B35 via Church

Yeah, that crossed my mind also (about that #55 likely having been a #51 before the fact), but to be picking up pax. before you're supposed to be picking them up, has never sat well with me.... Reeks of favoritism... But while I agree with having gotten rid of ending buses at the PJ Ferry like the old S61 did, you create the situation where #51's don't layover on the northern end of the route - doing straight (as in, layover-less) interlines with #53's & #55's on weekdays, and with the #55 on weekends (now that I'm looking at the schedules here)... Come to think of it, the 2 stints that had me in Patchogue, I did not see a #51 at all.... The only time I saw a #51 was earlier in theday, after the #58 I took pulled out of Smith Haven.... In any case though, the #53 I took up there went OOS & made the left turn onto Chereb lane to turnaround or whatever.... Crazy enough, I forgot to write the bus number down... Was hoping that said #53 would arrive back at Patchogue during my wait for the #6 after I got off the #55... So I sat inside the LIRR waiting room (train fans would've loved seeing the two diesels at the station; one was on the opposite side/track at the station, and another train (that ended at Patchogue) pulled in, not too long after I went inside.... At least it's good that the MTA opened up the waiting rooms during these frigid temperatures (I also waited inside the waiting rooms at Amityville & at Rockville Centre btw)... But yeah, as I was about to board the #6, that same #53 driver I had stepped off the bus to stretch his legs or whatever... Both buses ended up pulling out at the same time.... So yeah, I lucked out in that regard. The one thing that's still gotta get straightened out, is the situation with the bus stop signs.... When we got to Coram Plaza, I CTFU'd at the fact that they put up a fence between the sidewalk & the property, and got rid of the bus shelter as well.... That's one way to get rid of the riff-raff that used to congregate there.... At the same time though, there was no semblance of knowing that buses even stopped there!! None of those bus stop placards (which is so tacky to me) or nothing..... But throughout the day, I still saw shelters up where buses don't stop at anymore... Furthermore, it's odd that they have new bus stop signs along West st. NB in Patchogue; alongside the district court bldg. - that have the old bus route designations (S40, S54, S66, etc).... Like, what are we doing here.... Being that buses run later under the new network, I thought about prolonging the trip (by doing the #3 to the #5 to the #51 to get to the main line) after having gotten off the #6 at Whitman, but apparently I just missed the #3.... So I waited inside Whitman for a bit & eventually caught that n79... Of course I was the only one waiting for it... Of course I was the only passenger on the bus within Suffolk county.. SMH.... At least it picked up a fair amt. of pax along Manetto Hill.... I knew Indians moved out to Hicksville, but I didn't know as many also moved out to Plainview... Nobody got on or off along OCR though.... As much as I like the n79, I think it may be time to consider taking it away from Whitman & having it tap into that latent demand in Syosset....

I work in LI & no longer take public transit, but I don't miss peak direction commuting to/from Manhattan for shit.... Last time I did so was back in the early 2010's; used to do the whole to the to get to Christopher bit.... Sometimes I'd take the & walk from West 4th on a good (brisk, cold) day.....

Back on MLK jr day, I finally went out to Suffolk County.... Killed two birds with one stone, with fanning the full n70 (which I haven't done in a good minute) & trying out the first SCT route I embarked on - the #12.... Rode that to Bay Shore, where I just jumped on the first thing that pulled up in service - which was the #7.... Rode that the full way, then doubled back on (another) #7 & took that to Brentwood.... At Brentwood (the first #7 I took), we sat there for exactly 20 mins due to a driver change... All the other routes had been pulled off after one of those SCT transport cars sped up to the front of the bus out of nowhere, that contained the b/o that eventually took us up to the VA medical center.... Speaking of which, that 20 minute wait seemed to serve a dual purpose - the driver change, and the fact that buses can't layover inside the hospital facility, due to the construction/renovation going on, that has it picking up/dropping off a a temporary bus stop (nice little tent setup they did for it btw, as an attempt to protect pax. from rain & snow - although it did nothing for the cold... lol).... Unsatisfied with how the above trip got stymied (after the 2nd trip on the #7, I ended up taking the LIRR at Brentwood to Hicksville to do some NICE fanning, because.... mother nature called ), I did some SCT fanning yesterday.... On top of it, I got a free ride in the morning from Jamaica to Amityville (c/r never came up to the car that I was in, so I still have that ticket for maybe... a trip next week ).... So I ended up doing the #4 - #58 (to Riverhead) - #66 - #53 - #55 - #6 - n79 - n24 (east) - n15 (to RVC), then the LIRR, , and the B35 home.... Routes bolded, I rode the whole route of... I would bold the #55, but I can't figure out where that route ends at, on the northern end.... As soon as I crossed the street after getting off the #53, I saw a #55 in the distance... There was someone waiting for said #55 back to Patchogue, so it was the 2 of us standing there.... When we boarded the bus though, there were 2 other people already on it (one of which was some dude talking about conspiracy shit involving the Holocaust with the b/o; talking about fake or real gas chambers or some shit).... So I was like, where the hell does this thing start at? Because on the site, it supposedly starts at the PJ shopping plaza - meaning it & the #53 supposedly terminate there.... One thing I'll say right off the bat that, of the 4 rides that were over a hour long (#4, #58, #66, #6), none of them felt as long as they ended up being, time-wise.... The buses definitely move at a better pace.... Being perfectly honest though, while it definitely felt more like a cohesive network of routes (compared to the old network), I didn't feel like I was riding a public transportation system... Felt more like I was riding a private transportation system that's trying to make the jump into becoming a public transportation system.... That can be a good thing & a bad thing at the same time. Just for shits & giggles I guess, few things: At Amityville, the #4 I ended up taking was the last bus to pull out, by a significant margin.... There was a #1 on layover, but it never went in service; not sure if there was an issue with the bus or what, because I did see the b/o circling around the bus, as if something was wrong.... The only bus that left on time was actually the #10... The #2 a] arrived out of nowhere, b] left early as shit (6 mins. to be exact), and c] sped o ff, almost hitting someone crossing the street... Not sure what her problem was.... Anyway, the lady I had on the #4 left late, to stop off to use the bathroom (which I wasn't tripping about)..... Speaking of the #2, there was no way in hell I was taking an ARBOC from Amityville to Patchogue.... After having gotten off the #4 at Smith Haven though, I boarded the only bus that was standing waiting at the time (to get out the cold) - which was that #58... Which unfortunately, was also a damn ARBOC.... That ride was fu**ing brutal.... The terminal situation at Riverhead... Confusing as shit.... I didn't know what the hell anything was (as in, what route was what, as all the buses were turned off & there were no signs on any of the poles... guess they blew off in the wind or something, IDK), nor what route in what direction was leaving from where.... I had to ask her (the driver of the #58 I had) where does the #66 stop... She told me to cross the street, but mentioned something about not knowing if that's a bus stopping at the hospital or not, and to go up the last bus (there were 4 buses on that side of the street standing idle) & ask {if that was a #66}..... In the interim, this cute, thick little cookie asked "you waiting for the #62", I said "nah, the #66".... She pointed behind her bus (which was the same bus that the driver on the #58 I had, told me to go ask... problem was, no driver was there - the doors were open though).... Long story short, IDK what route that last bus in the line of 4 actually was, because the #66 I eventually took, pulled up behind that bus, from that small pocket proximate to Osborn av, proximate to the RR tracks... None of those 4 buses in question left before the #66 I ended up taking did.. Apparently, the #11 & 17 interline (there's a paper on one of the ARBOC's I saw along the way , that had a paper 11 sign on one side of the doors, and a paper 17 sign on the first window next to the door.... Same apparently goes for the #2 & the..... 77Y.... *shrugs* The #58 had the most passenger activity out of all the routes I took.... The least was easily the #53 (the trip only transported 3 pax from end-to-end - myself included).... The ride I enjoyed the most was actually the #6.... The #55 driver I had was absolutely flying down rt. 112 though!.... I would say I got lucky with the #66, but at the same time, even with the old network, it always seemed like the EB S66 had more passenger activity along the way than the WB S66... When I got off the #66 at Patchogue, I'd say there were about 20-30 people waiting for the bus back east.... I'd say the entire trip garnered about 20 people total (4 of which, myself included, got off at Patchogue).... I made the right call getting off that n15 at RVC.... I would've been screwed if I'd have rode it full to Long Beach... It'd have had me waiting over an hour for that last n33 trip back to Far Rockaway... Also, there was (IMO, what looked to be) an asylum seeker that was acting erratically.... I was already sitting at the back of the bus, so I wasn't getting up to move to another seat (like this one other dude did).... Pacing back & forth, stretching out on the seats (dude was about the same height I am; 6'3", so I know that shit was uncomfortable), continually switching seats, continually taking off his shoes, to name a few things... I'm in the back doing my number puzzles, and dude pulls out a burgundy wool hat - as if to suggest that it's up for sale ... He didn't say anything the whole time; I'm not so sure if he even knew english..... But whatever. Any questions, have at it.... Nothing else on my mind right this second that I can think of sharing

Alright, so that's where the difference lies... You'd have it approach all those medical facilities from the west (of the Hutch)... I'd still have the route run along the current Q50 up until a certain point (Jarvis); operationally severing the current Q50 into 2 complementary routes, instead of having all service run to/from Co-op (with, again, increased service... and not just completely cutting into current Q50 service to come up with this route of sorts.... The latter is what was done with the Q53 to have created the Q52, but that's neither here nor there).... That's where you mentioned it being a separate/standalone route & what not - and now I see why you say that, with having such a route go Zerega-Westchester-Waters, etc.... As far as the Bx24 goes, well in coming out with this Flushing - *Bronx Medical Centers* type of a route, not only am I not looking to create competition with the Bx24, I wasn't even thinking about the Bx24 (not in the sense that IDK that the Bx24 exists, but in the sense that the Bx24 is irrelevant to the task at hand).... The Bx24 b/w Westchester Sq. & HMC is already in competition with those HMC shuttles, so if it's any reason to (want to) can the Bx24 north of Westchester Sq., it would be for that reason.... Those shuttles do quite well up there.... I don't want to turn this into a *what should be done with the Bx24* discussion, so I'll stop here... As for where would the buses u-turn, there's a roundabout just past the security checkpoint at HMC (to access Montefiore - Hutchinson, Mercy College, etc) .... Having it cut through the (access to the) Atrium parking lot (over there by the gym; LA fitness) to get to Bassett, as I see it, would more or less defeat the purpose of even having it run up Marconi.... In having the Q18 branched, I'd increase service for the purpose of running short turns b/w Roosevelt & Metropolitan. Wait, what? Turning the Q38 into a circulator is a decent idea on what front? What need is there to connect the Corona & Rego Park spurs of the route? It isn't a situation like with the southern portion (as in, south of QB) of the route, where the Eliot & the Juniper Valley segments of the route converge to serve Middle Village ... Being that the Corona spur & the Rego Park spur is divided by the LIE, they serve the QB line at 2 different stations... The having of the Juniper Valley segment & the Eliot segment serving Middle Village in & of itself is far less necessary for the overall network than splitting the Q38.... To juxtapose the Bx18 & the Q38 I find to be quite bizarre... The Q38 shouldn't be turned into a circulator due to the proximity of the Corona terminal & the Rego Park terminal, because they currently have the Juniper Valley & the Eliot segment connecting to the at Metropolitan.... The point of a circulator, generally speaking, is to bring commuters on opposite ends and/or sides of a community/-ies, that would be typically transit deprived otherwise, to a central (major) location.... Not even counting the express routes, I'd bet you'd need more than two hands to count the amount of local bus connections that the Q38 offers from terminal to terminal..... That is proof alone that the last thing the network needs is to have the Q38 exist as a circulator - regardless of the mileage the current Q38 racks up. I'd say you don't see why the current Q38 is being split, because you're apparently being spoofed by the MTA's frugality & are coming to a conclusion that would further defend it.

,,,,nor in any more of a demand. The main issue with a mileage swap or w/e of that sort isn't even the added distance, it's the fact that demand towards PBP & Co-Op CIty from points south of Flushing doesn't remotely come close to that of the current Q44 north of Flushing, let alone an extension towards Fordham.... At that point, it's counterproductive.... The speed of a route of a direct commute people have little to no use for, is irrelevant.... If you're going to induce turnover, there's not much of a point to increase the footprint of the route in The Bronx (emanating from Jamaica) to Co-Op City... You may as well go about doing that whole, running Q44's b/w Jamaica & Flushing, and running a Flushing - Fordham route, like what's been proposed in the past {"Q94"}.....

Not only do a lot of these kids in these later generations not respect authority figures nor their elders, a lot of them simply don't value life.... And it's apparently getting worse with each passing generation.... Blank thousand yard stares; empty looks of soullessness... Nothing much that they feel like they have to look forward to (other than instant gratification & validation anyway).... I'll ease up on the psycho-analytical stuff for now & will simply say that I honestly don't know whether to feel despondent or flat out angry in reading/hearing about all these train surfing incidents as of late.... Scary/coincidental part is, I JUST got through watching a video on youtube titled "Teachers Are SICK Of Dumb Gen Alpha Kids" before I checked to see if there are any new posts made on the forum here in the past hour or so.... There's PLENTY of finger pointing at the MTA to go around, regarding other unrelated matters.... To me, this simply isn't one of them.... You can only do but so much saving people from themselves.

Utter chaos over at Queensboro Plaza with all these shuttle buses roaming about.... Saw Q93's, Q94's, Q95's, Q107's, and Q108's.... Got screwed waiting for a Brooklyn bound B62 at the temporary stop 1 block down from the normal 1st pickup stop (which is where they have some of the shuttle buses picking up & dropping off at)... So I went back to the normal 1st pickup stop, hoping that the next B62 out will pickup there.... A dispatcher asked me & this other dude what buses we were waiting for... He needed the Q100 & I wanted the B62.... Dispatcher told us we gotta walk down that way (pointing towards the temporary stops)... I then told him (the dispatcher) that I was just over there about 15 minutes ago & the last B62 out just blew by the stop... In a reassuring tone, he told me don't worry about it, I'll make sure it stops over there for ya... Nice guy.... Kind of reminded me of Norm from that old show Cheers, but that's neither here nor there... So about 3 or 4 mins. after that, the B62 I eventually got on reached the stop... But he was ALSO about to blow past the temporary stop.... I honestly believe if there weren't those 4 White ladies (1 of which was pregnant) waiting along with me, that b/o would not have slammed on the brakes & just kept on going... One of the other 3 ladies flailed her arms at the same time I was waving my metrocard in an attempt to get dude to stop.... I was going to ride it full to Downtown, but I got so disgusted, I just took it to WBP & caught the B46 & took that home (which I'm glad I did, b/c out of nowhere, I caught a migraine about 5 mins. into that B46 ride - which I'm still afflicted by as I'm typing this)..... So yeah, utter chaos & a terrible job out there with all those shuttle buses.... From the looks of things, nobody really knew what stopped & picked up where - and on top of it, just wtf was doing what,.... I mean, it's good that they've numerated the different shuttle buses (although some buses still had the "SUBWAY SHUTTLE" signage up), but it's like, it doesn't really mean too much of anything if hardly anyone knows what's doing what.... They really need to incorporate the subway bullet/colors on the destination signages for those subway shuttles - very much akin to that of what's done for the Q70.

Q31: Westchester Sq. makes for a convenient xfer point, but the problem is that it & Bronx State Hospital are in opposite directions... That's why the Bx21 backdoors to terminate at Westchester Sq. after serving Bronx State Hospital... As long as I have the route connecting to the elsewhere, I don't see not serving Westchester Sq as detrimental... Maybe I should've drawn a map, but the only connection that would be missed out on is the Bx4/4a.... it would run along the Bx21 b/w Westchester/Waters & Eastchester/Morris Park it would run along the Bx31 b/w Waters & Pelham Pkwy it would connect with the Bx8 along Westchester av, as well as at Middletown/Crosby it would run along the Bx24 along Marconi (I wouldn't have the route u-turn at the Call Center though) it would connect with the Bx40/42 at E. Tremont/Bruckner Blvd like the Q50 already does Speaking of which, the other thing I want to avoid is running the thing on E. Tremont av.... The main point of the route is to serve the bevy of medical facilities in the general area of the Bronx... Anything else is secondary... That's why I'm not overly concerned with not having it serve Westchester Sq.... Something replacing the Bx24 is a Bronx issue & quite frankly, it shouldn't take a route coming from Flushing to accomplish that Q38: I thought about ending it around Domino Park (and I do see it getting decent usage around there too), but with every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Sally trying the be the next Spielberg with all these dam indie film shoots around & about the general area (leading to all these street closures), I'm rather leery about it.... Regardless, to your point, I don't have a problem with terminating such a route at QB... I mean, I get wanting to run the Q54 & the Q59 together in Brooklyn, but not at the expense/mercy of a B62 that'd skip WBP & with the best proposed Brooklyn route thus far - The B53 </sarcasm> - Neither of which serves Williamsburg in an easterly-westerly fashion. Q67: If it's anything that I'd have terminating where they have the impending Q14 doing so, it's the Q18.... I would've liked to have seen the Q18 b/w Woodside av & the LIE branched between running along 65th pl. & 69th st, to then run down the rest of 69th st to shoot across Met. av to Fresh Pond rd.... I have always despised where/how the current Q18 terminates on the southern end of the route.... As for that proposal I had to try to make the Q67 more of a commuter route (the one I had ending on Cooper/Myrtle), I don't think I'm going to revisit it (large in part, because I would like such a route to at least connect to Woodhaven Blvd).... To sum it up, it started on Cooper/71st, then did Cooper-73rd-Cooper-80th-Metropolitan-69th-Borden.... Long story short, I didn't have it serving the .

Layover & turnaround scenarios is something I strongly believe planners flat out ignore. Lol... I wouldn't preserve ending buses in Hamilton Beach because they're overserving both Hamilton Beach & Old Howard Beach.... Quite frankly, I don't see that level of service to either branch being upheld anyway - regardless of which branch(es) trips are terminating in... If they don't leave things as they are with the current Q11 down there, I can easily see a scenario where they have alternating trips [not serving Old Howard Beach and Hamilton Beach (whether they'd have such trips ending at Pitkin, or ending somewhere in Lindenwood, or something another)] & [serving both Old Howard Beach & Hamilton Beach (with these trips ending in Old Howard Beach, as per the final plan)], if they're going to keep those proposed service levels.... I don't disagree... Just stupid all the way around to stub the thing like that. This isn't to say I necessarily support it, but I do understand why they'd want to cut the B46 back to Woodhull (even moreso than them wanting to cut the Q24 back to B'way Junction.... again).... However, no parts of that reason should ever be to justify a route like that B53.... I'm of the firm belief that they really/ultimately want all B46 service (local & SBS) ending at Woodhull.... While they still got the B47 at Woodhull for now anyway, I still can't get over their proposing to end the B15 at Montrose , of all places... For the sake of discussion I guess, regarding your last statement there, while I'm not all that wild about a Broadway route, I wouldn't so much mind something running b/w Woodhull Hospital & B'way Junction.... The primary purpose would of course be for mere coverage, with the secondary purpose being for taking the Q24 & B47 off Broadway - over taking the B46 away from WBP & the B15 from Woodhull as the MTA proposed in that Brooklyn network revamp... Yep... Very strange way to break up the current Q30... Not in favor of that impending Q75 in the slightest; not sure which I despise more - it, or the Q88 proposed in the previous draft... If it's anything I'd propose changing when it comes to HHE/LNP, it's to have the Q12 & the Q30 both end there somehow - I've always thought there was value in connecting those 2 routes.... The hell with extending the Q12 to LIRR Great Neck; that would significantly compromise the route for the sake of an exponential increase in ridership (similar to my sentiment regarding extending the Q44 to Fordham)... But yeah, if it came down to these 3 ways of serving the eastern portion of HHE, I'm 100% a proponent of doing so by way of the current Q30.... So I see. When it comes to serving Queens patrons, I'm not considering the n1/n6 because they're not open door services in Queens... Queens patrons proximate to the county line aren't remotely taking n1's & n6's to circumnavigate taking Q2's.... The reason I don't take issue with the impending Q82, is because I see it as more of (but not completely) a complement to the Q2 - as opposed to a supplement of it (which I'm of the belief is the basis of the point of contention/disapproval)... With the Q110 ending up being stripped from Hempstead av, the Q2 would be overburdened a bit (if it were to be the only route serving Hempstead av)... Considering all the stops being removed from Hollis av, dwell times at the remaining stops are going to significantly increase; the Q2 carries heavy along Hollis av.... Even being that the Q2 would be more frequent, I think riders (Hempstead av) will increasingly grow to be fed up with what could potentially happen along Hollis av... This is where the Q82 comes in..... The real question is, how many/what percent of Hempstead av. area patrons are seeking 179th , in comparison to Jamaica Center.... I wouldn't know if the latter comes all that close to the former, given the amount of folks typically gunning for Q2's over Q110's out there... Gun to my head decision, for the sake of running an MTA route to North Shore Hospital, I'd just extend the Q30 the 1 stop & call it a day.... I would not run a service like the QT34 all day, for fear of a severe lack of total ridership..... Lastly, while running the Q110 to 257th is a great contingency plan to avoid dealing with NIMBY's, I don't think they're nearly as much a problem/as potent like they were when it came down to the suggestion of running the Q79 to LIRR Floral Park back then..... I know its taboo to talk about on these forums, but while it's still predominantly old money Whites out there, new money Asians have been & still are snatching up property in that central western part of Nassau County; that whole Floral Park - New Hyde Park - North New Hyde Park - Garden City Park region.... Unlike those old money Whites of yesteryear, the Indian population are making their presence known on public transit too - whether it's on the n22, n24, or on the LIRR Main Line at Merillon, New Hyde Park, and Floral Park itself.... I just wish they had the Q39 run with the Q67 between 55th av/58th st & 48th/Laurel Hill. If they can catch a 1-2-3-4-5 trip (meaning, the trips from PBP that serve section 1 first & section 5 last, before running back down to PBP), that would be pretty damn savvy.... I never paid attention if anyone's actually doing that. So you don't think it deserved the old S60 treatment huh .... Jokes aside, to be perfectly honest, IDK what those patrons want when it comes to public bus service... I never got the sense they were all that fond of the Q22a back when that existed... IDK if it's a case of not wanting buses running through their area full time, or at all (like out in Breezy Point)..... Running Q52's in particular through there though just seems wildly excessive - even given the general idea of wanting to extend that route to Far Rockaway.... I'm not even talking about anything relating to turning radii.. To give an example of what I mean, I couldn't imagine running the Bx5 through an area like Country Club... IDK if there was ever any truth to it, but supposedly at one point, they had artics running on the Bx13... I would've liked to have seen that - better yet, rode on it. The impending Q38 (via Penelope, 63rd dr, etc.).

Because they don't want to piss off the pigeons anymore than they already have. (as an aside, Newkirk on the Brighton line used to be a haven for those SOB's) The scary part is, he's not the first person I've seen suggest that. If one of those things were to fall off a moving train while I'm waiting on the platform & gets me right in the eye, best believe I'm suing the piss out of them.... You don't try to deter stupidity by also doing something stupid.... Two wrongs is said to not make something called a right.

Those n15's at Mineola are doing nothing more than taking up space (from the n40).... Just like that n22x experiment with having it go nonstop b/w RFM & Hicksville, these n15's to Mineola aren't working.... People are still gunning for the n40 for Mineola service at HTC & the n15's that aren't going to RFM are tanking at HTC... I'd go as far as to say if they're not going to have some n40 trips serve County Seat Dr, then they should get rid of service to those county office bldg's altogether.... Virtually nobody takes buses to/from there like they used to, back in the 90's or so.... The n15 trips they got running to Mineola may as well be Long Beach - HTC short trips.....

Hell, I actually assume the opposite.... E/g - if a EB B35 does the turnaround to layover alongside the daycare center along New Lots, I assume it's going to go OOS afterwards.... It's not until that bus powers on & displays Sunset Park 1 av or "MCDONALD" (like it's a neighborhood or something... I always get tripped out by that) that I start motioning towards the bus.... I SMH when people start motioning towards the bus when the bus powers on, when the signage says not in service & the thing speeds off past the stop.... The acceleration of a previously idle bus at a terminal moving towards a bus stop & that of speeding past one, are stark.....

Well, frequency-wise, they are more reliable. Yeah, the B9 gets more ridership at Kings Plaza than is being given credit for.... However, you're conflating frequency & reliability here - While the B3 & the B9 have higher frequencies than the B2, the B2 is more reliable than the B3 & B9.... The B9 bunches like shit (which is obviously not how service is scheduled to run like) & the B3 slogs along Av. U with as much passenger activity per stop that route gets - which reliability is being negatively affected with both of those situations.... OTOH, you can almost set your clock to when the B2 will arrive. It is interesting though that commuters in general tend to use the term reliability in regards to when buses/trains arrive when THEY want them to (or think they should arrive), instead of when they're supposed to show up (as per the paddle<>schedule)... The theory would be a little more plausible if the proposed B40 was a local (as if to say, we have no skip-stop service whatsoever, while the Kings Plaza branch has the B41XT)... Regardless, I wouldn't reduce the truncating of the Bergen Beach branch to Empire to a case of mere envy - especially when we're talking about coverage losses.

Due NB, over the years, boardings have gotten significantly lower north of Empire... Due SB from Cadman Plaza, buses are generally close to a seated load before buses hit Empire.... So the issue isn't that folks aren't taking buses to/from Downtown... I mean, if it were more about pushing people onto the subway, they a] wouldn't have proposed that B41XT or whatever, b] wouldn't (still) propose as much service going to/from Downtown with the proposed B41 local & B41XT combined (despite doing away with directly connecting Bergen Beach & Downtown Brooklyn), and quite frankly c] would've proposed much more service for that B40..... My thing is though, even given that B2/B100 combination, that lane where the current B2 & B41 terminates at at Kings Plaza still isn't going to be enough space for the amt. of service they propose for the B41 local & the B41XT.... Furthermore, while of course they use that station, current B41 riders aren't "rush"-ing to get to Prospect Park subway.... The rush concept best fits for patrons south of the Junction, trying to get to the Junction for the .... But of course, they're not going to run dinkies b/w [Kings Plaza and/or Bergen Beach] & the Junction throughout the day.... To sum it up, no Flatbush av. service should be ending at Prospect Park on any regularized basis....

Q31: Yeah, it can be given another number or whatever, but the one thing I wouldn't have a route of sorts do, is serve Westchester Square... Waste of time, for the intended purpose of the route AFAIC. Q36: When you started the comment by saying "Quite honestly, if that's the proposed routing why bother serving Hillside Avenue.", I'm taking that to mean you're referencing the whole route - as if to say, why is it going Hillside-Springfield-Jamaica-LNP, instead of staying on Jamaica av all the way to LNP; like you were trying to preserve it serving the length of LNP (hence my previous reply)..... In any case, given that you're talking about a local/LTD setup along Jamaica av, the only question I really have here is, where would you have the Q36 ending on the eastern end of the route? 257th/Jericho Tpke, LIRR LNP, LIRR Floral Park, or something else? Q38: An extension to the from Middle Village in general, would supplement a significant amount of folks that currently use the Q54 to/from Brooklyn (which, given how unreliable the thing is, could use some consistent help).... Ending it at Lorimer subway specifically would not also connect it to the , but would (IMO) be more of a viable area to terminate a bus route, over, say, having it terminate at Graham like the old B18 or like an older rendition of the B13 used to.... Instead, buses could layover on either side of the triangle (Meeker/Metropolitan)... So to answer your question, buses (from Fresh Pond/Metropolitan) would continue on Metropolitan - to Grand - to Union - back to Metropolitan, to terminate.... I wouldn't subject buses to the more eastern portion of the Brooklyn portion of Metropolitan.... Too much truck traffic over there around Morgan, specifically.... Q67: Could've sworn I had a map for it, but I had one rendition/idea of it running to the Forest View Crescent apts. (this was before they barred buses terminating on the same side of the apartments along Union Tpke), and another rendition/idea of it running to that area where Cooper runs into Myrtle... I'll redraw the latter when I get home later.... But as for that QT77, that shit screamed potential & utter failure on multiple levels.... Q82: I don't entirely disagree with the sentiment, but I just want to touch on the n6 point right quick (are they really running n6 short turns to UBS? wow, what a waste of resources).... The n6 won't factor into anything in this regard.... It obviously doesn't run inside that terminal (where the Q2/Q110 currently ends) to pick up those folks.... It'll also be no different than the phenomenon with the Q43/n22 by the county line... Virtually nobody in Queens walks back to catch a Jamaica bound n22 at Cherry lane... Everybody & their mammas all pile up at that first stop of the WB Q43 - even though there's only a short block difference or so between that last WB stop in Nassau on the n22 & the first Q43 pickup stop.... The difference in distance between Hempstead/225th (which is technically the 2nd WB pickup stop of the current Q2/Q110) & the last n6 WB stop in Nassau is greater/longer....

They were too preoccupied with combining parts of the Q23 with parts of the Q46... Some of those QT proposals featured some very very strange combinations.... Not that I ever wanted the Q23 running inside there, but it looks like we're gonna end up getting the Q50 running in there instead

Yeah, I know what the purpose of the routes were; that was never in question..... Like I said, once I read that you needed those cards in able to board the thing, I immediately got disinterested.... Looking at the routings, they both looked like they'd be pretty good rides from a fanning perspective too.... I can agree with @Kingsbridgeviewer382's point though; whatever amount of b/o's that were "enforcing" that disinformation, were doing so to perhaps keep people off of the buses... No different than some of these express bus b/o's that were putting up the not in service signs (especially around that same time; 2021) riding around empty & what not....

Sounds like that could be (another) reason why I always saw those B98v's literally empty.

Don't know if it actually was or wasn't (real/true)..... I would question the legality of that as well; being denied a public service because you didn't have that card.... Crazy... What I will say is that, if it was infact the case, I'm surprised some opportunist actively seeking to come up off lawsuits didn't take advantage of that.... Then again, you gotta wonder how many people in this city even know about the B98v & Q98v to begin with.

Send the Q72 inside LGA.... Send the Q23 inside LGA.... Combine the Q32 & Q33 (back when that ran inside LGA, serving terminal B & C)... Don't miss those age-old discussions at all. The Q72 was never the most reliable route per se, but it ran way more smoother when it didn't run inside LGA.... Being perfectly honest, I miss when it stopped short there at Ditmars... That route is insufferable to fan, so I can only imagine how daily commuters feel about having to take/rely on that route.

For me, it's wanting to detach the 102nd/103rd/104th portion of the route with the 108th st. portion of the route.... In terms of filling gaps, the one on 99th always bothered me far more than the one along 108th.... if there was a subway station at 108th/Roosevelt, I'd end the Q23 right there... But realizing how much of a dud the Q23 is in East Elmhurst IMO, I started thinking of ways the thing could be more useful in/for that neighborhood (hence, the shooting across Astoria from 108th to 94th, and up 94th to eventually end at 95th/Ditmars)... The only segment of the impending Q14 that I concur with, is the stint b/w Astoria Blvd & QB. If you're trying to implicate that there's a large amt. of people from North Corona seeking Forest Hills, it's simply not the case.... The thing about the Q23's ridership is that it's well spread out along 108th, before ever turning off for Corona Plaza.... Healthy mix of short distance riding & intermediate distance riding... It isn't like contemplating detaching the area around Corona Plaza from Forest Hills being a make or break decision.... Exactly.

On the drive home, I would constantly see the vaccine route for Brooklyn along ENY av; the B98v or whatever.... It went to Medgar Evers College.... Once I read that you had to have a vaccination card to board the thing, I immediately withdrew any interest in wanting to fan the thing.... Matter fact, I would scowl every time I saw it.

7+ year old post that I haven't wavered from, not one bit. I would alter the Q48 where it would serve the length of 23rd av. What I wouldn't have happen is the running of the Q48 inside the airport..... Was never fond of a Flushing - LGA route; the thing performs infinitely better as the Flushing - North Corona link anyway... Airport usage is too inconsistent on the thing..... The East Elmhurst portion of the route would actually be enhanced, compared to the current Q48.... I posted a google map link in the same part of the post you extracted the snippet you're replying to from... Albeit in an inactive layer (because I wanted to portray how I would handle a Q23 split of sorts, in comparison to what the MTA has planned for the Q23 & the impending Q14), I also drew up what I would do with the Q48.... Lol.... For whatever the reason, those riders up there take Q48's to 111th more than they do the Q33 to 74th... I don't see them exactly missing having the Q33 run up there (nor do I see them valuing the Q47 any more or less, when that change to the network ends up happening).... As far as that question goes, having the Q23 (and my version of their impending Q14, which I dubbed the "Q73" on the google map I referenced in the above part of the post) terminate at Ditmars/95th really has nothing to do with a worthy exchange (considering the impending Q33 running to LGA Terminal A & my suggesting of having the Q47 terminate with the Q69 at Astoria/82nd) or whatever... It has everything to do with how useless I see the current Q23 north of Astoria Blvd.... Ever since they took the Q33 out of the airport, the thing's been rather dead in East Elmhurst.

Q4: They had buses terminating at the NE corner of Linden & Elmont Rd.... That layover space along Linden you're referencing is across the street from where they had it terminating... I'm of the belief that they second guessed having buses terminate on that side of Linden - which unfortunately put the kibosh on the whole extension. Q7: As long as they kept it covering the rest of Rockaway Blvd east of Cross Bay, I'm straight..... The flaw I saw with the Cedarhurst extension was the terminal itself... They had it terminating on Burnside b/w Rockaway Tpke & Lawrence Pkwy.... That would've been unmanageable.... The current Far Rockaway bound Q114 stop at Buena Vista/Rockaway Tpke. (which is one block north) should've been the last dropoff stop instead, with it going on layover along Lawrence Pkwy (if anything), to then having the first NB/WB pickup stop on Lawrence Pkwy/Buena Vista (before the turn)... Q11: What I don't quite get about this take is that you bring up the footbridge as an argument to not solely have buses terminating in Old Howard Beach (operating via Hamilton Beach), yet you want to preserve the current branching of the route.... Ridership on both branches being low would be an argument for having every trip serve both Old Howard Beach & Hamilton Beach.... The footbridge argument would actually be an argument for eliminating service to Hamilton Beach.... Be there as it may, I have no issue with trips terminating on the Old Howard Beach side only, nor running via Hamilton Beach (doing away with having anything terminate on that end).... With the having of it running via Hamilton Beach though, I'd say the stops they should've gotten rid of (unlike a lot of the stops being slated for discontinuation borough-wide), are those NB stops along 104th, along the railing.... The only real concern I have with the southern portion of the impending route is the serving of Lindenwood after serving Old Howard Beach & Hamilton Beach.... Q14: I simply think they got hesitant; not wanting to risk running another route along that part of Fresh Pond (if they think those Q98's are gonna be breezing along that part of Fresh Pond (south of Metropolitan), they got another thing coming).... Q15: Yeah, the current Q15/a setup is as good as you're gonna get... Glad to see that couplet doing as well as it has been, despite (some) Whitestone patrons' bitching regarding the routing up there over the years... Breaking that up to have [this impending Q15 terminate at Clintonville/7th like the former Q14 did] & [a ridiculously forced ass rush route like this impending Q62] comes off as tone deaf to me.... Q22: Rockaway/Burnside as a terminal for that QT22 would've worked out - To be a stub.... The ideal move is to send it up to 5 Towns (which is what they had the Q22 in the previous draft doing)... The problem with that though, is there's no place to end a bus route over there... Forget about having buses on layover on Rockaway Tpke, and with 5 Towns apparently gaining back popularity, there's literally no space inside the parking lot to accommodate public buses (like, with suburban area malls & what not....) Q23: It's not that it's a problem conceptually, it's that it's going to loom problematic logistically... Folks think the Q29 situation at 82nd is hectic, ending a bus at Corona Plaza will be worse.... With that said, I agree with having the Q23 be the 108th st route.... However, I would run it to Ditmars/94th (well, 95th) at the current Q33 terminal (they have the impending Q47 replacing the Q33 over there, but I would truncate the Q47 to where it would terminate with the Q69 at Astoria Blvd/82nd)... Regarding the current Q23 north of Astoria Blvd, I'd continue to have (a modified version of) the current Q48 serve that part of East Elmhurst.... The current Q48 tends to do better than the current Q23 up there.... In any event, if I were to formulate a new route from the 102nd/103rd/104th st portion of the current Q23, I'd agree with having it serve National & 99th to/from Lefrak like this impending Q14 would - but I wouldn't bother running such a route past QB - especially along Eliot of all things.... The way I would handle this whole Q14/Q23 bit, is more or less this.... Q24: Interesting.... So what would have you concurring with that truncated Q24? Q30: The impending Q30 will still end at LIRR Jamaica (the issue with the Q30 is on the opposite end of the route, the having of all trips end at QCC).... It's that Q75 they got ending at Briarwood subway. Q36: That QT34 would've made for a nice little peak direction route, but that thing would've carried a shit ton of air during middays... They actually had this thing running overnight hourly hawks also.... Anyway, So I take it that you'd have buses ending at Jamaica/257th? Or would you run them down to LIRR Floral Park with the impending Q110? Q39: The impending Q39 is being slightly altered on the northern/western end..... After hitting Jackson, buses would parallel/take on the current B62 terminal & layover scenario.... The current routing, if you need QBP, is a PITA.... Fully agree with the change. Q50: I agree with the general sentiment.... I've never stated this publicly up until now, but I sincerely believe that the Q50 should end right there at the Peartree shopping Plaza - and (lol) use the very depot it runs out of, as a layover & to turnaround .... Compared to the other Co-op routes, it's very *meh* in section 5.... Almost every single time I've taken it from section 5, passenger activity significantly increases once it hits that shopping plaza - even moreso than at Bartow/Co-op City blvd..... Q52: If you're talking about running buses along Beach Channel Drive north of Seagirt, that's Wavecrest.... Bayswater is the area the old Q22a used to serve, north of that aforementioned part of Beach Channel Drive.

Great, so..... What's the actual change? Buses have been doing that shit for at least what, 2 years now.....