(M) line direction confusion.

[Lawrence St]

Ever since 2010, the line has had a confusing service pattern other then it's normal routing from Metropolitian to Forest Hills.

When I was coding my transit app, I realized that I kept running into the issue of the like data feed bugging out. For example, ever since the data feed for the line went online, it's been nothing but confusion especially for me when I'm coding, because in the event of any other type of service other then normal weekday service, the data feed for the drives me insane.

 

For example, on weekends, the fees shows Essex St as the northbound terminal and Metropolitan as as the southbound terminal. THE greatest confusion comes from when the is operating to Chambers St and if you view the Chambers St feed, "Chambers St" is viewed as the northbound terminal while Metropolitian is viewed as the southbound.

 

Wouldn't it be easier to instead revert the direction to the way it was in 2010, with Forest Hills being the southbound terminal and Metropolitian as the northbound. What do you think?

[Art Vandelay]

I don't get the confusion here. Essex and Chambers street are both physically north of Metropolitan, and north of Metropolitan by railroad direction. 

It is the J that is the confusing one. 

[Lawrence St]

Um, no.

 

Nassau is read as going Downtown between Essex St and Broad St. When the is running via Nassau, trains toward Metropolitian are viewed as "Southbound" while trains toward Chambers St are viewed as northbound, that dosent make any sense if your not from NYC and your looking at the subway map.

[Eric B]

It would be more confusing to make Forest Hills the south terminal, because that's clearly north (especially from a Manhattan trunk perspective. Queens Blvd actually runs southeast, but all the other lines that run there, it's the north portion). 

The confusion began, because the  line originally as Broadway Ferry to what's now near Cypress Hills, which is south, though technically more east, but they don;t use east/west on NYCT, and then it was extended across the bridge to Essex. It was chained n/s toward Cypress Hills. When it was extended to Chambers, where the north section turned southward, and (especially) eventually connected to the other side of the BMT system, which was clearly to the south, this made it awkward. 

They might be better off making Chambers and Broad north terminals. Personally, when it seemed like the (M)(V) combo was something they'd never do, I thought this would be an "operational" excuse they'd use against it.

[Art Vandelay]

The M is considered Northbound and is running on the northbound track for the entirety of its trip from Metropolitan to Forest Hills,  Essex, Myrtle/Broadway or Chambers. 
Outside of Myrtle/Broadway, each of those stations is North of Metropolitan. There is really no argument for it to be southbound. 

The J is the anomaly, with Jamaica Center being the south end of BMT J and Chambers street being the north end. On both BMT J and BMT R, North is towards Chambers street. Northbound J2 becomes Southbound R1 at Chambers street and Northbound R2 becomes Southbound J1 there as well.  

A Northbound J train is running on the southbound track from Chambers to Jamaica Center. (Technically, I suppose you could argue it is wrong railing on the Northbound track J4 from outside of Chambers to outside of Essex.)
 

[Lance]

To echo everyone else's point here, you'd only confuse potential users if you were to label Forest Hills as the southern terminal over Metropolitan Av on the app. Not only is Forest Hills railroad north of Metropolitan Av; it's also geographically north of the station as well. I'm not sure what kind of app you're creating, but if possible, I'd recommend labeling the  as Manhattan-bound or Metropolitan Av Broadway Junction-bound for those weekend trips to eliminate some of that confusion.

[R42N]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Um, no.

 

Nassau is read as going Downtown between Essex St and Broad St. When the is running via Nassau, trains toward Metropolitian are viewed as "Southbound" while trains toward Chambers St are viewed as northbound, that dosent make any sense if your not from NYC and your looking at the subway map.

See this is where it’s confusing. If you’re like most people and have looked at a NYC Subway map for decades, where they orient Manhattan straight up, then it looks like Middle Village is far north of Essex Street. That being said, Essex Street is actually geographically north of Middle Village, when you look at the coordinates. 

[Trainmaster5]

Long ago (35 years) I asked this same question in schoolcar. The from 168th St or Parsons-Archer to Broad was going s/b IMO. The or the   traveled the same route before that and continued through the Montague tunnel or (KK) to Manhattan joined the line at Eastern Parkway and traveled on the same trackage to Essex St while the <M> joined the conga line at Broadway-Myrtle. Obviously software coding wasn't done by 95% of the population in those days but, as per my motor instructors , those trains were traveling on the " Manhattan bound track" or the " Brooklyn or Queens bound track" if there were any incidents that had to be radioed in to Command Center. This was an answer given to my hypothetical question back then in a classroom full of A division RTO people. The motor instructors were qualified and taught both divisions so that's how we were taught. Today the question might be answered another way. Just my musings. Carry on.