Union Tpke

8 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I'm not sure if you and I are on the same page but here's my take on what's going on. Simple answer is the retirement of the oldest equipment but that's not what I am saying. The road I'm traveling on is saying that even with a one to one replacement of new equipment,  train or bus, there's still less service overall than before. Nothing is going to run more often. The next question is " scrap or store" ? I can only speak about the subway side and only my own experience in the IRT. I was part of the new car delivery unit in the early 80's. We would take horses ( work motors ) down to Coney Island yard and bring the new equipment back to the IRT. While the new stuff was prepped for service the regular, older,equipment still provided the most service daily. Here's where I was going originally. The new  R62 and R62A cars were delivered as designed. Problem was with the conductor's position . Key modifications to all the new equipment were necessary. Luckily for us the older cars weren't on the scrap line already. Now imagine that we had a reduction in service back then. New cars coming in with older cars still providing a lot of service.  Where do you store this overflow of cars ? I remember the grafitti era.  Trains stored on the structure, underground or in the other division's yards. Luckily for us that Unionport yard was constructed in the Bronx to keep us from storing trains on the WPR structure and Gun Hill Road lower on the Third Avenue El tracks. I see that you mentioned the R179 cars. They weren't exactly known for reliability IIRC.  In short this is my opinion.  YMMV. Carry on. 

Can you elaborate on the issue with the C/R's position on the R62 and R62As?

1 hour ago, Kurtis said:

So I was at the 3rd Avenue–149th Street  Station a few days ago and noticed that the MetroCard bargain squad was camped out affront the turnstiles as usual. It was hilarious seeing that with the emergency gate wide open with the NYPD staring them down on the other side of the tracks.

They don't care, and the NYPD is on a policing slowdown.

1 minute ago, Deucey said:

You mean he's not faking this?

Feel free to look at the user's contributions, which are usually reverted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Rgalo10

If you look further down, they would regularly say "brilliant excellent" in their edit summaries, which are supposed to summarize the content of their edits.

6 hours ago, Deucey said:

How's Wikipedia "right but not reliable"?

And what have you edited on Wiki since you bad grammar and contradict yourself here regularly?

I have had to revert this user's edits dozens of times.

23 hours ago, TheNewYorkElevated said:

Bedford Park Boulevard was one of many of those IND stops that was designed to handle a huge number of passengers in anticipation for population increase in the city (but that never happened, it started to decrease during the 1970s). 

Yes. But like any other IND stop with a big mezzanine, half of it is closed off. 

A few stops along the line also have entrances to the underpass as well at numerous other east-west streets that intersect Grand Concourse, with Fordham Road as an exception. 167th and 170th also have underpass entrances, but they've been long closed off. The underpasses were built for the long gone trolley lines when the IND was expanding into the Bronx during the early half of the Great Depression. 

174th-175th also has a closed underpass entrance.

24 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

Interesting sign there – looks like it was hand painted on there. I wonder what the original said. Like I was mentioning, my '32/'36 sign only says 8th Street and 3rd Street, which is funny. Re: the slab over, that's kind of what I meant about the difficult of reopening. But just surprising they would close so late – Greenwich Village was totally bustling in the 1970s, maybe even moreso than today. It's hardly a stop out in East New York or some lengthy scary passageway like the Gimbel's. Maybe the sign was out of date for a while. Even today, when they're more on top of things, West 4th still has signs for the C to the Bronx that are 25 years out of date, and plenty of stations have defunct exists still marked...

Grain of salt, but a commenter on that posts notes that the West 4th exit wasn't there in the 1970s. I've only ever seen photos of the other exits from the 30s and 40s, not from more recent. I watched footage of that stretch of 6th in the late 1960s-early 1970s recently, and can confirm there is no exit visible at West 4th, or Washington Place, or the corner by Greenwich. So my guess is 1950s, if not earlier.

Redditor tuttikanayee put this up. There's the exit, but this is so old the 6th Ave el is up.

 

Thanks for letting me know. I will update the list accordingly.

15 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

I feel like it must have been earlier. There's not even a trace of those street entrances. Most of the 70s-80s closures the whole stairwell/kiosk is still there, and there's something than can be reopened fairly easily. There's nothing at West 4th.

An image from the New York Transit Museum of West 4th Street in 1978 shows signage pointing toward the entrance at West 4th Street. While it is not definitive proof, as the TA could have forgotten to take down the sign, the timing makes sense.

Au contraire. Most of the 70s-80s closures have been slabbed over or replaced by emergency entrances of gratings. The entrances to Washington Place and West 4th lead to the lower mezzanine and are blocked from view by employee spaces, some of which can be removed pretty easily.

The entrance at the SE corner of West 4th was slabbed over in 1999 as part of the renovation of Golden Swan Park, and a portion of the entrance is used as an air vent, while the rest of the space is occupied by a garden. The NW corner entrance was partially covered by a steel trapdoor, with the remainder slabbed over. A ladder has replaced some of the stairs. The entrance to the SW corner of Washington Place is blocked by a trapdoor and used as an emergency exit. The entrance to the SE corner was never actually opened has an easement to a building. The entrance to the SW corner of Greenwich leads to the small West 8th street mezzanine and is in area off of the sidewalk now blocked by plywood.

On 10/24/2020 at 12:21 AM, Trainmaster5 said:

As a person who worked work trains in the Steinway tubes in the prehistoric era it’s my observation that the only way B division equipment could traverse this area is if the tubes were shut down and replaced with wider tunnels. R62 equipment scraped the walls when they underwent testing. The door indication lights on the upper car bodies were being knocked off in the tubes. I’ve walked from First Avenue uphill to the Grand Central platform a few times and it is a tight fit. We would rather take a diesel and a flat car rather than a diesel and a rider car through the area because the former seemed safer than the latter. My personal experience. Carry on.

For some of our younger posters, here are some more details on how narrow the tunnels are:

When there have been incidents in the Steinway tubes, it has been really hard to evacuate passengers, leading to disasters like these:

https://www.nytimes.com/1971/05/28/archives/hazards-cited-in-rescuing-stranded-irt-passengers.html

Quote

Transit Authority officials said yesterday that they were forced to leave passengers for almost two hours in a disabled, smoke‐filled subway train under the East River Wednesday be cause of the difficulty and hazards of evacuating them, through several stalled trains and along the tracks.

Quote

The Steinway tunnels from Manhattan to Queens were completed in 1907 for trolley cars, according to the M.T.A. spokesman and were first used for IRT subway trains in 1915. The tunnels are so narrow, he said, that it is impossible to use the catwalks.

Moving passengers would have meant leading them through the trains and onto the tracks at several points en route to the Vernon‐Jackson station. Since some passengers were ill, it was decided to wait until power was restored and move the trains with passen gers aboard.

https://www.nytimes.com/1973/08/29/archives/1000-trapped-in-an-ir-t-tunnel-accident-man-dies-of-heart-attack-in.html

Quote

One man died and 1,000 passengers were trapped in 115‐degree heat and heavy smoke yesterday after an archway in the ancient Flushing line tunnel under the East River collapsed on the first car of Queens‐bound IRT train.

At least 18 passengers were carried from the tunnel on stretchers by sweating policemen and firemen, and scores of others had to be assisted to the street for treatment before they were sent home. The dead man apparently suffered a heart attack in the heat, smoke and confusion.

Normal service on the Flushing line was restored at 8:46 P.M. after the track at the site of the collapse, near First Avenue and 42d Street, had been cleared.

The 1 hour 20 minutes that the passengers were trapped in the intense heat and smoke was a time of terror and quiet heroism, of ehaos and people finding a moment to be kind to one another. Many remarked about the minimum of hysteria.

There is no clearance in the tunnels, making it very hard to do necessary repair work:

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ancient-steinway-tunnel-no-1-headache-no-7-train-article-1.122193

Quote

On other stretches of track in the sprawling system, workers can do similar equipment inspections and maintenance in the time gaps between trains, tucking themselves into concrete niches or between iron columns when a train approaches and emerging when it passes.

That's not possible in Steinway. The two cast-iron tubes - Manhattan-bound and Queens-bound - are narrow. Very narrow. The only way to avoid getting struck by an approaching train is to scramble up a high bench wall along the tracks. It's too dangerous and impractical to pull that off repeatedly with regular train traffic.
"We can't have people working in here at all when the trains are moving," Prendergast said. "We can't respond to make repairs."

From an article in New York Magazine:

Quote

Trackworkers most fear the narrow tunnels that run beneath the East River, which they refer to as “tubes.” One of the most narrow is the Steinway tube, completed in 1907 and originally intended for trolleys; now the 7 train runs there, from Grand Central to Long Island City. The tube is so narrow that if you’re standing on the bench wall next to the track when a train comes, it’s best to turn sideways and crouch down on your hands and knees. If you don’t, if you instead try to press your back against the tunnel’s curved wall, your head may be right in the path of the train.

7 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Sorry for the late response but you have brought up some valid points. The difference boils down to training. My trainers stressed movement, that of the riders and the train consist itself. I've mentioned in the past that  my C/R and M/M instructors all had the same view on operations. What I'm speaking of relates to the IRT in particular. Ride a n/b  or  train from  Fulton St to 125th and Lex. The curves leaving Fulton, Brooklyn Bridge, Union Square, and Grand Central are to be traversed without throwing the riders or the C/R from side to side, especially during rush hours with a heavy passenger load. Same thing applies to the curves between stations , ie. Canal through Astor or the downgrade south of 125th St. These gentleman would ride trains along that corridor without identifying themselves, unless necessary, observing one's operation. Remember that I'm talking about SMEE consists. The C/R was supposed to ride outside the cab in full view of the riders. Sling him around while speeding through curves and arguments would ensue at the terminal or in the parking lot. BTW the  and  lines were the same.....

@RR503 Do you have anything to add about ATS?

7 hours ago, 4P3607 said:

But West 4th DID used to have an actual entrance at West 4th Street. (Wish someone had more info on this + historical pics)

Also hearing a work train derailed in CI yard just before 😬

@4P3607

I do have some historic pics of the NW corner West 4th entrance, but am still looking for images of the SE corner entrance. You have to zoom in:

https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/510d47dc-f600-a3d9-e040-e00a18064a99 (1935)

http://nycma.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/NYCMA~5~5~177277~495798 (c. 1940)

Here are some photos of closed entrances at West 4th Street from public areas:

http://indsecondsystem.weebly.com/west-4th-st.html

Based on my research, the entrances at West 4th Street closed c.1978.

While there are some station diagrams I have access to that I can't publicly share, there is one that is already on the web that shows the Lower Platform and Mezzanine:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/NARAprodstorage/lz/electronic-records/rg-079/NPS_NY/05000223.pdf#page=16

For more information on the closed entrances at West 4th and around the system, check out my list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kew_Gardens_613/List_of_closed_New_York_City_Subway_entrances

Here is a snippet from it about a never opened entrance at the Southeastern corner of Washington Place and Sixth Avenue to the lower mezzanine, Stair S5. Space partially occupied by police room. The portion of the mezzanine in front of the entrance is used by the Structure D Night Force. Control Area N081. Entrance partially constructed along with the station, but never opened. A small shed at street level had protected the entrance, which included a stairwell and an unused escalator well. In 1952, the property above the entrance easement was sold, along with the easement, with the understanding that the owner would provide a concrete slab to protect the entrance.

If you have any more questions about these entrances or any other, let me know.

@Via Garibaldi 8 The MTA just made it easier to farebeat at Bedford Avenue on the . Idiots. There are many athletic guys who would be willing to climb over that fence.

14 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

you know... it's days like this I miss being in the idealistic world... enjoy it while you've got it... because odds are you're probably not going to be stopping Cuomo's pet project any time soon. 

I am not optimistic in the least about this or other transit issues, but I feel the need to do as much as I can to demonstrate that the public is not overwhelmingly opposed to the project. While it would take a miracle to stop the project, certain things have to be in place to allow said miracle to take place. Just because it is hard to push for good transit and stop for bad transit, doesn't mean you should stop trying.

14 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Finally a voice of reason; thank you.  In another thread I tried to explain to some of them MTA doesn't give jack shit about their deinterlining ideas or other concepts for improving the system- went right over their heads, of course...

I strongly disagree with the attitude of this post. Yes, the MTA, without Byford there, does not care about deinterlining. We all get it. But, if you discourage people from proposing ideas to make the system better, there will be no chance that anything ever gets better. It is unlikely that the system gets materially better in the coming decade, but there are passionate people on the forums who want to get into transit as a profession and make change. Just discouraging people from proposing solutions is a large reason we are in the awful state we are in right now.

8 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

If you zoom in to the map, you'll be able to see moving icons denoting the trains along a certain path (I believe in real time). However there already is something wrong that I found, and it is that it shows the  going to Jamaica Van-Wyck as branching off from the QBL at Union Turnpike (when it's done at Briarwood). 

There are many geographic problems with it. At least it shows the Ws to 86th, the 2s to New Lots, the 5s to Utica, and the Ns to 96th on the map.

Almost all of us on here are opposed to the LGA AirTrain. The deadline for commenting on the DEIS for the project is at 5 p.m. tonight. You don't have to write a long or thorough comment, but I would urge you guys to speak up. https://www.lgaaccesseis.com/formal-comment

@LaGuardia Link N Tra This would be a great place to start making a real impact on improving transit in NYC, and stopping bad projects from coming through. I would recommend the same to all the aspiring transportation planners and advocates on the forums.

On 10/14/2020 at 11:02 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The best chance you had of getting better Bx20 service went down the drain. The DOT proposed a bus lane along Broadway that Community Board 8, Council member Cohen and various business owners opposed, and that's where the congestion is the worst. With the way the streets are laid out on the Bx10, there aren't many options to improve service, aside from breaking the route up. It transverses through narrow, hilly streets for segments which are what they are.

Wait, so that lane never got installed at all? I never saw any news that the lane actually never went through. I just saw articles at the time that mentioned opposition.

11 hours ago, GojiMet86 said:

I know right? Like if we really wanted to be realistic, we wouldn't have this thread.

What's all there is realistically left to do? Propose working on signals? The MTA has teams working on this,......maybe, I don't know what the state of the signals program is anymore. What about money problems? Yeah, like a bunch of 20-year olds have the knowledge of the inner workings of the State and the power to actually do something.

About the latter point, though I want to become a transportation planner, I have given thought to challenging a conservative Democrat in the State Senate in 2022.....

Major changes coming up on the IRT Eastern Parkway Line:

https://new.mta.info/projects/rehabilitating-2345-tunnels

Screen Shot 2020-10-15 at 4.57.19 PM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

Screen Shot 2020-10-15 at 4.57.25 PM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

On 10/9/2020 at 9:57 AM, Bklyn Bound 2 Local said:

I think it's Alabama Avenue on the  , it dates back to the 1860s

No. 1885.

Have it go to Jamaica! There is tons of ridership on the Q44, and there would be little demand to the Rockaways.

https://new.mta.info/coronavirus/overnight/bus-service

Screen Shot 2020-10-08 at 8.23.07 AM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

15 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

I’m surprised that station is still open, given that half its walkshed is cemeteries. 

One of the exits at Autumn Avenue was removed, and the other is exit only.

Amazing job. I really love the R42 work train photo!

I just got around to adding a summary of the document I posted in the Wikipedia article for the A train.

13 hours ago, vioreen said:

During night hours, instead of the  running from 207 to Far Rockaway why not just reroute it to Lefferts and have a shuttle  train From Euclid Ave to Far Rockaway.

The change was made as ridership is higher to the Rockaways than to Lefferts. It also allowed them to get rid of the round-robin shuttle.

IMG_1106 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

IMG_1107 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

IMG_1108 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

IMG_1109 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

IMG_1110 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

IMG_1111 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

IMG_1112 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

IMG_1113 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

IMG_1114 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

IMG_1115 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

IMG_1116 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

IMG_1117 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

@Lance @MHV9218@Ilia  I have a few questions that any of you might be able to answer.

First, do you have any explanation for why this was done?

Second, anyone have an explanation for this? I would love to know what the other readings on this curtain were.

1 hour ago, MHV9218 said:

On this note, at least on the 80s signs for the 68As – don't know if the 2001 replacements were printed the same way – the MTA, in its infinite wisdom, grouped the readings alphabetically. This makes sense to somebody in a suit, less so somebody working in RTO. Consequently, "Far Rockaway" is nowhere near "Rockaways, Queens" or "Rockaway Park," and "Lefferts" is stuck in the middle. On other orders of rollsigns they wisely placed terminals near each other for the C/R's sake, and in later 68 rolls they combined "Far Rockaway" and "JFK Airport" into "Far Rockaway via JFK Aiport," which made things smoother.

These are the rollsigns in question, courtesy of @Lance