Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[subwaykid256]

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Queens Blvd / 74 St

Maurice - Calamus Avs/ 69 St

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Queens

Wyckoff Av/ Flushing Av ( via Jefferson St)

Wilson - Knickerbocker Avs/ Flushing Av (local)

Broadway - Bushwick Av/ Flushing Av  (express) 

Nostrand - Lee Avs/ Flushing Av (  via Marcy Av) (express)

Bedford Av/ Flushing Av (local)

Classon Av/ Flushing Av (local)

Clinton - Washington Avs/ Flushing Av (local)

Carlton Av/Flushing Av (local)

Gold - Navy Sts/ Nassau St (local)

Tillary St/ Jay St-Flatbush Av Ext  (via Jay St Metrotech) (express)

Henry St/Remsen St  (via Borough Hall) (express)

Manhattan

Hanover Sq (express)

Seaport (express)

Chatham Sq (local)

Grand St  (express)

2 Av - Houston St 

14 St/ 2 Av  (express)

23 St (local)

34 St/2 Av (local)

42 St/2 Av 

55 St/2 Av 

 to Astoria Park via 63 St

72 St/2 Av

86 St/2 Av

96 St/2 Av (local)

106 St/2 Av (local)

116 St/2 Av (local)

 to Co-Op City (local)

125 St - Lexington Av  ( via 2 Av)

125 St - Lenox Av 

125 St - St Nicholas Av 

 to Co-Op City (local)

Co-op City - Bartow Av 

Eastchester Rd/Gun Hill Rd 

Boston Rd/Gun Hill Rd  (local)

Bronxwood Av/Gun Hill Rd  (local)

White Plains Rd/Gun Hill Rd 

204-205 St/ Webster Av (local)

Bedford Park Blvd - Botantical Garden/Webster Av (express) MNR

Fordham Rd - Fordham University/ Webster Av (express) MNR

183 St - Junior/ 3 Av (local)

Tremont Av/ 3 Av (express)

Claremont Pkwy/ 3 av (local)

168 - 169 Sts/ 3 Av (local)

163 St - Boston Rd/ 3 Av (local)

156 St/ 3 Av (local)

149 St-Westchester Av (express) 

3 Av - 138 St (express) 

Manhattan

125 St/2 Av express 

 Broadway Junction - Astoria Park via 2 Av

Broadway Junction ACJL

Chauncey St/Broadway J

Halsey St/Broadway J

Gates Av/Broadway J

Kosciuszko St/Broadway J

Myrtle Av/Broadway/JM

Flushing Av/Broadway JMT

Lorimer St/Broadway JMG

Hewes St/Broadway JMG

Marcy Av/Broadway JM

Manhattan

Delancey St - Essex St FJM

2 Av - Houston St FT

14 St/2 Av LT

23 St/2 Av (local)

34 St/2 Av (local)

42 St/2 Av 

55 St/2 Av 

Roosevelt Island 

21 St - Queensbridge/41 Av 

Long Island City - 36 Av/21 St

 Broadway/21 St

30th Av/ 21 St

Astoria Park - 27 Av

 

 

[Amiri the subway guy]

On 8/1/2021 at 3:57 AM, subwaykid256 said:

Lines

 

Add Custom Line

 Route Diagram

Jackson Hts - Roosevelt Av 

Queens Blvd / 74 St

Maurice - Calamus Avs/ 69 St

Grand Av/ 69 St

Fresh Pond Rd/ Grand Av

Metropolitan Av/ Flushing Av

Queens

Wyckoff Av/ Flushing Av ( via Jefferson St)

Wilson - Knickerbocker Avs/ Flushing Av (local)

Broadway - Bushwick Av/ Flushing Av  (express) 

Nostrand - Lee Avs/ Flushing Av (  via Marcy Av) (express)

Bedford Av/ Flushing Av (local)

Classon Av/ Flushing Av (local)

Clinton - Washington Avs/ Flushing Av (local)

Carlton Av/Flushing Av (local)

Gold - Navy Sts/ Nassau St (local)

Tillary St/ Jay St-Flatbush Av Ext  (via Jay St Metrotech) (express)

Henry St/Remsen St  (via Borough Hall) (express)

Manhattan

Hanover Sq (express)

Seaport (express)

Chatham Sq (local)

Grand St  (express)

2 Av - Houston St 

14 St/ 2 Av  (express)

23 St (local)

34 St/2 Av (local)

42 St/2 Av 

55 St/2 Av 

 to Astoria Park via 63 St

72 St/2 Av

86 St/2 Av

96 St/2 Av (local)

106 St/2 Av (local)

116 St/2 Av (local)

 to Co-Op City (local)

125 St - Lexington Av  ( via 2 Av)

125 St - Lenox Av 

125 St - St Nicholas Av 

 to Co-Op City (local)

Co-op City - Bartow Av 

Eastchester Rd/Gun Hill Rd 

Boston Rd/Gun Hill Rd  (local)

Bronxwood Av/Gun Hill Rd  (local)

White Plains Rd/Gun Hill Rd 

204-205 St/ Webster Av (local)

Bedford Park Blvd - Botantical Garden/Webster Av (express) MNR

Fordham Rd - Fordham University/ Webster Av (express) MNR

183 St - Junior/ 3 Av (local)

Tremont Av/ 3 Av (express)

Claremont Pkwy/ 3 av (local)

168 - 169 Sts/ 3 Av (local)

163 St - Boston Rd/ 3 Av (local)

156 St/ 3 Av (local)

149 St-Westchester Av (express) 

3 Av - 138 St (express) 

Manhattan

125 St/2 Av express 

 Broadway Junction - Astoria Park via 2 Av

Broadway Junction ACJL

Chauncey St/Broadway J

Halsey St/Broadway J

Gates Av/Broadway J

Kosciuszko St/Broadway J

Myrtle Av/Broadway/JM

Flushing Av/Broadway JMT

Lorimer St/Broadway JMG

Hewes St/Broadway JMG

Marcy Av/Broadway JM

Manhattan

Delancey St - Essex St FJM

2 Av - Houston St FT

14 St/2 Av LT

23 St/2 Av (local)

34 St/2 Av (local)

42 St/2 Av 

55 St/2 Av 

Roosevelt Island 

21 St - Queensbridge/41 Av 

Long Island City - 36 Av/21 St

 Broadway/21 St

30th Av/ 21 St

Astoria Park - 27 Av

 

 

Nice plan how many tracks would your proposed 3rd Avenue line have. And would it be elevated. Where would it turn to 3rd Avenue from Webster Avenue 

[Amiri the subway guy]

The tragic tale of the BMT Eastern Division  

 

J/Z is basically the black sheep AKA the most neglected train line of the MTA (and you thought the G train was neglected) It might sound nuts to New Yorkers who ride the J train more out of necessity than for fun, . But the mostly elevated, century-old right-of-way affords unrivaled views and reaches under-appreciated but compelling destinations. It rubs shoulders with the “real” New York over more miles than any of its more honored rivals. J/Z is one of the least appreciated. It has no speedy sections like the stations-skipping A in Manhattan or the D in The Bronx. It lacks the newness of the No. 7 Hudson Yards extension or the Second Avenue Q. It’s no hipster hangout like the L through Williamsburg. Williamburg is changing and the Jamaica line is struggling to adapt. The MTA have done a crappy job of modernizing it. They made a bunch of minor improvement which although help they weren’t enough. HECK the M train getting rerouted to 6th ave which is a great alternative to the L train EVEN that wasn’t because of a ACTUAL PLANNED improvement but because of budget cuts it was needed to serve as a replacement for the V train that got eliminated in 2010

The Jamaica line is the oldest And yet, it gets no respect. The MTA has left the J out of a proposed $37 billion signal upgrade. WTF why is the J/Z getting excluded from the CBTC plan. The agency said it must “prioritize” — and the 190,000 daily riders of the J and its skip stop cousin, the Z, are the fewest of any major line in the system. To me the J/Z trains are like neglected children that aren’t taken proper care of the G train is like an abused child that often a punching bag for the MTA And the 7 L and to a lesser extent the A/C trains are like spoiled children that gets all of the luxury. The Jamaica line is over 100 years old maybe it should be added with a third track or rebuild it with 3 or maybe even 4 tracks.

The Entire BMT Eastern Division gets little if any respect from the MTA the L train was the first to get CBTC mainly cause it runs alone. Dont even want make real improvements to the J/Z train (no this does not include the R160s and R179s order cause they only got those trains cause the R32s and R42s were too old) They only made improvements to the M train cause they were FORCED TO (budget cuts and L train shutdown which later got downgraded into a half assed reconstruction project). The BMT eastern division deserves so much more than this.

[ActiveCity]

54 minutes ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

The tragic tale of the BMT Eastern Division  

 

J/Z is basically the black sheep AKA the most neglected train line of the MTA (and you thought the G train was neglected) It might sound nuts to New Yorkers who ride the J train more out of necessity than for fun, . But the mostly elevated, century-old right-of-way affords unrivaled views and reaches under-appreciated but compelling destinations. It rubs shoulders with the “real” New York over more miles than any of its more honored rivals. J/Z is one of the least appreciated. It has no speedy sections like the stations-skipping A in Manhattan or the D in The Bronx. It lacks the newness of the No. 7 Hudson Yards extension or the Second Avenue Q. It’s no hipster hangout like the L through Williamsburg. Williamburg is changing and the Jamaica line is struggling to adapt. The MTA have done a crappy job of modernizing it. They made a bunch of minor improvement which although help they weren’t enough. HECK the M train getting rerouted to 6th ave which is a great alternative to the L train EVEN that wasn’t because of a ACTUAL PLANNED improvement but because of budget cuts it was needed to serve as a replacement for the V train that got eliminated in 2010

The Jamaica line is the oldest And yet, it gets no respect. The MTA has left the J out of a proposed $37 billion signal upgrade. WTF why is the J/Z getting excluded from the CBTC plan. The agency said it must “prioritize” — and the 190,000 daily riders of the J and its skip stop cousin, the Z, are the fewest of any major line in the system. To me the J/Z trains are like neglected children that aren’t taken proper care of the G train is like an abused child that often a punching bag for the MTA And the 7 L and to a lesser extent the A/C trains are like spoiled children that gets all of the luxury. The Jamaica line is over 100 years old maybe it should be added with a third track or rebuild it with 3 or maybe even 4 tracks.

The Entire BMT Eastern Division gets little if any respect from the MTA the L train was the first to get CBTC mainly cause it runs alone. Dont even want make real improvements to the J/Z train (no this does not include the R160s and R179s order cause they only got those trains cause the R32s and R42s were too old) They only made improvements to the M train cause they were FORCED TO (budget cuts and L train shutdown which later got downgraded into a half assed reconstruction project). The BMT eastern division deserves so much more than this.

You're right, the J does need CBTC while the Z is considered non-essential.

[Amiri the subway guy]

On 7/26/2020 at 9:09 PM, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Short Term: Upgrade Capacity on the BMT Eastern Division. This'll involve resignalling the Williamsburg Bridge so that it can handle more than 24 TPH. Rebuilding Myrtle Junction so that Northbound Trains don't interfere with trains from both directions. Extending Peak Express service along the  to Broadway Junction so that we can do away with Skip Stop. Eventually, you'll need to extend the BMT Eastern Division station Platforms to 600' in order to accommodate 10 Car Trains in addition to having to expand East New York Yard. 

Long Term: Redesign Phase 3 so that 14th Street (2nd Avenue) is an "Express" Station. The planned layup tracks between 9th and 20th Streets should turn under East 3rd Street so that it can reach South 4th Street. This will include an additional Stop at Saint Marks Place. A new subway on South 4th Street/Broadway would be built to replace the current Elevated on the , and . 

or this. 

Here another way Modified the 2nd Avenue plan and have a 2nd Ave express line run via south 3rd street and cypress avenue in Williamsburg. The train would be called the K train. And expand BMT to 10 cars

 

[Amiri the subway guy]

I seem a proposal from a user called MottAveFarRockway. And I would just said that the proposals they made. WERE BEYOND STUPID. 

[Amiri the subway guy]

On 9/24/2020 at 3:20 AM, MottAvFarRockaway said:

Proposals

• Proposal A : Extend the W to 95 Street, and make the R terminate at Whitehall.
• Proposal B : Eliminate the D by extending the B's northern terminus to include 205th Street and making the B a full-time route.
• Proposal C : Eliminate the M and parts of the M will be served by E and F trains.
• Proposal D : Eliminate the J/Z skip-stop, and replace it with the J peak express.
• Proposal E : Include the K/T but run Chambers Street (K) or Metropolitan Avenue (T) to 95 Street and make it a full-time route, instead of a part-time route.
• Proposal F : Extend the G towards Flushing-Main Street and include an express counterpart, the H.
• Proposal G : Eliminate the Franklin Avenue Shuttle totally.

 

On 9/24/2020 at 7:55 AM, MottAvFarRockaway said:

I agree with A, D, E and F. Why you are disagreeing proposals B and C? The elimination of the D, M and Z services makes the system simpler and easier to use. The K imitates the brown <R> service, while the T is for trains running to Metropolitan Avenue via the Nassau-Fourth Avenue connection.

I propose a new West End Line service, the V, that should run exclusively only from 62nd Street to Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue on the West End Line. When that happens, it would use a periwinkle bullet and the remaining section from 62nd Street to Ninth Avenue and the connection to BMT Fourth Avenue Line must be demolished.

I know this is a year old but WHAT DRUG WERE YOU ON MAKING THIS 

[Amiri the subway guy]

Just now, Amiri the subway guy said:

 

I know this is a year old but WHAT DRUG WERE YOU ON MAKING THIS 

Seriously eliminating the D train just to make the B train 24/7 is an AWFUL IDEA DO YOU KNOW HOW IMPORTANT THE D TRAIN IS THE B TRAIN WOULD HAVE TO RUN EXPRESS AND LOCAL SCREWING UP SERVICE IN THE BRONX

 

Williamburg uses the M train to get to midtown. ELIMINATING THAT TRAIN IS ALSO IDIOTIC IDEA. 

 

Demolishing West end……. No……. NO NO NO NO JUST NO HELL NO!!!!!!!!! WHY?! JUST WHY!?!? WHY ARE YOU DEMOLISHING  THE WEST END LINE AND MAKING IT A SHUTTLE TO 62ND ST?! YOU ARE SCREWING PEOPLE THAT RIDE ON WEST END Have you even taken West End before?

Do you know how many REROUTES WERE ON THAT LINE. LITERALLY EVERY SOUTH BROOKLYN  HAS BEEN REROUTED THERE AT LEAST ONCE. B F M N Q R AND W TRAINS HELL EVEN THE J TRAIN. With its recent history. It’s BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT LINE IN SOUTH BROOKLYN 

[Amiri the subway guy]

Just now, Amiri the subway guy said:

Seriously eliminating the D train just to make the B train 24/7 is an AWFUL IDEA DO YOU KNOW HOW IMPORTANT THE D TRAIN IS THE B TRAIN WOULD HAVE TO RUN EXPRESS AND LOCAL SCREWING UP SERVICE IN THE BRONX

 

Williamburg uses the M train to get to midtown. ELIMINATING THAT TRAIN IS ALSO IDIOTIC IDEA. 

 

Demolishing West end……. No……. NO NO NO NO JUST NO HELL NO!!!!!!!!! WHY?! JUST WHY!?!? WHY ARE YOU DEMOLISHING  THE WEST END LINE AND MAKING IT A SHUTTLE TO 62ND ST?! YOU ARE SCREWING PEOPLE THAT RIDE ON WEST END Have you even taken West End before?

Do you know how many REROUTES WERE ON THAT LINE. LITERALLY EVERY SOUTH BROOKLYN  HAS BEEN REROUTED THERE AT LEAST ONCE. B F M N Q R AND W TRAINS HELL EVEN THE J TRAIN. With its recent history. It’s BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT LINE IN SOUTH BROOKLYN 

And just leave the R and W trains the way it is they no reason to make that unnecessary change. 

[Amiri the subway guy]

Sorry if I raged too hard I just wanted to make a point 

[Amiri the subway guy]

Just a strange question what are your opinions of the 2010 budget cuts

[Amiri the subway guy]

Why are they even considered budget cuts 

riders actually BENEFITED from the quote of quote “budget cuts” themselves

The Jamaica/Myrtle Avenue line got a one seat ride to midtown via the M train. Taking pressure off the L train. 

The Q train riders got a one seat ride to queens

And my opinion on train lines that got effected in 2010 
G train via Queens Blvd: Well it was great and the G train getting cut back to court square definitely contributed to its downfall people lost that one seat ride to queens and Brooklyn. 

W train: Let’s be honest The W train was nothing  but a waste of space since 2004 when Manhattan bridge project was finished. It was basically N trains running local in Manhattan and on a shorter route. The 2nd ave line opening actually gave the W train a purpose on Astoria and Manhattan 

V train: It was a decent train line. Although It was basically F trains running local in queens and on a shorter route to Manhattan. The.  Train was pretty much annexed into the M train in 2010. Think of the modern day M train as an extended V train. The V train isn’t needed anymore  when coming to the bottom line with how much people like the new M train route better seeing how the M train does a better job with midtown access in midtown the V train has NO MORE purpose on the 6th Avenue line 

Brown M train:  to be perfectly honest the Brown M train was very useless I mean it was basically J train running via Myrtle ave line. And it’s basically a glorified shuttle outside rush hours. Back then The majority of riders often transfer to delanacy st Essex st for F train service to get to midtown. Well the only major downside of the M rerouting is that M train riders did lose one seat ride to lower Manhattan and during rush hours southern Brooklyn , and even that isn’t really a loss especially when you consider the fact that Williamburg is demanding more midtown service lower Manhattan has a lower ridership Heck at Broadway Junction a handful of J/Z riders tracer to the A/C and/or L trains to get to midtown and in southern Brooklyn basically no one went EVEN DURING rush hours the trains were nearly empty and if they really want to get to lower Manhattan they can just transfer to the J/Z train. The J/Z aren’t even crowded so it doesn’t justify bring back the Brown M train. You would be pissing off a lot of Williamsburg and Bushwick riders that want to get to midtown

In conclusion the M and V train merge was a great idea. Railfans and Formers just need to accept the fact that the V and brown M trains are gone FOREVER.  Let’s all be happy that the W train is back. But don’t lose hope yet. Maybe the V train could come back as a additional 2nd Avenue line.

The brown M train is overrated I mean the Orange M train gets way too much hate UNNECESSARY HATE for that matter. Seriously The M train could be faster yes, The main reason for the hatred is because they either want the V and brown M trains back, or cause it ran in a loop and it ran in queens twice. Well the BROWN M TRAIN RAN IN BROOKLYN TWICE. So that’s just plain hypocritical. I mean the M train HELPS Northern Brooklyn get to midtown for CRYING OUT LOUD

[T to Dyre Avenue]

2 hours ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

Why are they even considered budget cuts 

riders actually BENEFITED from the quote of quote “budget cuts” themselves

The Jamaica/Myrtle Avenue line got a one seat ride to midtown via the M train. Taking pressure off the L train. 

The Q train riders got a one seat ride to queens

And my opinion on train lines that got effected in 2010 
G train via Queens Blvd: Well it was great and the G train getting cut back to court square definitely contributed to its downfall people lost that one seat ride to queens and Brooklyn. 

W train: Let’s be honest The W train was nothing  but a waste of space since 2004 when Manhattan bridge project was finished. It was basically N trains running local in Manhattan and on a shorter route. The 2nd ave line opening actually gave the W train a purpose on Astoria and Manhattan 

V train: It was a decent train line. Although It was basically F trains running local in queens and on a shorter route to Manhattan. The.  Train was pretty much annexed into the M train in 2010. Think of the modern day M train as an extended V train. The V train isn’t needed anymore  when coming to the bottom line with how much people like the new M train route better seeing how the M train does a better job with midtown access in midtown the V train has NO MORE purpose on the 6th Avenue line 

Brown M train:  to be perfectly honest the Brown M train was very useless I mean it was basically J train running via Myrtle ave line. And it’s basically a glorified shuttle outside rush hours. Back then The majority of riders often transfer to delanacy st Essex st for F train service to get to midtown. Well the only major downside of the M rerouting is that M train riders did lose one seat ride to lower Manhattan and during rush hours southern Brooklyn , and even that isn’t really a loss especially when you consider the fact that Williamburg is demanding more midtown service lower Manhattan has a lower ridership Heck at Broadway Junction a handful of J/Z riders tracer to the A/C and/or L trains to get to midtown and in southern Brooklyn basically no one went EVEN DURING rush hours the trains were nearly empty and if they really want to get to lower Manhattan they can just transfer to the J/Z train. The J/Z aren’t even crowded so it doesn’t justify bring back the Brown M train. You would be pissing off a lot of Williamsburg and Bushwick riders that want to get to midtown

In conclusion the M and V train merge was a great idea. Railfans and Formers just need to accept the fact that the V and brown M trains are gone FOREVER.  Let’s all be happy that the W train is back. But don’t lose hope yet. Maybe the V train could come back as a additional 2nd Avenue line.

The brown M train is overrated I mean the Orange M train gets way too much hate UNNECESSARY HATE for that matter. Seriously The M train could be faster yes, The main reason for the hatred is because they either want the V and brown M trains back, or cause it ran in a loop and it ran in queens twice. Well the BROWN M TRAIN RAN IN BROOKLYN TWICE. So that’s just plain hypocritical. I mean the M train HELPS Northern Brooklyn get to midtown for CRYING OUT LOUD

The  service operations that resulted from the 2010 service cuts looked like a no-brainer on paper. However, in practice, it was a shitshow because of the multiple merge points. First, you had the  and  merging with the  at the 60th St tunnel. Then the  switched off to the express tracks at 34th. Then the  merged back in with the  at Prince. Then, DeKalb with all of its merging problems. The whole thing was plagued with delays. Everywhere. It was a very slow crawl between 34th and Lexington-59th with  and  trains all on the local tracks. It’s bad enough now (and before 2010) how the 34th merge delays the whole Broadway Line. But just imagine having merging both at the 34th and the Prince switches at the same time. That was the 2010-16 Broadway Line. It wasn’t very beneficial to a lot of people. Let’s just say I and a lot of other posters on here were elated when the  came back in November 2016 in preparation for the extension of the  to 2nd Ave. 

I’ll agree with you that the current  service is better than the old . The old service carried more air than people and I really don’t know why there seems to be so much clamoring on here for the separate  and  services to come back. 

I think the ‘s one-seat ride between Brooklyn and Queens was a bit overstated. It was not a hugely popular service when it did run there. And given that the QB Line is the second busiest in the system, with an overwhelming rider preference for Midtown Manhattan service, bringing back the  to Queens Blvd would benefit a relatively small number of riders. It would probably be even less popular if it were brought back than it was in 2001 when weekday  service was cut back to Court Square to make room for the .

[Amiri the subway guy]

1 hour ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

The  service operations that resulted from the 2010 service cuts looked like a no-brainer on paper. However, in practice, it was a shitshow because of the multiple merge points. First, you had the  and  merging with the  at the 60th St tunnel. Then the  switched off to the express tracks at 34th. Then the  merged back in with the  at Prince. Then, DeKalb with all of its merging problems. The whole thing was plagued with delays. Everywhere. It was a very slow crawl between 34th and Lexington-59th with  and  trains all on the local tracks. It’s bad enough now (and before 2010) how the 34th merge delays the whole Broadway Line. But just imagine having merging both at the 34th and the Prince switches at the same time. That was the 2010-16 Broadway Line. It wasn’t very beneficial to a lot of people. Let’s just say I and a lot of other posters on here were elated when the  came back in November 2016 in preparation for the extension of the  to 2nd Ave. 

I’ll agree with you that the current  service is better than the old . The old service carried more air than people and I really don’t know why there seems to be so much clamoring on here for the separate  and  services to come back. 

I think the ‘s one-seat ride between Brooklyn and Queens was a bit overstated. It was not a hugely popular service when it did run there. And given that the QB Line is the second busiest in the system, with an overwhelming rider preference for Midtown Manhattan service, bringing back the  to Queens Blvd would benefit a relatively small number of riders. It would probably be even less popular if it were brought back than it was in 2001 when weekday  service was cut back to Court Square to make room for the .

Thanks for this great feedback 

You make a EXCELLENT point there the W train definitely needed to return. The interlining may be bad today but it was EVEN worse in 2010-2016. So the W trains return was kinda like a semi deinterling zone on prince street. I would love to see rush hour W train extended to bay parkway via west end. Maybe that could help support the R train

Yes the former brown M train was empty. EVEN DURING RUSH HOURS. I still do not know why railfans are demanding to bring back a useless defunct train route just look at the measures these idiots are willing to go🤦‍♂️🤦:https://www.change.org/p/mta-help-bring-back-the-mta-v-train

Listen railfans and Formers we know y’all hate change but ITS TIME YALL MOVED ON AND LET GO. The brown M train and V train are gone FOREVER. At this point the only way the V train will EVER come back is if the 2nd Avenue line is expanded to Queens Brooklyn and/or the Bronx. The orange M train with a serious alternative needed for the crowded L train. Yeah the M train is definitely gonna stay on the 6th Avenue line. The MTA will not bring back useless defunct train routes just to satisfy nostalgia fanboys. If you ask me. They should just be GRATEFUL the MTA decided to bring back the W train. 

Perhaps we overestimated the realible of the G train on queens blvd. It’s was kinda a waste to have the G train run on queens blvd when the demand to midtown Manhattan was much higher I also wonder if the G train could be extended to the Bronx creating a subway triboro line

[ActiveCity]

I still don't understand why there is no form of Nassau St service on the 4th Ave subway in 2021, it really boggles my mind. Sure, it may have carried air, but we'll need that extra capacity for an improved NYC Subway.

Edited August 5, 2021 by ActiveCity

[Vulturious]

24 minutes ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

Thanks for this great feedback 

You make a EXCELLENT point there the W train definitely needed to return. The interlining may be bad today but it was EVEN worse in 2010-2016. So the W trains return was kinda like a semi deinterling zone on prince street. I would love to see rush hour W train extended to bay parkway via west end. Maybe that could help support the R train

Yes the former brown M train was empty. EVEN DURING RUSH HOURS. I still do not know why railfans are demanding to bring back a useless defunct train route just look at the measures these idiots are willing to go🤦‍♂️🤦:https://www.change.org/p/mta-help-bring-back-the-mta-v-train

Listen railfans and Formers we know y’all hate change but ITS TIME YALL MOVED ON AND LET GO. The brown M train and V train are gone FOREVER. At this point the only way the V train will EVER come back is if the 2nd Avenue line is expanded to Queens Brooklyn and/or the Bronx. The orange M train with a serious alternative needed for the crowded L train. Yeah the M train is definitely gonna stay on the 6th Avenue line. The MTA will not bring back useless defunct train routes just to satisfy nostalgia fanboys. If you ask me. They should just be GRATEFUL the MTA decided to bring back the W train. 

Perhaps we overestimated the realible of the G train on queens blvd. It’s was kinda a waste to have the G train run on queens blvd when the demand to midtown Manhattan was much higher I also wonder if the G train could be extended to the Bronx creating a subway triboro line

I agree 100% about  trains being extended and return to West End to Bay Parkway for rush hours (maybe more if it becomes popular). I've ridden West End my entire life and having to take the  pre-COVID was honestly a little bit hellish. Waiting times on the  weren't exactly the greatest, sometimes you had to wait up to an hour for one to pass by because every other train had to run express because of it either running late (thank you current interlining such as Dekalb junction and CPW) or some other line running late ( trains is usually the one at fault when that happens, it sucks in Brooklyn). Even with  trains running to Bay Parkway during rush hours, it honestly saved me a bunch of times when I wanted to get around along West End. Of course, it does carry air so I can't praise entirely and did in a way make  trains run a little worse because it was another line that had to get in its way. However, the  to Bay Parkway might actually help it out more, not just on West End, but at least make it so  trains don't have to deal with the 's bs or other lines getting in its way. It also would have direct access to CIY, but of course it already does when running on the  to 86 St. 

I'm going to bring something that was posted in another thread recently and the talk about bringing back lines that are practically useless really puts this into perspective. The current  is 100% more useful compared to the  and  combined since that is what it essentially is. However, the only reason why the  exists (and not because people are more familiar with the M's name) is because of budget cuts. We can't praise the  for such move, it only happened because of the budget cuts. Even with it alleviating the  and making it a definitely better alternative to the crowded line, the  doesn't make moves unless it's needed. It's the whole reason why the  was brought back in the first place, to help out Astoria residence because the  had to move somewhere else and the same with the  existing.

As for the  to the Bronx running a Subway Triboro line, I'm tempted to agree to this proposal. However, I personally feel there are better options. I've gone ahead with saying this before, but maybe having the  running to Manhattan with another Crosstown line (lets call it the (X) for placeholding purposes or it being an actual line) running along 34 St. All subway lines, except for Lexington Av line, stops at 34 St. It would be very beneficial for not only the  and (X), but would allow for other things to take into effect.  trains along Culver might be able to actually run express since there is another train running to Midtown now, while this (X) train takes all stops that  used to take (which is mainly the Queens stations including along QBL). Maybe this (X) line would run to Jamaica-179 St to allow for both the  and  to terminate at Forest Hills and it also would be short enough. Onto the Bronx extension, we could have the  extended through Rikers Island. I say this because the place is planned on being shutdown with 4 new smaller prisons across NYC as a replacement. I can definitely see gentrification waiting to happen on Rikers and thought why not take advantage of the situation. Extending not only the , but the  as well running underground when inside Rikers and then underneath LGA.

[bobtehpanda]

13 minutes ago, ActiveCity said:

I still don't understand why there is no form of Nassau St service on the 4th Ave subway in 2021, it really boggles my mind. Sure, it may have carried air, but we'll need that extra capacity for an improved NYC Subway.

If no one uses the extra capacity that doesn't really help, does it?
The 4th Av really proves the point of "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."

 

12 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

As for the  to the Bronx running a Subway Triboro line, I'm tempted to agree to this proposal. However, I personally feel there are better options. I've gone ahead with saying this before, but maybe having the  running to Manhattan with another Crosstown line (lets call it the (X) for placeholding purposes or it being an actual line) running along 34 St.

This is not possible to build, because of the railroad tracks in that area.

34th St is also really at the southern end of Midtown, so most people would still transfer to get to their final destination. It doesn't help too much.

[Caelestor]

The BMT through Midtown is currently not at its full capacity. Broadway is under capacity because of the  express to local merge at 34 St, and the 8 Ave Line only has 3 services. While it can be argued that 8 Ave doesn't need its 4th service at the moment, Broadway really needs to be decongested and so the  needs to be sent up 63 St in some manner. My preference is to send it to 96 St, but I can understand rerouting it to QBL since the  will serve Astoria full-time and the WTC - QB  service may not be available due to budget reasons.

The  is definitely more useful than the  but long-term it restricts capacity along the Rutgers tunnel and so there should be some long-term discussions on rerouting the Jamaica Line uptown, perhaps up 2 Ave. It may be the only way to add new trunk capacity through Midtown, as the key impediment to adding a new trunk line has always been a new East River crossing. With lower Nassau St temporarily removed from service, the line can be rehabilitated to link up to a 2 Ave express line or a 3 Ave relief line instead. There could also be a discussion on sending the Broadway local at Whitehall St onto the Fulton St local and connecting Nassau St to the 4 Ave local full time.

[Vulturious]

2 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

This is not possible to build, because of the railroad tracks in that area.

34th St is also really at the southern end of Midtown, so most people would still transfer to get to their final destination. It doesn't help too much.

Yeah, I know about the railroad tracks that are in the area, but they run along 32 and 33 St which technically means they can run subway service underneath 34 St which'll be hard to construct of course.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

15 hours ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

Thanks for this great feedback 

You make a EXCELLENT point there the W train definitely needed to return. The interlining may be bad today but it was EVEN worse in 2010-2016. So the W trains return was kinda like a semi deinterling zone on prince street. I would love to see rush hour W train extended to bay parkway via west end. Maybe that could help support the R train

Yes the former brown M train was empty. EVEN DURING RUSH HOURS. I still do not know why railfans are demanding to bring back a useless defunct train route just look at the measures these idiots are willing to go🤦‍♂️🤦:https://www.change.org/p/mta-help-bring-back-the-mta-v-train

Listen railfans and Formers we know y’all hate change but ITS TIME YALL MOVED ON AND LET GO. The brown M train and V train are gone FOREVER. At this point the only way the V train will EVER come back is if the 2nd Avenue line is expanded to Queens Brooklyn and/or the Bronx. The orange M train with a serious alternative needed for the crowded L train. Yeah the M train is definitely gonna stay on the 6th Avenue line. The MTA will not bring back useless defunct train routes just to satisfy nostalgia fanboys. If you ask me. They should just be GRATEFUL the MTA decided to bring back the W train. 

Perhaps we overestimated the realible of the G train on queens blvd. It’s was kinda a waste to have the G train run on queens blvd when the demand to midtown Manhattan was much higher I also wonder if the G train could be extended to the Bronx creating a subway triboro line

The best way to support the  is by either deinterlining Broadway and DeKalb or adding another train via the Montague Tunnel that runs alongside the  down to at least 59th Street, which a  via West End would not be able to do.

As for the , well, I came up with an  proposal a couple years back. It would have removed the  from QB and called for the  and  express via 53rd with an 18/12 split in favor of the , while running the  and  local via 63rd, split evenly at 8 tph apiece with no merging in LIC. The  and  would continue into Brooklyn via the Rutgers Tunnel. But I found that proposal would have run into a lot of problems. With the  and  at 28 tph total on the local in Manhattan, the only way it could work was if nothing ever went wrong on the 6th or 8th Ave lines. And we all know that something always goes wrong on both lines. But worse, there could only 46 rush hour tph each way split between the four services, which would have left QB with a lot of underused capacity. So I decided that idea was no good. So that was my last-ditch effort to come up with an idea to revive the  without bringing back the old . The only things I can think of now for reviving the V are either as a second SAS service or as some sort of crosstown service. And for QBL, I'm now in favor of a de-interlined, but reverse-branched QBL with the  and  running local to/from 71st Ave via 53rd and the  and  running express to/from Jamaica via 63rd. Though I do wonder if a ( V ) service via 2nd Ave can fit into that plan in some way. Maybe do that in place of the .

12 hours ago, Caelestor said:

The BMT through Midtown is currently not at its full capacity. Broadway is under capacity because of the  express to local merge at 34 St, and the 8 Ave Line only has 3 services. While it can be argued that 8 Ave doesn't need its 4th service at the moment, Broadway really needs to be decongested and so the  needs to be sent up 63 St in some manner. My preference is to send it to 96 St, but I can understand rerouting it to QBL since the  will serve Astoria full-time and the WTC - QB  service may not be available due to budget reasons.

The  is definitely more useful than the  but long-term it restricts capacity along the Rutgers tunnel and so there should be some long-term discussions on rerouting the Jamaica Line uptown, perhaps up 2 Ave. It may be the only way to add new trunk capacity through Midtown, as the key impediment to adding a new trunk line has always been a new East River crossing. With lower Nassau St temporarily removed from service, the line can be rehabilitated to link up to a 2 Ave express line or a 3 Ave relief line instead. There could also be a discussion on sending the Broadway local at Whitehall St onto the Fulton St local and connecting Nassau St to the 4 Ave local full time.

This is true. Even if QBL is de-interlined, there can only be so much  service operated if the  is there. My current preferred solution for QBL is to have the  and  run local to/from 71st and via 53rd, with the  and  (or another Broadway service) run express via 63rd. By splitting the  and  completely, it would make it possible to run more service on both, say at 18 tph apiece. That would then make it possible to run more  service in Brooklyn. But by running that much more service, especially at 71st, you'd have to ensure they move those trains out much quicker than they do. I estimate roughly 26-28 tph on the local and 28 on the express. That's 54-56 total tph, more than the current service and more than the  plan I favored a couple years ago (see above response to Amiri).

Are you suggesting rerouting the M up 2nd Ave all the way to East Harlem/Bronx? Or would it be turning off into the 63rd St Tunnel or a new tunnel into Queens?

 

14 hours ago, ActiveCity said:

I still don't understand why there is no form of Nassau St service on the 4th Ave subway in 2021, it really boggles my mind. Sure, it may have carried air, but we'll need that extra capacity for an improved NYC Subway.

 

14 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

If no one uses the extra capacity that doesn't really help, does it?
The 4th Av M really proves the point of "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."

 

After reading about the Mayor's "plans" for the BQE (and I put plans in quotes, because he's pretty much kicking the can down the road with only five months left in office), I remembered reading a post on Vanshnookenraggen's blog about how the subways in South Brooklyn might be able to be of help if the BQE is closed for long-term reconstruction in Brooklyn Heights. This was from a couple years ago - https://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index/2018/10/we-dont-need-to-replace-the-bqe-but-we-will/ . This scenario is likely the best way we would see the extra 4th Ave Local/Montague capacity used, at least temporarily. Of course, that would assume we would have a DOT and MTA willing to be partners, which we all know is just not how either agency does things.

 

14 hours ago, Vulturious said:

I agree 100% about  trains being extended and return to West End to Bay Parkway for rush hours (maybe more if it becomes popular). I've ridden West End my entire life and having to take the  pre-COVID was honestly a little bit hellish. Waiting times on the  weren't exactly the greatest, sometimes you had to wait up to an hour for one to pass by because every other train had to run express because of it either running late (thank you current interlining such as Dekalb junction and CPW) or some other line running late ( trains is usually the one at fault when that happens, it sucks in Brooklyn). Even with  trains running to Bay Parkway during rush hours, it honestly saved me a bunch of times when I wanted to get around along West End. Of course, it does carry air so I can't praise entirely and did in a way make  trains run a little worse because it was another line that had to get in its way. However, the  to Bay Parkway might actually help it out more, not just on West End, but at least make it so  trains don't have to deal with the 's bs or other lines getting in its way. It also would have direct access to CIY, but of course it already does when running on the  to 86 St. 

I'm going to bring something that was posted in another thread recently and the talk about bringing back lines that are practically useless really puts this into perspective. The current  is 100% more useful compared to the  and  combined since that is what it essentially is. However, the only reason why the  exists (and not because people are more familiar with the M's name) is because of budget cuts. We can't praise the MTA for such move, it only happened because of the budget cuts. Even with it alleviating the L and making it a definitely better alternative to the crowded line, the MTA doesn't make moves unless it's needed. It's the whole reason why the W was brought back in the first place, to help out Astoria residence because the Q had to move somewhere else and the same with the M existing.

As for the G to the Bronx running a Subway Triboro line, I'm tempted to agree to this proposal. However, I personally feel there are better options. I've gone ahead with saying this before, but maybe having the G running to Manhattan with another Crosstown line (lets call it the (X) for placeholding purposes or it being an actual line) running along 34 St. All subway lines, except for Lexington Av line, stops at 34 St. 

TBH, if you really want to help the , it's better to have the  service continue on the local south of 36th Street, so it can serve the well-used 45th and 53rd St stations. Even better would be to go all the way to Bay Ridge since 86th Street is also a well-used station. A West End  wouldn't be able to stop at any of them. A de-interlined DeKalb Jct and CPW Line would make the  run more reliably. 

Yes, I was surprised the  actually became a thing as part of the 2010 cuts. An earlier 2009 proposed cuts plan called for eliminating the  and turning the  at Broad, while leaving the  as it was. But then the State came through with emergency funding, so the cuts were staved off for a year and revised. Either way, South Brooklyn was going to lose its Nassau St service.

Maybe have the  and ( X ) run further north, like on 50th Street. That would connect with every line too, well except the 7th Ave, Broadway and Lexington Ave express trains. But I'm not sure about funneling the ( X ) onto the QBL to 179th Street. It would require connecting a fourth tunnel into the QBL, which has enough problems with all the merging caused by funneling four lines into three tunnels. Maybe the ( X ) can run on its own line through North Queens, perhaps Northern Blvd.

Edited August 5, 2021 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Amiri the subway guy]

The 2nd Avenue history of failures and regrets
 

We cannot denied the fact the current 2nd ave plan It’s filled with wasted potential LEFT and RIGHT.  I mean the biggest flaw is that there no express tracks HECK they isn’t even a third track that could be used for emergencies.  

If something goes wrong on a 3-4 track line while it would cause delays as least the train can be rerouted to the local or express tracks Meanwhile if something goes wrong at one station on a 2 track line THE ENTIRE LINE is screwed up. They didn’t even try to make room for the express tracks to be added later. At the very least they could have make a plan that don’t require express tracks to be build immediately but allows for them to be added later

My only hope is that AT LEAST midtown will be build with provisions for express tracks. Further more it infamously know for being UNNECESSARY EXPENSIVE. Phase 1 alone costed $4.45 billion. LET THAT SINK IN. 3 stations alone costed 4.45 billion dollars.  
 

The MTA should’ve not gotten rid of the 3rd Avenue elevated line. It could’ve instead been converted to IND saving BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in a Bronx expansion of 2nd Avenue. But nope. And now the 3rd Ave corridor is paying the awful price for that mistake. 
 

phase 3 is going to be expensive no matter what so their is no point in trying to half ass it to be cheap. Phase 4 for example will cost 1 billion dollars per station. YET it’s  isolated from the rest of lower Manhattan. SERIOUSLY so we just wasting money on a phase that won’t even be connected to the rest of the network. 

I posted this on another post but here
 

The 2nd ave line won’t add any new captivity to the system, as  matter of fact the current plan for 2nd Av LITERALLY REQUIRES riders to use multiple stairs long corridors and transfer to multiple train routes

Phase 1-2 is ok

Phase 3 is Poorly designed

Phase 4 is kinda unnecessary and might not even need to exist

Not to mention that the current plan only helps people in the east side of Manhattan travel a bit better. It does practically NOTHING for riders from The Bronx Queens or Brooklyn.

 

And we can’t even connect the 2nd Avenue line to the existing system without pissing certain people off. For example connecting the 2nd Avenue line to the Manhattan Bridge and running it to Coney Island while it might take some pressure off the Lexington Avenue lines will likely have to be at the expense of losing 6th Avenue service to south Brooklyn. Routing the 6th Avenue Express to Williamburg will likely require Nassau st to be removed. Seeing how many riders will be pissed off at this changes and the unnecessary shutdowns and price neeeded for this project it’s not worth it. Connecting 2nd Avenue line to Nassau street will likely have to end at chambers street cause J/Z riders would lose access to lower Manhattan if it ran to broad street 
 

So the only place in Brooklyn 2nd Avenue could go without enraging people is Euclid Avenue via Fulton street Local. Queens well. I feel I new trunk line will need to be build and route a 2nd Ave line there. Cause routing it to queens blvd would either need for one service to be removed or for the Rockway branch to be reactived. 
 

I would also like to build a south 3rd street line in Williamsburg routing a 2nd Ave line there. And I would want to connect 2nd Ave to culver Line. And for Bronx the 3rd Avenue line also needs to come back. It could be 3 tracks. But I prefer 4 tracks for maximum capacity. 

[Amiri the subway guy]

1 hour ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

The best way to support the  is by either deinterlining Broadway and DeKalb or adding another train via the Montague Tunnel that runs alongside the  down to at least 59th Street, which a  via West End would not be able to do.

As for the , well, I came up with an  proposal a couple years back. It would have removed the  from QB and called for the  and  express via 53rd with an 18/12 split in favor of the , while running the  and  local via 63rd, split evenly at 8 tph apiece with no merging in LIC. The  and  would continue into Brooklyn via the Rutgers Tunnel. But I found that proposal would have run into a lot of problems. With the  and  at 28 tph total on the local in Manhattan, the only way it could work was if nothing ever went wrong on the 6th or 8th Ave lines. And we all know that something always goes wrong on both lines. But worse, there could only 46 rush hour tph each way split between the four services, which would have left QB with a lot of underused capacity. So I decided that idea was no good. So that was my last-ditch effort to come up with an idea to revive the  without bringing back the old . The only things I can think of now for reviving the V are either as a second SAS service or as some sort of crosstown service. And for QBL, I'm now in favor of a de-interlined, but reverse-branched QBL with the  and  running local to/from 71st Ave via 53rd and the  and  running express to/from Jamaica via 63rd. Though I do wonder if a ( V ) service via 2nd Ave can fit into that plan in some way. Maybe do that in place of the .

This is true. Even if QBL is de-interlined, there can only be so much  service operated if the  is there. My current preferred solution for QBL is to have the  and  run local to/from 71st and via 53rd, with the  and  (or another Broadway service) run express via 63rd. By splitting the  and  completely, it would make it possible to run more service on both, say at 18 tph apiece. That would then make it possible to run more  service in Brooklyn. But by running that much more service, especially at 71st, you'd have to ensure they move those trains out much quicker than they do. I estimate roughly 26-28 tph on the local and 28 on the express. That's 54-56 total tph, more than the current service and more than the  plan I favored a couple years ago (see above response to Amiri).

Are you suggesting rerouting the M up 2nd Ave all the way to East Harlem/Bronx? Or would it be turning off into the 63rd St Tunnel or a new tunnel into Queens?

 

 

After reading about the Mayor's "plans" for the BQE (and I put plans in quotes, because he's pretty much kicking the can down the road with only five months left in office), I remembered reading a post on Vanshnookenraggen's blog about how the subways in South Brooklyn might be able to be of help if the BQE is closed for long-term reconstruction in Brooklyn Heights. This was from a couple years ago - https://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index/2018/10/we-dont-need-to-replace-the-bqe-but-we-will/ . This scenario is likely the best way we would see the extra 4th Ave Local/Montague capacity used, at least temporarily. Of course, that would assume we would have a DOT and MTA willing to be partners, which we all know is just not how either agency does things.

 

TBH, if you really want to help the , it's better to have the  service continue on the local south of 36th Street, so it can serve the well-used 45th and 53rd St stations. Even better would be to go all the way to Bay Ridge since 86th Street is also a well-used station. A West End  wouldn't be able to stop at any of them. A de-interlined DeKalb Jct and CPW Line would make the  run more reliably. 

Yes, I was surprised the  actually became a thing as part of the 2010 cuts. An earlier 2009 proposed cuts plan called for eliminating the  and turning the  at Broad, while leaving the  as it was. But then the State came through with emergency funding, so the cuts were staved off for a year and revised. Either way, South Brooklyn was going to lose its Nassau St service.

Maybe have the  and ( X ) run further north, like on 50th Street. That would connect with every line too, well except the 7th Ave, Broadway and Lexington Ave express trains. But I'm not sure about funneling the ( X ) onto the QBL to 179th Street. It would require connecting a fourth tunnel into the QBL, which has enough problems with all the merging caused by funneling four lines into three tunnels. Maybe the ( X ) can run on its own line through North Queens, perhaps Northern Blvd.

Yeah at this point the it’s only worth it to bring back the V train is if it runs via the 2nd Avenue line 

[Amiri the subway guy]

Does it know how to make maps of iPads 

[Amiri the subway guy]

3 hours ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

Does it know how to make maps of iPads 

I meant to say does everyone know how to make MTA maps on iPads 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

6 hours ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

Yeah at this point the it’s only worth it to bring back the V train is if it runs via the 2nd Avenue line 

Maybe one way could be as a variation of the deinterlined QBL plan I suggested in my last post in this thread. So instead of having the  and  as QB locals and the  and  as QB expresses, it could be  local and  express. The reason I suggest the  on the express is so that it can use the 63rd St (since 53rd wasn’t designed with provisions for a 2nd Ave connection) and not cause delays merging with the  at 36th St. And the stations from Essex St to Metro Ave would have to have their platforms lengthened to accommodate 10-car  trains.

2 hours ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

I meant to say does everyone know how to make MTA maps on iPads 

I’ve never done it. I’ve done maps on a desktop computer with a mouse. I’m sure it’s possible to hook up a keyboard and a mouse to draw maps on an iPad. Although the iPad screen is smaller than many desktops and I would think a larger screen would be better for drawing a large file like an MTA map.

Edited August 5, 2021 by T to Dyre Avenue