Eric Adams wants transit workers armed w/ tasers

[Gorgor]

There will be some massive law suit every time a worker uses this, and the MTA, and more importantly the media, will find a way to put the entire blame on the worker who used it, ending their career, even if it was perfectly justified. Just saying.

[Grand Concourse]

I'm with triborough on this issue. Life and death situation, if I were a b/o, I'd hope to have something to use to fight off the attacker. I could care less about that scumbag's wellbeing. I'd favor my life over the assaulter's any day. If defending my life is a crime, I'd be more than willing to bring it to court to prove my justification.*

 

*obviously I know if the perp is down, that's when I must stop or else I become the assaulter, as insane as the law sounds.

[BrooklynIRT]

Triboro: The problem is that there could be repercussions: Misuse, abuse, etc.

 

The shield is generally the answer and is doing its job on brand new buses that have it.

 

I agree that they seem to have done a half-ass job on the shields on older buses like RTSs (also I was told a 55xx Artic has a half-ass shield), but the shields on the newer buses provide good coverage.

 

Grand Concourse: <<However, a plexiglass shield is still too thin. I doubt it can deflect a knife blade...>>

 

No buddy. It can deflect a knife blade. I have analyzed the thing up close myself and two of my friends (bus operators) told me the shield on the LFS Artics is pretty effective.

 

I agree with you about the shields on older buses having a sizable gap. Shields on newer buses have a gap as well, but they still provide good coverage. It also depends on how far back the bus operator sits.

 

Shit, the times I have seen bus operators talk to the passengers (to tell them the farebox is broken or whatever), they have actually had to grab the front edge of the shield to anchor themselves forward to wave the people on (it is sometimes difficult to see the hand gestures if the glare is significant enough) or to speak without having to worry about the sound obstructed by the shield. One of my friends (bus operators) told me he has to do that himself whenever he is in that situation.

 

A person can reach around the shield or reach over the shield, but the person still cannot make physical contact with the operator. That includes striking the operator with a hand/fist or a stabbing weapon.

 

Also if a person does reach around or over the shield, it is very easy to fend the person off. And a person that does this in an attempt to harm the operator is not going to be very effective because it takes too much time for the person to try to do anything substantially harmful without the harmful intentions being noticed and something being done to avert the consequences of these harmful intentions.

 

I am speaking more for the shields on the newer buses though. If the shields on the older buses are as ineffective as you say they are (I think I did notice less coverage, thinner material is also possible), then hopefully they just get retired as quickly as possible.

[Grand Concourse]

Ok, I'll take your word for it. But they need to pick up the production of those partitions. B/o's shouldn't be put in a vulnerable spot.

[Brighton Express]

That would be interesting. But I would be careful about the Conductors. If they get mad, and use those, you could create quite a scene if you see what I am saying. Tasers hurt more than punches.

 

 

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Subway-Conductor-MTA-Punch-Passenger-Arrest-Assault-136527713.html

 

[Joe]

Forget pepper spray. It doesn't work on the perps. The mutts are immune to everything.

[INDman]

So you wouldn't support it simply because you don't benefit from it??

 

 

If it was extended to PATH employees, I'd be all for it.

[Noflexdont]

Delete previous post if possible

 

Now this is coming from a Bus Operator. 99.9999%of the time a driver can defuse a situation before anything drastic happens. Most of the time when attacks happen is due to the driver adding fuel to the fire. That 0.0001% are the truly crazy people that we have here in NYC. i had a guy come on my bus bitching that i was five minutes late. a simple reply of I'm sorry stopped it from going any further. I could have been a jack ass and said something stupid but for what. I'm not giving up my salary for some petty sh!t. One more thing. I'm not the police or a security guard nor am I superman.I once was a solider in the army and pledged my life against enemies foreign and domestic and served in Iraq with roadside bombs and daily mortar attack. I no longer wear that uniform. I wear a MTA Bus Operator uniform and i preform my duties to the best of my ability. I been trained to do what? call command center and report. nothing more nothing less. If people are so worried about crime and violence on transit workers why not hire more police and security. Put up the glass partitions not the stupid camera($18K a bus) that helps after the fact. I'm sure that what my wife want to hear if i were to get stabbed to death. Well we have a picture of the perp and we are looking for him, meanwhile the partition which cost no more than a $1K saved my life. Sorry for my rant. one more thing. I see this as a ploy that the union is doing TWU and PBA trying to get more police on the beat. Im sorry to say that the MTA will keep dragging there feet with safety for there workers until someone dies, oh wait that already happened. Still no change.

[Threxx]

Who gives a crap if it permanently injures them?! transit workers are doing their job, & making ends meat for some a**hole to come beat the shit out of him/her, cause they didn't let them skip the fear, or didn't let them bring a DOG on the bus?! I'm pretty sure you remember THAT story!

 

Transit employees get beaten almost to death & you're worried about someone being injured for life?!

 

I hope this gets passed & all transit employees get to carry them, so there are less to no assaults on transit employees!

 

Obviously seeing both sides of the issue isn't welcomed.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Delete previous post if possible

 

Now this is coming from a Bus Operator. 99.9999%of the time a driver can defuse a situation before anything drastic happens. Most of the time when attacks happen is due to the driver adding fuel to the fire. That 0.0001% are the truly crazy people that we have here in NYC. i had a guy come on my bus bitching that i was five minutes late. a simple reply of I'm sorry stopped it from going any further. I could have been a jack ass and said something stupid but for what. I'm not giving up my salary for some petty sh!t. One more thing. I'm not the police or a security guard nor am I superman.I once was a solider in the army and pledged my life against enemies foreign and domestic and served in Iraq with roadside bombs and daily mortar attack. I no longer wear that uniform. I wear a MTA Bus Operator uniform and i preform my duties to the best of my ability. I been trained to do what? call command center and report. nothing more nothing less. If people are so worried about crime and violence on transit workers why not hire more police and security. Put up the glass partitions not the stupid camera($18K a bus) that helps after the fact. I'm sure that what my wife want to hear if i were to get stabbed to death. Well we have a picture of the perp and we are looking for him, meanwhile the partition which cost no more than a $1K saved my life. Sorry for my rant. one more thing. I see this as a ploy that the union is doing TWU and PBA trying to get more police on the beat. Im sorry to say that the MTA will keep dragging there feet with safety for there workers until someone dies, oh wait that already happened. Still no change.

 

Well forget about the whole police point... I agree with you there, but wouldn't you want some form of protection??? If you step outside of that partition and some guys are beating the crap out of you that taser could very well save your life.

[BrooklynIRT]

If you want to look at it that way, then you might as well give the entire civilian population tasers. A bus operator or train operator or conductor stepping outside the operating space is in the same boat as any other person walking around minding his/her own business.

 

If a bus operator sees a wheelchair passenger but makes the argument that s/he has reasons not to want to leave his/her operating space, such as the fact that s/he may have noticed a threatening person on the bus that s/he feels may attack him/her, then the simple solution is to not leave the operating space and tell the wheelchair passenger to board another bus, unless the wheelchair passenger does not need restraints or somebody else can deal with the restraints and/or somebody else can lift the folding seats to make space for the wheelchair.

 

I doubt that has even happened. People have started shit with bus operators for the following 'reasons':

 

-Bus operator challenged them for not paying

 

-Bus operator skipped their stop

 

-Bus operator driving 'too slowly'

 

-Bus operator told them they cannot bring unrestrained animals on buses

 

None of these 'reasons' can be cited if a bus operator is walking around and is not in the operating position, because again, s/he is not much different from any other person walking around minding his/her own business. Giving them tasers could be conducive to abuse and misuse by some persons who might take things too far, and again if you are going to give tasers to employees who are behind partitions and do not need the things while in the operating position, I could just make the argument that you might as well give me and everybody else one since I am in the same boat as a bus operator who is not in the operating position [and does not need the thing while in the operating position]: I walk around minding my own business and this is when I 'need' to carry the taser.

 

Then everybody has the tasers and suddenly the environment becomes even more hostile than it already is. Not necessary.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If you want to look at it that way, then you might as well give the entire civilian population tasers. A bus operator or train operator or conductor stepping outside the operating space is in the same boat as any other person walking around minding his/her own business.

 

If a bus operator sees a wheelchair passenger but makes the argument that s/he has reasons not to want to leave his/her operating space, such as the fact that s/he may have noticed a threatening person on the bus that s/he feels may attack him/her, then the simple solution is to not leave the operating space and tell the wheelchair passenger to board another bus, unless the wheelchair passenger does not need restraints or somebody else can deal with the restraints and/or somebody else can lift the folding seats to make space for the wheelchair.

 

I doubt that has even happened. People have started shit with bus operators for the following 'reasons':

 

-Bus operator challenged them for not paying

 

-Bus operator skipped their stop

 

-Bus operator driving 'too slowly'

 

-Bus operator told them they cannot bring unrestrained animals on buses

 

None of these 'reasons' can be cited if a bus operator is walking around and is not in the operating position, because again, s/he is not much different from any other person walking around minding his/her own business. Giving them tasers could be conducive to abuse and misuse by some persons who might take things too far, and again if you are going to give tasers to employees who are behind partitions and do not need the things while in the operating position, I could just make the argument that you might as well give me and everybody else one since I am in the same boat as a bus operator who is not in the operating position [and does not need the thing while in the operating position]: I walk around minding my own business and this is when I 'need' to carry the taser.

 

Then everybody has the tasers and suddenly the environment becomes even more hostile than it already is. Not necessary.

 

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.... Slow down for a minute... I was specifically talking about being on the job. An incident comes to mind in fact in which a B/O stood up to some punks for not paying the fare. They got off of the bus that day but then the next day they all get on and pay and then ride the bus to the last stop and then beat the living day lights out of the B/O for the incident from the previous day, as if they're entitled to ride for free. If the guy had a taser or some sort of protection, they would've thought twice about that and maybe the situation would've never happened to begin with because they wouldn't have even bothered to board the first time, trying to get on and not pay. That was my point. Again, don't like tasers, then give these guys some sort of protection!! Right now they are at the mercy of these thugs and that has to change. The real reason this is happening is a lack of enforcement of the rules. Simple as that. If you deter these sorts of things from happening to begin with then you do have to even discuss B/Os having tasers because the situation wouldn't escalate to these levels, but due to a lack of enforcement these thugs have become emboldened to do as they please because they don't think that there will be any consequences.

[BrooklynIRT]

I am not following you Via. Are you taking into account buses that have shields? Once every NYCT bus has a shield that does the same job that the shields on the LFSs/LFS Artics/O7 3Gs/Xclesiors, there will be no need for operators to carry tasers.

 

The side window next to the operating area on the LFS and LFS Artics swings out if you pull the red emergency release handle, allowing for escape from the bus if the perps waiting for you are standing right there breathing on the shield and you cannot escape that way. This is the solution to situations where you are at the last stop and wish to exit the bus for a break. Next step is to summon the authorities.

 

The other solution is to hit a secret button.

 

I was specifically talking about being on the job--that says to me that you want them to carry tasers from the time they report to work to the time they clear from work, so when they clear from work they have to give the taser back to the crew at the depot. Alright. This could be justified now since not every bus has a shield, but again once every bus has a a shield it will still be unnecessary for the reasons I outlined above.

 

Again, tasers seem ok as long as not every bus placed in service by the company for which you drive the buses has a shield.

 

I should amend this statement: Once every bus in service for the company for which you drive the buses has shields AND has side windows that allow for escape in case of an emergency, then there is really no need to carry tasers. I do not know which other NYCT buses in service have side windows with such a design.

 

The fact that I amended that statement in that way is telling me that you are pushing this an awful lot, but I am accounting for what you have to say anyway.

 

My stance remains: If every bus has a shield, there is almost *zero* need for tasers. If every bus has a shield AND sufficiently large operator's area side windows with emergency release levers, there is definitely *zero* need for tasers. If tasers are to be given to bus operators and/or any other employees, the tasers should only be given to them when they report for work and they should return them to the crew at the depot or yard or whatever headquarters they have to go to when they clear from work.

[checkmatechamp13]

Yeah, but the farebeaters are usually the ones that start the attacks.

 

And where's your proof of that? You'd have people attack B/Os because they were driving too slow or skipped their stop or whatever, and I doubt most of those people are farebeaters (for the record, those are good reasons to get angry, but not to the point where you're physically attacking the B/O)

 

Yeah well we've got B/Os being permanently injured by thugs or even worse killed. Where's the concern over that???

 

 

In all these years, how many B/Os were permenantly injured or killed? Yeah, there have been plenty of instances of them getting into fights with passengers, but in all the news stories, it's usually something like som bruises and a black eye. I'm not trying to downplay the situation, but let's not exaggerate it either to make it seem like permenant injuries and death are a regular occurance.

 

How much more specific can it be? As you said, the subways are totally enclosed behind metal doors. However, a plexiglass shield is still too thin. I doubt it can deflect a knife blade and you still have some partitions that don't fully separate the driver from the rider with a sizable gap. A person can still reach around it.

 

 

At least if the person has to reach around, it gives the B/O a better chance at defending himself. It's hard to get a good stab in if you have to reach around.

 

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.... Slow down for a minute... I was specifically talking about being on the job. An incident comes to mind in fact in which a B/O stood up to some punks for not paying the fare. They got off of the bus that day but then the next day they all get on and pay and then ride the bus to the last stop and then beat the living day lights out of the B/O for the incident from the previous day, as if they're entitled to ride for free. If the guy had a taser or some sort of protection, they would've thought twice about that and maybe the situation would've never happened to begin with because they wouldn't have even bothered to board the first time, trying to get on and not pay. That was my point. Again, don't like tasers, then give these guys some sort of protection!! Right now they are at the mercy of these thugs and that has to change. The real reason this is happening is a lack of enforcement of the rules. Simple as that. If you deter these sorts of things from happening to begin with then you do have to even discuss B/Os having tasers because the situation wouldn't escalate to these levels, but due to a lack of enforcement these thugs have become emboldened to do as they please because they don't think that there will be any consequences.

 

 

And I guarantee you that if the B/O tases them, they'll be suing the MTA for a lot more than $2.25, and the B/O will have to deal with a whole lot of questioning and crap like that on top of it.

[BrooklynIRT]

Via, you make it seem like the lack of fare enforcement is the root of the problem with bus operators' safety. Maybe, maybe not. Let us assume that it is. Well if we use that logic, then all I can say is that it is unfortunate that people are so brazen as to challenge the fare in the ways that they do (I would say this regardless of whether or not it is the root of the problem). But the thing is, everybody who follows this stuff, from the workers to the people who just make observations about this stuff (including the friends and family of the workers'), knows what the deal is with farebeating. We know that employees have been killed for trying to prevent farebeating.

 

Given this knowledge, they should know that they are taking chances by trying to enforce the fare. This should not be, but it is. This is just the way it goes and it is really not the end of the world if bus operators do not enforce it. They cannot write tickets and if they try to report it to console they have to go through drug tests and intense questioning (and I believe the interrogations are recorded) and fill out like 100 pages of paperwork just to get the farebeater detained. Or they have to fill out the paperwork after the farebeater is detained. Whatever. Either way they have to fill it out if they let console know about it.

 

If they choose to enforce the fare, good for them since they are trying to stand for something and I respect that. But (and this is the cruz of my argument) this does not mean that they should use taser guns to protect themselves, especially if their bus always has a shield [and a large easy-open side window for emergencies as an additional safety measure], because they knew of the possibility of rubbing the perps the wrong way when they kicked them off the bus or whatever and they have easy ways out of the situation that does not necessitate the use of tasers. Parts of this can be perceived as a broken MO, but then again, what is an "unbroken" MO anyway with all the ridiculousness that goes on in this world?

 

In reference to comments that were made a while back about what bus operators should do when somebody does not want to pay (state that the fare is $2.25 or whatever), I support any and all decisions made in dealing with the person (short of physically harming the person), as long as the employee knows what might happen later. Hopefully nothing happens, but one still has to be prepared for what can happen. Decisions I support include the decision to say absolutely nothing and ignore the farebeater if the farebeater walks right by the box without saying anything, and I believe MTA needs to re-write its rule book to say that there is nothing wrong with the decision to say absolutely nothing and ignore those who beat the fare, pretending that they do not exist.

 

The rule book, trainers, and supervisory entities should not be saying jack shit about "state that the fare is $2.25", or "ask them [politely] to pay the fare" or whatever and the rules should have been revised in this way eons ago. Management should not formally place fare enforcement or fare collection on the shoulders of unarmed, non-bulletproofed employees under any circumstances. The rules about fare collection and fare enforcement are archaic and should be chucked into the nearest active volcano.

[Grand Concourse]

So maybe have a cop on board all buses then? I would guess that if people saw an armed cop, they'd be less likely to do something stupid. (Well less than the usual level of stupid as there's no way to cure stupidity in this world.)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Via, you make it seem like the lack of fare enforcement is the root of the problem with bus operators' safety. Maybe, maybe not. Let us assume that it is. Well if we use that logic, then all I can say is that it is unfortunate that people are so brazen as to challenge the fare in the ways that they do (I would say this regardless of whether or not it is the root of the problem). But the thing is, everybody who follows this stuff, from the workers to the people who just make observations about this stuff (including the friends and family of the workers'), knows what the deal is with farebeating. We know that employees have been killed for trying to prevent farebeating.

 

Given this knowledge, they should know that they are taking chances by trying to enforce the fare. This should not be, but it is. This is just the way it goes and it is really not the end of the world if bus operators do not enforce it. They cannot write tickets and if they try to report it to console they have to go through drug tests and intense questioning (and I believe the interrogations are recorded) and fill out like 100 pages of paperwork just to get the farebeater detained. Or they have to fill out the paperwork after the farebeater is detained. Whatever. Either way they have to fill it out if they let console know about it.

 

If they choose to enforce the fare, good for them since they are trying to stand for something and I respect that. But (and this is the cruz of my argument) this does not mean that they should use taser guns to protect themselves, especially if their bus always has a shield [and a large easy-open side window for emergencies as an additional safety measure], because they knew of the possibility of rubbing the perps the wrong way when they kicked them off the bus or whatever and they have easy ways out of the situation that does not necessitate the use of tasers. Parts of this can be perceived as a broken MO, but then again, what is an "unbroken" MO anyway with all the ridiculousness that goes on in this world?

 

In reference to comments that were made a while back about what bus operators should do when somebody does not want to pay (state that the fare is $2.25 or whatever), I support any and all decisions made in dealing with the person (short of physically harming the person), as long as the employee knows what might happen later. Hopefully nothing happens, but one still has to be prepared for what can happen. Decisions I support include the decision to say absolutely nothing and ignore the farebeater if the farebeater walks right by the box without saying anything, and I believe MTA needs to re-write its rule book to say that there is nothing wrong with the decision to say absolutely nothing and ignore those who beat the fare, pretending that they do not exist.

 

The rule book, trainers, and supervisory entities should not be saying jack shit about "state that the fare is $2.25", or "ask them [politely] to pay the fare" or whatever and the rules should have been revised in this way eons ago. Management should not formally place fare enforcement or fare collection on the shoulders of unarmed, non-bulletproofed employees under any circumstances. The rules about fare collection and fare enforcement are archaic and should be chucked into the nearest active volcano.

 

 

The issue is a lack of repercussions period. It's not just the issue of farebeating. It's the issue of folks acting out in the system in general and facing little if any discipline. This is leading to more and more violence in general in the system and something MUST be done. You don't want B/Os having tasers fine, but we can't continue to let folks do what they are currently doing. They should be allowed to carry tasers with them simply for their own safety because right now they are at the mercy of these hooligans with no protection. Either do that or step up to the plate and come up with another plan.

 

And where's your proof of that? You'd have people attack B/Os because they were driving too slow or skipped their stop or whatever, and I doubt most of those people are farebeaters (for the record, those are good reasons to get angry, but not to the point where you're physically attacking the B/O)

 

Oh don't play dumb. My eyes are my proof. I've seen plenty of incidents in my 30 years on this earth of hooligans getting on the bus, not paying their fare and then causing a sh*t load of problems. Just stop with your pretentious ignorance of the issue as if you don't know what goes on. It's quite sickening to be honest. If you don't know then fine, but I know what I see and have seen, so I'm speaking from experience.

 

In all these years, how many B/Os were permenantly injured or killed? Yeah, there have been plenty of instances of them getting into fights with passengers, but in all the news stories, it's usually something like som bruises and a black eye. I'm not trying to downplay the situation, but let's not exaggerate it either to make it seem like permenant injuries and death are a regular occurance.

 

One is too many as far as I'm concerned. You want bring up stupid stats? Let's see how you would feel if one of your family members was injured or killed while on the job and then come back to me with your stats routine. NO worker should be injured or killed over utter nonsense period and I'm not going into this about stats either. Everything with you is about stats and numbers. We're talking about people's lives here, not some stat.

 

And I guarantee you that if the B/O tases them, they'll be suing the MTA for a lot more than $2.25, and the B/O will have to deal with a whole lot of questioning and crap like that on top of it.

 

 

Okay fine, then let's hear your plan Mr. I Love Criticizing... What should be done?

[BrooklynIRT]

As long as you realize that they are only 'at their mercy' if they have no [effective] shield [and a large easy-open side window if you want to throw that in], it is all good.

 

I only put 'at their mercy' in quotes because several operators can guard themselves regardless of whether or not they have shields. Some do not like the shields. As an onlooker and avid observer, my stance remains unwaveringly in favor of the shields though.

 

The issue of [increasing] violence will be fixed for NYCT bus operators once every NYCT bus in service has a shield.

 

I do agree with what you said about how people feel they can act out in worse ways each time due to a lack of disciplinary action.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As long as you realize that they are only 'at their mercy' if they have no [effective] shield [and a large easy-open side window if you want to throw that in], it is all good.

 

I only put 'at their mercy' in quotes because several operators can guard themselves regardless of whether or not they have shields. Some do not like the shields. As an onlooker and avid observer, my stance remains unwaveringly in favor of the shields though.

 

The issue of [increasing] violence will be fixed for NYCT bus operators once every NYCT bus in service has a shield.

 

I do agree with what you said about how people feel they can act out in worse ways each time due to a lack of disciplinary action.

 

 

Of course I realize that... The real question here is why is the dragging their feet when it comes to protecting their workers?? They claimed that they were taking steps to do so, then complain and oppose them having tasers but how long would it take them to have the buses outfitted with shields if they were really as serious about protecting drivers as they claim they are?? Like I said if they stepped up to the plate in the first place we probably wouldn't be having this conversation right now. They have failed on many levels to keep violence from escalating in the system by not doing anything to deter the situations from occurring. Forget about the shields... What are they doing to make drivers feel safer other than the flimsy shield?? Put some undercover cops on patrol on certain lines and have them do random checks!! This is not rocket science. You want to de-escalate the situation?? You do so by doing things like I suggested with the random checks.

[Grand Concourse]

I blame it more on the political red tape and penny pinching. The obvious thing to do is make all buses have the partitions asap and spare no expenses. But this being the MTA, they feel that installing those cameras are good enough. That and how they usually have the 'blame the b/o first' mentality until their innocence is proven for any incident. Sounds like drivers are put under unnecessary shit for no reason.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I blame it more on the political red tape and penny pinching. The obvious thing to do is make all buses have the partitions asap and spare no expenses. But this being the MTA, they feel that installing those cameras are good enough. That and how they usually have the 'blame the b/o first' mentality until their innocence is proven for any incident. Sounds like drivers are put under unnecessary shit for no reason.

 

 

Exactly... The shields should be put in place first and THEN the cameras... Their priorities are so out of whack.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) Given this knowledge, they should know that they are taking chances by trying to enforce the fare. This should not be, but it is. This is just the way it goes and it is really not the end of the world if bus operators do not enforce it. They cannot write tickets and if they try to report it to console they have to go through drug tests and intense questioning (and I believe the interrogations are recorded) and fill out like 100 pages of paperwork just to get the farebeater detained. Or they have to fill out the paperwork after the farebeater is detained. Whatever. Either way they have to fill it out if they let console know about it.

 

2) In reference to comments that were made a while back about what bus operators should do when somebody does not want to pay (state that the fare is $2.25 or whatever), I support any and all decisions made in dealing with the person (short of physically harming the person), as long as the employee knows what might happen later. Hopefully nothing happens, but one still has to be prepared for what can happen. Decisions I support include the decision to say absolutely nothing and ignore the farebeater if the farebeater walks right by the box without saying anything, and I believe MTA needs to re-write its rule book to say that there is nothing wrong with the decision to say absolutely nothing and ignore those who beat the fare, pretending that they do not exist.

 

 

1) And I'm sure all that time and effort costs a lot more than $2.25.

 

2) There are a decent number of B/Os who don't say anything. I mean, if it was that "formal" (or whatever you want to call it) a rule, you'd be seeing a lot more drivers muttering "the fare is $2.25" or something, just as a formality, but a lot don't.

 

1) Oh don't play dumb. My eyes are my proof. I've seen plenty of incidents in my 30 years on this earth of hooligans getting on the bus, not paying their fare and then causing a sh*t load of problems. Just stop with your pretentious ignorance of the issue as if you don't know what goes on. It's quite sickening to be honest. If you don't know then fine, but I know what I see and have seen, so I'm speaking from experience.

 

2) One is too many as far as I'm concerned. You want bring up stupid stats? Let's see how you would feel if one of your family members was injured or killed while on the job and then come back to me with your stats routine. NO worker should be injured or killed over utter nonsense period and I'm not going into this about stats either. Everything with you is about stats and numbers. We're talking about people's lives here, not some stat.

 

3) Okay fine, then let's hear your plan Mr. I Love Criticizing... What should be done?

 

 

1) In terms of random people causing trouble and everything, yeah you probably see a higher percentage of farebeaters doing it than those who pay. But in terms of actually assaulting the B/O, do you honestly think that farebeaters are disproportionately responsible? Considering that there could be a variety of reasons why a person could be upset with the B/O (as BrooklynIRT said, they could've skipped their stop, or drove too slowly or whatever). Those things aren't unique to people who don't pay. I've had times when the B/O flagged me for no reason and when I caught up to them, I was steaming mad. Obviously, I didn't assault them (because I don't think being flagged by a bus is worth spending 7 years in jail, and aside from that the B/O can't drive me to my destination if he's injured, now can he?), but I could see any person getting angry over that.

 

If the B/O is purposely driving slowly and causing you to be late for work or whatever , I wouldn't consider it unreasonable to get angry. Obviously, nothing excuses hitting the B/O, but it isn't out of the question that the problem could lead to an assault.

 

2) Oh, so it doesn't matter if a passenger gets killed or seriously injured because it's just a stat. Is that right? You want to play that "How would you like it?" BS game with me? Well how would you feel if a friend or relative were tased to death because the B/O went overboard with defending himself? In an actual confrontation, do you really think every single B/O is going to remember from his training to what extent he should use the taser?

 

And I already said I'm not trying to downplay the situation, so cut the BS. Yes, nobody should be killed while doing their job. You happy now?

 

3) Like BrooklynIRT said, put good, strong shields around the B/O and make it so they can easily escape if there's a problem.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) In terms of random people causing trouble and everything, yeah you probably see a higher percentage of farebeaters doing it than those who pay. But in terms of actually assaulting the B/O, do you honestly think that farebeaters are disproportionately responsible? Considering that there could be a variety of reasons why a person could be upset with the B/O (as BrooklynIRT said, they could've skipped their stop, or drove too slowly or whatever). Those things aren't unique to people who don't pay. I've had times when the B/O flagged me for no reason and when I caught up to them, I was steaming mad. Obviously, I didn't assault them (because I don't think being flagged by a bus is worth spending 7 years in jail, and aside from that the B/O can't drive me to my destination if he's injured, now can he?), but I could see any person getting angry over that.

 

If the B/O is purposely driving slowly and causing you to be late for work or whatever , I wouldn't consider it unreasonable to get angry. Obviously, nothing excuses hitting the B/O, but it isn't out of the question that the problem could lead to an assault.

 

Of course there are various reasons why a B/O could get attacked, but don't sit here and pretend like a majority of the assaults aren't from farebeaters or dealing with fare issues because that is usually the case and you know it. In fact just about all of the assaults that I have heard of have been fare related.

 

2) Oh, so it doesn't matter if a passenger gets killed or seriously injured because it's just a stat. Is that right? You want to play that "How would you like it?" BS game with me? Well how would you feel if a friend or relative were tased to death because the B/O went overboard with defending himself? In an actual confrontation, do you really think every single B/O is going to remember from his training to what extent he should use the taser?

 

And I already said I'm not trying to downplay the situation, so cut the BS. Yes, nobody should be killed while doing their job. You happy now?

 

Yeah, funny how you had to say that weren't downplaying the situation beforehand... Anywho, so now you care oh so much about the passengers now as if innocent passengers are going to be tased left and right. What a load of BS. It's the passengers who are the reason that we're even having this conversation right now.

 

3) Like BrooklynIRT said, put good, strong shields around the B/O and make it so they can easily escape if there's a problem.

 

 

Yeah, but the shield only solves part of the problem. It doesn't deal with the issue of the increasing violence in the system and that's what I also asked about... Ahem... I'm waiting for your answer on that...

[Threxx]

Of course there are various reasons why a B/O could get attacked, but sit here and pretend like a majority of the assaults aren't from farebeaters or dealing with fare issues because that is usually the case and you know it. In fact just about all of the assaults that I have heard of have been fare related.

 

1. That's not true, they have been other reasons for assaults.

2. The operator should just press F5.

 

 

Yeah, funny how you had to say that weren't downplaying the situation beforehand... Anywho, so now you care oh so much about the passengers now as if innocent passengers are going to be tased left and right. What a load of BS. It's the passengers who are the reason that we're even having this conversation right now.

 

The passengers are humans too. There is nothing stopping a B/O from OD'ing with the taser and really hurting someone.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1. That's not true, they have been other reasons for assaults.

2. The operator should just press F5.

 

Dude, re-read the post...

 

The passengers are humans too. There is nothing stopping a B/O from OD'ing with the taser and really hurting someone.

 

 

Okay fine, so what's your plan then?