Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[dkupf]

I know that there is latent demand between Fresh Meadows and Northern Blvd, as well as via Jewel Ave east of Utopia Pkwy.

 

So, how about this:

 

Q88 - Make it a true HHE route. Operate all times.

Q75 - Restore route. Operate weekday rush only.

Q64 - Extend via Jewel Ave and 73 Ave to Oakland Gardens. Implement limited-stop service west of Utopia Pkwy weekday rush only, with local short trips to/from Utopia Pkwy. Possible weekday extension to QCC.

Q17 - Operate via 188 St, Utopia Pkwy, and Northern Blvd to Flushing.

Q34 - Operate between Flushing and Fort Totten only via Willets Point Blvd. Operate all times.

Q25 - Add daily service south of Flushing to compensate for the loss of the Q17 and the Q34.

Q16 - Eliminate Francis Lewis Blvd branch. Operate Utopia Pkwy branch to Beechhurst instead of Fort Totten.

 

This would close service gaps, and make eastern Queens more accessible by mass transit without unnecessarily duplicating other services.

Edited November 22, 2013 by dkupf

[qjtransitmaster]

Dude north of northern Blvd is really DEAD.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I know that there is latent demand between Fresh Meadows and Northern Blvd, as well as via Jewel Ave east of Utopia Pkwy.

 

So, how about this:

 

Q88 - Make it a true HHE route. Operate all times.

Q75 - Restore route. Operate weekday rush only.

Q64 - Extend via Jewel Ave and 73 Ave to Oakland Gardens. Implement limited-stop service west of Utopia Pkwy weekday rush only, with local short trips to/from Utopia Pkwy. Possible weekday extension to QCC.

Q17 - Operate via 188 St, Utopia Pkwy, and Northern Blvd to Flushing.

Q34 - Operate between Flushing and Fort Totten only via Willets Point Blvd. Operate all times.

Q25 - Add daily service south of Flushing to compensate for the loss of the Q17 and the Q34.

Q16 - Eliminate Francis Lewis Blvd branch. Operate Utopia Pkwy branch to Beechhurst instead of Fort Totten.

 

This would close service gaps, and make eastern Queens more accessible by mass transit without unnecessarily duplicating other services.

 

Everything in red is not needed at all

 

Q88: No one in Little Neck wishes to take the bus all the way to QCM for the train

 

Q75: It's not needed at all, in any way, shape, or form

 

Q64: That's a reliability issue waiting to happen

 

Q17: Absolutely not. Northern has already enough service, and 188 doesnt need service north of HHE

 

Q34: Those people drive or take the QM20, what makes you think they're gonna take the Q34 to the

 

Q25: With the Q34, it's a good congruency so that there are enough buses for the masses, despite the irregularities in headways

 

Q16: NE Queens is car or Express bus country, no way you're gonna people to ride those buses

 

And the Q34 to the , Q16 to the , AND Q17 route you mentioned would duplicate the QM20, QM2/Q15, and the Q12/13 respectively, and leave HHE riders riding to the , which arent the best. That area needs both services. This is just basterdizing the routes' usefulness and giving service to areas that dont need it

Edited November 22, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

You make it sound like people are suggesting all those routes go there at once....

 

It's not about QCC being "that special" anyway, it's about making other routes more useful than what they are..... I don't agree with the latter 3 routes mentioned going there either, but I do think the 26 should run supplementary to the 27 to QCC (instead of to hollis court, where it turns off)....

 

Anyway, extending the Q64 eastward I'm tired of talking about.... I'm also one that says that route should remain right where it is; ending @ 164th....

 

 

How is 63 rd an alternative for the LeFrak folks?

 

I can assure you no one will walk from 63rd to the north side of the LIE....

 

See, it's either screw LeFrak folks with cutting the QM10 or screw the Rego Park patrons on the south side of the LIE (62dr/63 rd) with cutting the QM10 & somehow/someway having QM12's serve LeFrak....

 

That's the problem w/ axing the QM10.

Usually, the idea/consensus is to combine the 10/11; which basically prolongs the s*** out of that route in Manhattan (serving lower & midtown)....

 

You could have the QM3 making stops at 108, Westside, and 99 in the AM.

 

In the PM, I have no idea what to do, unless you route the QM12 to 99 street then 63 Rd to Maintain some service to the area near Lefrak.

 

I do agree it's a very difficult merge (both routes are not the best in ridership, however the problem with the QM10 is the LIE, since half of the Queens route is north of it and half of it is on the south. 

[qjtransitmaster]

You could have the QM3 making stops at 108, Westside, and 99 in the AM.

 

In the PM, I have no idea what to do, unless you route the QM12 to 99 street then 63 Rd to Maintain some service to the area near Lefrak.

 

I do agree it's a very difficult merge (both routes are not the best in ridership, however the problem with the QM10 is the LIE, since half of the Queens route is north of it and half of it is on the south. 

Qm10 is best merged with qm12 not 11.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Qm10 is best merged with qm12 not 11.

That's what I was suggesting the whole time...

[qjtransitmaster]

That's what I was suggesting the whole time...

Good we are on the same page.

[B35 via Church]

Everything in red is not needed at all

 

Q88: No one in Little Neck wishes to take the bus all the way to QCM for the train

 

Q75: It's not needed at all, in any way, shape, or form

 

Q64: That's a reliability issue waiting to happen

 

Q17: Absolutely not. Northern has already enough service, and 188 doesnt need service north of HHE

 

Q34: Those people drive or take the QM20, what makes you think they're gonna take the Q34 to the

 

Q25: With the Q34, it's a good congruency so that there are enough buses for the masses, despite the irregularities in headways

 

Q16: NE Queens is car or Express bus country, no way you're gonna people to ride those buses

 

And the Q34 to the , Q16 to the , AND Q17 route you mentioned would duplicate the QM20, QM2/Q15, and the Q12/13 respectively, and leave HHE riders riding to the , which arent the best. That area needs both services. This is just basterdizing the routes' usefulness and giving service to areas that dont need it

Yup, now you see why I'm against closing some service gaps in the system.... I have said on numerous occasions that not all service gaps need to be closed......

 

- Q88... I even suggested that, but came to the realization that the Little Neck, etc. folks are content with taking 30's to the ....

Can't really blame em....

 

The more I thought about it, a "true" HHE route would resemble (hell, would be worse than) the commute for those folks, that come from NSLIJ & have to take the full Q46 to the subway (which I for one, do not miss having to do at all!)... At least they still have direct access to the QB express... the Q88 from Little Neck (and that general section of Queens) to Woodhaven subway, not so much....

 

- Q75...Yeah,  It's a lost cause....These are the people taking 17's & 30's now.

(when this year's ridership stats come about, there's a couple routes I want to see if there's any noticeable increase on... the Q30 is one of em)

 

- Q64... Yeah, same ole, same ole...

 

- Q17... What gets me is having this route being put on northern blvd....

You wanna make the Q17 FAR more useless than what it is today, you have the route take on such a routing.

 

- Q16 & Q34.... Something else I (similarly) suggested..... I don't have too much of a problem with what he's doing with that - although I wouldn't do it all for the sake of closing service gaps in other areas.... See here & here (posts made by me about 2 months ago in this same thread.... AEMoreira also raised some points....) - Like I said in a later post in that discussion, I'd leave the 25/34 alone.... I would still go about restructuring the Q16 though....

 

As is (currently), IMO, the Utopia 16's should get canned, for the very reason you stated (folks too busy driving or taking express buses)..... I want to add, it is the francis lewis 16's that get more usage during the day (not anything mind-blowing, but better than the air it gets along utopia for most the day... lol)....

 

 

You could have the QM3 making stops at 108, Westside, and 99 in the AM.

 

In the PM, I have no idea what to do, unless you route the QM12 to 99 street then 63 Rd to Maintain some service to the area near Lefrak.

 

I do agree it's a very difficult merge (both routes are not the best in ridership, however the problem with the QM10 is the LIE, since half of the Queens route is north of it and half of it is on the south. 

Hmm..... I would say have every other QM12 run in LeFrak & the other alternating 12's to do 63rd, but this would have to come w/ an overall service increase of the 12... Which needless to say, won't happen.....

[bobtehpanda]

Here's the thing: there is a very good reason why the the 17 and 88 make the turns they do now.

 

The Q88 turns at 188 instead of Springfield because the HHE east of 188 has crappy demand; the Cross Island/LIE interchange in particular makes the surrounding area effectively barren when it comes to passenger catchment. East of 188, service is provided by the fairly frequent Q30 to QCC because it is such a big destination; after that, frequency is halved because demand drops even further. Those out there in Little Neck are more likely to get dropped off at the LIRR for Manhattan or drive to their workplace in Eastern Queens/Nassau.

 

The Q88 also turns that way to provide 73rd Av and QV residents easy access to the 188th St shopping area, and it is utilized to some degree for that purpose. (Heck, I would say that most QV riders get off at 188 or at Queens College; very few would be getting off at QCM because bus+train would probably be faster.) It also provides a significantly faster ride to the HHE area from Union Turnpike and areas south (east of 188th, of course); from QV, you'd probably burn an extra fifteen or twenty minutes going into Jamaica to catch the 17.

The Q17 does what it does in Flushing, because Kissena is the main commercial/residential corridor in Flushing by far. Stand on Northern and then go to Kissena and the difference will be palpable; Kissena is comparable to Grand St in Chinatown in terms of crowding levels and business vibrancy, while Northern is a standard suburban arterial road with very little pedestrian activity. Most people heading into Flushing are heading to a destination somewhere on Kissena, which is why the Q27 and Q17 detour onto Kissena, so you'd destroy most of the Q17's customer base by turning it onto Northern.

 

What are the odds of a Q31A succeeding; following the Q31 but staying on Utopia until Northern, and then turning west into Flushing via the Q12 route?

[dkupf]

I know that there is latent demand between Fresh Meadows and Northern Blvd, as well as via Jewel Ave east of Utopia Pkwy.

 

So, how about this:

 

Q88 - Make it a true HHE route. Operate all times.

Q75 - Restore route. Operate weekday rush only.

Q64 - Extend via Jewel Ave and 73 Ave to Oakland Gardens. Implement limited-stop service west of Utopia Pkwy weekday rush only, with local short trips to/from Utopia Pkwy. Possible weekday extension to QCC.

Q17 - Operate via 188 St, Utopia Pkwy, and Northern Blvd to Flushing.

Q34 - Operate between Flushing and Fort Totten only via Willets Point Blvd. Operate all times.

Q25 - Add daily service south of Flushing to compensate for the loss of the Q17 and the Q34.

Q16 - Eliminate Francis Lewis Blvd branch. Operate Utopia Pkwy branch to Beechhurst instead of Fort Totten.

 

This would close service gaps, and make eastern Queens more accessible by mass transit without unnecessarily duplicating other services.

I forgot about two:

 

Q30 - Operate only between Jamaica and QCC only weekdays only.  Maintain service levels based on ridership counts.

Q31 - Add evening and weekend service to compensate for the loss of the Q30.

 

And from the above, add Q88 service to compensate for the loss of the Q30 east of QCC.  Possible limited-stop service weekday rush hours.

 

As that ridership is relatively low east of 188 St, Fresh Meadows riders to/from Jamaica could still use the Q17.  And during the weekdays most current HHE riders east of 188 St would still have the Q30 to/from Jamaica.

 

Yes, there are some losers.  But many more riders, especially during the off peak, will benefit.

Edited November 22, 2013 by dkupf

[dkupf]

Here's the thing: there is a very good reason why the the 17 and 88 make the turns they do now.

 

...The Q17 does what it does in Flushing, because Kissena is the main commercial/residential corridor in Flushing by far. Stand on Northern and then go to Kissena and the difference will be palpable; Kissena is comparable to Grand St in Chinatown in terms of crowding levels and business vibrancy, while Northern is a standard suburban arterial road with very little pedestrian activity. Most people heading into Flushing are heading to a destination somewhere on Kissena, which is why the Q27 and Q17 detour onto Kissena, so you'd destroy most of the Q17's customer base by turning it onto Northern....

 

But north of HHE, Kissena Blvd is only one lane in each direction with parking, making the Q17 journey slow and cumbersome.  Sending the Q17 to operate via Northern Blvd, which is significantly wider, would make local and limited-stop service faster for Fresh Meadows riders.

 

And national statistics show that if service is X percent faster, ridership will increase by 2X percent.

[bobtehpanda]

But north of HHE, Kissena Blvd is only one lane in each direction with parking, making the Q17 journey slow and cumbersome.  Sending the Q17 to operate via Northern Blvd, which is significantly wider, would make local and limited-stop service faster for Fresh Meadows riders.

 

And national statistics show that if service is X percent faster, ridership will increase by 2X percent.

 

While there is a general consensus about increases in speed and increases in ridership being correlated, it really isn't that clear cut, and it assumes that the route is traveling along the same general corridor.

 

This is sort of like saying that we should route the Q44 onto the Van Wyck because it's faster and wider than Parsons, and saying that bus stops there would be faster. I mean, yeah, but you'd also be killing off the main source of demand. There is really little demand for travel along Northern; this is why the Q27 picks up a significantly larger amount of people than the Q12/13, despite the fact that they are usually 2-4 blocks apart.

 

Kissena also isn't slow. It's slow compared to the rest of Queens, but it's not that slow. The slowest part of that is the stretch on Main from Sanford to the turnaround, but most people get off at Sanford anyways. (There isn't even a speed problem out of Flushing on Kissena.)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You could have the QM3 making stops at 108, Westside, and 99 in the AM.

 

In the PM, I have no idea what to do, unless you route the QM12 to 99 street then 63 Rd to Maintain some service to the area near Lefrak.

 

I do agree it's a very difficult merge (both routes are not the best in ridership, however the problem with the QM10 is the LIE, since half of the Queens route is north of it and half of it is on the south. 

 

 

Hmm..... I would say have every other QM12 run in LeFrak & the other alternating 12's to do 63rd, but this would have to come w/ an overall service increase of the 12... Which needless to say, won't happen.....

The question I have is why is ridership dwindling so much on some QM lines?

[NewFlyer 230]

The question I have is why is ridership dwindling so much on some QM lines?

I would guess because of the fare to ride the bus. The QM10, QM11 and QM12 are close to the QBL so why waste $6 when you can only use $2.50 + a transfer. The QM21 is losing because the people can't keep up with the price and the area it runs in also affects its ridership. The QM3 and QM18 don't run for that long the QM3 still has 3 trips when it should have at least 7-10 trips and maybe it will attract people. The QM18 is to long and it runs on Queens blvd picking up people until Woodhaven.

[B35 via Church]

I forgot about two:

 

Q30 - Operate only between Jamaica and QCC only weekdays only.  Maintain service levels based on ridership counts.

Q31 - Add evening and weekend service to compensate for the loss of the Q30.

 

And from the above, add Q88 service to compensate for the loss of the Q30 east of QCC.  Possible limited-stop service weekday rush hours.

 

As that ridership is relatively low east of 188 St, Fresh Meadows riders to/from Jamaica could still use the Q17.  And during the weekdays most current HHE riders east of 188 St would still have the Q30 to/from Jamaica.

 

Yes, there are some losers.  But many more riders, especially during the off peak, will benefit.

Your plan for the most part I think would be detrimental, for reasons already mentioned by bobpanda.....

 

But never mind my opinion about your plan for the moment..... What many more riders specifically are you referring to? In what areas? On what routes? Because with your plan(s) here, you're not illustrating this benefit you say would occur.....

 

Filling gaps & altering other services in the process doesn't automatically loom beneficial for affected riders (this is what you seem to be implicating).... You have to know/realize how riders utilize the current routes you'd alter..... From terminal to terminal..... Each & every one of em.

 

The question I have is why is ridership dwindling so much on some QM lines?

Good question....

[bobtehpanda]

The question I have is why is ridership dwindling so much on some QM lines?

Now this is a very terrible thing to say...

 

But Queens probably has the most cheapskates per capita of any borough in the city.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Most QM buses serve areas near the subway for a good portion of their route. When the economy went down, and prices went up, you had people switch to the local bus.

[qjtransitmaster]

Yup, now you see why I'm against closing some service gaps in the system.... I have said on numerous occasions that not all service gaps need to be closed......

 

- Q88... I even suggested that, but came to the realization that the Little Neck, etc. folks are content with taking 30's to the ....

Can't really blame em....

 

The more I thought about it, a "true" HHE route would resemble (hell, would be worse than) the commute for those folks, that come from NSLIJ & have to take the full Q46 to the subway (which I for one, do not miss having to do at all!)... At least they still have direct access to the QB express... the Q88 from Little Neck (and that general section of Queens) to Woodhaven subway, not so much....

 

- Q75...Yeah,  It's a lost cause....These are the people taking 17's & 30's now.

(when this year's ridership stats come about, there's a couple routes I want to see if there's any noticeable increase on... the Q30 is one of em)

 

- Q64... Yeah, same ole, same ole...

 

- Q17... What gets me is having this route being put on northern blvd....

You wanna make the Q17 FAR more useless than what it is today, you have the route take on such a routing.

 

- Q16 & Q34.... Something else I (similarly) suggested..... I don't have too much of a problem with what he's doing with that - although I wouldn't do it all for the sake of closing service gaps in other areas.... See here & here (posts made by me about 2 months ago in this same thread.... AEMoreira also raised some points....) - Like I said in a later post in that discussion, I'd leave the 25/34 alone.... I would still go about restructuring the Q16 though....

 

As is (currently), IMO, the Utopia 16's should get canned, for the very reason you stated (folks too busy driving or taking express buses)..... I want to add, it is the francis lewis 16's that get more usage during the day (not anything mind-blowing, but better than the air it gets along utopia for most the day... lol)....

 

 

Hmm..... I would say have every other QM12 run in LeFrak & the other alternating 12's to do 63rd, but this would have to come w/ an overall service increase of the 12... Which needless to say, won't happen.....

that part of queens by utopia barely even sees CARS!!!!! At some times of day you will see more people on a bus than even driving.

 

Here's the thing: there is a very good reason why the the 17 and 88 make the turns they do now.

 

The Q88 turns at 188 instead of Springfield because the HHE east of 188 has crappy demand; the Cross Island/LIE interchange in particular makes the surrounding area effectively barren when it comes to passenger catchment. East of 188, service is provided by the fairly frequent Q30 to QCC because it is such a big destination; after that, frequency is halved because demand drops even further. Those out there in Little Neck are more likely to get dropped off at the LIRR for Manhattan or drive to their workplace in Eastern Queens/Nassau.

 

The Q88 also turns that way to provide 73rd Av and QV residents easy access to the 188th St shopping area, and it is utilized to some degree for that purpose. (Heck, I would say that most QV riders get off at 188 or at Queens College; very few would be getting off at QCM because bus+train would probably be faster.) It also provides a significantly faster ride to the HHE area from Union Turnpike and areas south (east of 188th, of course); from QV, you'd probably burn an extra fifteen or twenty minutes going into Jamaica to catch the 17.

 

The Q17 does what it does in Flushing, because Kissena is the main commercial/residential corridor in Flushing by far. Stand on Northern and then go to Kissena and the difference will be palpable; Kissena is comparable to Grand St in Chinatown in terms of crowding levels and business vibrancy, while Northern is a standard suburban arterial road with very little pedestrian activity. Most people heading into Flushing are heading to a destination somewhere on Kissena, which is why the Q27 and Q17 detour onto Kissena, so you'd destroy most of the Q17's customer base by turning it onto Northern.

 

What are the odds of a Q31A succeeding; following the Q31 but staying on Utopia until Northern, and then turning west into Flushing via the Q12 route?

Q31a? Err? I won't give MTA an excuse to Shit on the Q31 dude.

 

The question I have is why is ridership dwindling so much on some QM lines?

simple they aren't that much faster than the local to the subway which FYI is stupid fast with few stops on the & good luck competeing with the combined frequency of those lines.

 

I would guess because of the fare to ride the bus. The QM10, QM11 and QM12 are close to the QBL so why waste $6 when you can only use $2.50 + a transfer. The QM21 is losing because the people can't keep up with the price and the area it runs in also affects its ridership. The QM3 and QM18 don't run for that long the QM3 still has 3 trips when it should have at least 7-10 trips and maybe it will attract people. The QM18 is to long and it runs on Queens blvd picking up people until Woodhaven.

No increase in service would help QM3 nor make a dent in LIRR ridership. However how successful would an upper Manhattan to queens route be? Like following QM3's route or QM12's queens routing BUT instead of going to midtown or downtown it will go to uptown Manhattan instead via BQE and if so would serving upper east side with the BXM lines and bxm2 west side work or just go to hospital areas in the upper area via the Harlem river to GWB  and serve 150s areas  with some 125th drop offs by Lexington line and metro north which can cater to extreme reverse commuters indirectly without dealing with the and grand central. Or just have them transfer to bxm lines whilst heading deep north in Manhattan. Or have 2 upper manhattan lines to satisfy both travel markets?

Edited November 23, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[qjtransitmaster]

Now this is a very terrible thing to say...

 

But Queens probably has the most cheapskates per capita of any borough in the city.

really I thought they really just didn't have time for dat? Qm fail.

[B35 via Church]

that part of queens by utopia barely even sees CARS!!!!! At some times of day you will see more people on a bus than even driving.

Do you know what the term car country entails?

 

The times of the day you see more people on a bus than those driving would be evident, because the people in said area are not in their neighborhood during those times (mid-days)... They're out working or doing whatever else they do.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

No increase in service would help QM3 nor make a dent in LIRR ridership. However how successful would an upper Manhattan to queens route be? Like following QM3's route or QM12's queens routing BUT instead of going to midtown or downtown it will go to uptown Manhattan instead via BQE and if so would serving upper east side with the BXM lines and bxm2 west side work or just go to hospital areas in the upper area via the Harlem river to GWB  and serve 150s areas  with some 125th drop offs by Lexington line and metro north which can cater to extreme reverse commuters indirectly without dealing with the and grand central. Or just have them transfer to bxm lines whilst heading deep north in Manhattan. Or have 2 upper manhattan lines to satisfy both travel markets?

OMG, just stop with the Upper East Side/Upper West Side ideas.  Riverdale has Upper East Side and Upper West Side express bus service due to the demographics of Riverdale.  #1 Riverdale has a large Jewish population, as does the Upper East Side and Upper West Side.  #2 You have Upper East Siders and Upper West Siders that move from those neighborhoods to Riverdale as well, so when you combine those two situations, along with the overall demographics of Riverdale all which is heavily white, and the professions in terms of what fields Riverdalians work in, it makes perfect sense.  You have a lot of doctors, teachers and the like in managerial positions that work in the city and live in Riverdale.  You also have folks that work at the UN that live in Riverdale, so the demographics of Riverdale dictates the service we get.  You have the Wall Street types Downtown living in Riverdale, folks that work by Mount Sinai, folks that go to shows by Lincoln Center or dine in that area and then the East Side folks (Park, 3rd Avenue, Madison, as well as 5th Ave), so that's why we have three express buses.  That's also why for example a lot of the BxM buses stop at 125th street because of the demographics.  Harlem consists of mainly blacks and Latinos and most areas of the Bronx are heavily black and Latino, so there's a connection there.  If you notice, the Riverdale express buses do not stop at 125th because there is no reason for them to.  I see no reason for QM express buses to serve the Upper East or Upper West Side at all because of the demographics of QM riders.

 

Most QM buses serve areas near the subway for a good portion of their route. When the economy went down, and prices went up, you had people switch to the local bus.

Not the case for most QM's... Also could be a demographic thing too...

 

Now this is a very terrible thing to say...

 

But Queens probably has the most cheapskates per capita of any borough in the city.

LOL.... Seems to be the case...

Edited November 25, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Oh, God, just stop with the Upper East Side/Upper West Side ideas.  Riverdale has Upper East Side and Upper West Side express bus service due to the demographics of Riverdale.  #1 Riverdale has a large Jewish population, as does the Upper East Side and Upper West Side.  #2 You have Upper East Siders and Upper West Siders that move from those neighborhoods to Riverdale as well, so when you combine those two situations along with the overall demographics of Riverdale all which is heavily white, and the professions in terms of what fields Riverdalians work in, it makes perfect sense.  You have a lot of doctors, teachers and the like in managerial positions that work in the city and live in Riverdale.  You also have folks that work at the UN that live in Riverdale, so the demographics of Riverdale dictates the service we get.  You have the Wall Street types Downtown living in Riverdale, folks that work by Mount Sinai, folks that go to shows by Lincoln Center or dine in that area and then the East Side folks (Park, 3rd Avenue, Madison as well as 5th Ave), so that's why we have three express buses.  That's also why for example a lot of the BxM buses stop at 125th street because of the demographics.  Harlem consists of mainly blacks and Latinos and most areas of the Bronx are heavily black and Latino, so there's a connection there.  If you notice, the Riverdale express buses do not stop at 125th because there is no reason for them to.  I see no reason for QM express buses to serve the Upper East or Upper West Side at all because of the demographics of QM riders.

 

Not the case for most QM's... Also could be a demographic thing too...

 

LOL.... Seems to be the case...

 

That's the case for every QM bus with the subway less than 3 miles away. Look at the QM10, QM12, QM21, and QM18. The one with the most damage was the QM10, ridership went down 48% (yes, 48%, not 4.8%) between 2007 and 2012, every year going down. The QM12 suffered significantly as well. The QM21 lost more than 50% of ridership in that same period. 

Edited November 25, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That's the case for every QM bus. Look at the QM10, QM12, QM21, and QM18. The one with the most damage was the QM10, ridership went down 48% (yes, 48%, not 4.8%) between 2007 and 2012, every year going down. The QM12 suffered significantly as well. I think the QM21 lost nearly 50% of ridership in that same period. 

I'm surprised by the QM12 because it ends in Forest Hills, which is fairly affluent.  The QM21 isn't shocking, but I think that's economic, as the QM21 serves black neighborhoods, and blacks were hit hard by the recession moreso than any other group.  QM18 actually passes by two subway lines, but in the overall scheme of things, it's much easier and comfortable to use that versus the subway.  Could it be that the subways in Queens have less riff-raff than say the ones in the Bronx for example? I think that's part of it too.  I have seen posts on the internet where some people in the Bronx for example use the express bus not necessarily because of the speed factor, but because the subways in some cases go through really rough neighborhoods in the Bronx.  I knew a lady who used the BxM6 to Parkchester precisely for that reason.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

 

 

I'm surprised by the QM12 because it ends in Forest Hills, which is fairly affluent.  The QM21 isn't shocking, but I think that's economic, as the QM21 serves black neighborhoods, and blacks were hit hard by the recession moreso than any other group.  QM18 actually passes by two subway lines, but in the overall scheme of things, it's much easier and comfortable to use that versus the subway.  Could it be that the subways in Queens have less riff-raff than say the ones in the Bronx for example? I think that's part of it too.  I have seen posts on the internet where some people in the Bronx for example use the express bus not necessarily because of the speed factor, but because the subways in some cases go through really rough neighborhoods in the Bronx.  I knew a lady who used the BxM6 to Parkchester precisely for that reason.

 

Queens subways generally are okay, nothing really to worry about, unless you are on the QBL area south of Roosevelt (popular bum location(s) east  and south of it), and Jamaica.

 

The QM24 has also held up in 2010 because the Q38's reliabilty was HORRIBLE back then. It still thrives though. 

 

No increase in service would help QM3 nor make a dent in LIRR ridership. However how successful would an upper Manhattan to queens route be? Like following QM3's route or QM12's queens routing BUT instead of going to midtown or downtown it will go to uptown Manhattan instead via BQE and if so would serving upper east side with the BXM lines and bxm2 west side work or just go to hospital areas in the upper area via the Harlem river to GWB  and serve 150s areas  with some 125th drop offs by Lexington line and metro north which can cater to extreme reverse commuters indirectly without dealing with the and grand central. Or just have them transfer to bxm lines whilst heading deep north in Manhattan. Or have 2 upper manhattan lines to satisfy both travel markets?

 

This type of route wouldn't be success. Number one, the best you're gonna have is taking any of the QM's or the BM5 to the BxM1, then take it to Inwood.

[bobtehpanda]

OMG, just stop with the Upper East Side/Upper West Side ideas.  Riverdale has Upper East Side and Upper West Side express bus service due to the demographics of Riverdale.  #1 Riverdale has a large Jewish population, as does the Upper East Side and Upper West Side.  #2 You have Upper East Siders and Upper West Siders that move from those neighborhoods to Riverdale as well, so when you combine those two situations, along with the overall demographics of Riverdale all which is heavily white, and the professions in terms of what fields Riverdalians work in, it makes perfect sense.  You have a lot of doctors, teachers and the like in managerial positions that work in the city and live in Riverdale.  You also have folks that work at the UN that live in Riverdale, so the demographics of Riverdale dictates the service we get.  You have the Wall Street types Downtown living in Riverdale, folks that work by Mount Sinai, folks that go to shows by Lincoln Center or dine in that area and then the East Side folks (Park, 3rd Avenue, Madison, as well as 5th Ave), so that's why we have three express buses.  That's also why for example a lot of the BxM buses stop at 125th street because of the demographics.  Harlem consists of mainly blacks and Latinos and most areas of the Bronx are heavily black and Latino, so there's a connection there.  If you notice, the Riverdale express buses do not stop at 125th because there is no reason for them to.  I see no reason for QM express buses to serve the Upper East or Upper West Side at all because of the demographics of QM riders.

 

The thing is, from Riverdale or the rest of the Bronx, if you have to get to the opposite side of town from wherever you may be, it may not be possible to transfer until Midtown, or without backtracking.

 

On the other hand, most people in Queens will end up in Midtown anyways if they take an express bus, and the or is a straight, quick shot into Midtown, with transfers to various lines available. In some cases, particularly if one works at buildings connected to the Rockefeller Center complex or Penn Station, it may actually be more convenient to take the Queens Blvd trains.

 

Queens is also probably the most solidly middle class borough of them all, so there's that.