GreatOne2k

43 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Can someone please explain the point of swapping the northern terminals again?

Keep the crew assignments the same or close to it.  crews operate the  from 241 St to Flatbush Avenue,  crews operate the  from Dyre Avenue to South Ferry.

33 minutes ago, Lance said:

And good riddance. The old names don't exist anywhere except on very old maps, therefore they should be removed from the signage. Of course, the same could be said for Rawson, Lowery and Bliss, and yet they continue to hang on despite their constantly dwindling historical significance.

Regarding the actual work to be done, hopefully they find a way to minimize the amount of line closures necessary for these. I'm sure Jamaica riders would really like to see weekend service beyond Crescent St and Broadway Junction at least once this year.

Yes, I am aware J trains have run normally a few times this year. Don't be pedantic.

Rawson, Lowery, and Bliss do exist outside the station since 2003 (Bliss also has existed in Sunnyside Gardens since 1982). Because of this, MTA will not remove those names again.  This is also why those three names were also restored to the subway map as well.

https://forgotten-ny.com/2009/09/back-to-the-boulevard-queens-boulevard-along-the-flushing-el/

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/07/nyregion/neighborhood-report-sunnyside-names-have-been-changed-confuse-innocent.html

https://sunnysidepost.com/sunnysidewoodsides-street-names-remain-relevant

Goodbye Lincoln and Fisk, unless they get the City Council and DOT involved....

26 minutes ago, Lex said:

Over your head...

Excuse me?  The / swap is done to keep the 2/5 crews in place (with similar runs) and to cut down on overtime. I just pointed out the benefits for some riders. The alternative would be to swap the and  in Manhattan causing more confusion than just swapping in the Bronx (and Brooklyn).

1 hour ago, Lex said:

Great, this BS again...

Not BS, the  will actually run the whole weekend, even overnight, good for Lexington Avenue  and lower White Plains Road   trunk lines.  The swap will be the only time the will really run on weekends at all.

On 5/1/2019 at 8:01 PM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Which fundamentals? The physical layout of the tracks at Rogers? The service hours of each line? Current off-peak train frequency? 

The current weekend service plan isn’t bad. But that’s because  trains run less frequently then, and there’s no  train in Brooklyn on the weekends, so it doesn’t cut in front of the  at Rogers, like it does on weekdays. But no one’s calling for termination of weekday/rush hour  service at Bowling Green. That would be much worse than de-interlining Rogers. We do need more frequently running trains if we’re going to address crowding on the  (peak and off-peak), let alone provide for a Utica Avenue subway extension.

And let’s be honest here - the fastest and easiest way we’re going to get a subway down most of Utica is via the A-Division. In order to have a B-Division train run down Utica, they’d have to bring in another B-Division service on Fulton St (be it the , the  or something else), because extending the  or  down Utica is a non-starter. So extending a line down Utica starting at Fulton will be centuries off (if we’re lucky!). Because we’re already decades off from having a  line (if ever) or a new East River tunnel to connect the  or  to Fulton at Hoyt-Schermerhorn (which would require years and years of study before they can even break ground on it).

But I also don’t understand how de-interlining Rogers would be a giant 🖕to Harlem residents during off peak hours. Who’s to say they would cut the  entirely during off peak hours if Rogers is de-interlined? I honestly don’t think they would. It would result in major overcrowding during evening, overnight and weekend hours on the  and  lines. And the  do get quite crowded on weekends and late nights. That was why the late night  shuttle train got brought back in 2007 and to Times Square (not just to 135th Street) And it survived the 2010 budget cuts. Worse comes to worse, you run the  local in Manhattan to South Ferry. It would be no different than the  running local in Manhattan on weekends. And like the , the  could certainly use the extra service, especially between 96th Street and Times Square.

How so? If the IRT made decisions a century ago that have messed up the services in Brooklyn today, then what else can be done to correct said decisions?

And if the  runs in Brooklyn during evenings and weekends instead of the , why would there be a decrease in general service?

Frankly, I think this is definitely a workable service plan. Maybe the only thing I’d change is running the  to - and eventually down - Utica, while running the  to NL. During overnights, the  would replace the  to NL. Then if the Utica extension gets built, an overnight  shuttle can run between NL and Atlantic.

Or run the  24/7 full length, no sense to have two shuttle services overnight, might as well combine them with a through service.

7 minutes ago, shiznit1987 said:

The MTA will never do such a thing. It's a nice thought, but budget realities means that if the  both go to the same places then only one will suffice overnights (and weekends for that matter, hence Lex's point). The MTA will continue to run only the  and  into Brooklyn overnight as long as there are only two branches to serve. As far was weekends are concerned, the current pattern is already the best and pretty generous to boot seeing as the MTA could try to get away w/ having the  go local after Franklin and take over New Lots. 

 

The  or  running 24/7 is assuming the Utica line is built. The  running to Brooklyn 24/7 means the will still at least run to Times Square 42 St late nights, meaning better late night service overall. MTA already had the  and  local in Brooklyn on weekends for more than a year, so they could just as easily do that again. The would have to run 24/7 for Harlem residents in some form (like to South Ferry on weekends). The Harlem politicians will complain if the is cut on weekends permanently.

1 minute ago, shiznit1987 said:

Sending the 3 to Flatbush *would* kill the chance of off peak  service, since now the  pretty much run the same route. The best of both worlds is to leave both the  and  alone and run the  to Utica. Some s will be extended to New Lots to balance the load. 

Doing that would mean that the  would have to run to Brooklyn 24/7, the would either stay the same late nights, or could be extended as a local to South Ferry allowing the to run express 24/7 on 7 Avenue. The  would run express 24/7 on Lexington Avenue.

Off peak service will improve as the  and/or  would have to run to Brooklyn 24/7. Running the 24/7 would be much cheaper for the MTA, though running the  24/7 is more useful for late night travel.

If one of the tunnels (Clark Street or Joralemon Street) were ever closed, the  or  would have to be extended to Brooklyn on weekends since there would now be three branches.

Isn't a slow  train better than a slower bus ride? ,,, , , ,  and  riders are used to 'slow' rides in the outerboroughs.

5 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Assuming the  goes to Flatbush and the  goes to New Lots via the express while the  goes to Utica via the local: you would just run the  at the same service pattern at all times (maybe make it local if there isn’t enough express demand).

If the  runs all night, just have it run express in Brooklyn and Manhattan all night, no need for 3 locals, the  and  will be the locals

9 minutes ago, shiznit1987 said:

Knowing the MTA, they'd try to get away with having the  be the sole Utica line with  service staying the same. The  probably would go 24/7 to Brooklyn. 

In that case the  should be 24/7 express in Manhattan the the  can run local overnight

3 Brooklyn branches means that the  or  would have to run to Brooklyn 24/7, unless one branch is a late night shuttle.

Also if the Clark Street or Joralemon Street Tunnels were to ever close again, MTA would have to extend the  or  to Brooklyn to cover one of the branches, or run one of the branches as a shuttle. 

The City won't have to reimburse the MTA for the initial costs of the additional express bus service and can save that money for new Ferry routes.

Any cut MTA Bus Express service will just free up more NYC money to run more ferry routes

If the  goes to Essex, wouldn't it be better to bring back the  as a Broadway service instead of having two different colored  trains? Another option is to make the  run on Queens Boulevard 7 days a week in place of the weekend  service.  If the  and  have problems both using Whitehall, another option is to re extend the  to replace the  in Queens on weekdays since QB needs 4 services.

48 minutes ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

In the past, many people have described the  Line between East 180th Street and Eastchester-Dyre Avenue during overnight hours as being underutilized. If the ridership is so poor at night, what's stopping operations from returning to OPTO mode?

The is currently OPTO late nights unless it is extended below East 180th Street for a service change.

3 hours ago, Lance said:

Good luck trying to sell an elevated line to an area that hasn't had one in nearly 50 years. In this day and age, it's subway or bust.

An elevated could be done over Park Avenue Metro North tracks

On 2/8/2019 at 1:09 PM, paulrivera said:

It's kinda sorta still around for pick purposes... The old Bx55 runs are still based out of Kingsbridge while the legacy Bx15 runs are still out of West Farms. Only difference is that the KB runs are local runs and the limited stop runs are out of WF.

As for the part that ran between Fordham Plaza and Gun Hill Road, the Bx41 SBS more or less replaced it.

The late night Bx15 short turns to/from 149 St are also former Bx55 runs, problem is after 4am nothing replaces them, so late night service is not 20 minutes all night, it can be up to 60 minutes wait at certain directions/days

13 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

The and can't handle 49th St alone?

49th Street is a very busy station and it helps that both the and  stops there, at least MTA thinks so.

Just now, Lawrence St said:

Can someone please tell me why the switches from the local to the express at 34th Street and not at 57th Street?

To serve 49th Street station

Hoyt Avenue should be kept on the signs since it still exists right by the Astoria Boulevard station.

6 minutes ago, Orion6025 said:

The Bx23 exists as a Co-Op City loop route and it should stay that way. It does a half decent job doing what it already does, having it serve two completely new markets beyond what it was already designed to do is asking for trouble. Furthermore just running it up and down Bruckner isn't going to do much anyway; you're not gonna get much ridership return to the ferry just off of Bruckner. A more comprehensive route that serves more areas (Such as the one B35 via Church suggested on pg 106) is far more useful to the public and is much more worth the money spent than extending a route another 2(?) miles down the road.

----

My god what is everyone's obsession with extending a bus route down there. Just have NYC Ferry run its own shuttle down to the boat from miscellaneous ridership points and call it a day. To be quite frank there's no good route you could manipulate to serve that little terminal without bending over backwards or messing up an existing route. What matters is that the thing is served adequately with -some- sort of service, be it via the MTA or via some other private party. And the MTA really isn't a good option here unless someone gives them the money to draw up and run a brand new route that is useful to the surrounding communities.

The Bx23 can help the Q50 with the ridership to/from Target and the other stores in the shopping center it will be more than just ferry riders.  Some Co Op City residents at a meeting did mention something about having a route go to the Soundview Ferry. They could wait a few years and have the Bx23 to the Ferry Point Park stop. Some rush hour Bx23 trips will still be Co Op City loop shuttles, all of the off peak trips will be extended to Ring Road in Ferry Point Park. 

11 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

I could also see a variant of the Q50 (Bx51?) ending at the dock.

Extend the Bx23 to the Ferry, it is the local version of the Q50, it just won't go to Queens. The City can pay for it due to the blank check reimbursement.

On 1/16/2019 at 2:32 AM, LTA1992 said:

Beebe Avenue was the original name of 39th. The only reason those names are still around, and this includes the Flushing Line, was because people in the neighborhoods wanted the names preserved. The MTA has tried to get rid of them.

But it's 2018 and many of those people are surely cadaverriffic by now. So I'm sure it matters much less at this date.

Rawson, Lowery, and Bliss will never be removed because of the dual street signs outside of those stations.  Instead of removing outdated names, another option is to have the City restore them, then they will become current.  A few other once non existing station names are guaranteed to be preserved in the future because the City has already taken action to rename or co name areas near the subway stations

6 Av (L),

110 St stations (1), (2)(3), (B)(C),

E 143 St (6).

Restored in the future

E 177 St  (would be the 4th time MTA had to completely restore a station name they previously removed)

Honorable mention:

Continental Av (no longer on the subway map, but still in the station.)

The old names on the  were preserved recently (though will likely be removed from the stations in the far future). At one point MTA stopped removing historic names due to complaints. Lincoln and Fisk on the  are in danger of being removed next since they weren't recently renovated. Unless they want to restore Lincoln and Fisk via the City Council.

https://nypost.com/2012/10/07/subway-stations-retain-signs-listing-places-and-streets-that-no-longer-exist/

7 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

Another cut is late evening  and  , which were added in 2008. These often get cut for FasTrack or related repairs.

And the evening and weekend service. Possibly the  late night service.