Question about the Lex Av Line

[Guest MTA Bus]

Why is every station between 14 St - Union Sq and Brooklyn Bridge - City Hall (except Canal St) off center. Every time I ride the or uptown, by time the uptown platform ends, the downtown platform begins.

[3rd Avenue El]

Why is every station between 14 St - Union Sq and Brooklyn Bridge - City Hall (except Canal St) off center. Every time I ride the or uptown, by time the uptown platform ends, the downtown platform begins.

 

the reason for that is because when the stations first opened they were for short car trains but when the trains were expanded to 10 cars the stations had to be expanded. some of those stations are off center either because there avoiding a water main sewer line or theres a switch in the track. they are also off center because once out of 42nd street the lex line does not run under lex avenue it runs under park avenue. the stations could be off center because if they were on center there exits would not be on a sidewalk. the exits would be in the middle of the street. sometimes stations are off center to prevent disasters from occuring. one platform might be further up north so if a southbound train derails the cars derail in a tunnel and dont hit the other platform.

 

 

 

 

but who knows thats my theory? B):confused::confused:

[Abba]

This is not only Lex .I've seen it at Hoyt street Brooklyn.I sure there are other places too.

[Buddy]

This is not only Lex .I've seen it at Hoyt street Brooklyn.I sure there are other places too.

e.g.

72nd on the IRT west side

42nd/PA on the 8th Ave

[Bus Guy]

Simple

 

A: Some platforms were built offset so they could cover more streets eg: entrances on more then the st the station is named after

 

B: When platforms were extend the tunnel was X wide but with the platforms are Y wide (more then X wide) so they had to expand offset to each other to fit in X space

[EE Broadway Local]

I think 42d Street was built offset for the future Port Authority Bus Terminal.

e.g.

72nd on the IRT west side

42nd/PA on the 8th Ave

[3rd Avenue El]

34th street on the and lines was built offset because of penn station. with the regional rail lines so close to the platform the station was built off set to fit inside the massive complex and to access madison square garden

[Trainmaster5]

34th street on the and lines was built offset because of penn station. with the regional rail lines so close to the platform the station was built off set to fit inside the massive complex and to access madison square garden

 

Madison Square Garden wasn't located at 33rd St-Pennsylvania Station when the IRT 7th Ave line was built. Check your facts before posting.

 

To the O.P. check the street grid above the line with any map besides the subway map. From south of Union Square the line travels under Fourth Ave, not Park Ave South, which is why you have so many curves between Astor Place and the Brooklyn Bridge station. The original station entrances and platforms roughly correspond to the cross streets above them and the curves on Fourth Ave itself.

[3rd Avenue El]

really? but the bus map of manhattan says the lex line runs down park avenue south. but it actually goes down 4th avenue? and about the 34th street thing i must have been confused but i do know the offset at 34th was so the station could fit and access more streets

[TwoTimer]

really? but the bus map of manhattan says the lex line runs down park avenue south. but it actually goes down 4th avenue? and about the 34th street thing i must have been confused but i do know the offset at 34th was so the station could fit and access more streets

 

Park Av S only from south of Grand Central to roughly south of the old 18th st station. Then a jog off to the left down twisting 4th avenue, which turns into Lafayette street in the Astor Place station. Lafayette st gives way to Centre St around Spring, where it stays until Brooklyn Bridge. From there, it has a short run on Park Row after a slight curve, turns onto Broadway just north of Fulton, and stays on Broadway until Bowling Green.

[Trainmaster5]

Park Av S only from south of Grand Central to roughly south of the old 18th st station. Then a jog off to the left down twisting 4th avenue, which turns into Lafayette street in the Astor Place station. Lafayette st gives way to Centre St around Spring, where it stays until Brooklyn Bridge. From there, it has a short run on Park Row after a slight curve, turns onto Broadway just north of Fulton, and stays on Broadway until Bowling Green.

 

Thanks a million for the detailed rundown TwoTimer. I didn't want to get into the below Astor part because it might confuse the O.P. but you nailed it. That's why I tried to point the poster to Google maps.

[MikeGerald]

Under the original 1811 Street Grid Plan, the plan that gave Manhattan its basic line up of streets and avenues, Park Avenue equals Fourth Avenue. However when this plan was adopted, there were no subways or elevated lines, no Lexington or Madison Avenues, no Central Park, etc. In essence there were changes to the details of the grand plan over time.

 

Fourth Avenue and Park Avenue South are basically the same thing in Manhattan for the most part, however there are short segments that are labeled Fourth Avenue. Park Avenue gained its name because in the area north of 42nd Street - it was literally a wide long park along the whole avenue as it traveled northward. Those parks were created to hide the rail road tracks that were below the avenue. While Park Avenue is considered to be "Fourth Avenue" nobody calls it that, especially as one travels northward in Manhattan and East Harlem. That is why the "numbers" of the avenues seem to jump from Third Avenue to Fifth Avenue.

 

The Lexington Avenue subway is labeled "Lexington Avenue" because that was the extension of the original IRT subway north-bound in Manhattan. Just as the Seventh Avenue line is called that - because that segment is the extension of that subway line south-ward in Manhattan. When the original IRT subway was changed from its overall basic "S" line configuration in Manhattan to more of an "H" configuration - the new segments needed to be called something, so they were named by the major street that they ran under.

 

These new sections of tunnels had stations that were the proper train lengths so that they did not need to be extended as much as the "older stations" of the original IRT stations. In the original IRT subway, local trains were 6 cars in length, while express trains were 8 cars in length, and the purely local stations were sized in that manner. This explains the South Ferry station, 145th Street-Lenox Avenue, and the other original stations. It is only because of the 10-car train types that are used in recent decades to today, where only 5 cars can open their doors onto the un-extended stations of South Ferry and 145th Street, it is because of the position of the conductors, train zoning, etc.

 

Just another point - while Seventh Avenue did exist on the street grid from 14th Street up to Central Park, the section below 14th Street, named Seventh Avenue South did not exist until the IRT subway was extended south-ward. That is why so many streets in that area in relation to the subway line is at an angle, the subway line carved its way through many blocks.

 

Hope this helps.

Mike

[asidrane]

When the platforms were extended, some were extended to the north, while others were extended to the south. They chose the direction to extended in based on what would be easiest to do. This is why the platforms do not line up from end to end within the stations.

[3rd Avenue El]

can anybody tell me why the folowing train stations on the lexington line are only 12 subway cars apart. on recent trips i have noticed that the following stations are about 12 subway cars from each other:

 

city hall to fulton street (not sure about this one i think the space between them is like three trains length im not sure some one tell me)

 

fulton street to wall street

 

wall street to bowling green.

 

i swear one time i looked northbound to wall street from bowling green next to the northbound track tunnel and i could see wall street and the people moving at that station. im exaggerating but the stations are so close you can yell to the people at wall street. can anyone explain why these stations are so close?

 

 

(im still not sure about the city hall one)

[Law]

can anybody tell me why the folowing train stations on the lexington line are only 12 subway cars apart. on recent trips i have noticed that the following stations are about 12 subway cars from each other:

 

city hall to fulton street (not sure about this one i think the space between them is like three trains length im not sure some one tell me)

 

fulton street to wall street

 

wall street to bowling green.

 

i swear one time i looked northbound to wall street from bowling green next to the northbound track tunnel and i could see wall street and the people moving at that station. im exaggerating but the stations are so close you can yell to the people at wall street. can anyone explain why these stations are so close?

 

 

(im still not sure about the city hall one)

Like previously mentioned, those stations operated when trains were much shorter, with platform extensions, the stations got too close to each other, and remember you're talking about stations in lower Manhattan, where the stations are extremely dense. Same goes for IRT West.

[PATCOman]

Wall Street and Bowling Green have offset platforms.

[MikeGerald]

The Bowling Green platform for the Lexington Avenue trains (both uptown and downtown) until 1977-8, was the single center platform, while the South Ferry Shuttle used the short platform nearest the original entrance to the station.

 

When the station was enlarged and renovated circa 1977-8, the additional side uptown platform was added to the station, as well as a larger lower mezzanine that connected all of the platforms, and two new entrances. With the uptown platform off-set by 1-2 car lengths, the conductors had to be reminded about which side to open the train doors.

 

Mike

[EE Broadway Local]

According to a 1904 book I have:

"Beginning near the intersection of Broadway and Park Row, one of the routes of the railroad extends under Park Row, Centre Street, New Elm Street, Elm Street, Lafayette Place, Fourth Avenue (beginning at Astor Place), Park Avenue, 42d Street, and Broadway to 125th Street, where it passes over Broadway by viaduct to 133d Street, thence under Broadway again to and under Eleventh Avenue to Fort George, where it comes to the surface again at Dyckman Street and continues by viaduct over Naegle Avenue, Amsterdam Avenue, and Broadway to Bailey Avenue at the Kingsbridge station of the New York And Putnam Railroad, crossing the Harlem Ship Canal on a double deck drawbridge. The length of this route is 13.50 miles, of which about 2 miles are on viaduct. At the City Hall, there is a loop under the Park."

[BNQtrain3912]

Like previously mentioned, those stations operated when trains were much shorter, with platform extensions, the stations got too close to each other, and remember you're talking about stations in lower Manhattan, where the stations are extremely dense. Same goes for IRT West.

 

does this concept apply to beverly road and cortelyou road on the q line in brooklyn???...because they are not offset

[PATCOman]

IIRC, Cortelyou is offset.