R211 Discussion Thread

[Kamen Rider]

They’re probably not, at least not right away.

[FLX9304]

1 hour ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

No, SIR doesn't have high ridership in comparison to subway lines such as the E, F, and all the number lines.

All r211Ts need to go to Jamaica since it has the highest ridership.

Which is 2 10 car trains. 😂😂😂😂😂

Edited November 10, 2022 by FLX9304

[Kamen Rider]

The name “211T” is the name for all 211 gangway cars on the subway. The 211 option orders can be A (standard design) or T (gangway), which will be decided by the MTA once the 211Ts are in operation.

if they work out, all future orders might follow this design, including the R262s

[subwaycommuter1983]

11 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

Which is 2 10 car trains. 😂😂😂😂😂

For now,

but is very possible that the 2nd option order may be r211Ts if all goes well with the 2 ten car base order of r211Ts. 

[texassubwayfan555]

1 hour ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

if all goes well with the 2 ten car base order of r211Ts. 

Based on how long the R211A testing has been extended, I don't think this will happen.

[RandomRider0101]

6 hours ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

Based on how long the R211A testing has been extended, I don't think this will happen.

Just because the R211A testing period has been extended, doesn't mean the 211Ts won't do well in testing.

If anything, the extended testing period should ensure that the cars are reliable enough where we don't end up with another lemon delivery.

Don't forget that much of these delays have been caused by COVID; Most or all of the base order would've been in by now. Deliveries will now take longer than before due to supply chain/parts shortages. The economy is in shambles; These things are out of anyone's control. The only thing we can do is wait and be patient.

[FLX9304]

2 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

Just because the R211A testing period has been extended, doesn't mean the 211Ts won't do well in testing.

If anything, the extended testing period should ensure that the cars are reliable enough where we don't end up with another lemon delivery.

Don't forget that much of these delays have been caused by COVID; Most or all of the base order would've been in by now. Deliveries will now take longer than before due to supply chain/parts shortages. The economy is in shambles; These things are out of anyone's control. The only thing we can do is wait and be patient.

That’s Bombardier and their third party go figures that did that to the R179 if that’s what you’re referring “Lemons” to. Remember: R211s are well ahead of it’s time with everything from lights to mechanisms and other technology. The R211Ts are the first “articulated” subway car in the system. Both standards and OGYs should be the same way no matter what tracks they operate. 
 

the economy has nothing to do with the base order. 
 

[Kamen Rider]

they're not articulated, nor would they be the first...

[RandomRider0101]

31 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

That’s Bombardier and their third party go figures that did that to the R179 if that’s what you’re referring “Lemons” to. Remember: R211s are well ahead of it’s time with everything from lights to mechanisms and other technology. The R211Ts are the first “articulated” subway car in the system. Both standards and OGYs should be the same way no matter what tracks they operate. 
 

the economy has nothing to do with the base order. 
 

Yes the R211s are introducing new technology to NYCT; but that's even more of a reason to anticipate that they will have at least a few issues to be worked out. Also there's a difference between Articulated and Open Gangway.

The reason I mentioned the economy is because of inflation, which has made just about everything more expensive. My concern is that the parts for the R211s might become more expensive to produce now; I could be wrong though.

Edited November 11, 2022 by RandomRider0101

[LGA Link N Train]

43 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

Remember: R211s are well ahead of it’s time with everything from lights to mechanisms and other technology. The R211Ts are the first “articulated” subway car in the system. Both standards and OGYs should be the same way no matter what tracks they operate. 

Compared to other transit systems in the world, the 211’s would be well within its time. As for the 211T’s, Open Gangways doesn’t mean they’re articulated.

[RandomRider0101]

12 minutes ago, LGA Link N Train said:

Compared to other transit systems in the world, the 211’s would be well within its time. As for the 211T’s, Open Gangways doesn’t mean they’re articulated.

Another good point. Transit tech- wise, the U.S. is well behind the rest of the world, even with the R211s.

[texassubwayfan555]

5 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

the U.S. is well behind the rest of the world, even with the R211s.

Totally. The open gangways we speak of have existed since the 70s on the HK MTR, and almost every station has has PSDs RETROFITTED in them. Not to mention CBTC installed on most lines.

[Kamen Rider]

1: New York invented the concept with the D-types, it’s just after unification under the city they went with the IND’s design standards.

2: MTR is a smaller system who gets extra funding from being a real estate developer and being able to bid out to operate transit systems in other cities. For example, they are the contracted operator of London’s Elizabeth line.

It’s also a publicly traded company. You can be shares in the MTR.

3: going back to the basic issue, PSDs are going to be no go so long as there is not a single door standard on the system and even then they must be able to take into account different train lengths.

[texassubwayfan555]

2 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

You can be shares in the MTR

Yes I totally want to be a share of the MTR.

2 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

there is not a single door standard on the system and even then they must be able to take into account different train lengths

Once all the SMEEs are gone door placement will not be a problem. (Will be the same within each division.) Also can’t the PSDs detect the length of the train and selectively open?

Also in general there is no good excuse for the subway being so behind the time in technology.

Edited November 12, 2022 by texassubwayfan555

[LGA Link N Train]

2 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

3: going back to the basic issue, PSDs are going to be no go so long as there is not a single door standard on the system and even then they must be able to take into account different train lengths.

So these would be out of the Question?: 

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by LGA Link N Train
Remembered a 2nd video that was shared here

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Those barriers look like they need a lot of height in order to raise and lower properly, especially the one in the top video. I get the feeling a typical underground station in NYC built pre-MTA isn’t high enough to accommodate those barriers. Outdoor stations may be able to, but even then, would they be able to fit on the covered segments of the platforms?

[FLX9304]

12 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

Yes the R211s are introducing new technology to NYCT; but that's even more of a reason to anticipate that they will have at least a few issues to be worked out. Also there's a difference between Articulated and Open Gangway.

The reason I mentioned the economy is because of inflation, which has made just about everything more expensive. My concern is that the parts for the R211s might become more expensive to produce now; I could be wrong though.

 

[RandomRider0101]

14 hours ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

Totally. The open gangways we speak of have existed since the 70s on the HK MTR, and almost every station has has PSDs RETROFITTED in them. Not to mention CBTC installed on most lines.

Another good point I didn't mention here. Open Gangways aren't new, they're just new to the U.S.

In the case of the PSDs, that won't become a reality here until all subway cars in each division (A & B) are the same size and have the same size doors. Since both divisions will introduce 58-inch doors with their newest orders, we shouldn't expect to see PSDs in NYC for at least a few decades. Not to mention they will be very expensive to install throughout the entire system.

 

 

[RandomRider0101]

8 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

 

Not sure if this is sarcasm, but I guess it's fitting with the situation.

[texassubwayfan555]

1 hour ago, RandomRider0101 said:

until all subway cars in each division (A & B) are the same size and have the same size doors

Trains only need to be standardized within their division, (will happens when all SMEEs are retired.) and as long as the doors are in the same positions in all cars on the division then Platform doors will work.

[VIP]

4 hours ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

Trains only need to be standardized within their division, (will happens when all SMEEs are retired.) and as long as the doors are in the same positions in all cars on the division then Platform doors will work.

Unfortunately that’ll never happen even if the whole transit system is NTT. Different car lengths and now different door sizes…

[RandomRider0101]

6 hours ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

Trains only need to be standardized within their division, (will happens when all SMEEs are retired.) and as long as the doors are in the same positions in all cars on the division then Platform doors will work.

That's what I said; all cars within their division must be the same size, with the doors also being the same size. Even when all old techs are retired, all doors won't be the same size.

 

[texassubwayfan555]

49 minutes ago, RandomRider0101 said:

with the doors also being the same size

Did you look at the diagram I made? The train doors on the B (or A) division NTTs are all the the same places on the car regardless of door width.  The Platform Screen Doors will only need to be as wide as the widest train doors. (58 inches)

[RandomRider0101]

38 minutes ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

Did you look at the diagram I made? The train doors on the B (or A) division NTTs are all the the same places on the car regardless of door width.  The Platform Screen Doors will only need to be as wide as the widest train doors. (58 inches)

I didn't see it the first time, but I saw it this time. That actually makes sense to have the PSDs cover the biggest doors, while still being able to work with the smaller doors. I think that's the part where I was unsure; As long as that's not an issue, door placement and car size are the only things that need to match.

Edited November 12, 2022 by RandomRider0101

[texassubwayfan555]

The Main Obstacle to PSDs right now is 1. SMEEs (R68/As and R62/As probably have 10 more years of service left), 2. lack of CBTC, and 3. narrow platforms and pillars. In my opinion Platform Doors should still be heavily considered (All these people getting hit by trains every week) as more of these obstacles are removed.

Edit: At least NYCT had the foresight to standardized door position on each division since the NTTs came out.

Edited November 12, 2022 by texassubwayfan555