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Q43LTD

Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

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This thread is about any ideas to improve Queens Bus service. First I like to focus on the Rockaways. The Rockaways has a come a long way since the PBL days. The MTA has realized that 7 days a week LTD service is the answer. Now with this new Q52 coming in the summer, what do you think of bus service in the Rockaways? Please let's keep our ideas realistic and financially sane

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You aint kiddin with that first sentence.

But yeh, like I pretty much said in the other related thread, the way service is structured now is totally justified....

 

 

- The Q22 should be left alone (meaning, remaining in the rockaways) & not be combined with the Q35, or any other route that would have it coming to brooklyn....

 

- A case could be made for sending the Q35 to arverne, since there are a significant amt. of ppl. (coming from Brooklyn) that get off @ B. 149th, or the dirt passageway that leads to B. 169th for the Q22.... Personally, I think the Q35 should remain terminating @ B. 116th, being the quick link b/w the two boroughs.... The erratic service on the route should be looked into, though....

 

- The Q52/53 tandem (or whatever you wanna call it) I think will work out for the better... no more disembarking 53's coming from "mainland" Queens to xfer to an EB Q22...... The Q52 will also ease pressure off the 53, and the 11/21 really.... I said this before, but I'll repeat it - Instead of waiting for an already packed 53 having came from areas north of QB, Woodhaven/Cross Bay riders will now have "their own" LTD, beginning over on hoffman......

 

- The Q113 to/from the Rockaways I can't speak much on, although I do know those buses get SRO at the first stop at those apt's.... Not sure how service is on that route, ever since they've moved the LTD's off snake road (lol) & onto rockaway blvd....

 

- The QM16 they may as well move back to (terminating at) B. 147th..... The QM17 is fine.....

 

 

 

If you wanna include the Q11/21 in this discussion....

- The Q21 truncation to 164th I don't have a problem with... Rockaway riders want quick access to the mainland, and on the Arverne end they'll have it with the Q52.... Only negative is the elimination of (local)bus stops within broad channel...... The one thing I'll say about Lindenwood is that they do use their buses (expresses and locals)... They'll have more reliable service now b/w their neighborhood & the subway station (rockaway blvd (A))......

 

- The Q11.... With the 21 being truncated, this most likely'll help out (crowd control along Woodhaven on) the 11 also, since buses (21's) aren't all coming from the Rockaways.....

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I agree with most of B35's comments on current Rockaways bus service in 2012. With that said i like to make additional takes.

 

1)IMO either the Q22 or Q53 should have overnight hourly service since there is currently no late night east-west mass transit (i.e bus or subway)connecting all of the rockaways.

 

Not to mention an alternative in case of bad weather when the "A" or Rockaway park shuttle is not running.

 

2)Create Saturday "Limited" Q113 service for faster service between Far Rockaway and rest of SE Queens/Jamaica.

 

3)During summer weekends only, create special few "Q35X" buses stopping only at Flatbush/Nostrand, Kings Highway, Kings Plaza and Riis Park. It would operate similar to BX12 and BX5 Ochard Beach specials designed to relieve overcrowding on the Q35.

 

4)Ditto for creating a couple the Q53 'express' summer weekends only. However it would start/end at 74th St/Jackson Heights and stop

at Grand Ave/Queens Blvd, Hoffman/Woodhaven(QC Mall), Metro Ave then non stop to/from Rockaway Park. Similar to pre MTA take over days.

 

Just my takes. reactions?

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I agree with most of B35's comments on current Rockaways bus service in 2012. With that said i like to make additional takes.

 

1)IMO either the Q22 or Q53 should have overnight hourly service since there is currently no late night east-west mass transit (i.e bus or subway)connecting all of the rockaways.

 

Not to mention an alternative in case of bad weather when the "A" or Rockaway park shuttle is not running.

 

2)Create Saturday "Limited" Q113 service for faster service between Far Rockaway and rest of SE Queens/Jamaica.

 

3)During summer weekends only, create special few "Q35X" buses stopping only at Flatbush/Nostrand, Kings Highway, Kings Plaza and Riis Park. It would operate similar to BX12 and BX5 Ochard Beach specials designed to relieve overcrowding on the Q35.

 

4)Ditto for creating a couple the Q53 'express' summer weekends only. However it would start/end at 74th St/Jackson Heights and stop

at Grand Ave/Queens Blvd, Hoffman/Woodhaven(QC Mall), Metro Ave then non stop to/from Rockaway Park. Similar to pre MTA take over days.

 

Just my takes. reactions?

 

1) If there's bad weather, you could always run shuttle buses. As far as overnight service, the Q53 would be redundant with the (S) to the (A) (I mean, they are supposedly timed to connect). For travel from Far Rockaway to Rockaway Park, they're somewhat timed (the (A) comes in 12 minutes before the (S) leaves, but the (S) is supposed to be sitting there so you can get on instead of waiting on the cold platform. Plus, the Q22 would likely run every hour, whereas the subway runs every 20 minutes.

 

2) It already exists.

 

3) Doesn't the Q35 already do that? Didn't they make it a limited-only route down Flatbush Avenue?

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The Q35 is Limited on Flatbush Av currently, but the Q35X Shortline proposes would still skip a good 5 or so stops over the current Q35.

 

As for this Q53 express of yours, would it serve Broad Channel? The original Q53 express did.

Edited by Mysterious2train

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Here are my takes:

Q21: The MTA finally got it right. No one, I mean no one takes this route to the Rockaways. The shortening to Howard Beach is a good thing. Likely to come from JFK fully possibly interlining with the Q11/41

Q22: Always had help west of the Cross Bay Bridge, but never east. A case could be made for the Q52 to be extended to Far Rockaway. Should be left as is, not extended to Brooklyn. Overnight service should be added

Q35: I think it gets delayed because of the drawbridge. I just have issues with its Brooklyn terminal

Q53: It's a distant memory that it went non stop from Rego Park to Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge. Hopefully it doesn't revert back to that

Q113: 7 days a week LTD service a plus. The new routing via Rockaway Blvd is a time saver

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Overnight service on the 22 would be a money waster. There's not enough peoplewho travel within rockaway overnights to cover the cost of even one night owl running up and down the line.

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- Don't need a Q35x or whatever.... all you have to do to address those beach goers is to have a Q35 that starts over there opposite kings plaza.... or to make the transfer situation easier (so folks won't have to cross flatbush av, from kings plaza), start it over there at av S in front of that rite aid.... It'd be similar to how the Bx12's that start on bruckner blvd (NB side) do....

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Overnight service on the 22 would be a money waster. There's not enough peoplewho travel within rockaway overnights to cover the cost of even one night owl running up and down the line.

 

 

It won't be a money waster if they run the owl bus to/from Beach 67th and shut down the Rockaway Park (S)...

Edited by Amtrak7

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@B35: These Q35 short-turns would drop people off at Kings Plaza and dead-head to Avenue S, right? Or would it end at Avenue S?

 

About the Q52 to Far Rockaway, I dunno, is it needed? Playing devil's advocate here, but the deadhead distance for the Q52 would go up a lot and the route in general would become pretty long. Is it really bringing anything to the table the (A) isn't already? I mean, the Q53 takes just about the same time as the shuttle to get to Broad Channel from 116th St and actually goes somewhere, but from Far Rockaway the Q22 to the Q21 takes almost twice as long as the (A) [12 mins vs. 25 mins, not including wait time transferring between the Q22 and Q21, and the bus would probably take even longer during busier travel periods anyway...] The Q52 would be somewhat faster, but are people really going to take the bus when they could take the faster train instead? I do have to say, the idea of a faster trip on the Eastern end of the peninsula could prove to be kinda popular.

 

How frequent will the Q52 be anyway? Right now the Q21 LTD is 15 minutes during Peak Rush Hour and the Q21 Local is all day, every day. We have no indication as to how fequent the Q52 will be, except that there will be "minor schedule adjustments" to the Q11 and Q53. Personally, I don't think there will be too much change compared to current Q21 service to Arverne.

 

I do think a Q53 Express could work in tandem with the current 52 and 53, but I don't know if it could its own weight all-year long or just during summer.

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@B35: These Q35 short-turns would drop people off at Kings Plaza and dead-head to Avenue S, right? Or would it end at Avenue S?

 

About the Q52 to Far Rockaway, I dunno, is it needed? Playing devil's advocate here, but the deadhead distance for the Q52 would go up a lot and the route in general would become pretty long. Is it really bringing anything to the table the (A) isn't already? I mean, the Q53 takes just about the same time as the shuttle to get to Broad Channel from 116th St and actually goes somewhere, but from Far Rockaway the Q22 to the Q21 takes almost twice as long as the (A) [12 mins vs. 25 mins, not including wait time transferring between the Q22 and Q21, and the bus would probably take even longer during busier travel periods anyway...] The Q52 would be somewhat faster, but are people really going to take the bus when they could take the faster train instead? I do have to say, the idea of a faster trip on the Eastern end of the peninsula could prove to be kinda popular.

 

How frequent will the Q52 be anyway? Right now the Q21 LTD is 15 minutes during Peak Rush Hour and the Q21 Local is all day, every day. We have no indication as to how fequent the Q52 will be, except that there will be "minor schedule adjustments" to the Q11 and Q53. Personally, I don't think there will be too much change compared to current Q21 service to Arverne.

 

I do think a Q53 Express could work in tandem with the current 52 and 53, but I don't know if it could its own weight all-year long or just during summer.

 

 

Under my idea, a restore pre MTA era Q53 'express' would run on summer weekends only but without the Rego Park stop(63rd Drive & Queens Blvd)in peak direction i.e To Rockaway park appx. 7am-12 Noon and From Rockaway Park 3-8pm every 30 minutes.

 

The proposed Q53X summer special stops would only be:

 

All existing Q53 stops between Woodside and Hoffman(Woodhaven & Queens Blvd station)

Metro Ave.

Liberty Ave

'1' stop in Broad Channel (21st Road)

All stops on Rockaway Pensuila between the Bridge and Beach 116th.

 

By doing this, it still creates some room on lower half on Woodhaven Q53 service southbound. At same time ditto for Queens Blvd/Woodside bound Q53's along the line as well.

 

And I also disagree with B35 on the "Q35." The buses from Nostrand/Flatbush station are crushloaded during summer weekends so a bus starting at Kings Plaza will not help that much. That why i suggested a Q35X running only between Riis Park and Flatbush/Nostrand in addition to regular Q35 service. PS Checkmate I am fully aware the Q35 is a limited along Flatbush Ave.

 

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@B35: These Q35 short-turns would drop people off at Kings Plaza and dead-head to Avenue S, right? Or would it end at Avenue S?

Yep, the former.

 

And I also disagree with B35 on the "Q35." The buses from Nostrand/Flatbush station are crushloaded during summer weekends so a bus starting at Kings Plaza will not help that much. That why i suggested a Q35X running only between Riis Park and Flatbush/Nostrand in addition to regular Q35 service.

pfft, you kidding me.... It absolutely would help....

 

Yeah buses leaving the junction are crushloaded; no one's doubting that.... However, there are two separate crowds bombarding Q35's beach bound... the ones emanating at the junction & the ones emanating at Av U....

 

This is why you had quite a few ppl. back then talking about extending B2's to Riis Park....

Matter fact, you were one of them ! - Which is why this reply coming from you here, I find funny......

 

 

- You want to create a Q35x to get beach goers to/from the junction faster, and have regular Q35 service pick up the slack, running the full route....

- I'm talking about having regular Q35 service run the full route, and having some Q35's run b/w Av U & the beach....

 

You are not gonna get me to believe that there are more ppl. coming from the beach disembarking at the junction, more than they do at Av. U..... Sorry brah.... Done experienced that headache w/ the Q35 for too long.... Your Q35x junction bound will not be much different than regular Q35's heading towards the junction !

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pfft, you kidding me.... It absolutely would help....

 

Yeah buses leaving the junction are crushloaded; no one's doubting that.... However, there are two separate crowds bombarding Q35's beach bound... the ones emanating at the junction & the ones emanating at Av U....

 

This is why you had quite a few ppl. back then talking about extending B2's to Riis Park....

Matter fact, you were one of them ! - Which is why this reply coming from you here, I find funny......

 

 

- You want to create a Q35x to get beach goers to/from the junction faster, and have regular Q35 service pick up the slack, running the full route....

- I'm talking about having regular Q35 service run the full route, and having some Q35's run b/w Av U & the beach....

 

You are not gonna get me to believe that there are more ppl. coming from the beach disembarking at the junction, more than they do at Av. U..... Sorry brah.... Done experienced that headache w/ the Q35 for too long.... Your Q35x junction bound will not be much different than regular Q35's heading towards the junction !

 

 

 

My friend (B35) yes i did a couple of years back(before the June '10 doomsday cuts canned weekend service)suggested the B2 be extended to Riis Park(summer weekends only) not only to relieve overcrowding on the Q35 but also increase B2 weekend ridership.

 

Now it's not running on the weekend (B2)the Q35x is a new idea. Last summer on a Saturday i was fanning from Rockaways-Coney Island and getting off at Kings Plaza for the "B3" even at 3-4pm in afternoon Beach 116th-Bound Q35's was Crushloaded and one bus*bypassed* the Flatbush South/Ave U. (Kings Plaza stop)

 

By an 'express' (it would be only for a few hours in peak direction each way say 8am-12 Noon To Riis and 4-8pm Towards Nostand)Rockaway-bound Q35's between Kings Highway and Kings Plaza have a much better chance of getting a seat. However your idea B35 is also a possible solution. Main objective is that riders on Southbound Q35's have a chance of a seat in rest of Brooklyn *south of the Nostrand & Flatbush station* during the summer.

 

Northbound Q35's there also the B41 and for a short period also the B9's as alternatives.

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My friend (B35) yes i did a couple of years back(before the June '10 doomsday cuts canned weekend service)suggested the B2 be extended to Riis Park(summer weekends only) not only to relieve overcrowding on the Q35 but also increase B2 weekend ridership.

 

Now it's not running on the weekend (B2)the Q35x is a new idea. Last summer on a Saturday i was fanning from Rockaways-Coney Island and getting off at Kings Plaza for the "B3" even at 3-4pm in afternoon Beach 116th-Bound Q35's was Crushloaded and one bus *bypassed* the Flatbush South/Ave U. (Kings Plaza stop)

 

By an 'express' (it would be only for a few hours in peak direction each way say 8am-12 Noon To Riis and 4-8pm Towards Nostand) Rockaway-bound Q35's between Kings Highway and Kings Plaza have a much better chance of getting a seat. However your idea B35 is also a possible solution. Main objective is that riders on Southbound Q35's have a chance of a seat in rest of Brooklyn *south of the Nostrand & Flatbush station* during the summer.

 

Northbound Q35's there also the B41 and for a short period also the B9's as alternatives.

- Ok bro, but how close was a preceeding Q35 in front of that Q35 you saw crushloaded that didn't stop at Av U.....

 

- I'd go one further & say the main objective is that riders can get on the Q35's, regardless of direction......

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- Ok bro, but how close was a preceeding Q35 in front of that Q35 you saw crushloaded that didn't stop at Av U.....

 

- I'd go one further & say the main objective is that riders can get on the Q35's, regardless of direction......

 

 

Another Beach 116th bound Q35 arrived about 10 minutes later at Flatbush South between U & V with some standees but not crushloaded on that particuarly Saturday last summer.

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How about this, there is reason why the Q35 is rerouted to serve Riis Park during the summer. There is no need for a Q35X or a B2 extension to Riis Park

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Yes, but those Q35s are absolutely packed. There's a reason people are suggesting extra service to the Rockaways. The (MTA) can't even be bothered to add extra Q35 trips for the season.

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While we're on the subject of the Q35....

Since when did they eliminate that (brooklyn bound) bus stop on the corner of Rockaway Bch. Blvd. & B 147th st ?

 

I can bet the reasoning behind it was, some ppl. coming from the beach was walking back to that bus stop (to try to beat the crowds already waiting at the B. 149th st stop)..... now the preceeding stop is on B 147th, short of neponsit av.... You aint goin get much, if any beach comers-from, walking that far back, well into the residential portion of the neighborhood.....

 

Then again, it could simply be that no one uses the stop anymore, now that the outbound QM16 doesn't stop (terminate) around that corner anymore.... And nobody coming off Q22's xfer to the brooklyn bound Q35 there....

 

 

How about this, there is reason why the Q35 is rerouted to serve Riis Park during the summer. There is no need for a Q35X or a B2 extension to Riis Park

 

Alright, so it's not just me.....

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How about this, there is reason why the Q35 is rerouted to serve Riis Park during the summer. There is no need for a Q35X or a B2 extension to Riis Park

 

 

 

The Q35 during summer weekends is Crushloaded SRO where last summer i saw personally a Rockaway Park-Q35 not stop at the Kings Plaza (Flatbush South between Ave. U & V)stop. Again even with increased headways, not sure what can help? Thus why i suggested a Summer only Q35X between Nostrand/Flatbush and Riis Park in addition to regular Q35 service. If the BX5 and BX12 can have summer specials to Ochard Beach why not extra service for the Q35 and 53 to the Rockaways?

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Again even with increased headways, not sure what can help? Thus why i suggested a Summer only Q35X between Nostrand/Flatbush and Riis Park in addition to regular Q35 service.

I don't know about that.....

 

So you really think even with increased frequency (not increased headways) on the Q35, there's still a need for a LTD. variant to the beach? Because that's all your Q35x is, in a nutshell.....

 

Service isn't even implemented like that on the orchard beach Bx12's (since you bring that route up)..... During summers, they don't add service on the 12 emanating from manhattan (or sedgwick av) for the sake of sending them to orchard beach - What it is is that, you have less buses stopping dead at Pelham Bay Park (6) & more of em heading to orchard bch....

 

Then of course, you have the shuttles that start over by that overpass (from the subway).... Those solely run b/w the subway & the beach itself.....

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It won't be a money waster if they run the owl bus to/from Beach 67th and shut down the Rockaway Park (S)...

 

 

That would be a huge no-no. 1) every subway station is served except for broad-Fulton on the J cause the IRT is a block away and racetrack cause it was only for when the horses are running and 2) it will be an inconvenience. Not everyone begins there trip on the subway. Some maybtake the bus to the train and that will turn rock pk into a two fare zone and you can forget about free transfers. They are not gonna have programmers work on the fare control just to have an overnight q22. Like I said....it's a money waster.

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That would be a huge no-no. 1) every subway station is served except for broad-Fulton on the J cause the IRT is a block away and racetrack cause it was only for when the horses are running and 2) it will be an inconvenience. Not everyone begins there trip on the subway. Some maybtake the bus to the train and that will turn rock pk into a two fare zone and you can forget about free transfers. They are not gonna have programmers work on the fare control just to have an overnight q22. Like I said....it's a money waster.

 

 

Since it's at night, they could just extend the Q35 to Beach 67th Street. They can't transfer from anything else because nothing else runs. (Unless you're referring to them transferring at the other end of the trip, outside the Rockaways)

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