The MTA is Incompetently Operating the B44 and B36 Buses

[BrooklynBus]

I made my statement based on actual facts.  The commercial area is dirtier now, so yes it has declined in some parts.  

 

 

As for race not mattering when people need to get somewhere, no one ever said that it did.  What was stated was that due to changing demographics, ridership on the B4 will probably increase. I don't understand what part of that is so "negative" or "wrong".

 

I don't see it either. As far as the commercial strip I have to agree with you. Sheepshead Bay Road was never too clean, but when an Asian fruit market opened it got noticeably dirtier in front of the store. It seems like they dump their dirty water out in the gutter and it stinks. I noticed the same thing at an Asian fish store in Downtown Brooklyn. I don't know what is wrong with these shop owners. There once was a Korean Fish Market in Brighton Beach that has since closed which was always bright and clean. But it s still wrong to make a broad generalization regarding an entire neighborhood based on the actions of a few store owners.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't see it either. As far as the commercial strip I have to agree with you. Sheepshead Bay Road was never too clean, but when an Asian fruit market opened it got noticeably dirtier in front of the store. It seems like they dump their dirty water out in the gutter and it stinks. I noticed the same thing at an Asian fish store in Downtown Brooklyn. I don't know what is wrong with these shop owners. There once was a Korean Fish Market in Brighton Beach that has since closed which was always bright and clean. But it s still wrong to make a broad generalization regarding an entire neighborhood based on the actions of a few store owners.

lol.... Well now you see my point... Of course I'm not referring to every person in Bensonhurst.  Don't be ridiculous.  You know what I mean, and you just confirmed it.

 

In any event, has it ever dawned on you that B44's being sent to KCC could be delayed due to traffic on Emmons?

[realizm]

@Garibaldi.

 

To say that since the Italians moved out and the Asians moved in, the neighborhood has declined, is a negative statement.

 

@Realism

 

You are correct. Race doesn't matter as far as mass transit goes. If someone needs to get somewhere, the mass transit system needs to serve them. Of course you can't have a direct route where everyone needs to go, but most trips should not require more than two buses, or a bus and several trains.

Exactly! Nailed it. +1. And:

 

 

I don't see it either. As far as the commercial strip I have to agree with you. Sheepshead Bay Road was never too clean, but when an Asian fruit market opened it got noticeably dirtier in front of the store. It seems like they dump their dirty water out in the gutter and it stinks. I noticed the same thing at an Asian fish store in Downtown Brooklyn. I don't know what is wrong with these shop owners. There once was a Korean Fish Market in Brighton Beach that has since closed which was always bright and clean. But it s still wrong to make a broad generalization regarding an entire neighborhood based on the actions of a few store owners.

 

Thank you. Theres a huge difference between stating facts and stating negative stereotypes. +1.

 

I'll say this too, all commercial areas in general are going to be more heavily trafficked and 'dirtier' unlike as someone here keeps on emphasizing on which has no effect on the flow of bus service or customer base based on 'ethnicity', as someone may think.

 

Its a baseless point to make what we are seeing being said here: That uncleanness in neighborhoods and effects on transportation is based on racial demographics stereotypes and claiming it to be 'facts' ,then stating the opposite said when people respond with disgust just to save face and cause confusion. Arguing for the sake of arguing and unnerving people? Thats not facts, thats stereotypical thinking which is flawed.

 

 

I made my statement based on actual facts.  The commercial area is dirtier now, so yes it has declined in some parts.  

 

 

As for race not mattering when people need to get somewhere, no one ever said that it did.  What was stated was that due to changing demographics, ridership on the B4 will probably increase. I don't understand what part of that is so "negative" or "wrong".

Fact: New York in general is dirty right up to Midtown Manhattan and Union Square or Times Square or the Financial District all commercial areas -not- just like the Asian American or black communities.

 

Furthermore, I dont see how that affects M1 M2 M3 M4 or M14A or M14D service lets say either. There are more pertinent reasons in that case why the services has its problems. Such as heavy commercial traffic, problems with zoning and the like. Let alone your claim on the B4 vs the B70 which runs through Asian neighborhoods more or less, like it matters.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Exactly! Nailed it. +1. And:

 

 

Thank you. Theres a huge difference between stating facts and stating negative stereotypes. +1.

 

I'll say this too, all commercial areas in general are going to be more heavily trafficked and 'dirtier' unlike as someone here keeps on emphasizing on which has no effect on the flow of bus service or customer base based on 'ethnicity', as someone may think.

 

Its a baseless point to make what we are seeing being said here: That uncleanness in neighborhoods and effects on transportation is based on racial demographics stereotypes and claiming it to be 'facts' ,then stating the opposite said when people respond with disgust just to save face and cause confusion. Arguing for the sake of arguing and unnerving people? Thats not facts, thats stereotypical thinking which is flawed.

 

 

Fact: New York in general is dirty right up to Midtown Manhattan and Union Square or Times Square or the Financial District all commercial areas -not- just like the Asian American or black communities.

 

Furthermore, I dont see how that affects M1 M2 M3 M4 or M14A or M14D service lets say either. There are more pertinent reasons in that case why the services has its problems. Such as heavy commercial traffic, problems with zoning and the like. Let alone your claim on the B4 vs the B70 which runs through Asian neighborhoods more or less, like it matters.

lol... If a neighborhood is dirty, it's dirty.  Not much to dispute.  If the sidewalks are filthy and there's trash all over the place, that's what it is.  Might as well accept it and move on.  The pros for Bensonhurst in the future will probably be more bus service via the B4 due to "changing ridership patterns" (happy now?  ) but dirtier streets.  And the discussion on my end was never about the B70, but the B4 and B44.

[realizm]

lol... If a neighborhood is dirty, it's dirty.  Not much to dispute.  If the sidewalks are filthy and there's trash all over the place, that's what it is.  Might as well accept it and move on.  The pros for Bensonhurst in the future will probably be more bus service via the B4 due to "changing ridership patterns" (happy now?  ) but dirtier streets.  And the discussion on my end was never about the B70, but the B4 and B44.

Lets rewind the video tape:

 

 

It most certainly does.  I would know because I've been using the B4 for a good 20 years and see who rides and gets on where.  No, the B4 isn't as heavily used as the B70.  The point is in due time that may change as the demographics change in that area.  Thank you.

So as you were saying?

 

*Footnote: Also refer to page 10.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/44850-the-mta-is-incompetently-operating-the-b44-and-b36-buses/?p=771365

 

So as you were saying?

 

*Footnote: Also refer to page 10.

Yeah, as I said before, I'm not the one that introduced the B70 into this discussion, that was my point. 

[realizm]

Point was already conclusively made and proven on this twisting of logic and not going to go in circles with this. So as I was saying as well as everyone else in this thread: Passenger usage according to the MTA is not defined by racial demographics or how unclean the neighborhood is as someone stated (refer to page 9, 10, 11). Wrong. It is defined by:

1) Number of passengers by hour
2) Spacial distance by standee per square foot
3) Bus headway and buses per hour much like with NYC Transit and trains per hour
4) Number of persons seated
5) Percentage of standees (%)
6) Number of customers per half hour
7) Time of day (AM rush, midday, PM rush, Late night

Thats how its calculated by the MTA. Not by looking and keeping a tally on how many Asians are on a bus or how dirty a neighborhood or commercial district looks.. facts...

 

Source: http://web.mta.info/mta/compliance/pdf/supplemental-info.pdf

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Point was already conclusively made and proven on this twisting of logic and not going to go in circles with this. So as I was saying as well as everyone else in this thread: Passenger usage according to the MTA is not defined by racial demographics or how unclean the neighborhood is as someone stated (refer to page 10, 11). Wrong. It is defined by:

 

1) Number of passengers by hour

2) Spacial distance by standee per square foot

3) Bus headway and buses per hour much like with NYC Transit and trains per hour

4) Number of persons seated

5) Percentage of standees (%)

6) Number of customers per half hour

7) Time of day (AM rush, midday, PM rush, Late night

 

Thats how its calculated by the MTA. Not by looking and keeping a tally on how many Asians are on a bus or how dirty a neighborhood or commercial district looks..

 

Source: http://web.mta.info/mta/compliance/pdf/supplemental-info.pdf

 

 

No one cares about that and that wasn't my point.  I was talking about projected ridership and where that projected ridership will be coming from, period.

[realizm]

I'm done nothing much else needs to be said. Not going to waste proxy server space nor my time with this guy. I proved all my points and exposed the loaded statements, lies on his own posts and erroneous statements as well as many others. Page 9, 10, and 11 for the record. Anyone else wants to take a crack at his erroneous and racially charged points?

[B35 via Church]

I don't know what you don't get. It's pretty simple.  We were talking about service levels on the B4 and ridership growth.  I then stated that the demographics in Southwest Brooklyn and even in Southeast Brooklyn have changed to the point that it will effect ridership growth.  Why is thta such a hard concept to get?  And yes, it is most certainly relevant because when those areas had Americanized whites, the bus wasn't as used as it is now.  Now you have more Asians using it and ethnic whites, and yes I would say that usage from Asians on the line is high compared to years ago when there were no Asians using it.  When you go from zero to several then yes that's an increase that is noticeable in my mind, and that number is likely to continue to increase.  

The Asian & Central American ridership on the route was a specific point you conveniently brought up, for only reasons known by you... You making up your own reasons for your point to be relevant, doesn't make it relevant.....

 

I'm past the disagreement we had as to how much Asians ride the route, because that's a secondary issue....

(which stemmed from the primary issue in all this)

 

I'm still going to regurgitate yet & again, the primary issue I have with your original reply to my post..... This is about you continuing to conveniently ignore that demographics was NOT a part of my B4 assessment where YOU said I was off.... You tried to brush it off by saying I don't need to bring up demographics.... You have yet to *correct* just where I was so off at, "to say the least"..... Bringing up increasing ridership of a different demographic did no such thing.... You ran with an baseless assumption that I was only referring to the White ridership on the route in my assessment.... You were the one that said in a later post that I was right, Whites are still the main demographic on the route.... When I never said or implicated that, for you to make such a statement.....

 

Fact of the matter is, you read into something that wasn't there & are trying your damnedest to make it relevant.....

 

What you SHOULD be saying to be politically correct about it, which is what Brooklyn Bus, B35 Via Church and myself are saying in regards this so called 'side topic' you are bringing up is that ridership patterns are affected by population shifts, for that matter we don't wish to get into ethnicity issues. Its a sensitive topic that we should not be getting into in a straight transportation discussion.

To be perfectly honest, in this particular thread, my main concern wasn't him needing to be politically correct.....

He made a declaration that I was wrong in my assessment, yet offered no corrective statement whatsoever....

 

Who does that... I mean, that's the ONE thing folks in this online transit community is quick to do - point out where an incorrect statement was made & go about correcting it (especially in the subway section... lol)....

[realizm]

Who does that... I mean, that's the ONE thing folks in this online transit community is quick to do - point out where an incorrect statement was made & go about correcting it (especially in the subway section... lol)....

 

I give my heartfelt greetings to you all from the railfanning community crazies in the NYCTF subway subforums, lol =D

 

I like trains..

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The Asian & Central American ridership on the route was a specific point you conveniently brought up, for only reasons known by you... You making up your own reasons for your point to be relevant, doesn't make it relevant.....

 

I'm past the disagreement we had as to how much Asians ride the route, because that's a secondary issue....

(which stemmed from the primary issue in all this)

 

I'm still going to regurgitate yet & again, the primary issue I have with your original reply to my post..... This is about you continuing to conveniently ignore that demographics was NOT a part of my B4 assessment where YOU said I was off.... You tried to brush it off by saying I don't need to bring up demographics.... You have yet to *correct* just where I was so off at, "to say the least"..... Bringing up increasing ridership of a different demographic did no such thing.... You ran with an baseless assumption that I was only referring to the White ridership on the route in my assessment.... You were the one that said in a later post that I was right, Whites are still the main demographic on the route.... When I never said or implicated that, for you to make such a statement.....

 

Fact of the matter is, you read into something that wasn't there & are trying your damnedest to make it relevant.....

 

To be perfectly honest, in this particular thread, my main concern wasn't him needing to be politically correct.....

He made a declaration that I was wrong in my assessment, yet offered no corrective statement whatsoever....

 

Who does that... I mean, that's the ONE thing folks in this online transit community is quick to do - point out where an incorrect statement was made & go about correcting it (especially in the subway section... lol)....

I thought it was clear that we disagreed about how much ridership the B4 has in certain areas and why and that we agreed to disagree?