The MTA is Incompetently Operating the B44 and B36 Buses

[BrooklynBus]

http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2014/05/mta-incompetently-operating-b44-b36-buses-part-1-2/

[B35 via Church]

The MTA has had nearly six months to get their act together regarding the B44. They will never produce statistics like the ones you are about to see. Theirs will only show how great SBS is, and will omit all the negatives. The anticipated demand in southern Sheepshead Bay to take the B44 SBS to the Flatbush Avenue station never materialized. I estimate that Sheepshead Bay station riders from south of Avenue X outnumber those going to the Flatbush Avenue / Brooklyn College station by about 12 to one. Rather than ever admit they screwed up, the MTA will just use the lack of demand as an excuse why they cannot afford to provide any additional service elsewhere where demand actually exists.

The only folks that really ride to the 2/5 from Sheepshead Bay are the high school students & those that live in the projects.... Everyone else for the most part is gunning for Sheepshead on the Brighton, so I would agree with that general assessment.... It may be even higher than 12-to-1, come to think of it - especially when you consider off peak ridership on the CI bound 36 vs the NB 44 from sheepshead to the junction.......

 

And showing stats that put SBS in a positive light should be of a surprise to no one.... MTA admitting a mistake, good luck with that one.... Monopolists rarely if ever, admit mistakes......

 

 

Here is what I found:

 

B36 Reliability

• The longest wait for a B36 bus was 21 minutes, northbound, between 9:03 and 9:24 a.m. and 19 minutes southbound between 9:03 and 9:22 a.m. The scheduled headway is either every five or six minutes.
• The number of buses arriving within zero and two minutes was 12 out of 41 buses, which means that 29 percent of the buses were bunched. At 8:36 a.m., four in-service B36 buses turned the corner from Avenue Z into Nostrand Avenue. If you consider buses fewer than three minutes apart as bunched, the statistic rose to a staggering 34 percent. This confirms what Sheepshead Bites readers have been saying all along, that reliability on the B36 is a major issue.
• Car services and green taxis were cruising bus stops soliciting for B36 passengers to Sheepshead Bay although they already had passengers aboard. One passenger accepted a ride at Avenue Z.

Your first finding I'd say is a typical B36 trip; it's like buses vanish into thin air with the waits for them things - esp at Stillwell/Surf, EB (over there by the popeyes); never liked that stop anyway for some reason..... Then again what I notice with buses heading in the opposite direction of when I'd take 36's, correlates to your second finding..... I've come to the conclusion that b/o's are told (in so many words) to crawl the route at all costs - and it's a wonder why the B74 gets the loads that it consistently gets !

[BrooklynBus]

I think the route would run better if they ran less through service and more shuttles at each end of the route because that's where most of the demand seems to be. I also once thought the route should be extended to Kings Plaza, but that would never fly today.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't know why you wrote this story, as if your findings were so shocking.  The B36 has been bunching like that going all the way back to when I lived in Sheepshead Bay some 15 years ago.  Not exactly surprising.  As for the B44SBS, you've made it clear what you think should happen to the Southbound portion, and I say it's time to stop beating a dead horse.  The portion of Sheepshead Bay that you refer to has suffered tremendously over the last few years due to the numerous transportation cuts in the area.  You had very limited B4 service until the recent restoration, poor B36 service, and limited B44 service, and on top of that, they've severely slashed BM3 express bus service, so how do you think people that want to use transportation there should get around?  Do you not see how many empty condos and other apartments have been sitting vacant along Emmons Avenue for years?  That area is transportation starved, and for once the is trying to do something right here, but instead, you argue that yet again Sheepshead Bay should get less service, and that service should be redirected to Manhattan Beach, mainly KCC students.  Why can't KCC pay for its own buses?  That seems like a better solution here.  The vibrancy that once existed in Sheepshead Bay has been severely hampered by the lack of transportation there. If anything, there is more congestion with everyone parading down Emmons trying to show off in their expensive vehicles.  Meanwhile, those who do need transportation or are willing to use it are pretty much leaving due to the limited options, and quite frankly I don't blame them.  That was one place that I crossed off of my list when I considered moving back to Brooklyn a few years ago.

[BrooklynBus]

Read Part 2 next week. The SBS is carrying only 2 passengers per bus south of Avenue X during the rush hours, probably even less at other times. Do you think the MTA can afford to maintain that level of service for that number of passengers?

 

There is a reason why people try not to use the bus. They run miserably and the buses don't take them where they need to go without indirect routing and numerous changes of buses, each one requiring another wait. And three busses costs two fares without an unlimited MetroCard which isn't feasible for everyone. Nothing will change until these problems are addressed. A few new shuttle routes will do nothing in the grand scheme of things.

 

Yes a few long distance riders benefit from SBS, but that is hardly most riders. Service must match demand.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Read Part 2 next week. The SBS is carrying only 2 passengers per bus south of Avenue X during the rush hours, probably even less at other times. Do you think the MTA can afford to maintain that level of service for that number of passengers?

 

There is a reason why people try not to use the bus. They run miserably and the buses don't take them where they need to go without indirect routing and numerous changes of buses, each one requiring another wait. And three busses costs two fares without an unlimited MetroCard which isn't feasible for everyone. Nothing will change until these problems are addressed. A few new shuttle routes will do nothing in the grand scheme of things.

 

Yes a few long distance riders benefit from SBS, but that is hardly most riders. Service must match demand.

Yeah well what do you expect? Sheepshead Bay suffered through YEARS of poor bus service and massive service cuts. You can't expect people to just suddenly revert back to buses now.  Aside from that, ridership south of Avenue X has never been that great, but there are a few things that can draw riders... The Nursing Home certainly draws folks, as the workers need to get to their jobs there from points North, and you also have the movie theatre there and the new school that recently opened by Shore Parkway and Knapp.

[BrooklynBus]

Other than when shifts are changing, there is no demand for the service that is being provided.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Other than when shifts are changing, there is no demand for the service that is being provided.

Yeah well the made it that way and the neighborhood is dead as a result.  A real shame too because they basically helped to kill the vibrancy of the area.  I'm sure that area is suffering economically too from this.  It seems to be the case when I'm down there.  Not nearly as vibrant as it used to be.

[BrooklynBus]

Still recovering from Hurricane Sandy. And it's a real shame when you realize Emmons Avenue was such a resort, lined with hotels in the late 1800s. Even now it had the potential of being a Fishermans wharf to attract tourists, so the city builds condos and senior homes instead.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Still recovering from Hurricane Sandy. And it's a real shame when you realize Emmons Avenue was such a resort, lined with hotels in the late 1800s. Even now it had the potential of being a Fishermans wharf to attract tourists, so the city builds condos and senior homes instead.

Yeah, well a lot of people sold and moved.  You heard the lady of that co-op that spoke at the town hall meeting. I mean if transportation sucks on weekends, ok fine, but people need to get to work, and the options down there just aren't conducive enough to make folks want to live there.  All of those condos there and they have very limited express bus service for starters.  That area should be an express bus market... Homes right near the water usually fetch good prices which means you would have people that could afford the higher fare because the schlepp from the local bus to the subway just isn't worth it.  

[BrooklynBus]

B4 service needs to be beefed up and B36 needs more reliability. They also need a bus on Knapp Street and easier connections to neighboring communities like Canarsie. And no one shoud be penalized for requiring a third bus to make a trip. In short a lot can be done, but rove ding bus service that carries two passengers per bus is not the answer. There is a reason car services are thriving there. The MTA is not meeting the demand.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

B4 service needs to be beefed up and B36 needs more reliability. They also need a bus on Knapp Street and easier connections to neighboring communities like Canarsie. And no one shoud be penalized for requiring a third bus to make a trip. In short a lot can be done, but rove ding bus service that carries two passengers per bus is not the answer. There is a reason car services are thriving there. The MTA is not meeting the demand.

Why would Sheepshead Bay (a majority white neighborhood) need connections to Canarsie (a majority black neighborhood)?!???  

[Around the Horn]

Why would Sheepshead Bay (a majority white neighborhood) need connections to Canarsie (a majority black neighborhood)?!???  

Here we go again with the racism...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Here we go again with the racism...

Why don't you stay out of the conversation if you have nothing positive to add.  I'm asking the question because I'm not seeing any connection between the two neighborhoods, and demographics plays a role in where people travel and what bus routes are created.  Nothing to do with racism.  Grow up and stop being so ignorant.

[Around the Horn]

Why don't you stay out of the conversation if you have nothing positive to add.  I'm asking the question because I'm not seeing any connection between the two neighborhoods, and demographics plays a role in where people travel and what bus routes are created.  Nothing to do with racism.  Grow up and stop being so ignorant.

Okay I see.I apologize. To answer your question:BrooklynBus stated that connections were needed to nearby neighborhoods ,not just Canarsie which he used as an example....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Okay I see.I apologize. To answer your question:BrooklynBus stated that connections were needed to nearby neighborhoods ,not just Canarsie which he used as an example....

Yes, but Canarsie is a poor example.  If anything, people in that area are traveling to points west of the neighborhood (i.e. Brighton Beach, Gravesend, Bensonhurst, Bath Beach, Bay Ridge, etc.).   These are areas with similar demographics, hence why folks travel to and from those areas.  South Brooklyn in particular has seen a large increase in the Eastern European and Asian populations, so it would make sense to make an anology with those areas rather than Canarsie.  

[Around the Horn]

Yes, but Canarsie is a poor example.  If anything, people in that area are traveling to points west of the neighborhood (i.e. Brighton Beach, Gravesend, Bensonhurst, Bath Beach, Bay Ridge, etc.).   These are areas with similar demographics, hence why folks travel to and from those areas.  South Brooklyn in particular has seen a large increase in the Eastern European and Asian populations, so it would make sense to make an anology with those areas rather than Canarsie.  

So your saying more service might be in order?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So your saying more service might be in order?

It should be... It would also be good to have a limited stop B4 too.  Bensonhurst for example has a growing Chinese population as the Italians move away to Staten Island, Dyker Heights, Bay Ridge or Long Island, NJ or Westchester, and Sheepshead Bay already has a pretty decent size Chinese population.  The population along Emmons Avenue is a mix, but these days it's primary Eastern European or Jewish in some fashion, with a few other white ethnic groups thrown in (Italians, Irish, etc.)

[Around the Horn]

It should be... It would also be good to have a limited stop B4 too.  Bensonhurst for example has a growing Chinese population as the Italians move away to Staten Island, Dyker Heights, Bay Ridge or Long Island, NJ or Westchester, and Sheepshead Bay already has a pretty decent size Chinese population.  The population along Emmons Avenue is a mix, but these days it's primary Eastern European or Jewish in some fashion, with a few other white ethnic groups thrown in (Italians, Irish, etc.)

I would suggest adding "shuttles" like on the B1 and run them between Sheepshead Bay and some where on the B4 before 4 Av (77/78 Sts doesn't need more service-right now it is served adequately except for service in the afternoon from Narrows/77th where FHHS student must wait over 20 minutes for a bus

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I would suggest adding "shuttles" like on the B1 and run them between Sheepshead Bay and some where on the B4 before 4 Av (77/78 Sts doesn't need more service-right now it is served adequately except for service in the afternoon from Narrows/77th where FHHS student must wait over 20 minutes for a bus

I would disagree... While 77th/78th and Narrows and other parts of Bay Ridge west of 3rd Avenue are generally upper middle class parts of Bay Ridge, there are some people that use the bus from that first stop to go to points east in South Brooklyn.  Headways should be decreased to every 15 minutes at the minimum.  Another thing that I noticed at least before Bus Time on the B4 was that buses would start at random segments of the route and skip over entire sections.  I got one B4 at Sheepshead Bay Rd by the train station that bypassed all of the eastern portion of Sheepshead Bay, which meant folks had to wait 40 minutes for a bus.  Same thing has happened over by 77th and Narrows at that first stop.  I usually use the B4 to get to and from the X27 when I'm too lazy to walk so I get a good idea of the ridership on the line.

[Around the Horn]

I would disagree... While 77th/78th and Narrows and other parts of Bay Ridge west of 3rd Avenue are generally upper middle class parts of Bay Ridge, there are some people that use the bus from that first stop to go to points east in South Brooklyn.  Headways should be decreased to every 15 minutes at the minimum.  Another thing that I noticed at least before Bus Time on the B4 was that buses would start at random segments of the route and skip over entire sections.  I got one B4 at Sheepshead Bay Rd by the train station that bypassed all of the eastern portion of Sheepshead Bay, which meant folks had to wait 40 minutes for a bus.  Same thing has happened over by 77th and Narrows at that first stop.

Agreed

[BrooklynBus]

Yes, but Canarsie is a poor example.  If anything, people in that area are traveling to points west of the neighborhood (i.e. Brighton Beach, Gravesend, Bensonhurst, Bath Beach, Bay Ridge, etc.).   These are areas with similar demographics, hence why folks travel to and from those areas.  South Brooklyn in particular has seen a large increase in the Eastern European and Asian populations, so it would make sense to make an anology with those areas rather than Canarsie.  

 

Canarsie is not a poor example. There are plenty of Blacks in Sheepshead Bay especially in the Sheepshead-Nostrand Houses. Unless you are going to Flatlands Avenue, Canarsie is a three bus trip requiring two fares using the B82. You can go out of your way to reach the B103 and access a little more of the area, but it certainly is not a convenient trip.

 

The B4 should be 15 minutes all day, because at 20 minutes, people will walk longer to other routes to avoid it. Also, if the B2 and B31 were extended to Western Brooklyn instead of just being shuttles to the subway, they would get more than 3 or 4 people on the bus outside of rush hours and permit many more places to be accessed on two buses in southwest Brooklyn.

[Q43LTD]

I don't think the has incompetently operated the B36 and 44. It's more than half the routes in this city...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Canarsie is not a poor example. There are plenty of Blacks in Sheepshead Bay especially in the Sheepshead-Nostrand Houses. Unless you are going to Flatlands Avenue, Canarsie is a three bus trip requiring two fares using the B82. You can go out of your way to reach the B103 and access a little more of the area, but it certainly is not a convenient trip.

LOL... So you're saying that just because there are blacks living in those housing projects that they automatically have to be traveling to Canarsie?  What gave you that impression?  I still don't see any connection and I've never seen any type of travel patterns to suggest this and I lived in Sheepshead Bay for well over 15 years and still visit on a regular basis.  I would like to hear from you how you came to that conclusion.

[BrooklynBus]

A statement was made that since there are few Blacks living in Sheeadshead Bay and since Canarsie is primarily Black, there is no reason to connect the two neighborhoods. I was pointing out that first,Sheepshead Bay is not all white, and if it's true that Blacks have more of a reason to travel to Canarsie, it is a difficult trip. That's not to say non-whites have no reason to travel to Canarsie. I made that trip by car for six months in 2011and I am white as you know. I drove because it took at least half the time as by bus. Car 20 to 30 minutes. Bus probably at least 35 minutes not including waits for two buses of about 20 to 40 minutes.