Brooklyn Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Ex696]

... (included in Brooklyn's draft plan despite being a queens route)...can't speak for much on the rerouting in Jamaica besides the removal of WB service on Jamaica Avenue, the section on Archer Avenue before Sutphin Boulevard has very low usage... I don't think the WB routing should have been changed since a decent amount of people get on at Jamaica Hospital and the new route serving it, the , is lacking in a lot of places. The truncation to Broadway Junction has been proposed in the past, tried and tried again but service was always bought back there. Don't know if the residents of Bushwick are gonna let that slide. Other than that, it's pretty much the same.

[B35 via Church]

On 8/14/2023 at 7:44 AM, BrooklynBus said:

Have they really destroyed service on the B35 that badly? I remember when you never waited more than 10 minutes for a B35 before midnight. Usually a bus was there in five before they started Limiteds. And they wonder why ruders switched to dollar cabs and vans? The MTA intentionally caused that so they could run less bus service. 

I'll just let a picture speak a thousand words for me.... This is the shit that's becoming more of a norm over here.... This is as of today, as of 2:20pm.

On second thought, let me go on a mini-rant here..... Buses are arriving in three's (and sometimes fours) at Mother Gaston (one bus out of the group of 3's or 4's usually goes OOS)... Couple mins. after the fact, a LTD & a local will leave within 2-3 mins of each other.... Then after the initial two buses depart, there's about a 5-7 min. interval/interim before the next two buses leave.... It's almost guaranteed that by time those 4 buses hit Nostrand, they will arrive within seconds of each other....

Just look at the cluster of 4 EB buses b/w Utica & Kings Hwy, and the 4 consecutive WB buses b/w Mother Gaston & Church/Linden within minutes of each other.... I'm going to wait & see what happens when the last of those 4 WB buses reaches Nostrand... This trend will not get any better around 4-5pm either.....

The long & the short is, the stint between Kings Hwy & Utica has become more of a chokepoint during the day.... The amount of double parking b/w Utica & 51st is beyond ridiculous now.

Edit: of those 4 EB buses b/w Utica & Kings Hwy, only one of them is a local !

Edited August 15, 2023 by B35 via Church

[BrooklynBus]

8 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I'll just let a picture speak a thousand words for me.... This is the shit that's becoming more of a norm over here.... This is as of today, as of 2:20pm.

On second thought, let me go on a mini-rant here..... Buses are arriving in three's (and sometimes fours) at Mother Gaston (one bus out of the group of 3's or 4's usually goes OOS)... Couple mins. after the fact, a LTD & a local will leave within 2-3 mins of each other.... Then after the initial two buses depart, there's about a 5-7 min. interval/interim before the next two buses leave.... It's almost guaranteed that by time those 4 buses hit Nostrand, they will arrive within seconds of each other....

Just look at the cluster of 4 EB buses b/w Utica & Kings Hwy, and the 4 consecutive WB buses b/w Mother Gaston & Church/Linden within minutes of each other.... I'm going to wait & see what happens when the last of those 4 WB buses reaches Nostrand... This trend will not get any better around 4-5pm either.....

The long & the short is, the stint between Kings Hwy & Utica has become more of a chokepoint during the day.... The amount of double parking b/w Utica & 51st is beyond ridiculous now.

Edit: of those 4 EB buses b/w Utica & Kings Hwy, only one of them is a local !

There is obviously zero supervision. You should send this to the MTA and ask them where the supervision is and what they are doing to correct this problem. It will be interesting to see if you get a response. If not , you should then send it to your councilperson and see if they do anything about it. 

[N6 Limited]

On 8/13/2023 at 10:59 PM, BrooklynBus said:

I don’t see how the percentage of one seat B15 riders to JFK matters. It’s the absolute number that is important. If it’s say 3,000, that’s 3,000 people inconvenienced daily. It doesn’t matter if that’s 10 percent or 20 percent B15 passengers. 
 

As for the damage done to Linden Blvd buy purposely screwing up the lights as DOT has done elsewhere to slow traffic, then complain about congestion and blaming the drivers, they need to undo that if a bus is out on Linden. They even should undo it without a bus. 

Both are important, but if for example, those 3,000 people that have a one seat ride is 20% , then 12,000 already transfer and the B55 could potentially make it easier/quicker for 12,000+ people to get to JFK.

[BrooklynBus]

On 8/16/2023 at 11:54 PM, N6 Limited said:

Both are important, but if for example, those 3,000 people that have a one seat ride is 20% , then 12,000 already transfer and the B55 could potentially make it easier/quicker for 12,000+ people to get to JFK.

Again, you are assuming it’s one route or the other to JFK. They both need to go to JFK. The borough is growing and we need to invest extra resources, not just reallocate what already exists. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

Again, you are assuming it’s one route or the other to JFK. They both need to go to JFK. The borough is growing and we need to invest extra resources, not just reallocate what already exists. 

The B15 already has alternatives north of Sutter Av so it's not exactly the end of the world. I'm not saying don't send the B15 to JFK if the ridership isn't there but unlike most routes, not much isn't gonna be affected if the B15 is moved. There are alternatives even if not the best. For example If you coming from the Bed-Stuy/Crown Heights area there's the to NL for the JFK Connection and the to the into Queens for the Q10/airtrain. 

[B35 via Church]

On 8/13/2023 at 10:59 PM, BrooklynBus said:

I don’t see how the percentage of one seat B15 riders to JFK matters. It’s the absolute number that is important. If it’s say 3,000, that’s 3,000 people inconvenienced daily. It doesn’t matter if that’s 10 percent or 20 percent B15 passengers.

On 8/16/2023 at 11:54 PM, N6 Limited said:

Both are important, but if for example, those 3,000 people that have a one seat ride is 20% , then 12,000 already transfer and the B55 could potentially make it easier/quicker for 12,000+ people to get to JFK.

I get that this was an example, but N6's reply put the example into perspective.... There's no way the B15's carrying 15,000 people a day to/from JFK.

3,000 sounds closer to the total amount of daily riders taking B15's to/from JFK per day... Maybe 4-5 thousand.... Whatever the number is, some fraction of that number would represent how many ppl. solely use the B15 to get to/from JFK... While I agree with BrooklynBus that the percentage isn't all that important, to me, it's ultimately splitting hairs (given my position with this proposed B35/B55 plan).... Even if we're to assume that the proposed B55 would bring in more folks that would directly use it to get to JFK (meaning, on top of those currently xferring from the B35 to the B15), I'd still say that number wouldn't warrant running (any sort of a tinkered version of) the B35 to JFK....

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

The B15 already has alternatives north of Sutter Av so it's not exactly the end of the world. I'm not saying don't send the B15 to JFK if the ridership isn't there but unlike most routes, not much isn't gonna be affected if the B15 is moved. There are alternatives even if not the best. For example If you coming from the Bed-Stuy/Crown Heights area there's the to NL for the JFK Connection and the to the into Queens for the Q10/airtrain. 

When I saw N6's question (regarding the percentage of 1-seat riders to/from JFK on the B15), what you're essentially getting at here, was going to be my follow-up question.... I was going to ask "From Where?" But I wanted to see how the discussion was going to play out, before asking that question/bringing that up.....

[BrooklynBus]

2 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

The B15 already has alternatives north of Sutter Av so it's not exactly the end of the world. I'm not saying don't send the B15 to JFK if the ridership isn't there but unlike most routes, not much isn't gonna be affected if the B15 is moved. There are alternatives even if not the best. For example If you coming from the Bed-Stuy/Crown Heights area there's the to NL for the JFK Connection and the to the into Queens for the Q10/airtrain. 

If there are so many great alternatives to the B15 to JFK, then why was it extended to JFK in the first place? 

[dkupf]

12 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

If there are so many great alternatives to the B15 to JFK, then why was it extended to JFK in the first place? 

The service planners, at the time, projected that the extension to JFK would, at worst, pay for itself.  And, at best, make the then B10 a more productive bus route.  And it worked like a charm.  There are a significant number of Bed-Stuy residents who currently work at JFK based on the O/D survey results that were released in the BkBNR Existing Conditions Report.

But, yes, I favor the B15 AND B55. We should have our cake and eat it too.

Edited August 19, 2023 by dkupf
Clarification

[Ex696]

Any opinions on the  and  streamlining onto Throop Avenue and Marcus Garvey Boulevard? Lewis and Tompkins would lose service, and I'm not sure how much more ridership potential Throop and Marcus Garvey have compared to the other two for the streamlining to have a net positive effect on ridership.

[Nitro]

The B2 can be easily replaced by the B100 not many people from Midwood go to Kings Plaza and there is the B100 which parallels most of it's route.

[Ex696]

I wouldn't say not many...a decent amount of people still use it between Midwood and Kings Plaza, and as was mentioned earlier, the B100 received no increase in service whatsoever to be the "replacement" of the B2. Whenever two parallel transit lines exist, and one is proposed to shut down, service on the one that will stay should always run more often unless their ridership numbers have such a large difference or their frequencies are already excellent that an increase in service would not really be necessary. The B2 and B100 don't fall under any of these.

[BrooklynBus]

The B100 also makes fewer stops than the B100.

[Nitro]

On 1/17/2022 at 10:16 AM, BrooklynBus said:

Did you ever see my proposals? I proposed extending only the B35s starting at McDonald Ave to JFK and giving it a different route number. That way the route doesn't become too long.

Why would you eliminate the B7. Doesn't it see use by people who use the bus to get to school. You're just going to add more Yellow Buses

[BrooklynBus]

2 hours ago, Nitro said:

Why would you eliminate the B7. Doesn't it see use by people who use the bus to get to school. You're just going to add more Yellow Buses

I would retain the school specials, but not the route.  Without the B7 south of Church Avenue, there is still a maximum of 1/4 mile walk to a bus route, south of Flatbush, it is duplicated by the B82, that’s why I would eliminate it. It is lightly used with poor headways. 

[Nitro]

2 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I would retain the school specials, but not the route.  Without the B7 south of Church Avenue, there is still a maximum of 1/4 mile walk to a bus route, south of Flatbush, it is duplicated by the B82, that’s why I would eliminate it. It is lightly used with poor headways. 

Aren't you still cutting vital access to Flatlands and East Flatbush again you don't want service cuts though you would cut a vital route anyway.

[Nitro]

4 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I would retain the school specials, but not the route.  Without the B7 south of Church Avenue, there is still a maximum of 1/4 mile walk to a bus route, south of Flatbush, it is duplicated by the B82, that’s why I would eliminate it. It is lightly used with poor headways. 

I don't disagree with all of your bus changes. All you have to do is increase the frequencies of the 7 by using buses from ENY and Flatbush Depots. The B7 is there to alleviate loads from the 46 and the 47. I would cut the B7s route to Bed Stuy and let the 7 terminate at Eastern Parkway and extend the route to Bensonhurst then call it a day.

[Nitro]

11 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I would retain the school specials, but not the route.  Without the B7 south of Church Avenue, there is still a maximum of 1/4 mile walk to a bus route, south of Flatbush, it is duplicated by the B82, that’s why I would eliminate it. It is lightly used with poor headways. 

Despite the fact it parallels the future IBX aka the  Train we can still add an express variant of the B7 it's the least you can do since SBS has proven not to work on most buses in the city like the B46, B82, M14A/D, M23, M34A, M79, M86, Bx41, Q44, Q52, Q53, & the LaGuardia Link Q70 Select Bus Service. I do have to say SBS should be renamed asap.

SBS is only necessary in order to provide express service on congested corridors.

[BrooklynBus]

48 minutes ago, Nitro said:

I don't disagree with all of your bus changes. All you have to do is increase the frequencies of the 7 by using buses from ENY and Flatbush Depots. The B7 is there to alleviate loads from the 46 and the 47. I would cut the B7s route to Bed Stuy and let the 7 terminate at Eastern Parkway and extend the route to Bensonhurst then call it a day.

I doubt it that anyone uses the B7 because of overcrowding on the B46 or B47. I don’t see the demand for increased frequencies either. 

 

54 minutes ago, Nitro said:

Aren't you still cutting vital access to Flatlands and East Flatbush again you don't want service cuts though you would cut a vital route anyway.

I don’t see it as a vital link since the B50 was first introduced. All B7 trips can be made with other routes. It’s the only route I am cutting with all my proposals as opposed to the MTA who is proposing to eliminate many vital routes. I would rather use the buses to fill service gaps like between Utica and Nostrand Avenues where walking distances are great. 

[B35 via Church]

21 hours ago, Nitro said:

...All you have to do is increase the frequencies of the 7 by using buses from ENY and Flatbush Depots. The B7 is there to alleviate loads from the 46 and the 47.

20 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

I doubt it that anyone uses the B7 because of overcrowding on the B46 or B47. I don’t see the demand for increased frequencies either.

Lol.... Virtually nobody around here is using B7's to circumvent taking B46's or B47's.... Not only does the B7 run like shit, it's simply less useful than the B46 & the B47.... The problem with the B7 has less to do with insufficient service levels & more to do with the sheer demand for the route.

 

 

[Ex696]

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The problem with the B7 has less to do with insufficient service levels & more to do with the sheer demand for the route.

There aren't enough places along the route that people want to go for people to use it more? What about the proposed extension to Forest Avenue ? Any possibility demand along the B7 will grow because of it?

[Lex]

4 hours ago, Ex696 said:

There aren't enough places along the route that people want to go for people to use it more? What about the proposed extension to Forest Avenue ? Any possibility demand along the B7 will grow because of it?

The fact of the matter is, the borderline stroad east of Ocean Avenue is highly residential, unlike the more mixed portion west of Ocean Avenue.

[BrooklynBus]

57 minutes ago, Lex said:

The fact of the matter is, the borderline stroad east of Ocean Avenue is highly residential, unlike the more mixed portion west of Ocean Avenue.

What does your response have to do with the question being asked?

[Lex]

5 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

What does your response have to do with the question being asked?

Which one?

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

Which one?

Your comment about Ocean Avenue isn’t relevant to the B7.