bobtehpanda Posted January 31, 2014 Share #101 Posted January 31, 2014 Light rail was considered and rejected in a study of how best to use the North Shore alignment. The basic reason light rail was rejected was that bus service would attract greater ridership - it would run on multiple routes before climbing onto a North Shore busway, thereby saving prospective riders a transfer. That study had a major flaw, in that it insisted on extending every possible alternative from the existing right of way down the West Shore to the Teleport for some reason. There isn't much on that side of Staten Island to drive transit ridership, and the SIR never went down to Teleport in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share #102 Posted January 31, 2014 As I have said multiple times, the Rockaways have subway service to Manhattan (express at all times except late nights), and the line to the Rockaways was rebuilt after Sandy at considerable expense. Most Rockaway residents who commute to Manhattan do so by subway - the number of people who choose to use the highly subsidized express bus and ferry options is tiny in comparison. Given the high subsidies for those services, it is poor policy to expand them further without first assessing whether it would make more sense to spend that money elsewhere - perhaps on improved subway or local or bus service, either serving the Rockaways or serving other parts of the city. Light rail was considered and rejected in a study of how best to use the North Shore alignment. The basic reason light rail was rejected was that bus service would attract greater ridership - it would run on multiple routes before climbing onto a North Shore busway, thereby saving prospective riders a transfer. The segment of East River Ferry ridership that boards at the Williamsburg and Greenpoint stops and would otherwise ride the L is tiny in comparison to the ridership of the L - by which I mean that, if the ERF were to disappear tomorrow and all of its ridership would disperse onto the subway, the increase in ridership would not be noticeable. Now, the subsidy to the ERF is actually quite low, more in line with the subsidy to a local bus than to an express bus (this was a surprise to me), and I don't object to its operation. But trying to reduce subway crowding by running buses and ferries is like trying to drain a flooded Montague tube with a thimble. Buses could not possibly handle more than a tiny fraction of the subway ridership into and out of the Manhattan CBD. A subway system, however, requires ongoing investment to keep its physical plant in a state of good repair. You've been seeing the effects of underinvestment - the signals on much of the IND, for instance, are original to the 1930's, and the signals on parts of the Flushing line are even older (hence the project to replace them with CBTC). Last I checked, the MTA didn't cause Hurricane Sandy. That most of the system was up and running under a week after the storm - and would have been back even sooner if Con Ed had restored power to lower Manhattan earlier - was downright incredible. The steady platoon of hundreds of crush loaded buses running between Brooklyn and Manhattan could still not provide enough capacity to handle anywhere near the loads normally carried by the subway. If you think the subway is overcrowded, then trying to push people onto buses would only make the situation worse. The A has direct service to Manhattan at all times from the busier side of the Rockaways and during rush hours from the less-busy side. I suspect that most Neponsit residents who commute to Manhattan take the local bus to the subway (A or 2/5). Not everybody who rides the subway is poor, you know. It would take 25 express buses to carry the load of one single crowded D train. When we're talking crowded trains, buses simply can't substitute. You say tiny as if that's a shocker... Let's stop acting as if you're saying something that's amazing... Everyone knows that trains carry more people. It's not a new discovery. The point is that the subway doesn't serve everyone's needs (and when I say that I mean in general with regards to NYC residents) and for the people that aren't served by it the other modes of transportation, be it ferry service, express bus service and so on have worked in this city for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 31, 2014 Share #103 Posted January 31, 2014 New construction and resilience are two completely different things (and the 7 Line Extension only really exists because Bloomberg wanted an Olympics that he didn't end up getting). The overbuilding is exactly why Staten Island can support its diverse express bus options (and its geographic isolation means that building brand new tunnel at today's prices is poor value for money). The Rockaways has no overbuilding to speak of (unless if maybe you count NYCHA, but that's a stretch), so it doesn't have enough people to support ever more service. The ferry takes you directly to Wall St and Williamsburg (and you'll still have a Metrocard transfer). The express bus already serves Midtown and Midtown East, and the gets you to 8th Avenue (and with simple transfers gets you to the East Side). What options are they lacking, exactly? Dude know who your arguing with it's a lost cause he will never learn. Rockaway is deserted and has many options this is an express bus fanboy that uses no logical reasoning to justify why an express bus is needed in even places where it's not. Even if there is no demand for a line he still stands by it without reason. It's like talking to a wall. You say tiny as if that's a shocker... Let's stop acting as if you're saying something that's amazing... Everyone knows that trains carry more people. It's not a new discovery. The point is that the subway doesn't serve everyone's needs (and when I say that I mean in general with regards to NYC residents) and for the people that aren't served by it the other modes of transportation, be it ferry service, express bus service and so on have worked in this city for years. Just stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share #104 Posted January 31, 2014 Dude know who your arguing with it's a lost cause he will never learn. Rockaway is deserted and has many options this is an express bus fanboy that uses no logical reasoning to justify why an express bus is needed in even places where it's not. Even if there is no demand for a line he still stands by it without reason. It's like talking to a wall. Just stop. This coming from someone who tries to put every bus on the highway... Very credible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJC Posted February 2, 2014 Share #105 Posted February 2, 2014 That study had a major flaw, in that it insisted on extending every possible alternative from the existing right of way down the West Shore to the Teleport for some reason. There isn't much on that side of Staten Island to drive transit ridership, and the SIR never went down to Teleport in the first place.That was one of the objectives of the study, stated up front before it began. The time to object was then, not after the study was completed. The consultant carried out the study that was requested. You say tiny as if that's a shocker... Let's stop acting as if you're saying something that's amazing... Everyone knows that trains carry more people. It's not a new discovery. The point is that the subway doesn't serve everyone's needs (and when I say that I mean in general with regards to NYC residents) and for the people that aren't served by it the other modes of transportation, be it ferry service, express bus service and so on have worked in this city for years. Sigh. Did I ever claim that the subway served everyone's needs? Why, no, actually, I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 2, 2014 Share #106 Posted February 2, 2014 21 St-Van Alst actually gets good usage, just not at the hours you would expect Midday hours (around noon-ish) & right after the PM peak.... Never understood it myself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share #107 Posted February 3, 2014 Sigh. Did I ever claim that the subway served everyone's needs? Why, no, actually, I didn't. You sure as hell imply it in your posts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo19 Posted February 3, 2014 Share #108 Posted February 3, 2014 Deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.