't urban legends just great?

 

You are wrong on all accounts.  

 

1- What evidence could I have other than what I witnessed. I don't go around with a running webcam all the time.  I reported the last incident to the MTA and am still waiting for a response. 

 

2- Yes, buses stop at yellow and green lights when they are ahead of schedule. They also run red lights when they are behind. One driver here even admitted that and asked everyone to keep quiet and accept it as a fact of life. It's not a question of reducing running time all over or adding running time all over, but making running time realistic to minimize running red lights and stopping at green ones.

 

3- How do you know that car drivers don't also have a personal schedule to keep?  I'm not giving them permission to run red lights so don't twist what I am saying like you usually do.

 

4 - Yes if are are approaching a signal turning yellow, you must slam on your brakes if you don't want to stop past the crosswalk and then back up even if you are going at the speed limit. I'm not saying you have to come to a screeching halt. But you definitely do not have enough time to come to a comfortable stop. If the signal has a short yellow, or if you are going down a hill or carrying a heavy load, or the streets are wet, stopping in time is even more difficult unless you are going well below the speed limit. 

 

5 - And your response to Garibaldi about urban legends is also incorrect. There have been documented court cases where yellows have been specifically altered to increase the number of summonses given. And I don't go saving links for every web page I look at.

 

6 - And in response to your statistics about very few traffic violations being given out, don't forget to mention the instances where the police are making up violations just to summons law abiding motorists. There was a story yesterday in the news how a driver saved himself a $150 fine when the court threw out his ticket for making a left turn from the improper lane when he presented dashcam evidence that he made the left turn from the proper lane after all! Now do you think he would have been able to prove his innocence without that camera? And what percentage of ordinary cars would you say are equipped with dashcam cameras, and how many are found guilt y everyday for made up violations? There also was an incident yesterday in the news of a sanitation officer moving trash in from of a buildings stairway and then writing a summons for blocking the sidewalk. Also caught on a surveillance camera which was just bought after the same owner paid a for a similar sanitation fine the previous month.

 

So quit citing statistics to prove only one side of the story to prove your points. Yes some motorists literally are getting away with murder, but innocent motorists are also caught up in an unfair system. And what was the penalty to those officers fabricating violations? Did they lose their jobs or were they given a slap on the wrist?

[B35 via Church]

"Some county in New Jersey doing it" does not mean every county using red light cameras does it. New York's court has processed many red light violations already, and some drivers are more prepared to fight it than others; if this was happening systematically, someone would have caught it by now; it's a giant red meat story for the tabloids here.

 

This is the same thing as saying, "many riders in a part of the city farebeat and leave food everywhere. Therefore, all MTA riders farebeat and leave food everywhere."

The point of it not being every county is immaterial.....

 

If you don't think these red light cameras aren't being used for nefarious purposes, well that's your prerogative....But that analogy, wow, that's not even close to what VG8 was saying - The only parallel he drew was that of "some county in NJ", and here in NYC... That is not him saying it is happening everywhere (as the analogy implies).....

 

And also, this city trying to siphon money out of motorists by doctoring the timing of yellows-to-reds is nothing new... The only difference here in the 21st century is that they've caught up with the times in documenting those that are running red lights (the ones that do so selfishly/purposefully, or the ones that can't stop at an intersection on time because the yellows are so damn quick here in a lot of intersections nowadays) with these cameras..... There are other cities (such as Dallas & Nashville) that got busted a couple years ago pulling this same crap.... Btw, no, I'm not implicating every city is engaging in such underhanded tactics; don't need to embellish such a thing - the fact that ONE instance of this is happening, is enough, let alone several.....

 

I'm warning you guys, stop being noisy about this... The MTA'll start sending MORE goons out there to bust ops, and then EVERYONE will be dragging the line, stopping at green lights before they turn yellow so they don't get caught (there's enough of that goin on as is). Running thru red lights happens, it's just inevitable, so just let this go...

Who are these goons that you speak of (serious question, no sarcasm or nothin like that)....

In other words, what (job/position) title holders within the MTA is it you're saying the MTA would send out there to bust ops?

 

What you're alluding to with this, sounds like something the police would get involved in - Either on their own, or in joint efforts with the MTA.... But the MTA themselves going about doing this, I don't see it.....

 

I don't think it's an urban legend at all.  This city does anything and everything to make a buck.  There were numerous reports showing how the city erected confusing/contradicting signs which essentially baited drivers into parking and then getting hit with tickets.  It wouldn't be that easy to tell right away for some if the yellow lights were indeed made shorter.

....And your response to Garibaldi about urban legends is also incorrect. There have been documented court cases where yellows have been specifically altered to increase the number of summonses given.

Of course these lights are being jimmyed/doctored/tinkered with/altered/whatever term you wanna use.... As one of the many drivers in this state, I (also, since BrooklynBus drives as well) can vouch for this.... There is no urban legend (like this crap isn't going on), there's most certainly a conflict of interest going on here.... They know that speeding in general is a nationwide problem, so to garner more money from motorists, they f*** with the yellow signal (knowing that you are allowed to either speed up [meaning, enter the intersection] or slow down) to try to catch even more people running red lights.....

 

Who does this target? People that aren't even speeding.....

[B35 via Church]

If you don't think these red light cameras aren't being used for nefarious purposes, well that's your prerogative....

Should read:

 

If you think these red light cameras aren't being used for nefarious purposes, well that's your prerogative....

[AndrewJC]

You are wrong on all accounts.  

 

1- What evidence could I have other than what I witnessed. I don't go around with a running webcam all the time.  I reported the last incident to the MTA and am still waiting for a response. 

 

2- Yes, buses stop at yellow and green lights when they are ahead of schedule. They also run red lights when they are behind. One driver here even admitted that and asked everyone to keep quiet and accept it as a fact of life. It's not a question of reducing running time all over or adding running time all over, but making running time realistic to minimize running red lights and stopping at green ones.

 

3- How do you know that car drivers don't also have a personal schedule to keep?  I'm not giving them permission to run red lights so don't twist what I am saying like you usually do.

 

4 - Yes if are are approaching a signal turning yellow, you must slam on your brakes if you don't want to stop past the crosswalk and then back up even if you are going at the speed limit. I'm not saying you have to come to a screeching halt. But you definitely do not have enough time to come to a comfortable stop. If the signal has a short yellow, or if you are going down a hill or carrying a heavy load, or the streets are wet, stopping in time is even more difficult unless you are going well below the speed limit. 

 

5 - And your response to Garibaldi about urban legends is also incorrect. There have been documented court cases where yellows have been specifically altered to increase the number of summonses given. And I don't go saving links for every web page I look at.

 

6 - And in response to your statistics about very few traffic violations being given out, don't forget to mention the instances where the police are making up violations just to summons law abiding motorists. There was a story yesterday in the news how a driver saved himself a $150 fine when the court threw out his ticket for making a left turn from the improper lane when he presented dashcam evidence that he made the left turn from the proper lane after all! Now do you think he would have been able to prove his innocence without that camera? And what percentage of ordinary cars would you say are equipped with dashcam cameras, and how many are found guilt y everyday for made up violations? There also was an incident yesterday in the news of a sanitation officer moving trash in from of a buildings stairway and then writing a summons for blocking the sidewalk. Also caught on a surveillance camera which was just bought after the same owner paid a for a similar sanitation fine the previous month.

 

So quit citing statistics to prove only one side of the story to prove your points. Yes some motorists literally are getting away with murder, but innocent motorists are also caught up in an unfair system. And what was the penalty to those officers fabricating violations? Did they lose their jobs or were they given a slap on the wrist?

 

Of course you think I'm wrong on all accounts.

 

You made the claim that bus drivers have to run red lights to stay on time. I'm asking you for a shred of evidence that supports that assertion. You're making a very serious accusation, and I hope you wouldn't make a serious accusation without any evidence. Bus drivers still get paid in full - and perhaps pick up a bit of overtime! - if they run late. I highly doubt that running red lights is ever encouraged, regardless of how late the bus may be.

 

Bus running times are adjusted periodically, and with BusTime the updates can be more accurate and more frequent.  But there is always going to be a lot of variability in bus running times, and there's no such thing as a perfect schedule that always accurately reflects running times. No matter what the schedule looks like, some buses will sometimes run late.

 

I've driven many, many miles in the city, and I've stopped for many, many red lights. I've never had to slam on the brakes for a yellow or red light unless I'm speeding or not watching where I'm going. If the street is wet, perhaps you should slow down a bit.

 

Red light cameras have been killed politically in many places, simply because motorists dislike being held to the law. If there is a serious concern that some yellow phases may be too short, then incorporate requirements for yellow phases in the law authorizing red light cameras.

 

I have no idea what your rant in #6 has to do with anything I wrote. Do you think that 39 red light tickets over two months in an entire police precinct serves as even the slightest disincentive to run red lights?

 

Red light cameras save lives. Anyone who does not wish to pay a red light ticket can simply not run red lights.

 

 

[N6 Limited]

That video is FOS. There's a difference in crossing just as the yellow turns red, and what's seen in the video.

[traingoat]

That video showed inattentive driving and blatant disregard of the red light.  Now those areas which showed the reduction were areas where the light meant nothing for either side meaning they jump the green or forgot about the red.

[MHV9218]

That video is FOS. There's a difference in crossing just as the yellow turns red, and what's seen in the video.

 

I see you have totally and completely missed the point. 

[BrooklynBus]

To Andrew JC:

 

Of course you will say that #6 has nothing to do what you wrote. You are only interested in presenting one side of the story (your side) about how great red light and speed cameras are, and how drivers are always wrong. I am glad at least that you admit you are one of those drivers who speed and "am not watching where I am going." making you a deadly risk on the roads. I have also admitted to speeding which is perfectly safe in some instances, but I never driven inattentively which is the same as not watching where you are going. That is more deadly than speeding. All it takes is one mistake at the wrong time and you. Become one of those murderous drivers you so often criticize. You can also drive well below the speed limit and be a risk on the roads and a poor driver.

 

I also don't believe that you never have had to slam on your brakes when driving at the speed limit when you are approaching a signal. I have to do it every day. Just yesterday I was driving at about 15 mph and had to hit my brakes hard to stop just at the crosswalk. It depends on how close you are to te corner when the light changes.

 

If a bus driver is not behind schedule, he has absolutely no reason to blatantly go through a red light when he is driving slow and has plenty of time to stop. You may have not seen it, but I have seen it many times and a bus driver here even admitted it is common practice and we should learn to just live with it. That is enough evidence as far as I am concerned.

 

Open up your mind to what really goes on instead of always just looking for facts to defend your point of view.

 

I also have a video for you to watch which you once stated, you turned off after the first 15 seconds. That was because you just didn't want to see the facts which you would have to deal with if you knew them. So quit asking us to watch your BS videos when you don't want to watch a scientific one with real data.

 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Of course you think I'm wrong on all accounts.

 

You made the claim that bus drivers have to run red lights to stay on time. I'm asking you for a shred of evidence that supports that assertion. You're making a very serious accusation, and I hope you wouldn't make a serious accusation without any evidence. Bus drivers still get paid in full - and perhaps pick up a bit of overtime! - if they run late. I highly doubt that running red lights is ever encouraged, regardless of how late the bus may be.

 

Bus running times are adjusted periodically, and with BusTime the updates can be more accurate and more frequent.  But there is always going to be a lot of variability in bus running times, and there's no such thing as a perfect schedule that always accurately reflects running times. No matter what the schedule looks like, some buses will sometimes run late.

 

You are so naïve when it comes to the . The has not done much with regards to using BusTime or BusTrek (is that even up and running yet after all of this time?) to adjust schedules so that drivers have enough time for their runs.  Some routes have good run times, and others are horrendous... The driver always has to be trying to floor the bus just to make the schedule.  I've seen it plenty of times myself while riding buses, and several B/O's on here have confirmed it.

[BrooklynBus]

You are so naïve when it comes to the . The has not done much with regards to using BusTime or BusTrek (is that even up and running yet after all of this time?) to adjust schedules so that drivers have enough time for their runs.  Some routes have good run times, and others are horrendous... The driver always has to be trying to floor the bus just to make the schedule.  I've seen it plenty of times myself while riding buses, and several B/O's on here have confirmed it.

And I've had bus drivers tell me that some schedules are just impossible to meet. One told me the only way he can arrive at the end of the route on time is by leaving 3 minutes early from the prior terminal. Andrew dismisses that by saying drivers are always complaining of not enough time and can't be beleved because they don't complain when there is excessive time in the schedule. He has an answer for everything and ignores all data that do not fit in with his theories and finds data only to support what he already believes.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

And I've had bus drivers tell me that some schedules are just impossible to meet. One told me the only way he can arrive at the end of the route on time is by leaving 3 minutes early from the prior terminal. Andrew dismisses that by saying drivers are always complaining of not enough time and can't be beleved because they don't complain when there is excessive time in the schedule. He has an answer for everything and ignores all data that do not fit in with his theories and finds data only to support what he already believes.

I'm really of the belief that this Andrew guy works for the , or wants to work for the , hence why he constantly brown noses and defends them every chance he gets.  There is no question that he definitely has an angle, that's for sure.

[BrooklynBus]

I'm really of the belief that this Andrew guy works for the , or wants to work for the , hence why he constantly brown noses and defends them every chance he gets.  There is no question that he definitely has an angle, that's for sure.

He has denied working for the MTA or having ever worked for the MTA. He has admitted to having friends in Operations Plannng. Other than that, he has revealed virtually nothing about himself other than he frequently uses the system and occasionally drives. He very rarely criticizes anything the MTA does and when he does, he usually blames Operations rather than an management, which makes his statement sticking up or bus operators surprising. Virtually all the time he is defending the status quo, but is not a fan of any elected official. I have yet to figure out his angle.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

He has denied working for the MTA or having ever worked for the MTA. He has admitted to having friends in Operations Plannng. Other than that, he has revealed virtually nothing about himself other than he frequently uses the system and occasionally drives. He very rarely criticizes anything the MTA does and when he does, he usually blames Operations rather than an management, which makes his statement sticking up or bus operators surprising. Virtually all the time he is defending the status quo, but is not a fan of any elected official. I have yet to figure out his angle.

Neither have I, but he certainly has one, and I believe he knows far too much not to be affiliated with the in any way.

[MHV9218]

To Andrew JC:

 

Of course you will say that #6 has nothing to do what you wrote. You are only interested in presenting one side of the story (your side) about how great red light and speed cameras are, and how drivers are always wrong. I am glad at least that you admit you are one of those drivers who speed and "am not watching where I am going." making you a deadly risk on the roads. I have also admitted to speeding which is perfectly safe in some instances, but I never driven inattentively which is the same as not watching where you are going. That is more deadly than speeding. All it takes is one mistake at the wrong time and you. Become one of those murderous drivers you so often criticize. You can also drive well below the speed limit and be a risk on the roads and a poor driver.

 

I also don't believe that you never have had to slam on your brakes when driving at the speed limit when you are approaching a signal. I have to do it every day. Just yesterday I was driving at about 15 mph and had to hit my brakes hard to stop just at the crosswalk. It depends on how close you are to te corner when the light changes.

 

If a bus driver is not behind schedule, he has absolutely no reason to blatantly go through a red light when he is driving slow and has plenty of time to stop. You may have not seen it, but I have seen it many times and a bus driver here even admitted it is common practice and we should learn to just live with it. That is enough evidence as far as I am concerned.

 

Open up your mind to what really goes on instead of always just looking for facts to defend your point of view.

 

I also have a video for you to watch which you once stated, you turned off after the first 15 seconds. That was because you just didn't want to see the facts which you would have to deal with if you knew them. So quit asking us to watch your BS videos when you don't want to watch a scientific one with real data.

 

 

 

This video lost credibility after he pulled a "that's socialism" a minute in. But you also miss the point of his video. He specifically states he's only talking about highways without pedestrians and intersections--totally different than NYC.

[BrooklynBus]

This video lost credibility after he pulled a "that's socialism" a minute in. But you also miss the point of his video. He specifically states he's only talking about highways without pedestrians and intersections--totally different than NYC.

So we have no highways in NYC without pedestrians and intersections? That's news to me.

 

I didn't miss the point of the video. It's valid for what it says. No one is drawing any further conclusions.