NX Express Posted August 27, 2012 Share #2176 Posted August 27, 2012 Due to a stalled train at brighton beach northbound trains are unable to pass and a q train had a power failure north of brighton beach Southbound is fine. what would you do? If I understood you correctly that you mean that no northbound trains can pass Brighton Beach: No trains between Kings Hwy and Brighton Beach. The last stop on most southbound trains is Kings Hwy. Those trains that proceed to Coney Island become northbound trains. NEXT 6 Av & 59 St is flooded. Reroute: Note: All lines must have same tph to Manhattan as before. Bonus: the switches at Lex/59 are unusable as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2177 Posted August 28, 2012 NEEEEEXT: The 4th Avenue Line is impassable b/w 36th Street to Atlantic Avenue. Shuttle buses would be logical, but there would be TOO much traffic and too many people. But i would break down and provide them, My plan mirrors NX Express. suspended trains along Brighton Express . They would loop around Coney Island and make stops until 36th st and reverse direction. There would be an shuttle from 36th st to Coney Island as well as a shuttle from Bay Ridge to 36th st. I wish they would repair those express tracks on Brighton.... But I would provide buses from 36th to Atlantic. They would run along both 3rd and 4th av. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2178 Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) Brooklyn, what you fail to understand is that running a few TPH to Manhattan is better than none at all. As far as crowding goes, running the at 20 TPH to Atlantic Avenue is basically no better than zero...Those same passengers will crowd on another train to Manhattan. Same with the ; if you cut it to Atlantic Avenue, it's not like those riders suddenly disappear. They can either get on a , , , or train. It wouldn't matter if you ran a million TPH on the if the didn't take people to their destinations. We'd still be dealing with the SAME low amount of TPH to Manhattan. I think that the real problem is that there isn't enough capacity in the Montague St tunnel period for ridership. It doesn't matter which trains you send through it or which ones you choose to cut back. Edited August 28, 2012 by TheSubwayStation 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NX Express Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2179 Posted August 28, 2012 The thing is, at Atlantic there are at least the to provide extra Manhattan-bound service. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2180 Posted August 28, 2012 TheSubwayStation, I understand what you are saying and your larger argument about our subway's infrastructure. But that's not what the argument is about. I believe that the Broadway line (in Manhattan and Downtown BK) was designed POORLY, but there is nothing really that can be done to address that. It is hard to understand some of the BMT routes when you look at them in isolation. But when you look at the history, it will make sense because of the competition with rival train companies. The express tracks on sixth av were built later on after the local. And if the bridge is out, you're done--no real options. The switching and signaling SUCK. But I want you to understand my NARROW argument. I was making a very narrow and specific argument, based on my experiences and what I know about the MTA signaling, communication, ridership patters, etc. That argument was a continuation of the thread topic. And my point was also that it would not be a "few" less TPH---It would be a significant number. B and Q trains are PACKED. Forget about the D. The N is a little better, but there is still significant ridership (we're talking about Brooklyn here). There is no way those TPH you suggested would work. There would be the TPH, but just on TWO LINES through the tunnel--no more. I chose the and the because this would present the fewest systemwide difficulties. People along West End can transfer at New Utrecht, 36th and Atlantic for Manhattan bound trains. You would still have service to Astoria and Queens Blvd. If 4th Av riders really needed 6th Av service, they could transfer at 4th av or Jay st Metrotech. Or they could simply take the and for certain stretches. Listen, I hear what you are saying. If I had the power to rebuild the Broadway line, I would have four tracked it in Lower Manhattan from Canal to Dekalb Av....there would be need to go over the bridge. I would have express stops at Whitehall and City Hall (then 14th st). Instead of the bridge, the B and D would have a tunnel (that the Culver line would have access to for emergencies). That would take care of these service issues, for sure. People here would call this "foaming"(right??) but if I had the power to do these things, I would. But the system is what it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2181 Posted August 28, 2012 Dear god what has this thread turned into. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2182 Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) @ Brooklyn, I see what you're saying about the problems with the way the BMT was designed. I didn't say that the Brighton Line would only have a "few" fewer TPH; I said that a few TPH to Manhattan (10 TPH) is better than a lot of TPH (20 TPH) to Atlantic Avenue. The real problem is that we've got five lines worth of ridership, and only the capacity to fit three lines (and you say two lines) into Manhattan. I've realized that no matter how we route the trains, we'll still have the same number of riders crowding onto the same number of trains. I guess you could make the argument that terminating trains at Atlantic Av forces people onto the IRT (and thus reduces crowding on the BMT), but it's not like the IRT has that much room to spare either. The fact remains that there isn't enough capacity to meet demand without the Manhattan Bridge. I learned something today. Dear god what has this thread turned into. A discussion. Edited August 28, 2012 by TheSubwayStation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2183 Posted August 28, 2012 The real problem is that we've got five lines worth of ridership, and only the capacity to fit three lines (and you say two lines) into Manhattan. I've realized that no matter how we route the trains, we'll still have the same number of riders crowding onto the same number of trains. I guess you could make the argument that terminating trains at Atlantic Av forces people onto the IRT (and thus reduces crowding on the BMT), but it's not like the IRT has that much room to spare either. The fact remains that there isn't enough capacity to meet demand without the Manhattan Bridge. That's exactly my point of contention--there's room for only two lines rather than three. You've summarized my argument well. I simply chose the and based on where both of them go and ridership reach. Yes, you have five lines and signaling that isn't up to par. They might even be able to squeeze a few more trains on the and . But you are absolutely correct. Without the bridge, there will be TREMENDOUS problems for the BMT in Brooklyn. We got a small taste of that a couple weeks ago (even the was affected). I can only imagine if and when NYC's population reaches 10 million. One day I hope to be in a position to make policy changes. Dear god what has this thread turned into. LOL. We were discussing the merits of particular service changes and what they would mean according to a scenario presented. It was on topic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NX Express Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2184 Posted August 28, 2012 There's room for three (slightly reduced) lines, which the , , and satisfy (no, that's not a typo, the B is just relabeled as a Q and rerouted). NEXT 6 Av & 59 St is flooded. Reroute: Note: All lines must have same tph to Manhattan as before. Bonus: the switches at Lex/59 are unusable as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alejr88 Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2185 Posted August 28, 2012 trains run via the line from West 4 Street to Roosevelt Avenue. trains run express Canal-59 Streets. trains run via 63 Street from 57/7 to 36 Street QUEENS. trains run from 42 Street to Stillwell Avenue. split in two sections: 1. Ditmars Blvd. to Queensboro Plaza (transfer to the and take it to Times Square for & service.) 2. Whitehall St. to Stillwell Avenue via 4 Ave local. I did this of the top of my head... Next: A bomb scare near the 7th Avenue Station . This affects these two lines and the Brooklyn IRT. If you are planning to reroute the BMT Brighton lines, it will also affect the and the . What would you do? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreeddekalbL Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2186 Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) trains run via the line from West 4 Street to Roosevelt Avenue. trains run express Canal-59 Streets. trains run via 63 Street from 57/7 to 36 Street QUEENS. trains run from 42 Street to Stillwell Avenue. split in two sections: 1. Ditmars Blvd. to Queensboro Plaza (transfer to the and take it to Times Square for & service.) 2. Whitehall St. to Stillwell Avenue via 4 Ave local. I did this of the top of my head... Next: A bomb scare near the 7th Avenue Station . This affects these two lines and the Brooklyn IRT. If you are planning to reroute the BMT Brighton lines, it will also affect the and the . What would you do? Q train via the N express and B train via the D express(all northbound) all trains that are already going north on the brighton line terminate and proceed back south at prospect park Edited August 28, 2012 by BreeddekalbL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Express Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2187 Posted August 28, 2012 Q train via the N express and B train via the D express(all northbound) all trains that are already going north on the brighton line terminate and proceed back south at prospect park You forgot the . But I like the via the . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2188 Posted August 28, 2012 There's room for three (slightly reduced) lines, which the , , and satisfy (no, that's not a typo, the B is just relabeled as a Q and rerouted). NEXT 6 Av & 59 St is flooded. Reroute: Note: All lines must have same tph to Manhattan as before. Bonus: the switches at Lex/59 are unusable as well. Word play, but that's ok. trains run via the line from West 4 Street to Roosevelt Avenue. trains run express Canal-59 Streets. trains run via 63 Street from 57/7 to 36 Street QUEENS. trains run from 42 Street to Stillwell Avenue. split in two sections: 1. Ditmars Blvd. to Queensboro Plaza (transfer to the and take it to Times Square for & service.) 2. Whitehall St. to Stillwell Avenue via 4 Ave local. I did this of the top of my head... Next: A bomb scare near the 7th Avenue Station . This affects these two lines and the Brooklyn IRT. If you are planning to reroute the BMT Brighton lines, it will also affect the and the . What would you do? train suspended. Prospect Park to Coney Island Shuttle buses from Prospect Park to Atlantic Center. I really wish they had rebuilt the Franklin Av shuttle so that trains could pull in and terminate at Eastern Parkway for the IRT....oh well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2189 Posted August 28, 2012 I really wish they had rebuilt the Franklin Av shuttle so that trains could pull in and terminate at Eastern Parkway for the IRT....oh well. BMT/IND trains can't fit on IRT platforms, unfortunately. NEXT: the switch to the northbound loop north of 138 St-Grand Concourse is stuck in favor of the Woodlawn Line. Remember that the , , and (roughly 39 TPH total) can't fit on one track. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2190 Posted August 28, 2012 BMT/IND trains can't fit on IRT platforms, unfortunately. NEXT: the switch to the northbound loop north of 138 St-Grand Concourse is stuck in favor of the Woodlawn Line. Remember that the , , and (roughly 39 TPH total) can't fit on one track. No....there is an Eastern Parkway station for the shuttle separate from the IRT. I meant terminate there.....the station is big enough for only two cars. As for the loop, that means northbound trains can't pass then.... Here goes: trains terminate at Burnside Av on the 4 line. trains have to pick up the slack unfortunately Shuttle train from East 180th st to Dyre Av. Riders along that line are going to have a LONG ride home. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NX Express Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2191 Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) NEXT: the switch to the northbound loop north of 138 St-Grand Concourse is stuck in favor of the Woodlawn Line. Remember that the , , and (roughly 39 TPH total) can't fit on one track. Except the often run on one track. Solution: trains run via Lexington 7 Av in both directions. Northbound 5 trains already on Lexington change into s running between 149th and Bowling Green. NEXT 53 St as well as 50 St is impassable. Reroute: , others as needed Edited August 28, 2012 by NX Express 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainFanInfinity Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2192 Posted August 28, 2012 ??? trains already run on Lex. Avenue! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2193 Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) NEXT 53 St as well as 50 St is impassable. Reroute: , others as needed : Trains run via line between 59th & West 4th Sts. : Service suspended. : Trains run via line between 59th & West 4th Sts. : Trains run via line between 5th Av-53rd St & West 4th St. : Trains run in 2 sections. 1. Between Astoria-Ditmars Blvd and Queensboro Plaza. 2. Between 57th St & 9th Av via line. All trains will leave from downtown express platform. : Trains terminate at 57th St. All trains leave from uptown express platform. : No trains between Whitehall St & Bay Ridge-95th St. Free shuttle buses operate as follows. 8th Av Shuttle bus operates along 7th and 8th Avs between 59th St-Columbus Circle & West 4th St. 4th Av Shuttle bus operates along 4th Av between 36th & 95th Sts. Express shuttle bus only serves 36th, 59th, 95th Sts. Sea Beach Line Shuttle bus operates between 36th St & Coney Island. http://goo.gl/maps/U6dDi Edited August 28, 2012 by FamousNYLover 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2194 Posted August 28, 2012 I'll post next one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainFanInfinity Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2195 Posted August 28, 2012 NEXT 6 Av & 59 St is flooded. Reroute: Note: All lines must have same tph to Manhattan as before. Bonus: the switches at Lex/59 are unusable as well. Via 53 Street. Select NB trains terminate at 57 Street. No service b/w Queensboro Plaza & Times Square-42 Street. Via 63 Street. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainFanInfinity Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2196 Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) Next: A bomb scare near the 7th Avenue Station . This affects these two lines and the Brooklyn IRT. If you are planning to reroute the BMT Brighton lines, it will also affect the and the . What would you do? Southbound: Via 4th Avenue Express to 9th Avenue. Via 4th Avenue Express to 59 Street. Northbound: To Prospect Park. Brooklyn IRT: No service b/w Atlantic Avenue & Eastern Parkway. No service b/w Atlantic Avenue or Borough Hall & Eastern Brooklyn. Trains already in Eastern Brooklyn turn into 's and 's. Edited August 28, 2012 by TrainFanInfinity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainFanInfinity Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2197 Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) BMT/IND trains can't fit on IRT platforms, unfortunately. NEXT: the switch to the northbound loop north of 138 St-Grand Concourse is stuck in favor of the Woodlawn Line. Remember that the , , and (roughly 39 TPH total) can't fit on one track. No service b/w East 180 Street & Burnside Avenue or 149 Street. Riders along that line are going to have a LONG ride home. Ever heard of TRANSFERS? Edited August 28, 2012 by TrainFanInfinity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2198 Posted August 28, 2012 NEXT: due to switch replacement, the 6 Av express tracks are unusable between 42 St and 34 St. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainFanInfinity Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2199 Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) NEXT 53 St as well as 50 St is impassable. Reroute: , others as needed Via 6 Ave Local. ( via CPW Local.) No service b/w 168 Street & 34 Street. No service b/w 9 Avenue & 59 Street. According to this: http://www.nyctransi...ur/#entry576435 All trains should be able to fit in the 6th Avenue Line. Edited August 28, 2012 by TrainFanInfinity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted August 28, 2012 Share #2200 Posted August 28, 2012 Via 6 Ave Local. Via 6 Ave Express. No service b/w 9 Avenue & 59 Street. According to this: http://www.nyctransi...ur/#entry576435 All trains should be able to fit in the 6th Avenue Line. on one track is too many TPH. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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