An Update in the 7 to NJ

[Roadcruiser1]

I've known some professional doctors, dentists, postal workers, etc. to do the reverse commute that actually come to NY to work in NJ. Exactly how many others remains to be seen

 

The problem is how many people in New Jersey would use it. Only 18,000 people live in Secaucus, and only 52,000 people live in Hoboken. If it ran to somewhere major like Newark with a population of 277,000 I would understand, but I don't know how much people would use the Secaucus extension. Most people using the extension to New Jersey would either be football fans, or shoppers. Even New Jersey's study predict that at best 128,000 people would use the extension a day. There are subway lines that currently have higher ridership than that. Even a Staten Island line would have higher ridership a day. The problem is would there be enough people to support it. That's why even though I didn't mean to be mean I said it's still backwater. There might not be enough people to warrant it!!!

[Roadcruiser1]

To add to what I said. I would support a subway extension to New Jersey after we extend the subway to Staten Island. We need to look out for our people first!!!!!!!!!!

[realizm]

To add to what I said. I would support a subway extension to New Jersey after we extend the subway to Staten Island. We need to look out for our people first!!!!!!!!!!

 

No doubt NJ would benefit more from this than NY'ers.

 

What jobs are there in Hoboken or Secaucus anyway that aren't already in NYC? Exactly.

 

It's about the money and cents.

 

Whats happening is that many people are migrating out of NYC living in other states *but* commuting to NYC where there is money to be made. Rents are cheaper out there, and with the pay given in NYC they are saving alot of dollars. This is why the railroad hubs are always extremely busy - people going to work - . Therefore I am sure a to Secaucus will get ridiculously high ridership. It may be higher then the Second Ave Subway. That's for sure.

 

How the fare collection will pan out between two states? Unsure. But I can tell you that NYS will have to foot the larger percentage of funds for the bills in terms of construction. But if they work things out with the governor of NJ, they will get the larger percentage of fare collection revenue (which will be high if this is actually pulled off) because technically the MTA will operate it. Operation costs has to get paid to keep this subway running.

[RailRunRob]

The problem is how many people in New Jersey would use it. Only 18,000 people live in Secaucus, and only 52,000 people live in Hoboken. If it ran to somewhere major like Newark with a population of 277,000 I would understand, but I don't know how much people would use the Secaucus extension. Most people using the extension to New Jersey would either be football fans, or shoppers. Even New Jersey's study predict that at best 128,000 people would use the extension a day. There are subway lines that currently have higher ridership than that. Even a Staten Island line would have higher ridership a day. The problem is would there be enough people to support it. That's why even though I didn't mean to be mean I said it's still backwater. There might not be enough people to warrant it!!!

NYC is rapidly closing in on 10 million not including the surrounding Metro Area. NJ is slated to grow in population by 25-30% by 2030. I think more riders will use the extension in the up and coming years. Im for Staten Island as well. but Geographly it's a way harder under taking. And at least with this New Jersey would fit the bill as well.. I think the issue is all the Borders CT,NY and NJ are all part of the metro area. I think  both NY and NJ benefit. If Jersey covers there part why not!! My take at least. 

[bobtehpanda]

The problem is how many people in New Jersey would use it. Only 18,000 people live in Secaucus, and only 52,000 people live in Hoboken. If it ran to somewhere major like Newark with a population of 277,000 I would understand, but I don't know how much people would use the Secaucus extension. Most people using the extension to New Jersey would either be football fans, or shoppers. Even New Jersey's study predict that at best 128,000 people would use the extension a day. There are subway lines that currently have higher ridership than that. Even a Staten Island line would have higher ridership a day. The problem is would there be enough people to support it. That's why even though I didn't mean to be mean I said it's still backwater. There might not be enough people to warrant it!!!

 

128,000 is a lot of people. Second Avenue itself is only projected to carry 200K in its first phase, and that involves way more expensive construction than a to Secaucus would (bedrock + most expensive property in the world does not make a good pair)

 

I'd also point out that under no circumstances would a subway extension to Staten Island be actually worth the money; routing through the would take far too long to reach to Manhattan, and the day New York City has enough money to drill under the Harbor for a straight-shot tunnel is the day Michael Bloomberg becomes obese, starts chain-smoking and drinks 7-Eleven Big Gulps.

[realizm]

128,000 is a lot of people. Second Avenue itself is only projected to carry 200K in its first phase, and that involves way more expensive construction than a to Secaucus would (bedrock + most expensive property in the world does not make a good pair)

 

I'd also point out that under no circumstances would a subway extension to Staten Island be actually worth the money; routing through the would take far too long to reach to Manhattan, and the day New York City has enough money to drill under the Harbor for a straight-shot tunnel is the day Michael Bloomberg becomes obese, starts chain-smoking and drinks 7-Eleven Big Gulps.

 

Construction of the SI tunnel will crate a real estate and business boom, in terms the population will increase, not decrease. Rents will skyrocket. Businesses local to the borough may grow and it will create more jobs, more people commuting, more traffic in a larger economic sector as a result. Which means higher revenue for the MTA. As history shows us in most areas where a rapid transit line is built causes growth in the areas that it serves.

[bobtehpanda]

Construction of the SI tunnel will crate a real estate and business boom, in terms the population will increase, not decrease. Rents will skyrocket. Businesses local to the borough may grow and it will create more jobs, more people commuting, more traffic in a larger economic sector as a result. Which means higher revenue for the MTA. As history shows us in most areas where a rapid transit line is built causes growth in the areas that it serves.

 

Keep in mind that all major transformations of neighborhoods due to subway lines occurred pre-1960s, when zoning only dictated building form so that sunlight could reach the street. In today's world, you would need to get through all the stakeholders and convince DCP to upzone Staten Island, which is very unlikely considering how anti-development many Staten Islanders are.

 

Zoning is the main reason why the proposal for a Red Hook streetcar was shot down; since the area was unlikely to get upzoned, DOT determined that it wouldn't really generate any economic benefits.

 

I'd also like to point out that people tend to not want to commute longer than an hour or an hour and a half. With Staten Island, a lot less of the borough would fall under this range since it is so far from any major centers of employment. It's a lot different than say, extending into the Bronx, or Queens, or Brooklyn, because those lines would be more effective at bringing more land area into an hour/hour-half commute range. This is especially true if you extend the , since that would be so slow that the current ferry setup would be faster.

[46Dover]

But I personally think the Gateway tunnel by Amtrak should suffice. I just can't see a subway line going to New Jersey from New York

[RailRunRob]

But I personally think the Gateway tunnel by Amtrak should suffice. I just can't see a subway line going to New Jersey from New York

Why not? what's the limit? It isnt geography all these jurisdictions and borders are man made. Doesn't seem to stop people from Working,Living ,Shopping and Traveling across these imaginary borders freely and daily. Why shouldnt regional transit work in the same way?  

[LTA1992]

If any new cross Hudson rail tunnel is made that isn't for Amtrak, it should be for PATH.

[Vistausss]

@realizm: I have to agree with bob on this one. Even though the bellmouths for the SI subway connection are there, it's not feasible because of the expense. What SI needs more is better SIR connections. That means reopening the North Shore branch. That will cause your big boom around the North Shore branch.

And while we're at it: a better way for SIR to connect to some outside destination would IMHO be Elizabeth, NJ. It's a big town and from what I know there are quite a few Staten Islanders heading there by car every day. Plus it's not that far away either and the extension would be relatively cheap compared to connecting to NYC.