NYC Blizzard Underground-only service

[Tokkemon]

Cuomo's office just released this very interesting map:

 

https://www.ny.gov/sites/ny.gov/files/atoms/files/UndergroundMapwServiceGuide.pdf

 

All above-ground subway service has been suspended.

[Union Tpke]

If you look at the other map, and switch between tabs, there are a few differences

http://alert.mta.info/sites/default/files/Underground%20Map%20with%20Service%20Guide.pdf

[Wallyhorse]

This is pretty much the way I would have handled service during the 2010 blizzard and also last year.  The only possible exception I would have made would have been this, and these would have been subject to quick closure at the first sign of trouble with that made clear:

would have run its full route because the topography of Manhattan has the line level where it goes from underground to elevated.  As long as the elevated stations are safe to walk on they would remain open, but would be subject as noted to a swift closure if necessary.

[CDTA]

How does the turn around at 135th Street? There's no connection between the two platforms if I recall correctly, so it'd have to go past the station, up the middle track, past the station in the opposite direction, then reverse onto the uptown platform. It just seems like a lot of work.

 

Also, slightly unrelated question. Does the travel ban only effect cars, and not pedestrians? I was told the travel ban started at 2:30, and while I know the subway runs regardless, there were Metro-North trains until about 4.

[P3F]

Why couldn't the have ended at Dyckman? It's only one stop above ground, and would have provided service to 181 Street and 191 Street as well.

[azspeedbullet]

How does the turn around at 135th Street? There's no connection between the two platforms if I recall correctly, so it'd have to go past the station, up the middle track, past the station in the opposite direction, then reverse onto the uptown platform. It just seems like a lot of work.

 

 

since its only making 3 stops, i am guessing they are only using 1 track only. kinda like a shuttle service.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Also, slightly unrelated question. Does the travel ban only effect cars, and not pedestrians? I was told the travel ban started at 2:30, and while I know the subway runs regardless, there were Metro-North trains until about 4.

I see people in front of my building occasionally, and news 12 just showed a few people walking to/from work in this storm, so I would assume walking won't be a problem at all.

[Union Tpke]

How does the turn around at 135th Street? There's no connection between the two platforms if I recall correctly, so it'd have to go past the station, up the middle track, past the station in the opposite direction, then reverse onto the uptown platform. It just seems like a lot of work.

 

Also, slightly unrelated question. Does the travel ban only effect cars, and not pedestrians? I was told the travel ban started at 2:30, and while I know the subway runs regardless, there were Metro-North trains until about 4.

 

IT IS RUNNING TO UTICA! I was at Times Square when the countdown clocks said that it was running to Utica. The travel ban is only for cars. Bike riding and walking is allowed.

[FamousNYLover]

IT IS RUNNING TO UTICA! I was at Times Square when the countdown clocks said that it was running to Utica. The travel ban is only for cars. Bike riding and walking is allowed.

According to MTA Alert, Real Time MTA Subway/Bus Time App is not available, so properly countdown clock is not working either.

[Union Tpke]

According to MTA Alert, Real Time MTA Subway/Bus Time App is not available, so properly countdown clock is not working either.

 

it was working when I was in the system at around 6 PM.

[CDTA]

since its only making 3 stops, i am guessing they are only using 1 track only. kinda like a shuttle service.

There's no crossunder at 135th though.

 

 

I see people in front of my building occasionally, and news 12 just showed a few people walking to/from work in this storm, so I would assume walking won't be a problem at all.

 

 

IT IS RUNNING TO UTICA! I was at Times Square when the countdown clocks said that it was running to Utica. The travel ban is only for cars. Bike riding and walking is allowed.

Thank you both.

[Wallyhorse]

Why couldn't the have ended at Dyckman? It's only one stop above ground, and would have provided service to 181 Street and 191 Street as well.

Might have been a potential issue with signals.  Plus, 181 and 191 are two of the deepest stations in the system if I'm not mistaken.  

 

A little surprised at not keeping it to Dyckman (which has been used as a terminal before) but I think they were concerned about what happened if a train stalled there. 

 

There's no crossunder at 135th though.

They probably have a special OOS transfer in place for that if they did that for the .

[paulrivera]

it was working when I was in the system at around 6 PM.

So now we know for sure they intentionally shut off the live feeds to the apps. Last time stamps I'm getting are from about 4:15, just after the above ground shutdown started.

[4P3607]

Interesting how the is still running to Lenox Term as that's an outside station. 

I do wonder about how they manage turning the at 135. As previously suggested it is probably a Shuttle train that single tracks (Correct me if I'm wrong), but if so then how do people transfer from that Shuttle to the other side? Customers would have no choice but to either take a downtown or uptown and cross over at 110 Street or Grand Concourse. 

Hopefully someone who's seen the Shuttle in action can give some insight into this. 

[Union Tpke]

Select Language▼

MTA Service Status

 

Service Change  Posted: 01/24/2016  7:51AM 

 

Following earlier inclement weather conditions, modified Sunday bus service has resumed.

 

B14, B15, B26, B38, B41, B52, B54, B57, B62,B100 and B103.

 

Allow additional travel time.

[timmylittle]

Interesting how the is still running to Lenox Term as that's an outside station. 

 

I do wonder about how they manage turning the at 135. As previously suggested it is probably a Shuttle train that single tracks (Correct me if I'm wrong), but if so then how do people transfer from that Shuttle to the other side? Customers would have no choice but to either take a downtown or uptown and cross over at 110 Street or Grand Concourse. 

 

Hopefully someone who's seen the Shuttle in action can give some insight into this. 

 

Despite the map stating that the only ran from 148 St to 135 St, it actually ran to Utica. As for 148 St, it's covered by a building and there's very little outside track, so I guess the MTA thought it was safe to run trains there.

[GreatOne2k]

Where did the late night 3 terminate? Times Sq 42 St, or 34 St Penn Station (if running local s/b)?

[Lance]

According to the service alerts that were updated several times over the course of the night, trains ran to Utica Av.

[kaciezr]

If the ran to Utica then this is a moot point.  But keep in mind the ran as a shuttle from 148th to 135th late nights for decades.  It wasn't until the 90s that they replaced it with a shuttle bus.  If it ran as a shuttle yesterday, it would be far from the first time.

 

(And yeah, 148th is at grade and somewhat exposed to the elements, but it's not exactly "outdoors".)

[itmaybeokay]

lol... I never had high standards of Long Island anyway...    Metro-North riders are far classier by a mile, especially the semi-express and express trains.  Basically no riff-raff at all.

 

 

IT IS RUNNING TO UTICA! I was at Times Square when the countdown clocks said that it was running to Utica. The travel ban is only for cars. Bike riding and walking is allowed.

 

 

According to MTA Alert, Real Time MTA Subway/Bus Time App is not available, so properly countdown clock is not working either.

 

I think the reason WHY subway time was taken offline lends a clue to what's happening here. ATS has the train terminating in one place, but meanwhile, the train might not be stopping for several stations after it's "terminal" before it actually turns around. Many stations were closed even though the tracks were passable for trains simply because the platforms were not passable for people. Subway time probably would have showed trains approaching stations were they would not stop. 

 

This caused controversy last year during the fake-blizzard shutdown becuase people saw the trains were running on subway time even though the system was "shutdown". As we all know, the system was not actually shut down, it was just closed to non-mta riders. I'm glad cuomo learned from that mess and handled things sensibly during this much worse storm. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I think the reason WHY subway time was taken offline lends a clue to what's happening here. ATS has the train terminating in one place, but meanwhile, the train might not be stopping for several stations after it's "terminal" before it actually turns around. Many stations were closed even though the tracks were passable for trains simply because the platforms were not passable for people. Subway time probably would have showed trains approaching stations were they would not stop. 

 

This caused controversy last year during the fake-blizzard shutdown becuase people saw the trains were running on subway time even though the system was "shutdown". As we all know, the system was not actually shut down, it was just closed to non-mta riders. I'm glad cuomo learned from that mess and handled things sensibly during this much worse storm. 

This "much worse storm" was debatable... 

[Wallyhorse]

This "much worse storm" was debatable... 

Um, not only was it much worse, it was not forecast to be anywhere near that bad.

 

As late as Friday night, NYC was only expecting 5-8" and that only really started to go up very late Friday.  Even as Philly was forecast for 17-23" (Philly got 22.8" that was fourth most ever in one storm there), NYC was still forecast for 6-10 inches.  It wasn't until Saturday morning that NYC got the big increase to 18-24" let alone the 26.8" that NYC did finally wind up with.

 

The only things I would do differently in the next storm are these:

 

Keep the Manhattan Bridge open to passengers.  That is covered on top as I understand it and is very difficult to have snow accumulate on, even coming in on the sides.

 

As long as 125th and Dyckman Street on the can be kept to where trains can stop safely to discharge and take in passengers, those should be kept open (if there are any safety issues, those would be quickly closed off to passengers even if trains still went through there).  

 

As said before otherwise, this was done almost exactly the way I would have done it in 2010 and last year.   The did a remarkable job given how bad this storm got and way worse than originally forecast (the exact opposite of a year ago). 

 

Philly, BTW managed to keep the entire Market-Frankford line running throughout this storm, including ALL of the elevated stations (and Fern Rock, the north terminal on the Broad Street Subway) as I understood.  In the past, after some big storms only the underground portion has been running for a time to my knowledge and this time they kept that open.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Um, not only was it much worse, it was not forecast to be anywhere near that bad.

 

As late as Friday night, NYC was only expecting 5-8" and that only really started to go up very late Friday.  Even as Philly was forecast for 17-23" (Philly got 22.8" that was fourth most ever in one storm there), NYC was still forecast for 6-10 inches.  It wasn't until Saturday morning that NYC got the big increase to 18-24" let alone the 26.8" that NYC did finally wind up with.

 

The only things I would do differently in the next storm are these:

 

Keep the Manhattan Bridge open to passengers.  That is covered on top as I understand it and is very difficult to have snow accumulate on, even coming in on the sides.

 

As long as 125th and Dyckman Street on the can be kept to where trains can stop safely to discharge and take in passengers, those should be kept open (if there are any safety issues, those would be quickly closed off to passengers even if trains still went through there).  

 

As said before otherwise, this was done almost exactly the way I would have done it in 2010 and last year.   The did a remarkable job given how bad this storm got and way worse than originally forecast (the exact opposite of a year ago). 

 

Philly, BTW managed to keep the entire Market-Frankford line running throughout this storm, including ALL of the elevated stations (and Fern Rock, the north terminal on the Broad Street Subway) as I understood.  In the past, after some big storms only the underground portion has been running for a time to my knowledge and this time they kept that open.

Yes it was a lot of snow, but it still wasn't that big of a deal.  For what it's worth, I cancelled my tutoring sessions Saturday and slept in the whole day. It wasn't until Saturday night that I finally decided to venture outside because I was craving some Japanese food from one my spots, and it was still snowing then.  I just put on one of my Canadian parkas and all was well.  The snow on my balcony made it obvious that we got a decent amount but I could tell that it was quite powdery without even touching it, making it much easier to get around in. I went out around 20:00 or so and walked around my area of Riverdale and all of the streets were perfectly passable even though there was a car ban.  Everything was closed except for one store, which was completely unnecessary.  For what it's worth, I live in one of the most highest elevations in the city, so when other areas of the city get next to nothing, we usually get a decent amount of snow, and I was not at all shocked or intimidated by the conditions, nor were other folks who were out and about walking around.  This coming from a guy that lived up by Montréal for several years.  This was nothing to go bonkers over. 

[itmaybeokay]

This "much worse storm" was debatable...

 

What's debatable about a non-event versus the second largest snowfall in the city's history. Also, worth noting that it was the largest snowfall ever recorded at JFK and LaGuardia. 

 

Yes it was a lot of snow, but it still wasn't that big of a deal.  For what it's worth, I cancelled my tutoring sessions Saturday and slept in the whole day. It wasn't until Saturday night that I finally decided to venture outside because I was craving some Japanese food from one my spots, and it was still snowing then.  I just put on one of my Canadian parkas and all was well.  The snow on my balcony made it obvious that we got a decent amount but I could tell that it was quite powdery without even touching it, making it much easier to get around in. I went out around 20:00 or so and walked around my area of Riverdale and all of the streets were perfectly passable even though there was a car ban.  Everything was closed except for one store, which was completely unnecessary.  For what it's worth, I live in one of the most highest elevations in the city, so when other areas of the city get next to nothing, we usually get a decent amount of snow, and I was not at all shocked or intimidated by the conditions, nor were other folks who were out and about walking around.  This coming from a guy that lived up by Montréal for several years.  This was nothing to go bonkers over. 

 

I wasn't saying it was a big deal. (even though, it kind of was. 7 people died)

 

Also, your highest elevation in the city means nothing as, unlike most storms, the snow gradient falloff went from heavier south to lighter north, which is exactly the opposite of how it normally goes. 

 

Again, since my point was apparently completely missed: I was applauding the transit response to this storm as more moderate than last years storm, despite this storm being of higher intensity than last years.

 

For whatever it's worth, meteorologically its very hard to predict snowfall amounts more than 24 hours in advance. 24 hours out, I and several others were predicting 30 inches - before that it was a "could go either way" scenario since the steep northern gradient meant only a 40 mile difference between nothing and inundation. 

 

I don't think there's anything debatable about this storm being worse than last years near-non-event. By every conceivable metric (snowfall, wind, fatalities) it was much worse. 

 

Even though your streets were passable in riverdale at 2000h, as I mentioned this storm had a very steep northern gradient. Here's a photo from a forecast model the day before illustrating what I'm talking about. Over a 20 mile span there's a 20" differential in accumulated snowfall. 

 

 

As such, one hour before you noted the streets being perfectly passable in riverdale, here's what it looked like in Astoria: 

 

 

 

Perhaps we can at least agree that it was worse the further south you went. 

 

The only thing that was better is the temperatures this week have been warmer so much of the snow has already melted.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 

What's debatable about a non-event versus the second largest snowfall in the city's history. Also, worth noting that it was the largest snowfall ever recorded at JFK and LaGuardia. 

 

 

I wasn't saying it was a big deal. (even though, it kind of was. 7 people died)

 

Also, your highest elevation in the city means nothing as, unlike most storms, the snow gradient falloff went from heavier south to lighter north, which is exactly the opposite of how it normally goes. 

 

Again, since my point was apparently completely missed: I was applauding the transit response to this storm as more moderate than last years storm, despite this storm being of higher intensity than last years.

 

For whatever it's worth, meteorologically its very hard to predict snowfall amounts more than 24 hours in advance. 24 hours out, I and several others were predicting 30 inches - before that it was a "could go either way" scenario since the steep northern gradient meant only a 40 mile difference between nothing and inundation. 

 

I don't think there's anything debatable about this storm being worse than last years near-non-event. By every conceivable metric (snowfall, wind, fatalities) it was much worse. 

 

Even though your streets were passable in riverdale at 2000h, as I mentioned this storm had a very steep northern gradient. Here's a photo from a forecast model the day before illustrating what I'm talking about. Over a 20 mile span there's a 20" differential in accumulated snowfall. 

 

 

As such, one hour before you noted the streets being perfectly passable in riverdale, here's what it looked like in Astoria: 

 

 

 

Perhaps we can at least agree that it was worse the further south you went. 

 

The only thing that was better is the temperatures this week have been warmer so much of the snow has already melted.

We got 20+ inches in Riverdale just like most of the city did and I still think it wasn't a big deal.  What in the hell happened to people in this damn city that they become so soft?  I mean we had blizzards in the 90s that shut the city down.  That was a big deal.  Ever since Sandy, anytime there's a storm, people start panicking and making a big deal over it.  Okay so it was 26" f-ing inches.  We live in the Northeast for Christ's sake.  It's supposed to snow here, and that's what we have Sanitation for to clean up the snow and keep the city moving, which is what they did (unlike in previous storms under de Blasio).  Cuomo needs to get a grip and stop going bonkers every time we have a storm here.  This isn't about him being so concerned, but rather the city and state trying to cover their @sses from potential law suits.  Nothing more nothing less.  Anyone who can't see that needs to take their blinders off.  I also think that all of these damn transplants moving here is part of the problem.  Real New Yorkers (like myself, born and raised here, not from some dirt town in God knows where) are not phased by such storms.  We've had plenty of them before and will likely have more of them in the future.