NYC Blizzard Underground-only service

[itmaybeokay]

We got 20+ inches in Riverdale just like most of the city did and I still think it wasn't a big deal.  What in the hell happened to people in this damn city that they become so soft?  I mean we had blizzards in the 90s that shut the city down.  That was a big deal.  Ever since Sandy, anytime there's a storm, people start panicking and making a big deal over it.  Okay so it was 26" f-ing inches.  We live in the Northeast for Christ's sake.  It's supposed to snow here, and that's what we have Sanitation for to clean up the snow and keep the city moving, which is what they did (unlike in previous storms under de Blasio).  Cuomo needs to get a grip and stop going bonkers every time we have a storm here.  This isn't about him being so concerned, but rather the city and state trying to cover their @sses from potential law suits.  Nothing more nothing less.  Anyone who can't see that needs to take their blinders off.  I also think that all of these damn transplants moving here is part of the problem.  Real New Yorkers (like myself, born and raised here, not from some dirt town in God knows where) are not phased by such storms.  We've had plenty of them before and will likely have more of them in the future.

 

1) I'm not panicking, I'm not advocating panicking. 

 

2) No, we did not have worse snowstorms than this one in the 90's. I've lived here my whole life too, but so we can address this empirically, here's the data: 

 

 

Unless you think the National Weather Service is lying. 

 

In fact: only twice between 1990 and 2000 did it snow more than 1 foot. You had 20 inches in '96 and 12.8 in '94. If those storms were a big deal, by the transitive property, this storm was at least as big a deal. Here's the data on largest snowstorms over 1 foot in NYC, 1869 to present: http://www.weather.gov/media/okx/Climate/CentralPark/BiggestSnowstorms.pdf

 

3) The outdoor transit shutdown was largely motivated by the Dec 26 2010 storm when passengers were stranded on an A train for 11 hours. That storm was 20". I think, given the circumstances, the transit response was well warranted. The road travel ban, ehhh. Probably overkill but on the other hand - I have footage of cop cars getting stuck in the snow for 20 minutes at NOON on saturday, so maybe there was something to it. 

 

4) I agree, it's a little ridiculous, cuomo in his windbreaker on stage with that state trooper declaring states of emergency and shutting down this and that and saying stay home or we'll arrest you. I think it's less about lawsuits and more about avoiding the public perception of doing nothing. I'm not taking a position on the general handling of the storm, the thing, and the only thing I was applauding was that they left the underground trains running. That's it. The only reason this common-sense move even merits discussion is because last year there was the bonehead decision to unplug the whole thing. All I was saying is I'm glad they didn't do that this time. 

 

 

all that said, I don't understand your point, if you have one. 

 

You say the storms in the 1990's were a big deal but this one wasn't. 

 

The scientific data firmly indicates that this storm was significantly more severe than the storms in the 1990's.

 

So if those storms were a big deal - by any semblance of logic - this storm was a big deal. 

 

If those storms shut down the city - again, by the transitive property - this storm was reasonably justified in shutting down the city. 

It's simple logic, mate. 

 

 

(Perhaps I'm a fool for expecting logic out of a man with a donald trump endorsement in his signature, although given your rampant ethnocentric xenophobia, I do to a certain extent understand) 

 

 

IN SUMMATION:

• We've proven that this storm was more severe than last year. 
• We've proven that this storm was more severe than the storms of the 1990s. 
• I'm not saying everyone needed to panic, and instead was applauding the moderately applied TRANSIT response to the storm. 
• I'm not taking a position on whether the road travel ban was warranted or not. 
• and finally, the only thing I was claiming Cuomo did right was to NOT shut down the underground portion of the subway as he did last year. 

QED

[Lance]

I wouldn't even bother. You can throw facts around all you want. He's not listening.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 

1) I'm not panicking, I'm not advocating panicking. 

 

2) No, we did not have worse snowstorms than this one in the 90's. I've lived here my whole life too, but so we can address this empirically, here's the data: 

 

 

Unless you think the National Weather Service is lying. 

 

In fact: only twice between 1990 and 2000 did it snow more than 1 foot. You had 20 inches in '96 and 12.8 in '94. If those storms were a big deal, by the transitive property, this storm was at least as big a deal. Here's the data on largest snowstorms over 1 foot in NYC, 1869 to present: http://www.weather.gov/media/okx/Climate/CentralPark/BiggestSnowstorms.pdf

 

3) The outdoor transit shutdown was largely motivated by the Dec 26 2010 storm when passengers were stranded on an A train for 11 hours. That storm was 20". I think, given the circumstances, the transit response was well warranted. The road travel ban, ehhh. Probably overkill but on the other hand - I have footage of cop cars getting stuck in the snow for 20 minutes at NOON on saturday, so maybe there was something to it. 

 

4) I agree, it's a little ridiculous, cuomo in his windbreaker on stage with that state trooper declaring states of emergency and shutting down this and that and saying stay home or we'll arrest you. I think it's less about lawsuits and more about avoiding the public perception of doing nothing. I'm not taking a position on the general handling of the storm, the thing, and the only thing I was applauding was that they left the underground trains running. That's it. The only reason this common-sense move even merits discussion is because last year there was the bonehead decision to unplug the whole thing. All I was saying is I'm glad they didn't do that this time. 

 

 

all that said, I don't understand your point, if you have one. 

 

You say the storms in the 1990's were a big deal but this one wasn't. 

 

The scientific data firmly indicates that this storm was significantly more severe than the storms in the 1990's.

 

So if those storms were a big deal - by any semblance of logic - this storm was a big deal. 

 

If those storms shut down the city - again, by the transitive property - this storm was reasonably justified in shutting down the city. 

It's simple logic, mate. 

 

 

(Perhaps I'm a fool for expecting logic out of a man with a donald trump endorsement in his signature, although given your rampant ethnocentric xenophobia, I do to a certain extent understand) 

 

 

IN SUMMATION:

• We've proven that this storm was more severe than last year. 
• We've proven that this storm was more severe than the storms of the 1990s. 
• I'm not saying everyone needed to panic, and instead was applauding the moderately applied TRANSIT response to the storm. 
• I'm not taking a position on whether the road travel ban was warranted or not. 
• and finally, the only thing I was claiming Cuomo did right was to NOT shut down the underground portion of the subway as he did last year. 

QED

 

That's interesting. I distinctly recall having school closed for some time when Giuliani was in office due to blizzards.  Since you're so good at stats, how many inches did we get (in Central Park of course where no one lives  ) during those times? 

 

I wouldn't even bother. You can throw facts around all you want. He's not listening.

Yes, looking at the facts (in Central Park where no one lives), this storm on paper was worse.  In fact it was HORRIBLE.  However, the fact that I and many others actually ventured out in such defying conditions and was in the storm (and not in Central Park or JFK) should count for something despite those wonderful facts put up by itmaybeokay.  

[itmaybeokay]

Yeah. I don't know why I bother.
 

That's interesting. I distinctly recall having school closed for some time when Giuliani was in office due to blizzards.  Since you're so good at stats, how many inches did we get (in Central Park of course where no one lives  ) during those times? 
 
Yes, looking at the facts (in Central Park where no one lives), this storm on paper was worse.  In fact it was HORRIBLE.  However, the fact that I and many others actually ventured out in such defying conditions and was in the storm (and not in Central Park or JFK) should count for something despite those wonderful facts put up by itmaybeokay.

Central Park is chosen as a snowfall measurement location as there's actually a space to measure snowfall. It's fair to say it's representative of the snowfall in manhattan in general. But hey, great point. Not the only place they measure snow.

...KINGS COUNTY...
WILLIAMSBURG 29.0 930 PM 1/23 PUBLIC
BROOKLYN 27.0 1200 AM 1/24 TRAINED SPOTTER
FORT GREENE 24.5 1200 AM 1/24 TRAINED SPOTTER

...NEW YORK COUNTY...
HAMILTON HOUSES 27.0 930 PM 1/23 TRAINED SPOTTER
CENTRAL PARK 26.8 1207 AM 1/24 PARK CONSERVANCY

...QUEENS COUNTY...
NYC/JFK AIRPORT 30.5 100 AM 1/24 FAA OBSERVER
NYC/LA GUARDIA 27.9 100 AM 1/24 FAA OBSERVER
OAKLAND GARDENS 27.4 1035 PM 1/23 PUBLIC
FRESH MEADOWS 26.5 1000 PM 1/23 PUBLIC
LITTLE NECK 24.0 1020 PM 1/23 TRAINED SPOTTER

So, those totals from around the city are generally higher than the central park observation, with a couple of lower spots, and generally comparable.

 

Data from 1996 is harder to find on such a granular level. But, in retort of your posit that the anecdotal accounts of those who ventured into the storm be the true measure of it, lets start there and see if we can gain a scientific measure in the same vein. How about: How many people who ventured out into the storm died?

 

NY only, fatalities directly attributed to snowstorm:

2016: 10 (data)

1996: 3 (data)

[Wallyhorse]

 

3) The outdoor transit shutdown was largely motivated by the Dec 26 2010 storm when passengers were stranded on an A train for 11 hours. That storm was 20". I think, given the circumstances, the transit response was well warranted. The road travel ban, ehhh. Probably overkill but on the other hand - I have footage of cop cars getting stuck in the snow for 20 minutes at NOON on saturday, so maybe there was something to it. 

 

4) I agree, it's a little ridiculous, cuomo in his windbreaker on stage with that state trooper declaring states of emergency and shutting down this and that and saying stay home or we'll arrest you. I think it's less about lawsuits and more about avoiding the public perception of doing nothing. I'm not taking a position on the general handling of the storm, the thing, and the only thing I was applauding was that they left the underground trains running. That's it. The only reason this common-sense move even merits discussion is because last year there was the bonehead decision to unplug the whole thing. All I was saying is I'm glad they didn't do that this time. 

The Dec. 26-27, 2010 storm was as noted many times a "perfect storm" (no pun intended) of circumstances that in large part was caused by when the snowfall forecasts changed.  That storm at the time the would have even under normal circumstances made their weekend plans was for "maybe 1-3 inches" and mostly rain east of NYC.  That only changed to 6-10" Christmas Eve Night and by then as I remember many people who normally might have been monitoring it more closely were dealing with family and/or religious commitments they could not get out of that if they tried to would have angered many family members and/or religious types, especially those older who were much more rigid (a good number of whom have since passed away).  The lack of available media for many did not help matters as on Christmas Day, the storm exploded to 10-15" inches and then more (in fact, Glenn "Hurricane" Schwartz of WCAU-TV (Channel 10) in Philly came in on his own and did special webcasts on the storm that day) as many local stations did not have newscasts until 11:00 PM Christmas Night (something that subsequently was changed the next year in many cases).

 

By the time the storm hit that Sunday night, the was trying to play catchup, but there were some things that should have been done that were not, especially shutting down the open cuts once the snow began to fall knowing what was coming, as well as once there were reports of problems on the line as I would have done shutting down that line quickly.  Of course, as we know after that storm a new plan was implemented to avoid a repeat of that.

 

As for lawsuits, unfortunately, in an era of ambulance chasers and those looking to intentionally get hurt because they know they can get paid in a lawsuit, the and others have to be careful.  During this last storm where I am for instance, the streets where I am were cleaned off constantly in a way they NEVER were in 2010 and even 2014.  That only changed with last year as the threat of lawsuits has become a lot bigger than in years past.   That said, I do think for instance the Manhattan Bridge crossings should be kept open since that is covered and it's VERY difficult for snow to get on it (though with the winds what they were in this storm, it was quite understandable why they didn't want passengers on it), but otherwise, this as noted was handled just about the way I would have done it with a couple of other exceptions. 

[QM1to6Ave]

Yes it was a lot of snow, but it still wasn't that big of a deal. For what it's worth, I cancelled my tutoring sessions Saturday and slept in the whole day. It wasn't until Saturday night that I finally decided to venture outside because I was craving some Japanese food from one my spots, and it was still snowing then. I just put on one of my Canadian parkas and all was well. The snow on my balcony made it obvious that we got a decent amount but I could tell that it was quite powdery without even touching it, making it much easier to get around in. I went out around 20:00 or so and walked around my area of Riverdale and all of the streets were perfectly passable even though there was a car ban. Everything was closed except for one store, which was completely unnecessary. For what it's worth, I live in one of the most highest elevations in the city, so when other areas of the city get next to nothing, we usually get a decent amount of snow, and I was not at all shocked or intimidated by the conditions, nor were other folks who were out and about walking around. This coming from a guy that lived up by Montréal for several years. This was nothing to go bonkers over.

It may not have been a big deal in Riverdale, but here in Queens was a disaster zone. Impassable roads through Tuesday evening,enormous snow banks all over, and now mounds of uncollected garbage. DSNY really screwed Queens this time.