Cutting LIRR conductors by half, other measures could save MTA up to $2.9B a year, report says

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Cutting LIRR conductors by half, other measures could save MTA up to $2.9B a year, report says

Commuters head for an LIRR train at Penn Station. Replacing LIRR conductors with turnstiles is among measures that could save the MTA up to $2.9B a year, a report says. Credit: Bloomberg / Amir Hamja 

By Alfonso A. Castilloalfonso.castillo@newsday.com   @alfonsoreports Updated May 25, 2021 7:10 PM

Replacing LIRR ticket collectors with station turnstiles is among several ways the MTA could save up to $2.9 billion a year, according to a new report.

The report, published Tuesday by fiscal watchdog group the Citizens Budget Commission, or CBC, recommended several measures aimed at boosting productivity among workers, including replacing the existing method of conductors selling and collecting tickets on trains with a proof-of-payment system.

Like in the New York City subway system, Long Island Rail Road passengers would pay their fare before boarding — potentially at turnstiles installed in busy stations — and conductors on trains would perform random spot checks of riders to ensure fares were paid. The CBC noted that such a system is already in place in commuter rail systems throughout the world, including in Europe.

"Proof-of-payment would require significantly fewer conductors, thus yielding significant savings," wrote the CBC, which reasoned that cutting the number of LIRR conductors by half would still "leave sufficient staff to ensure one conductor per train during all shifts."

The recommendations come as the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, the LIRR's parent organization, still wrestles with the financial impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, which has decimated ridership, fares and other revenue. Although $14.5 billion in federal aid, and a $2.9 billion federal loan, will allow the MTA to balance its books through 2024, the agency’s financial future remains in question.

"We appreciate the proposals and the time put in by the CBC to make these recommendations," MTA spokesman Aaron Donovan said. "We welcome the ideas as we look for ways to build on our recent successes in improving safety and reliability of the railroad in tandem with dramatic enhancements to real-time service information."

The report urged other employee productivity improvements, including aligning work rules among LIRR unions with those of sister commuter railroad Metro-North, allowing the LIRR to cut more than 1,000 employees without affecting how much work they accomplished.

"Total hours worked at LIRR would decline by about 2.3 million hours without reducing service," the report said.

Anthony Simon, who leads the LIRR’s largest union, said that changing work rules "sounds easy to those less knowledgeable" about the logistics of running a railroad. And he said further cutting staff would compromise safety and be "irresponsible."

"This continued suggestion of cutting workforce for technology and fare gates, at a time when fare evasion is one of the largest problems in the system, shows the CBC is slightly out of touch," said Simon, general chairman of the International Association of Sheet Metal, Air, Rail and Transportation Workers.

Source: https://www.newsday.com/long-island/transportation/lirr-mta-trains-cost-budget-savings-report-1.50257742?fbclid=IwAR2ESE-6e3iAwiDMt63gkYd8Kq3lrOXB7Nga9_mNPlVJqrpMWhvQtPUqefg

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Funny that this story was released around the same time when another report came out, which noted that the  lost $60 million in Q1 of this year because of fare evasion. They're on pace again to lose over $200 million yet again due to fare beating.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-fare-evasion-spikes-nyc-subway-mta-20210524-xfp2yhyl4vagroqyo7lvenv6a4-story.html?fbclid=IwAR0N_ACc4acrekdELcmQlAdqOXcHY_9TgoxpnjozE0jUjcOp6t23m-ejDMs

Edited May 26, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[paulrivera]

Having fare gates at terminal stations like Penn, Jamaica, GCT, and Atlantic Terminal do make sense. You'd have passengers activate their e-tickets before passing thru the fare gates so that the MTA doesn't lose their money at the major stops. That way if you have a crowded train leaving the city you don't have to worry as much about not being able to collect a fare.

Fare gates at every single stop while eliminating half of the conductors sounds like a non-starter. More maintenance costs for the MTA, less safety on the trains, and people will probably still find a way to game the system.

[RPC324]

The only way I see this system working is if the ticket defaults to the highest fare (ie. City Terminal or farthest zone east) and holds unless you scan out at a station, or have the ability to read and confirm monthly access. Otherwise it is going to be a nightmare getting out of Penn or Atlantic. Coming into stations people are spread out by arrival time, and it won't be as much of an issue at the non-terminal stations. 

 

Still need conductors on the train to ensure fares were paid and perform all of their other safety and supervision functions.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 5/26/2021 at 7:29 PM, paulrivera said:

Having fare gates at terminal stations like Penn, Jamaica, GCT, and Atlantic Terminal do make sense. You'd have passengers activate their e-tickets before passing thru the fare gates so that the MTA doesn't lose their money at the major stops. That way if you have a crowded train leaving the city you don't have to worry as much about not being able to collect a fare.

Fare gates at every single stop while eliminating half of the conductors sounds like a non-starter. More maintenance costs for the MTA, less safety on the trains, and people will probably still find a way to game the system.

 

6 minutes ago, RPC324 said:

The only way I see this system working is if the ticket defaults to the highest fare (ie. City Terminal or farthest zone east) and holds unless you scan out at a station, or have the ability to read and confirm monthly access. Otherwise it is going to be a nightmare getting out of Penn or Atlantic. Coming into stations people are spread out by arrival time, and it won't be as much of an issue at the non-terminal stations. 

 

Still need conductors on the train to ensure fares were paid and perform all of their other safety and supervision functions.

You need the conductors to ensure that the fare is paid. The  is dealing with a rampant fare beating issue systemwide, so the idea that turnstiles work is preposterous. For Q1 of this year, they already lost an estimated $59 million due to farebeating, and that's just for January, February and March. Using gates sounds great in theory, but the Manhattan DA has a hands-off policy when it comes to doing anything about farebeating, which is why the situation continues to worsen. The NYPD doesn't want to get involved either as they've been criticized repeatedly when they try to address the issue, so I don't expect the  to remove conductors anytime soon on the LIRR or Metro-North, less they lose even more money.

I've been extremely vocal about this issue for the last few years. I am sick of the fares going up, in part to pay for everyone else that's getting a free ride, and they need to address the problem. If people can't afford to pay then they should look for alternatives to get around.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-fare-evasion-spikes-nyc-subway-mta-20210524-xfp2yhyl4vagroqyo7lvenv6a4-story.html?fbclid=IwAR3wbLdlCTFSYT6JElserpGupRnJyD8cUcYO2Qx_lNuFiardF2JfOzXnO8Y

Edited May 29, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Lawrence St]

Eliminating half of the conductor jobs will have the Union coming after like crazy. You saw what happened when they tried to make the one person operation.

[AJ023]

The OMNY fare payment system is not even ready yet for LIRR.   

[checkmatechamp13]

10 hours ago, RPC324 said:

The only way I see this system working is if the ticket defaults to the highest fare (ie. City Terminal or farthest zone east) and holds unless you scan out at a station, or have the ability to read and confirm monthly access. Otherwise it is going to be a nightmare getting out of Penn or Atlantic. Coming into stations people are spread out by arrival time, and it won't be as much of an issue at the non-terminal stations. 

Still need conductors on the train to ensure fares were paid and perform all of their other safety and supervision functions.

The big thing with a scan-based system is that the card needs to be picked up very quickly, because if you miss that train, you will often be waiting an hour or more.

8 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Eliminating half of the conductor jobs will have the Union coming after like crazy. You saw what happened when they tried to make the one person operation.

They don't have to be eliminated. They can be be promoted to engineer (or assigned to other duties such as flagging). 

[bobtehpanda]

12 hours ago, RPC324 said:

The only way I see this system working is if the ticket defaults to the highest fare (ie. City Terminal or farthest zone east) and holds unless you scan out at a station, or have the ability to read and confirm monthly access. Otherwise it is going to be a nightmare getting out of Penn or Atlantic. Coming into stations people are spread out by arrival time, and it won't be as much of an issue at the non-terminal stations. 

 

Still need conductors on the train to ensure fares were paid and perform all of their other safety and supervision functions.

 

2 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The big thing with a scan-based system is that the card needs to be picked up very quickly, because if you miss that train, you will often be waiting an hour or more.

They don't have to be eliminated. They can be be promoted to engineer (or assigned to other duties such as flagging). 

This is how National Rail works out of London.

All these things exist in other places and I'll hold my breath for whenever New York decides to take a serious look at it. (The CBC has been hemming and hawing about this for decades.)

On a more serious note, I would have no idea where you could reasonably put a turnstile array anywhere in Penn Station without causing major chokepoints. The station is poorly laid out and congested as it is, and there's not really room for them in the Empire Station plans either. For context, this is how large the gate line at Waterloo Station is:

Edited May 30, 2021 by bobtehpanda