Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[P3F]

Why should the NYC subway go into Westchester when it still as it's own problems to solve here?

That's like saying "Why should we build SAS if the existing system still has issues." If the communities support an El, then why not? Els are significantly cheaper to build than tunnels.

[LTA1992]

No it's not. Those two things don't even connect because constructing SAS deals with some problems within the current system.

 

Westchester is outside the corporate limits of NYC, therefore, more legalities come into a project like that. Secondly, if it was that easy, then LaGuardia would have done something like that when the NYW&B was purchased. The Mayor of New Rochelle asked if service on that ROW could be extended and LaGuardia replied that he has issues within the city that needs to be addressed and he cannot run Westchester. Which makes sense. That's like caring for another family member before you've fixed your own issues.

Edited March 1, 2015 by LTA1992

[MysteriousBtrain]

Since Wetschester desperately needs a subway, (and their Bee-Line buses stink), I plan for Westchester and the MTA to build a completely elevated subway system as follows:

 

(8) from Getty Square to Westchester Mall during Rush Hours

(8) from Getty Square to Ridge Hill/Stew Leonoard Drive via Broadway and Saw Mill Pkway

from 242 Street to Getty Square/Westchester Mall via Rush Hours.

from 242 St to Westchester via Highway

(10) From 161 Street - Yankee Stadium to Cronton - Harmon Ave via the old Polo Grounds ROW

1. If Westchester needs subway service, it should be it's own company.

2. Like LTA said, Westchester should solve it's own problems and if they shuttle into the Bronx, I guess that's fine.

3. I disagree on the new system being entirely elevated because it would just make a places like Yonkers and Mount Vernon want to protest on the elevated in the area.

[LTA1992]

Now now, I won't go as far to say that the residents of Westchester would protest an elevated since they've never had rapid transit before. Especially with the new, more environmentally pleasing, and noise reducing designs that exist these days, an elevated system could suffice. This would be especially true if the lines ran over the highways with feeder buses travelling to them. 

Edited March 1, 2015 by LTA1992

[MysteriousBtrain]

Now now, I won't go as far to say that the residents of Westchester would protest an elevated since they've never had rapid transit before. Especially with the new, more environmentally pleasing, and noise reducing designs that exist these days, an elevated system could suffice. This would be especially true if the lines ran over the highways with feeder buses travelling to them.

I see what you're saying, but it's just me saying don't make it 100% Elevated. In a place like Yonkers (may have exaggerated on the Mount Vernon part), I think some of it should at least be underground. Edited March 1, 2015 by MysteriousBtrain

[Javier]

Which is why Getty Square is a good terminus, since its the Central Hub of Yonkers.

 

And with that, since the existing Bee Line buses run into the Bronx,  the lines will not extend down past 161 Street which will make it easier for travelers.

 

And the new system will be called WTA.

[CenSin]

Yonkers deserves nothing.

 

 

The community was incorporated as a village in the northern part of the Town of Yonkers in 1854 and as a city in 1872. The southern part of the Township became part of the Bronx. Yonkers declined to join New York City, and plans were dropped to extend the new subway up Broadway to Getty Square.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yonkers,_New_York&oldid=648669655

[MysteriousBtrain]

Which is why Getty Square is a good terminus, since its the Central Hub of Yonkers.

 

And with that, since the existing Bee Line buses run into the Bronx, the lines will not extend down past 161 Street which will make it easier for travelers.

 

And the new system will be called WTA.

The bee line buses don't go past Fordham Road, so if the WTA enters the Bronx, I'd end it at the MTA subway terminals.

However, the Yankees line seems well, just wondering how it would run with the MTA's Jerome line.

Edited March 1, 2015 by MysteriousBtrain

[Javier]

Yonkers deserves nothing.

 

 

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yonkers,_New_York&oldid=648669655

That's your opinion.

The bee line buses don't go past Fordham Road, so if the WTA enters the Bronx, I'd end it at the MTA subway terminals.

However, the Yankees line seems well, just wondering how it would run with the MTA's Jerome line.

Expect the track maps to be uploaded soon.

[CenSin]

That's your opinion.

Remarkable observation, sir! It is indeed my opinion. My user name is attached to it.

[Javier]

Remarkable observation, sir! It is indeed my opinion. My user name is attached to it.

Now was that necessary?

[P3F]

Yonkers deserves nothing.

 

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yonkers,_New_York&oldid=648669655

That happened 121 years ago. Literally nobody who made that decision is still alive today. That's a pretty shoddy basis for why they shouldn't get a subway.

[CenSin]

That happened 121 years ago. Literally nobody who made that decision is still alive today. That's a pretty shoddy basis for why they shouldn't get a subway.

It's not a shoddy basis. The decisions made 121 years ago still have bearing on whether they can get a subway or not. One of these reasons is that Yonkers is not a part of NYC.

 

So,

1. Join NYC.

2. Pay NYC taxes.

 

The area is urban enough to get subway service, but NYC taxpayers aren't going to bear the maintenance costs for out-of-city extensions.

 

 

EDIT: On the flip side, because those living in the fringes are also paying NYC taxes, they should be getting a subway. Staten Island has a dire need for better transportation. Eastern Queens needs subway extensions as well. Per passenger, subways cost less over a long period of time. Buses cost more to operate, and the money saved from foregoing construction gets eaten up over the long term by bus operators, bus maintenance, and fuel. Subways for those underserved areas have been a long overdue promise.

 

And no subway extensions for New Jersey! They decided what they wanted to prioritize when they cancelled the rail tunnels to New York and gave up billions of dollars earmarked for the project. Some of the money originally dedicated to the rail tunnels went to roads.

Edited March 2, 2015 by CenSin

[Javier]

Oh hell no!

 

We deserve a subway just like any other state, and if the MTA is letting Bee- line buses go down into the Bronx, I'm pretty sure they won't argue (and quite surprisingly be shocked) once westchester builds a subway of their own. It will be completely elevated, as LTA said, and will use the R62's and R62'As since NTT's can't display double digits. Money isn't the issue here, it's why we're getting the subway that's most important.

[LTA1992]

First off, Yonkers is a city, not state. Second, Bee-Line enters the city to connect Westchester residents to the transit system here, nothing more. If Westchester builds their own rapid transit, it will just barely come into NYC and it would only be to connect with the subway. NYC residents wouldn't care if they built there own because we have our own issues.

[CenSin]

Oh hell no!

 

We deserve a subway just like any other state, and if the MTA is letting Bee- line buses go down into the Bronx, I'm pretty sure they won't argue (and quite surprisingly be shocked) once westchester builds a subway of their own. It will be completely elevated, as LTA said, and will use the R62's and R62'As since NTT's can't display double digits. Money isn't the issue here, it's why we're getting the subway that's most important.

The roads are pretty much open to everyone. Greyhound runs buses from New York City to pretty much everywhere else in the United States and even to Canada.

 

If Westchester is rich enough to do subway construction (elevated or not), then they can try and propose it. But if you're talking about erecting permanent structures within New York City's limits, then we're looking at layers and layers of red tape. And then there's the fact that very little has been done to study Westchester's transportation needs. Not much has been said of the need for transit expansion within Westchester. Plans are scant, and rail plans for Westchester almost always involve the Metro-North or express buses.

 

quite surprisingly be shocked) once westchester builds a subway of their own.

I'd be quite shocked given that there is effectively no push for any transit expansion in Westchester.

 

Second, Bee-Line enters the city to connect Westchester residents to the transit system here, nothing more. If Westchester builds their own rapid transit, it will just barely come into NYC and it would only be to connect with the subway.

Any nobody builds feeder subway lines. It just doesn't make sense. Edited March 2, 2015 by CenSin

[Javier]

To you it dosent, but to us it does. Having a Westchester subway system will be great, since the Buses take an extra hour to go where you want to go. Having a subway come every 5 minutes or do is fine, but having to wait for a bus every 40 minutes is just plain wrong.

[CenSin]

To you it dosent, but to us it does. Having a Westchester subway system will be great, since the Buses take an extra hour to go where you want to go. Having a subway come every 5 minutes or do is fine, but having to wait for a bus every 40 minutes is just plain wrong.

If travel time was a justification for building any subway, then every odd bus line should be replaced with a subway. How much would it cost to operate a train at 5 minute headway? If your buses lines are running at 40 minute headways, there can't be enough ridership to justify building a subway line. Before any government or company with the money to build this will do anything, they will first evaluate the costs and benefits, and it doesn't make sense to me because the benefits are very meager in comparison to the one-time and ongoing costs.

 

But such arguments, while realistic, kill the joy of fantasy subway proposals. I'll leave it to you to figure out the other reasons why feeder subway lines don't make sense. Meditate on it. It will come to you.

[Armandito]

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zh758mgJc1tw.kMt-J-aY8MeQ Here's my proposal for an SAS to the Bronx. In this case, the would not run overnight, the and will now run express in Brooklyn during the day and evening, and all trains that used to run to Lefferts Boulevard will now run to Howard Beach (the replaces the to that station days and evenings). Also, the portion along Pelham Parkway would be built as a concrete viaduct and the express tracks would be built below the local tracks between 116th Street and 14th Street. And lastly, the Transit Museum would have to be relocated to the abandoned platforms at Bowery or Canal Street on the line.

Edited March 3, 2015 by lara8710

[itmaybeokay]

 

I'd be quite shocked given that there is effectively no push for any transit expansion in Westchester.

 

 

I think there would be significant push against it from a significant nimby contingent. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zh758mgJc1tw.kMt-J-aY8MeQ Here's my proposal for an SAS to the Bronx. In this case, the would not run overnight, the and will now run express in Brooklyn during the day and evening, and all trains that used to run to Lefferts Boulevard will now run to Howard Beach (the replaces the to that station days and evenings). Also, the portion along Pelham Parkway would be built as a concrete viaduct and the express tracks would be built below the local tracks between 116th Street and 14th Street. And lastly, the Transit Museum would have to be relocated to the abandoned platforms at Bowery or Canal Street on the line.

Looks good, but IDK if the transit museum could be located near active lines.

[LTA1992]

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zh758mgJc1tw.kMt-J-aY8MeQ Here's my proposal for an SAS to the Bronx. In this case, the would not run overnight, the and will now run express in Brooklyn during the day and evening, and all trains that used to run to Lefferts Boulevard will now run to Howard Beach (the replaces the to that station days and evenings). Also, the portion along Pelham Parkway would be built as a concrete viaduct and the express tracks would be built below the local tracks between 116th Street and 14th Street. And lastly, the Transit Museum would have to be relocated to the abandoned platforms at Bowery or Canal Street on the line.

I personally think that stations should be added at 23rd, 34th, and 86th Streets because they are main crosstown routes. 96th Street to serve the Metropolitan Hospital Center and 125th Street to serve the residents of the area and provide transfers to the M60 SBS and various other 125th Street crosstown bus lines. The plan is not clear. Is the 2 Avenue Express and the X 2 Avenue Local? Because if so, I think your map should reflect that.

Edited March 3, 2015 by LTA1992

[Armandito]

I personally think that stations should be added at 23rd, 34th, and 86th Streets because they are main crosstown routes. 96th Street to serve the Metropolitan Hospital Center and 125th Street to serve the residents of the area and provide transfers to the M60 SBS and various other 125th Street crosstown bus lines. The plan is not clear. Is the 2 Avenue Express and the X 2 Avenue Local? Because if so, I think your map should reflect that.

Actually, it's the other way around. The is the local and the (X) is the express, and (X) trains make all train stops between 116th Street and Hanover Square overnight. Service to 125th Street should be provided by the train during those hours.

[CenSin]

I personally think that stations should be added at 23rd, 34th, and 86th Streets because they are main crosstown routes. 96th Street to serve the Metropolitan Hospital Center and 125th Street to serve the residents of the area and provide transfers to the M60 SBS and various other 125th Street crosstown bus lines. The plan is not clear. Is the 2 Avenue Express and the X 2 Avenue Local? Because if so, I think your map should reflect that.

I personally think it should mirror the other IND trunks: express stations concentrated near the central business district and the financial district, and local stations everywhere else. Some definites:

• 72 Street transfer and way station
• 59 Street / 55 Street / 53 Street transfer and way station
• 42 Street transfer point and major street
• 34 Street major street
• 14 Street major street
• Houston Street transfer station
• Grand Street transfer station and possible way station (if track connections to the Manhattan Bridge are made)
• Chatham Square
• Seaport
• Hanover Square

[MysteriousBtrain]

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I personally think it should mirror the other IND trunks: express stations concentrated near the central business district and the financial district, and local stations everywhere else. Some definites:

• 72 Street transfer and way station
• 59 Street / 55 Street / 53 Street transfer and way station
• 42 Street transfer point and major street
• 34 Street major street
• 14 Street major street
• Houston Street transfer station
• Grand Street transfer station and possible way station (if track connections to the Manhattan Bridge are made)
• Chatham Square
• Seaport
• Hanover Square

I had the same idea about the express stops, except I didn't plan on including 34th Street and 5_th Street as an express station . Edited March 3, 2015 by MysteriousBtrain