US Supreme Court upholds individual mandate, ObamaCare survives

[Tokkemon]

 

 

 

"The Supreme Court on Thursday upheld nearly all of President Obama's health care overhaul, in a landmark ruling that will have sweeping consequences for the economy, the election and America's health care system.

 

In a 5-4 decision, the court ruled as constitutional the so-called individual mandate requiring most Americans to obtain health insurance starting in 2014.

 

The ruling is a victory for the president, ensuring for now that his signature domestic policy achievement remains mostly intact. It also ensures that the law will play a prominent role in the general election campaign, as Republican candidate Mitt Romney vows to repeal the law if elected.

 

Obama is expected to speak publicly about the ruling later in the day.

 

Chief Justice John Roberts, who was appointed during a Republican administration, joined the four left-leaning justices on the bench in crafting the majority decision.

 

"The Affordable Health Care Act survives largely unscathed," Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, one of those justices, declared at the end of the reading, claiming the "setbacks" going forward will be "temporary blips, not permanent obstructions."

 

The ruling relied on a technical explanation of how the individual mandate could be categorized. Roberts, in the opinion, said the mandate could not be upheld under the Constitution's Commerce Clause. However, it could be upheld under the government's power to tax.

 

"The Affordable Care Act is constitutional in part and unconstitutional in part The individual mandate cannot be upheld as an exercise of Congress's power under the Commerce Clause," Roberts wrote. "That Clause authorizes Congress to regulate interstate commerce, not to order individuals to engage it. In this case, however, it is reasonable to construe what Congress has done as increasing taxes on those who have a certain amount of income, but choose to go without health insurance. Such legislation is within Congress's power to tax."

 

Roberts stressed that the decision does not speak to the merits of the law. "We do not consider whether the act embodies sound policies. That judgment is entrusted to the nation's elected leaders," he said.

The ruling did rein in one element of the law -- the expansion of Medicaid across the country to take in millions of low-income Americans. The opinion allows Washington to offer more funding to states to expand the program, but says the federal government cannot penalize states for not participating in the new program by withholding existing Medicaid funds.

Democrats, many of whom were bracing for the court striking down the mandate, celebrated the decision Thursday.

 

Rep. Charlie Rangel, D-N.Y., told Fox News that the ruling "gives us the opportunity to re-sell the the bill, which we did not do before."

 

But Republicans vowed to re-double their campaign to repeal the still-controversial law.

 

"Today's ruling underscores the urgency of repealing this harmful law in its entirety," House Speaker John Boehner said in a statement. "Republicans stand ready to work with a president who will listen to the people and will not repeat the mistakes that gave our country ObamaCare."

 

Justice Anthony Kennedy, who was thought to be the swing vote on the decision, joined the minority in describing the whole law as invalid.

 

"The act is invalid in its entirety," Kennedy said from the bench. He went on to say the administration went to "great lengths to structure the mandate as a penalty, not a tax" -- challenging the majority's rationale for upholding the mandate.

 

Despite the persistent resistance to the law and the possibility that it could still be repealed, the historic decision Thursday will offer some measure of vindication for Obama, who devoted the first half of his term to pushing it through Congress.

 

The overhaul was one of the central planks of Obama's 2008 run for president. The faltering economy only later took a leading role in the race as the financial markets spiraled around the time of the party conventions. Obama, after taking the oath of office, dispatched with his administration's recession response by swiftly passing through the roughly $800 billion stimulus package."

 

Read more: http://www.foxnews.c.../#ixzz1z6qjh9y3

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The SCOTUS opinion can be found here:

http://www.foxnews.c...e-read-opinion/

 

 

[Shortline Bus]

Looking at this from a political end. This is a huge victory for Team Obama and huge for his re-election chances.

Basically his entire Presidential term for last 3-plus years relied on it.

The GOP and Gov. Romney I am sure was going to use Obamacare as one of their campaign themes of the President's "FAILED Policies." Now it's back to the drawing board.

 

And also right after the ruling (I am sure some consertatives will forever hate Chief Justice Roberts a Bush Appointee) Romney and Tea Parties claim if they win the White House and Both Houses of Congress, they will 'repeal' Obamacare. I am sure MHV and VG8 will have a lengthy chat here for next little bit lol.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't have much to say other than the government has no business telling Americans that they must buy healthcare, and that's why the majority of Americans don't support ObamaCare, not to mention that 26 states appealed the law, citing a lack of money to pay for the increased costs. With the obesity rate skyrocketing, healthcare costs will continue to go up. Where is Obama at about getting Americans to eat better? All his wife does is talk about how important a balanced meal is but what good is that doing when it is estimated that about 75% of the population will be obese in the following years to come?? So the question is where are folks AND states supposed to get the money to pay for healthcare when 40 million Americans currently go without insurance? This will put a strain on small businesses to. Now I work for what would be considered a small business and they're pretty generous with what they cover, but still we pay a ton for healthcare coverage because it's a small business.

[SoSpectacular]

Tell people to stop wasting their money on fast food joints. Problem solved

[Shortline Bus]

I don't have much to say other than the government has no business telling Americans that they must buy healthcare, and that's why the majority of Americans don't support ObamaCare, not to mention that 26 states appealed the law. With the obesity rate skyrocketing, healthcare costs will continue to go up. Where is Obama at about getting Americans to eat better? All his wife does is talk about how important a balanced meal is but what good is that doing when it is estimated that about 75% of the population will be obese in the following years to come?? So the question is where are folks supposed to get the money to pay for healthcare when 40 million Americans currently go without insurance?

 

 

VG8 i don't think you were on NYCTF forums in 2010 when debate and controversial bill was passed and dont know your view on it till now. You aware Canada and most of Europe has national health care. So why not playing devils adovcate America?

The system for last 40-50 years here since President LBJ passed medicad/medicare in last decade or so has been a reason cities and states has been getting broke in this ongoing recession. What your solutions VG8 to cover the poor without medical insurance who want it? I do agree that forcing everyone to but healthcare insurance is a bit much.

[Shortline Bus]

Tell people to stop wasting their money on fast food joints. Problem solved

 

 

While that would help alot (i.e limit eating out or using condoms/safe sex or abstience for STD's etc. that would also save a ton of money)what about a diease like cancer which any of us can get?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

VG8 i don't think you were on NYCTF forums in 2010 when debate and controversial bill was passed and dont know your view on it till now. You aware Canada and most of Europe has national health care. So why not playing devils adovcate America?

The system for last 40-50 years here since President LBJ passed medicad/medicare in last decade or so has been a reason cities and states has been getting broke in this ongoing recession. What your solutions VG8 to cover the poor without medical insurance who want it? I do agree that forcing everyone to but healthcare insurance is a bit much.

 

 

Yeah and the problem is that forcing folks to buy it doesn't mean that it will lower the cost. Yes, Europe and Canada have free healthcare, and Europe and Canada both pay HIGH taxes for that coverage. I work with some Canadian translators and they are pissed that they are now paying higher taxes due to the flood of immigrants that are coming to Canada just to get free healthcare. The Canadians as a result are paying through the piper for it and the same is likely to happen here. We'll all be paying higher taxes, and the cost of healthcare won't necessarily be lower. Even the Supreme Court admitted in its ruling that ObamaCare is indeed a tax.

[Shortline Bus]

The taxes are thru the roof in Canada and Most of Europe w/ national health care and has problems ie. dying patients waiting a while for vital cancer treatment, etc. From visiting London and Canada, from what i remember National Health Care is good for going for dental appointment, vaccines for young kids, etc. Not good if you have a life terminal illness like Cancer or AIDS though.

 

 

. However for critics of Obamacare what the alternative solution to Obamacare? Romney has said he will repeal Obamacare if elected and yet as Mass. Gov he created healthcare for everyone in Mass. I dislike both parties opposing a bill or rule and yet do not offer new ideas/proposals.

 

The existing health system across the national and state/local levels was costing Trillions a year since it's more money for a patient to go to a local ER when visiting a clinic costed alot less.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The taxes are thru the roof in Canada and Most of Europe w/ national health care and has problems ie. dying patients waiting a while for vital cancer treatment, etc. From visiting London and Canada, from what i remember National Health Care is good for going for dental appointment, vaccines for young kids, etc. Not good if you have a life terminal illness like Cancer or AIDS though.

 

 

. However for critics of Obamacare what the alternative solution to Obamacare? Romney has said he will repeal Obamacare if elected and yet as Mass. Gov he created healthcare for everyone in Mass. I dislike both parties opposing a bill or rule and yet do not offer new ideas/proposals.

 

The existing health system across the national and state/local levels was costing Trillions a year since it's more money for a patient to go to a local ER when visiting a clinic costed alot less.

 

 

Well it is Obama's idea so he should be the one proposing changes. My main pet peeve is the mandate and I think it is unconstitutional to force Americans to buy healthcare.

[IntExp]

It's actually a defeat for the liberals, if you look at it from a long term, legal point of view. Note that this wasn't upheld under the commerce clause (under which Obama defended it), this was upheld under the taxation powers reserved by Congress - which is bad for liberals, because now Conservatives can paint it as a tax, and also because this could mean the first step in the rolling back on the expansive view of the commerce clause, which has been a Federalist Society dream for years. Roberts isn't stupid, he's a brilliant legal mind, and he knows what he's doing. By basing the ACA on the taxation clause, he basically said that this the end of an era, in which the government could regulate numerous activities under the Commerce Clause. So much legislation that was passed before, such as environmental regulations, civil rights acts (the 1965 Cvil Rights Act was upheld by SCOTUS not under the 14th Amendment, but by the Commerce Clause, in the case of Heart of Atlanta Motel v. United States), that is now open to attack now that SCTOUS took the first step in a long road in possibly narrowing down the Commerce Clause.

 

As for my reaction, I'm gleeful. Finally, we're on our way to leaving our status from being one of the last industrialized countries withut any sort of universal health care. I love it because most of the provisions benefit me: for example, I have several pre-existing conditions, so the ban on insurers discriminating people based on pre-existing conditions, either by denying coverage or charging higher premiums because of that. Also, the ban on putting a lifetime limit on health insurance spending is great, because the medicine and care I receive is expensive. The higher costs of bringing in more sick people will be balanced by bringing in people who aren't necessarily sick, thus balancing it out and cooling off any rate increases. That's just my takes.

[Shortline Bus]

Well it is Obama's idea so he should be the one proposing changes. My main pet peeve is the mandate and I think it is unconstitutional to force Americans to buy healthcare.

 

 

So VG8 you not ticked off at the dire changes to national health care in US. You agree that a national health system should open to anyone who wants it right even the poor? VG8 you seem pissed because of the forceded tax on all Americans by "Obamacare" right? You aware Gov. Romney when he was Mass. Gov also created statewide health care for all but I don't think it was a "forced tax" to citizens in Mass. though.(correct me guys if i am wrong)

VG8 never offered a solution to crisis before Obamacare.

[Tokkemon]

My thoughts on this are very complicated, esp. being Canadian and a conservative.

[VWM]

If republicans are so into this "god told me to do this" and "god approves this".... why don't they feed the poor like God told us to? smh

[Shortline Bus]

My thoughts on this are very complicated, esp. being Canadian and a conservative.

 

 

Actually Tokkemon at least for me i would very much like to hear your takes on the issue of national health care in US as both someone from Canada and a conservative. Please dont write a book here though lol.

 

And seriously awai,t VG8 answers. Man if VG8 does not have an answer there nothing wrong to saying so. I am sure if his taxes were not involved he would care about the health care issue ie. a family member getting cancer and can't afford treatment etc. What happen to common ground lol.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Actually Tokkemon at least for me i would very much like to hear your takes on the issue of national health care in US as both someone from Canada and a cosertative. Please dont write a book here though lol.

 

And seriously await VG8 answers. Man if VG8 does not have an answer there nothing wrong to saying so. I am sure if his taxes were not involved he would care about the health care issue ie. a family member getting cancer and can't afford treatment etc. What happen to common ground lol.

 

 

The solution is simple... Every Tom Dick and Harry should not be entitled to healthcare... Only LEGALIZED Americans as in American citizens... Part of the increased costs is coming from illegal immigrants running to the ER to get standard treatment and leaving Americans footing the bill. Socking small businesses and states with expenses that they can't afford isn't the answer either. States may go bankrupt because of this bill and you may have small businesses going out of business and making the unemployment situation even worse meaning fewer people to get taxes from to pay for this asinine bill. What's the alternative?? For starters repealing this bill... Then go from there. I'll be voting for Romney just for this bill alone since he has vowed to repeal it immediately when he comes into office.

[Shortline Bus]

The solution is simple... Every Tom Dick and Harry should not be entitled to healthcare... Only LEGALIZED Americans as in American citizens... Part of the increased costs is coming from illegal immigrants running to the ER to get standard treatment and leaving Americans footing the bill. Socking small businesses and states with expenses that they can't afford isn't the answer either. States may go bankrupt because of this bill and you may have small businesses going out of business and making the unemployment situation even worse meaning fewer people to get taxes from to pay for this asinine bill. What's the alternative?? For starters repealing this bill... Then go from there. I'll be voting for Romney just for this bill alone since he has vowed to repeal it immediately when he comes into office.

 

 

 

Then state you feel illegal immigrants aka mainly those crossing the border from Mexico is the cause of the health crisis and state Immigrantion is the most important domestic issue (besides the economy).

 

Still even in the 1980's before this, what about American born families who can't afford cancer treatments?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Then state you feel illegal immigrants aka mainly those crossing the border from Mexico is the cause of the health crisis and state Immigrantion is the most important domestic issue (besides the economy).

 

Still even in the 1980's before this, what about American born families who can't afford cancer treatments?

 

 

That's a separate issue... You have to first stop illegal immigrants from taking advantage of the situation and also find a way to make it so that small businesses and states aren't slammed with these sudden high costs. States are now being forced to provide Medicare for millions when they're already struggling to keep afloat as it is. Where do they find the tax dollars for this from?? They'll raise taxes on the folks struggling to make it...

[Roadcruiser1]

Then how about this. Have universal health care in the United States, but prevent illegal immigrants from having them. Have the law provide health care for legal immigrants and regular Americans. That would help it gain more supporters in the long run.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Then how about this. Have universal health care in the United States, but prevent illegal immigrants from having them. Have the law provide health care for legal immigrants and regular Americans. That would help it gain more supporters in the long run.

 

It would but that still doesn't deal with the mandate issue.

[SoSpectacular]

Lower class folks are already getting raped by taxes, something else needs to give

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well a mandate is not the answer.

[SoSpectacular]

I know people that are in dire need of health insurance that's affordable

[Fan Railer]

If republicans are so into this "god told me to do this" and "god approves this".... why don't they feed the poor like God told us to? smh

 

You're grouping conservatives too generally. You have fiscal conservatives and social conservatives. But I agree with your assessment of their overall hypocrisy. It's just that in a country that touts freedom of choice and expression, the inherent selfishness of human nature will almost always trump political and economic decisions, both on the individual level, and the corporate/governmental level, regardless of religious affiliation (or claimed affiliation). That is why I don't mind admitting that I'm a Christian, but I am more liberal leaning than not.

 

In respects to PPACA and the SCOTUS ruling on it, I do feel that the legislation is a necessary thing, although I don't feel that it goes far enough to lower healthcare costs. This is because of the existence of our free market system and the way that businesses feel they have to spend exorbitant amounts of money in order to advertise for business. <-- This is the majority of the reason why private healthcare is so expensive. Not only are these businesses in the field for the profit motive rather than the "let's do the right thing and help people" motive, but they also have to cover costs for their adds. If government healthcare was instituted on a wider scale, it could be made much more affordable seeing as the government does not need to advertise nearly as much, if at all, compared to the average private business. This is the liberal side of me speaking out on the issue, but let's not be biased.

 

While I do believe in my heart that universal healthcare is a good thing, based on the Constitution and the values that this country has held for the nearly two and a half centuries of its existence, the important part of obamacare is absolutely unconstitutional. As was stated before, the fee for not procuring healthcare has been stressed again and again as a penalty, not a tax. The Federal Government has no right under the Constitution to force anyone to buy anything, and to do so is infringing on the long held freedom to choose, and also to an extent, depending on your interpretation of the matter, their right to privacy. This kind of individual mandate is best left for states to decide on and legislate. The constituents of that state would know best whether or not the majority of people living in the state want this kind of healthcare, not the Federal Government.

[Fan Railer]

Lower class folks are already getting raped by taxes, something else needs to give

 

This is the issue I have with conservative policies. Our spiral down this economic nightmare began with the deregulatory policies of the Reagan administration, as well as the lowering of taxes on the extremely wealthy, also started by the same administration. Before then, everything was working fine and dandy, with the occasional mini-recession followed by stable growth. Then some conservative nuts in the government decided to deregulate banks of all entities, and allow them to squander capital like it was sand on the beach. And look where that has lead us?

[Roadcruiser1]

I think the ideal system would be similar to Brazil's. We should have a normal national health care covering everyone in the United States and then we will have premium health care for people that are willing to pay higher taxes, and for people that doesn't just want normal health care. That would work out pretty well and it would solve the worries of the conservatives while appeasing the liberals at the same time.