Abba Posted November 30, 2011 Share #1 Posted November 30, 2011 Is it true that by Utica on the (4)someone else operates the train specifically for the relay and then the regular T/O takes over? If it is true are there other stations where the same manner is followed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedChikkin Posted November 30, 2011 Share #2 Posted November 30, 2011 In most places this takes place at one time or another. Sometimes they'll get rid of the switching jobs, like Church Ave on the and some places where they still have them they're more heavily utilized during rush hours, like 179 St on the and CTL for the and ®s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbluefoxie Posted November 30, 2011 Share #3 Posted November 30, 2011 how does the relay work at 179 St station, theres 4 tracks, how do you know which track has the next departing F train? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted November 30, 2011 Share #4 Posted November 30, 2011 how does the relay work at 179 St station, theres 4 tracks, how do you know which track has the next departing F train? Trains come in on 2 tracks and leave on the other two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom909 Posted December 1, 2011 Share #5 Posted December 1, 2011 on the D train, a t\o will enter the last car on a northbound train at bedford pk blvd. he will ride the train till the original t\o reaches the relay point north of 205th street. the t\o who boarded the last car at bedford pk, now takes over and drives the train southbound to bedford pk where another t\o takes over to coney island joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacie Jane Posted December 1, 2011 Share #6 Posted December 1, 2011 Trains come in on 2 tracks and leave on the other two. I don't think that answers the question. He's talking about the layup tracks beyond the switches, not the tracks they go in and out on before the switches. (P.S. Aren't there 8? The local and express tracks go to separate levels, each of which has 4.) That being said, I imagine it works the same way it does for any layup area or yard, regardless of number of tracks (2, 4, 8, 30...). Which is to say, I don't know, but I think the signalling system and/or the man in the tower magically figures it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbluefoxie Posted December 1, 2011 Share #7 Posted December 1, 2011 Trains come in on 2 tracks and leave on the other two. so its similar to 71 Ave for the (M)/® the eastbound platform is drop off only and the westbound platform is where it begins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted December 1, 2011 Share #8 Posted December 1, 2011 Once again a complete answer to finish all answers. I'll go line by line for all lines that have relays (GO work isn't counted here, as relay procedures vary per GO). To begin, some jargon for you: OPTO - One-person train operator. C/R - Conductor, needed on trains that have end door locks (R68/A, R46) Road T/O - regular, revenue service operating train operator. Switchman - non-revenue service train operator, does relays only. DE - double ended, two train operators at either end. one t/o brings it in, the other brings it back out. SE - single ended, one train operator does the whole relay, brings it in, changes ends, brings it back out. dumps - puts train in emergency and takes their tools out. On the crew changes are at Bedford Park, not 205th, at all times except put-ins. at Utica - Road T/O dumps at the station, DE relay with two switchmen. at Parkchester - Road T/O dumps at the station, DE relay with two switchmen. at 168 (train is on time) - Road T/O dumps at the station, SE relay with one switchman. at 168 (train is late) - DE relay, either with two switchmen or one switchman and a road T/O (usually the one who's going to take it out next, but sometimes the one who brings it in). at Euclid (train is on time) - SE relay with Road T/O. at Euclid (train is late) - DE relay with Road T/O and switchman, Road T/O pulls it in, switchman pulls it back out. at Euclid (crew has 3 trips and Road T/O needs comfort) - Road T/O dumps at the staiton, SE relay with switchman. at 205th (train is on time) - DE relay with Road T/O and switchman, Road T/O pulls it in, switchman pulls it back out. at 205th (train is late) - train goes "over the top", operates against the normal flow of traffic, Road T/O changes ends. at 205th (train is late and middle track at Bedford is occupied) - DE relay with Road T/O and switchman, Road T/O pulls it in, switchman pulls it out and operates in service to Bedford, then travels back to 205th. at 179 (either uptown track, train is on time) - SE relay with Road T/O. at 179 (either uptown track, train is very late) - DE relay with Road T/O and switchman, road T/O pulls it in, switchman pulls it out. at Church (train is on time) - SE relay with Road T/O and C/R. at Church (train is very late) - DE relay with Road T/O and switchman, road T/O pulls it in, switchman pulls it back out. at Broad Channel (except summer) - SE relay with OPTO T/O. at Broad Channel (summer) - SE relay with Road T/O and C/R. at Chambers or Broad St - SE relay with Road T/O. at Broad St (rush hour) - DE relay with Road T/O and switchman, switchman pulls it in, Road T/O brings it back out. at Continental (train is on time) - SE relay with Road T/O. at Continental (train is late) DE relay with Road T/o and switchman, road t/o pulls it in, switchman pulls it out. at Continental - DE relay with Road T/O and switchman, which end switchman is on varies, AM rush at the south end, PM rush at the north end, why this is I dunno, don't ask me. Long Relay - Certain areas of the system have more than one relay position (Continental has FIVE, by the way, two short, three long). All long relays (except emergencies) are SE. Places and lines that have long relays: at Parkchester (Westchester yard lead A) at Continental (2nd relay position on either relay track or Jamaica yard lead) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted December 1, 2011 Share #9 Posted December 1, 2011 so its similar to 71 Ave for the (M)/® the eastbound platform is drop off only and the westbound platform is where it begins? Yes except the subway is north and south, unlike the LIRR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 1, 2011 Share #10 Posted December 1, 2011 (M)at Continental (train is on time) - SE relay with Road T/O. Not all the time i have done single ended relays .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted December 1, 2011 Share #11 Posted December 1, 2011 Sometimes things get so hectic its DE for both services, but CTL is like the one exception systemwide. I've only worked PM's there and rush hours is something else (especially with that ATD). It is especially difficult to explain to the public and railfans/buffs what happens to each and every interval there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 1, 2011 Share #12 Posted December 1, 2011 Sometimes things get so hectic its DE for both services, but CTL is like the one exception systemwide. I've only worked PM's there and rush hours is something else (especially with that ATD). It is especially difficult to explain to the public and railfans/buffs what happens to each and every interval there. Im fully aware of it bro three days a week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted December 2, 2011 Share #13 Posted December 2, 2011 I did my own relay at 205th had to go to the bathroom didnt want to wait for someone to jump on the south Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGerald Posted December 2, 2011 Share #14 Posted December 2, 2011 1) TwoTimer thank you very much for that long explanation. I just have a couple of questions. 2) What is a long relay? You gave two examples, the #6 at Parkchester (Westchester yard lead A) and the M and R at Continental (2nd relay position on either relay track or Jamaica yard lead). Just wondering, is a long relay when the train, say a #6 Parkchester local train is taken out of service at Parkchester, and then that train is driven to the train yard for storage? Or is a long relay a situation where say a #6 Parkchester local train is taken out of service at Parkchester, and then train is driven to well past its normal stopping point (just before Castle Hill Avenue) on the middle track (say to Zerega Avenue), and the train waits there before it is returned to service at Parkchester? Just wondering. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedChikkin Posted December 3, 2011 Share #15 Posted December 3, 2011 The long relays usually occur when, under time constraint, the dispatcher allows for 2 trains to occupy same track to expedite more trains arriving at said terminal to be discharged of customers also making it easier for the tower operator to keep the lineup for both trains and put, for example an right behind an (considering absolute block, already-activated Starting Lights and TD/ATD yelling over the radio and/or PA) out of the relay positions at Continental. There are times where long relays are required during G.O.s such as repairing track circuits akin to what occurred at Church Ave and (G)s were sent on long relays to 18th Ave. Another thing to consider is equipment. Nothing upset me more than when Conductors ditch their Train Operators that have to single relay R-46 equipment at Continental. Having storm doors unlock train line required the MDC/Vapor key which, for service and time-constraint purposes, required it be activated at the Conductor's position... otherwise the T/O is tasked with unlocking and re-locking through the train once he's dumped his train in the relay position- those doors could easily make you pull a muscle if one isn't careful– they're heavy. Once in awhile you'll hear the dispatcher at Continental stating over the PA that the Conductor is required to stay with the train... highly inconsiderate and unprofessional of those Conductors whom regularly do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted December 3, 2011 Share #16 Posted December 3, 2011 The long relays usually occur when, under time constraint, the dispatcher allows for 2 trains to occupy same track to expedite more trains arriving at said terminal to be discharged of customers also making it easier for the tower operator to keep the lineup for both trains and put, for example an right behind an (considering absolute block, already-activated Starting Lights and TD/ATD yelling over the radio and/or PA) out of the relay positions at Continental. There are times where long relays are required during G.O.s such as repairing track circuits akin to what occurred at Church Ave and (G)s were sent on long relays to 18th Ave. Another thing to consider is equipment. Nothing upset me more than when Conductors ditch their Train Operators that have to single relay R-46 equipment at Continental. Having storm doors unlock train line required the MDC/Vapor key which, for service and time-constraint purposes, required it be activated at the Conductor's position... otherwise the T/O is tasked with unlocking and re-locking through the train once he's dumped his train in the relay position- those doors could easily make you pull a muscle if one isn't careful– they're heavy. Once in awhile you'll hear the dispatcher at Continental stating over the PA that the Conductor is required to stay with the train... highly inconsiderate and unprofessional of those Conductors whom regularly do this. Or do what I do, just walk the roadbed to the other end. But @ Mike Gerald, the second assumption is more correct, its when both trains are needed for service, but one not right away. I'll give you a common situation what I experienced while as a tower operator at Westchester. As you know, normal service on the Pelham line once the train gets into Manhattan is , etc. Its midday. Lets say for some reason a Pelham train leaves late, and even though it went down the express track as normal, the Parkchester train got in front of it. So now we have (6)<6> in Manhattan entering 125th. Ok the trains lumber on downtown, go around the loop, and now go uptown (express service updown didnt start yet). The road blows up, that 5th train went up the express track in Manhattan, and got in front of the Pelham in front of it. So now when the trains hit 3rd Av its, (6) (remember, express service still going the other way, I just kept the diamond symbol so you know its a Pelham train) all on the local track going uptown. The second train is 4 minutes early out of Brooklyn Bridge because it got in front of the going south. The behind it is 4 minutes behind schedule as a result going north (midday headways on the are 4 minutes in Manhattan). So the first gets into Parkchester and awaits relay. A second Parkchester sits behind it, then the Pelham train right (followed by another parkchester train and a pelham)? The T/D at Parkchester needs both trains for service, but he can't just sit the 2nd Parkchester train in front of the Pelham train for an extra 4 minutes. So this is what he does... 1st - SE long relay to Westchester yard (usually when a gets to Parkchester, its not ready to relay just yet, as there is usually a train in the relay position ready to come out). 2nd - normal DE relay (this one will be ready to relay as soon as the train goes into the station and dumps) 3rd train - to Pelham with little or no delay so as not to further disrupt Pelham service, remember at minimum Pelham expected the train 4 minutes earlier than it expected to get there. 4th - normal DE relay. 5th train - to Pelham. Now of the three Parkchester trains, they do not come out in the same order of which they went to relay. This is the order they come out... 2nd train (speedy relay as by time it gets there there shouldnt be anything in the relay) 4th train (again, nothing in the relay) 1st train (follows a Pelham train down the local track from West Sq as to not further disrupt terminal relay functions at Parkchester) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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