Bus to Wards Island before 1995? M34? M35?

[vmadden]

I read that the M35 began service to Wards Island in 1995, and before that it was the M34. But then in another place I read that it only when from Harlem to Randalls Island not Wards. Can anyone clarify please? I am writing something set in 1993 that involves taking the bus from 125th to Wards. I remember riding the M35 around 2008 to Randalls Island, and it was quite a lively ride. The bus driver broke up two fights and put one man off the bus, then the rest of the bus yelled at him that he'd ejected the wrong guy. 

Any history on getting to Wards Island by public transit in the early 90s is deeply appreciated.

[NewFlyer 230]

1 hour ago, vmadden said:

I read that the M35 began service to Wards Island in 1995, and before that it was the M34. But then in another place I read that it only when from Harlem to Randalls Island not Wards. Can anyone clarify please? I am writing something set in 1993 that involves taking the bus from 125th to Wards. I remember riding the M35 around 2008 to Randalls Island, and it was quite a lively ride. The bus driver broke up two fights and put one man off the bus, then the rest of the bus yelled at him that he'd ejected the wrong guy. 

Any history on getting to Wards Island by public transit in the early 90s is deeply appreciated.

I’m not familiar with the history of the M35 all too well but back in the 1980s it did run to Astoria from Harlem via Randall/Wards Island. 

[FLX9304]

3 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I’m not familiar with the history of the M35 all too well but back in the 1980s it did run to Astoria from Harlem via Randall/Wards Island. 

M34 ran from 125th St to Wards Isle until 1980, when it merged with the M35. The  needed that route for its 34th St Crosstown as they wanted every Crosstown route renumbered after the street it runs under: 

Street          before.        Now

8/9.              M13.             M8

14.               M14.             Same

23.               M26.             M23

34               M16.              M34/34A

42.              M106.           M42

49/50.        M27.             M50 (Port Authority still M27 until 2010) 

57.             M28.              M57

59.             M103.           M58 short lived

65/66/67/68 M29.         M66

72             M30.              M72, M30 to 58th until 2010

79/81.      M17.               M79

86.            M18.               M86

96.            M19.               M96

106          M19                 M106

116          M20                 M116

125          Bx15                M125 (6/22/2022) 

 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On 12/20/2023 at 8:12 AM, vmadden said:

I read that the M35 began service to Wards Island in 1995, and before that it was the M34. But then in another place I read that it only when from Harlem to Randalls Island not Wards. Can anyone clarify please? I am writing something set in 1993 that involves taking the bus from 125th to Wards. I remember riding the M35 around 2008 to Randalls Island, and it was quite a lively ride. The bus driver broke up two fights and put one man off the bus, then the rest of the bus yelled at him that he'd ejected the wrong guy. 

Any history on getting to Wards Island by public transit in the early 90s is deeply appreciated.

 

  Randalls (north) and Wards (south) used to be separate islands, but the small channel between them ("Little Hell Gate") was filled in during the 1960s and they are now physically one island with two names.

 

 The 1946 Fifth Avenue Coach Lines bus map shows a multi-branch route called TB serving Manhattan (Lexington/125th), Bronx (Jackson/138th), Astoria (24 Ave & 37th St), and Randalls and Wards Island (shown as separate islands). 

 

 In 1974, TB was dissolved into M34 (Lexington to Randalls/Wards), M35 (Lexington to Astoria), Bx21 (Bronx to Astoria).

 

 Bx21 didn't last long. M34 was later merged into M35 (Lexington - Randalls/Wards - Astoria).

 

 After M60 started in 1992, M35 didn't need to go to Queens but was kept there rush-only due to politics until 1995. 

 

 Search Google for 1974 Manhattan and Bronx bus maps, the 1975 Queens bus map, and the 1946 Fifth Avenue Coach Lines map. 

[The TransitMan]

Believe it or not, this COULD be something to think about for the Manhattan Bus Redesign. Obviously, we can have fun and speculate BUT I know this COULD be a topic once that process gets started.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

2 hours ago, The TransitMan said:

Believe it or not, this COULD be something to think about for the Manhattan Bus Redesign. Obviously, we can have fun and speculate BUT I know this COULD be a topic once that process gets started.

 

What is your concept? Revisit the three-headed hydra? A new Wards Island route to Queens?

[The TransitMan]

5 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

What is your concept? Revisit the three-headed hydra? A new Wards Island route to Queens?

The M35 to Astoria COULD do some good. Especially since the M60 is ALWAYS crowded. It COULD reduce crowds from Astoria to 125th St. Now yes, the traffic on the Triborough is another story but there are days when traffic is moving. Should it travel the old pattern of 37th St and 24th Av? I don't think it should because I live a few blocks south of that location and today it would not gain that much ridership. HOWEVER, if you terminate the bus at Steinway St and Astoria Blvd North (westbound) and serve ALL Q19 bus stops up to the bridge, you might gain some ridership.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

3 hours ago, The TransitMan said:

The M35 to Astoria COULD do some good. Especially since the M60 is ALWAYS crowded. It COULD reduce crowds from Astoria to 125th St. Now yes, the traffic on the Triborough is another story but there are days when traffic is moving. Should it travel the old pattern of 37th St and 24th Av? I don't think it should because I live a few blocks south of that location and today it would not gain that much ridership. HOWEVER, if you terminate the bus at Steinway St and Astoria Blvd North (westbound) and serve ALL Q19 bus stops up to the bridge, you might gain some ridership.

Could that also be due to the fact that its the only interborough link to Queens in that part of the city? In other words, how much of the M60 ridership crossing into Manhattan, is looking for areas of The Bronx, and Manhattan that are not Harlem or connected by the M60. With the former I'd claim that there's a sizable chunk (not the main driver of ridership, but sufficient enough) doing that, having a separate Bronx-Queens link would alleviate some of the strain off the M60. 

I wouldn't involve the M35 with it because for starters, it would be most useful for East Harlem - Astoria riders in particular. However even within that group of people the M35 would take longer than the M60 to even be considered as a worthwhile option. That's also without bringing up that anyone that isn't remotely aware of the M35's ridership will find out real quick that it isn't anything they want to deal with on a regular basis. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

12 hours ago, The TransitMan said:

The M35 to Astoria COULD do some good. Especially since the M60 is ALWAYS crowded. It COULD reduce crowds from Astoria to 125th St. Now yes, the traffic on the Triborough is another story but there are days when traffic is moving. Should it travel the old pattern of 37th St and 24th Av? I don't think it should because I live a few blocks south of that location and today it would not gain that much ridership. HOWEVER, if you terminate the bus at Steinway St and Astoria Blvd North (westbound) and serve ALL Q19 bus stops up to the bridge, you might gain some ridership.

 

Except that an M35 from Astoria would get "thisclose" to Manhattan and then jump off the bridge to take the grand tour of Randalls and Wards Islands before returning to the bridge.  The Astoria-Harlem crowd voted with their feet when the M60 started and never looked back.

 

A Wards Island-to-Queens link probably should be a separate route (Q89 based at LGA or CS?) with a stop in Astoria and then continuing to Jackson Heights (to maximize transfer opportunities). 

 

For the M35 itself, is Lexington/125th the right place, or should it end somewhere else?

 

[B35 via Church]

16 hours ago, The TransitMan said:

The M35 to Astoria COULD do some good. Especially since the M60 is ALWAYS crowded. It COULD reduce crowds from Astoria to 125th St. Now yes, the traffic on the Triborough is another story but there are days when traffic is moving. Should it travel the old pattern of 37th St and 24th Av? I don't think it should because I live a few blocks south of that location and today it would not gain that much ridership. HOWEVER, if you terminate the bus at Steinway St and Astoria Blvd North (westbound) and serve ALL Q19 bus stops up to the bridge, you might gain some ridership.

I'm not seeing why the M35 in particular has to be an M60 supplement.... Hell, FWIW, I would rather take the Q19 from the Astoria PJ's & turn that up towards Manhattan, over having the M35 towards Astoria.... Nobody seeking "mainland" Manhattan from Queens wants to go on a tour of Randalls/Wards Islands before the fact.

3 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

For the M35 itself, is Lexington/125th the right place, or should it end somewhere else?

Perfect right where it is AFAIC.

There's been proposals on these parts to extend the M35 along more of 125th.... No way would I support something like that, when just last year, the Bx15 got split at the Hub.....

12 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Could that also be due to the fact that its the only interborough link to Queens in that part of the city? In other words, how much of the M60 ridership crossing into Manhattan, is looking for areas of The Bronx, and Manhattan that are not Harlem or connected by the M60. With the former I'd claim that there's a sizable chunk (not the main driver of ridership, but sufficient enough) doing that, having a separate Bronx-Queens link would alleviate some of the strain off the M60. 

I wouldn't involve the M35 with it because for starters, it would be most useful for East Harlem - Astoria riders in particular. However even within that group of people the M35 would take longer than the M60 to even be considered as a worthwhile option. That's also without bringing up that anyone that isn't remotely aware of the M35's ridership will find out real quick that it isn't anything they want to deal with on a regular basis. 

Having a Bronx - LGA route would most certainly alleviate matters.... On a more macro note, that's where the real issue lies... I'll continue to say this for as long as the days are long - This impending Q50 won't do shit for Bronx - LGA demand....

On a lesser note though, something else that would alleviate matters is to take the M60 from 106th & end it where the former Bx15/current M125 does, along W. 125th.... Whenever they get around to revamping Manhattan's network, that's something I fully expect to see proposed for the M60...

But this whole extending the M35 to Astoria bit, I can't see that happening (or even proposed by the MTA) - especially as some measure to supplement the M60...

[The TransitMan]

On 12/30/2023 at 11:24 AM, The TransitMan said:

Believe it or not, this COULD be something to think about for the Manhattan Bus Redesign. Obviously, we can have fun and speculate BUT I know this COULD be a topic once that process gets started.

 

16 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Could that also be due to the fact that its the only interborough link to Queens in that part of the city? In other words, how much of the M60 ridership crossing into Manhattan, is looking for areas of The Bronx, and Manhattan that are not Harlem or connected by the M60. With the former I'd claim that there's a sizable chunk (not the main driver of ridership, but sufficient enough) doing that, having a separate Bronx-Queens link would alleviate some of the strain off the M60. 

I wouldn't involve the M35 with it because for starters, it would be most useful for East Harlem - Astoria riders in particular. However even within that group of people the M35 would take longer than the M60 to even be considered as a worthwhile option. That's also without bringing up that anyone that isn't remotely aware of the M35's ridership will find out real quick that it isn't anything they want to deal with on a regular basis. 

 

7 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Except that an M35 from Astoria would get "thisclose" to Manhattan and then jump off the bridge to take the grand tour of Randalls and Wards Islands before returning to the bridge.  The Astoria-Harlem crowd voted with their feet when the M60 started and never looked back.

 

A Wards Island-to-Queens link probably should be a separate route (Q89 based at LGA or CS?) with a stop in Astoria and then continuing to Jackson Heights (to maximize transfer opportunities). 

 

For the M35 itself, is Lexington/125th the right place, or should it end somewhere else?

 

 

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I'm not seeing why the M35 in particular has to be an M60 supplement.... Hell, FWIW, I would rather take the Q19 from the Astoria PJ's & turn that up towards Manhattan, over having the M35 towards Astoria.... Nobody seeking "mainland" Manhattan from Queens wants to go on a tour of Randalls/Wards Islands before the fact.

Perfect right where it is AFAIC.

There's been proposals on these parts to extend the M35 along more of 125th.... No way would I support something like that, when just last year, the Bx15 got split at the Hub.....

Having a Bronx - LGA route would most certainly alleviate matters.... On a more macro note, that's where the real issue lies... I'll continue to say this for as long as the days are long - This impending Q50 won't do shit for Bronx - LGA demand....

On a lesser note though, something else that would alleviate matters is to take the M60 from 106th & end it where the former Bx15/current M125 does, along W. 125th.... Whenever they get around to revamping Manhattan's network, that's something I fully expect to see proposed for the M60...

But this whole extending the M35 to Astoria bit, I can't see that happening (or even proposed by the MTA) - especially as some measure to supplement the M60...

"B35 via Church", you read my mind with the M60 ending at 125th St and 12th Av. However, we leave the M35 alone BUT another route wouldn't hurt in that part of Queens. The Q19 is PACKED now as I took it around 6:30 AM TO ASTORIA. It carries all day and those 15 minute intervals COULD be adjusted. Besides, recently I was on an M60 to ASTORIA-31st ST...first time seeing that. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

On a lesser note though, something else that would alleviate matters is to take the M60 from 106th & end it where the former Bx15/current M125 does, along W. 125th.... Whenever they get around to revamping Manhattan's network, that's something I fully expect to see proposed for the M60...

 

The Columbia University crowd would complain very loudly if that were proposed. They love the M60 (they just didn't like it ending and laying over at 116th (1994-1995).

[B35 via Church]

18 minutes ago, The TransitMan said:

"B35 via Church", you read my mind with the M60 ending at 125th St and 12th Av. However, we leave the M35 alone BUT another route wouldn't hurt in that part of Queens. The Q19 is PACKED now as I took it around 6:30 AM TO ASTORIA. It carries all day and those 15 minute intervals COULD be adjusted. Besides, recently I was on an M60 to ASTORIA-31st ST...first time seeing that. 

Oh, that wasn't an actual suggestion; I'm perfectly fine with leaving the Q19 where it is (as it's something I was advocating for, way back when it ended at Astoria blvd/21st st)... I was only saying that to express how much I'm against extending the M35.

But as far as M60's continuing to serve Columbia U. & what not, ehh... The thing's got bigger fish to fry & not for nothing, but the terminal situation over there on W. 106th & Broadway isn't the greatest for it anymore, since it became an all artic route.... And that's putting it nicely.

1 minute ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

The Columbia University crowd would complain very loudly if that were proposed. They love the M60 (they just didn't like it ending and laying over at 116th (1994-1995).

I'm pretty sure they would...

Edited December 31, 2023 by B35 via Church