Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Fire Mountain]

Just now, Fire Mountain said:

Nah. I’m not saying the route HAS to be the Q34, all Im saying is that idea could work and they use a LOCAL ROUTE along willets INSTEAD of a RUSH. That’s my point. I can see the route working AS A LOCAL more than a rush. Another rush route is not needed when you already have the 44 SBS via union, and 17 Rush via Linden. It’ll just be too much.

 

Yea I remember about the 16 part, but if you ask me, they should just keep the 16 running via utopia ONLY and get rid of that 62. I agree that route will not work whatsoever. And about the rush, that’s what I’m saying. The willets point route should just be an all day local route instead of a rush hour only route. The only reason I mentioned the 34 was cause it’s already a local in the current bus system. That’s all guys 

Fixed a mistake made in the post 

[Fire Mountain]

55 minutes ago, mikecintel said:

In fact I take the Q34 route and it will effect me.  I leave 5AM in morning to go to work in Brooklyn but if they cut it and I need to go to Jamaica to take the LIRR into Atlantic Terminal (In case if the 7 is not working) and then transfer to anther subway to Brighton I would need to find another bus that will stop at the Jamaica in front of the LIRR station because I do not feel safe walking in Jamaica 5 or 6 in the morning and it is still night time.  They need the Q44SBS or the Q20 bus to stop in front of the LIRR Jamaica station and then continue to their terminus.

Just saw this. And your reasoning is logical, but here’s another option. If they really wanna discontinue the 20 via Archer, maybe they can have THAT terminate at the LIRR station instead 

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Q43LTD said:

So there's the Q16 proposed to end at the current Q31 terminal. Stub, perhaps? Then there's the Q61 and 62 routes. 61 rush hour only, 62 7 days a week. They're acting like the Q16 is that busy

That is exactly my problem with how they're opting to break up the current Q16.... The Q16 at its busiest is west of Francis Lewis, not east of it.... Fat chance the proposed Q61 & Q62 would spur significant enough growth from along Utopia & from along Willets Pt. blvd......

3 minutes ago, Fire Mountain said:

Yea I remember about the 16 part, but if you ask me, they should just keep the 16 running via utopia ONLY and get rid of that 62. I agree that route will not work whatsoever. And about the rush, that’s what I’m saying. The willets point route should just be a local instead of a rush. The only reason I mentioned the 34 was cause it’s already a local in the current bus system. That’s all guys 

If it's any branch of the current Q16 that should be kept, it's the Willets Point branch (mainly because of its usage along Francis Lewis)..... It's enough that they got the proposed Q31 running up Utopia, way up to the Cross Island.... The current Utopia branch of the Q16 carries a lot more air throughout the day....

1 hour ago, mikecintel said:

In fact I take the Q34 route and it will effect me.  I leave 5AM in morning to go to work in Brooklyn but if they cut it and I need to go to Jamaica to take the LIRR into Atlantic Terminal (In case if the 7 is not working) and then transfer to anther subway to Brighton I would need to find another bus that will stop at the Jamaica in front of the LIRR station because I do not feel safe walking in Jamaica 5 or 6 in the morning and it is still night time.  They need the Q44SBS or the Q20 bus to stop in front of the LIRR Jamaica station and then continue to their terminus.

Yeah, I used to be a reverse peak commuter on the LIRR from East New York to Mineola... Sometimes I'd stop off at that infamous corner store at Sutphin/Archer, depending on which train I caught (usually was the 5:39am, if I just missed the 5:24am), so I'm well aware of what & how the immediate area around LIRR Jamaica is around that time of the morning....

To be clear, my last post isn't to say that the Q34 should be ignored (which it appears that's how you took it), my point is that the proposed Q61 isn't solely comprised of the portion of the current Q34 it would supersede (reading that side discussion would have someone think it is).... Quite frankly, I think the Q34 should be kept, without even having that proposed Q61 come to fruition - and not just because of said portion of the Q34 it would take the place of....

[mikecintel]

8 hours ago, Fire Mountain said:

Just saw this. And your reasoning is logical, but here’s another option. If they really wanna discontinue the 20 via Archer, maybe they can have THAT terminate at the LIRR station instead 

Yes True I agree  Anyway, I id call the MTA to make my suggestion to have the Q44/20 stop in front the LIRR station and then continue to there terminus.  I said also if the Q25 can do that too that be wonderful but if they do that to the Q25 then the Q44/20 would do.  Let's see if they will my suggestion.  I guess they won't anyway.

Edited September 14, 2023 by mikecintel

[mikecintel]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, I used to be a reverse peak commuter on the LIRR from East New York to Mineola... Sometimes I'd stop off at that infamous corner store at Sutphin/Archer, depending on which train I caught (usually was the 5:39am, if I just missed the 5:24am), so I'm well aware of what & how the immediate area around LIRR Jamaica is around that time of the morning....

To be clear, my last post isn't to say that the Q34 should be ignored (which it appears that's how you took it), my point is that the proposed Q61 isn't solely comprised of the portion of the current Q34 it would supersede (reading that side discussion would have someone think it is).... Quite frankly, I think the Q34 should be kept, without even having that proposed Q61 come to fruition - and not just because of said portion of the Q34 it would take the place of....

I see wow you worked at Long Island that is a long ride and expensive too the train ride.  There is a corner store at Sutphin/Archer?  Whenever if I have to go Jamaica to go to Atlantic Terminal sometimes I  go to the store inside the Jamaica station the NY Deli to get my breakfast or to Tim Horton the second level but man they are expensive but then it is next to the LIRR station so I understand.    Yes I agree they should should keep the Q34 and not change the route number.

Edited September 14, 2023 by mikecintel

[Q43LTD]

4 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

That is exactly my problem with how they're opting to break up the current Q16.... The Q16 at its busiest is west of Francis Lewis, not east of it.... Fat chance the proposed Q61 & Q62 would spur significant enough growth from along Utopia & from along Willets Pt. blvd......

I guess the Q1 and 16 are like second cousins lol. Both aren't in the top 10 in ridership in the borough but have multiple branches 

[Fire Mountain]

So, this isn’t regards to the redesign, but I just gotta know. So earlier today I caught the Q25 on a LaGuardia Depot Bus (Orion VII Next Gen from ‘09 or so) which has me wonder, for the past 11 years, the local buses from the College Point Depot only ran the C40LF buses. Anyone here know why? 🤔 I think it’s time we could use some of those new blue buses over here 💯

[Q43LTD]

College Point is a CNG garage. LaGuardia and College Point have some kind agreement when one has a shortage lol. I don't think those tanks expired yet

[N6 Limited]

On 9/9/2023 at 3:49 AM, Cait Sith said:

Also, with the connectivity argument, sure, the Q10 would connect with the Q20, Q44, Q25 and Q65, but the issue is that the number of people that actually transfer between those routes and the current day Q64 aren't exactly high.

And Q23. Current riders may not make those transfers but Future riders may due to the extended routing and additional connections.

———

No  this weekend between Crescent St and Jamaica Center, a Q57 to/from the would certainly be helpful in this case.

[Cait Sith]

3 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

And Q23. Current riders may not make those transfers but Future riders may due to the extended routing and additional connections.

———

No  this weekend between Crescent St and Jamaica Center, a Q57 to/from the would certainly be helpful in this case.

That'll be a rather low number at best.

The Q57 logic would work if people already didn't ignore the existence of the Q112....so it wouldn't really be any more helpful than it is now. Whenever the is out.....people get the Q24 and Q56 since its within close proximity to the and their desired locations.

[N6 Limited]

16 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

The Q57 logic would work if people already didn't ignore the existence of the Q112....so it wouldn't really be any more helpful than it is now. Whenever the is out.....people get the Q24 and Q56 since its within close proximity to the and their desired locations.

Q112 Sucks. Starts at Hillside and Parsons to Jamaica Center then goes in the opposite direction to Guy R Brewer Blvd, etc.

It does not connect to LIRR, does not go near Jamaica Bus Terminal.

[Cait Sith]

1 minute ago, N6 Limited said:

Q112 Sucks. Starts at Hillside and Parsons to Jamaica Center then goes in the opposite direction to Guy R Brewer Blvd, etc.

It does not connect to LIRR, does not go near Jamaica Bus Terminal.

It still wouldn't be that helpful compared to the Q24 and Q56, and to some extent, the Q54 and the proposed Q55.

[B35 via Church]

On 9/14/2023 at 7:42 AM, mikecintel said:

I see wow you worked at Long Island that is a long ride and expensive too the train ride.  There is a corner store at Sutphin/Archer?  Whenever if I have to go Jamaica to go to Atlantic Terminal sometimes I  go to the store inside the Jamaica station the NY Deli to get my breakfast or to Tim Horton the second level but man they are expensive but then it is next to the LIRR station so I understand.    Yes I agree they should should keep the Q34 and not change the route number.

I still do; just not in Mineola anymore.... Lol, yeah, there's always been that corner store on that corner... Practically everyone & their mammas stop off in there before they catch whatever bus or train to get to where they gotta get to in the morning.....

On 9/16/2023 at 8:57 PM, N6 Limited said:

No  this weekend between Crescent St and Jamaica Center, a Q57 to/from the would certainly be helpful in this case.

The whole Lefferts branch was shot this past weekend also;  's from Manhattan weren't running past Euclid.....

Was on the Q37 yesterday... Interesting to note that the shuttle bus was right behind us as we were entering the casino.....

[mikecintel]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I still do; just not in Mineola anymore.... Lol, yeah, there's always been that corner store on that corner... Practically everyone & their mammas stop off in there before they catch whatever bus or train to get to where they gotta get to in the morning.....

I see

[N6 Limited]

12 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The whole Lefferts branch was shot this past weekend also;  's from Manhattan weren't running past Euclid.....

No LIRR cross honoring either.

23 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

It still wouldn't be that helpful compared to the Q24 and Q56, and to some extent, the Q54 and the proposed Q55.

I’m thinking from the prospective of those that would usually transfer at Broadway Junction to continue to Jamaica, not those along  Jamaica Ave or Fulton St.   They have the buses you’ve mentioned, and the Subway Shuttle.

[Lex]

33 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

No LIRR cross honoring either.

I’m thinking from the prospective of those that would usually transfer at Broadway Junction to continue to Jamaica, not those along  Jamaica Ave or Fulton St.   They have the buses you’ve mentioned, and the Subway Shuttle.

How would that have worked?

Congratulations, you made no headway in your crusade.

[Cait Sith]

2 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

No LIRR cross honoring either.

I’m thinking from the prospective of those that would usually transfer at Broadway Junction to continue to Jamaica, not those along  Jamaica Ave or Fulton St.   They have the buses you’ve mentioned, and the Subway Shuttle.

 

Shuttle buses in general would be far more convenient and more direct than the Q24, Q56 and Q57 put together, especially with the sheer amount of shuttle buses on the road vs the handful of buses on those routes.

LIRR hardly ever cross honors for the unless it's a long term GO, and even so, not many people take advantage of cross honoring in general.

All you are literally trying to do is to justify the Q57 as an alternative for shuttle buses when.

A. The headway wont even meet with the demand.

B. Won't be enough buses to handle the crowds.

C. Won't work in general, especially since people already don't take the Q112 during a shutdown, but more for an shutdown. The Q57 to Sutphin won't help the case much either to be honest.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Cait Sith

[Fire Mountain]

To @N6 Limited Honestly, the Q112 was always more for riders in Ozone Park than for Jamaica to begin with, so I would have to agree with @Cait Sith in terms of the 57 replacing the J during trackwork shut down. Don’t see it working, and also the LIRR dosent really cross honor a lot of trains except for the 7 and occasionally the E and F (I think) but never the J. So it’s kind of pointless how you would throw that in there tbh. If anything the 24, 56, and even the proposed Q55 (which shouldn’t even be extended to Jamaica) would work better as an alternative to the J train than the Q57 would. The 57 overall is just screaming low ridership since the 112 I don’t think ever does good ridership, even in ozone park, and I don’t even know how the 110 does since I only rode that bus 2 times. But the 57 as it’s proposed, yeah, no. Don’t see it working as 1. A substitute for the subway 2. A bus route overall

 

Matter fact, come to think of it, why does the MTA want to extend the Q55 down Jamaica Avenue where the J train and Q56 already go? I get they’re tryna realign the 54 via hillside but what’s the point of the 55 going down past one of the biggest terminals in Queens? 🤔

[Cait Sith]

41 minutes ago, Fire Mountain said:

To @N6 Limited Honestly, the Q112 was always more for riders in Ozone Park than for Jamaica to begin with, so I would have to agree with @Cait Sith in terms of the 57 replacing the J during trackwork shut down. Don’t see it working, and also the LIRR dosent really cross honor a lot of trains except for the 7 and occasionally the E and F (I think) but never the J. So it’s kind of pointless how you would throw that in there tbh. If anything the 24, 56, and even the proposed Q55 (which shouldn’t even be extended to Jamaica) would work better as an alternative to the J train than the Q57 would. The 57 overall is just screaming low ridership since the 112 I don’t think ever does good ridership, even in ozone park, and I don’t even know how the 110 does since I only rode that bus 2 times. But the 57 as it’s proposed, yeah, no. Don’t see it working as 1. A substitute for the subway 2. A bus route overall

 

Matter fact, come to think of it, why does the MTA want to extend the Q55 down Jamaica Avenue where the J train and Q56 already go? I get they’re tryna realign the 54 via hillside but what’s the point of the 55 going down past one of the biggest terminals in Queens? 🤔

Wouldn't say that at all, 60,000-80,000 riders a month isn't something that should be looked down upon, and those 112s(speaking from personal experience as I live near the line and use it) are always packed during the day, and gets decent usage at night.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Cait Sith

[Fire Mountain]

23 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Wouldn't say that at all, 60,000-80,000 riders a month isn't something that should be looked down upon, and those 112s(speaking from personal experience as I live near the line and use it) are always packed during the day, and gets decent usage at night.

Wait what? 🤨 That’s odd…🤔 whenever I see the 112 it be empty and not by the terminals, but ok. However regarding the 57, yea not gonna work

[N6 Limited]

All of your comments regarding the Q57 remind me of the “ and  shouldn’t be merged” arguments because “  riders want Nassau st” and “anyone that wants 6th Ave can transfer at  Essex St”.  
 

My perspective is from my experiences riding the Fulton St line and preferring to stay on the  Express instead of transferring at Broadway Junction, where by the time you get to the   Mezzanine the   is already at Euclid or Grant Ave. Where after arriving at Jamaica Center I still had to get to Jamaica bus terminal and there wasn’t enough time to get there to catch the next bus, etc.  This is when I used a monthly unlimited to get around. Now I just use City Ticket. However there are others that have to deal with the disjointed transit network.

Edited September 20, 2023 by N6 Limited

[B35 via Church]

On 9/18/2023 at 5:22 PM, N6 Limited said:

No LIRR cross honoring either.

Yeah, just shuttle buses running all over the place, due to all these G.O's....

4 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

My perspective is from my experiences riding the Fulton St line and preferring to stay on the  Express instead of transferring at Broadway Junction, where by the time you get to the   Mezzanine the  is already at Euclid or Grant Ave. Where after arriving at Jamaica Center I still had to get to Jamaica bus terminal and there wasn’t enough time to get there to catch the next bus, etc.  This is when I used a monthly unlimited to get around. Now I just use City Ticket. However there are others that have to deal with the disjointed transit network.

The proposed Q57 is more direct than the current Q112 between the Lefferts branch & Jamaica.... However, the to the proposed Q57 or the current Q112 to get to Jamaica isn't more direct than xferring at Broadway Junction for the to Jamaica - regardless of how cumbersome the xfer from the lower level to the upper level is at that station.... The problem I'm having with your arguments has less to do their merits & more to do with how you're framing them..... Yes, options are great - just know that your preference & your perspective represents a minority.... You are, and have been, trying to paint the taking of the Lefferts branch to the proposed Q57 as if it would be more beneficial to the masses that are xferring at B'way Junction for the ..... That's the point of contention in this side discussion here....

[Cait Sith]

On 9/20/2023 at 12:23 AM, N6 Limited said:

All of your comments regarding the Q57 remind me of the “ and  shouldn’t be merged” arguments because “  riders want Nassau st” and “anyone that wants 6th Ave can transfer at  Essex St”.  
 

My perspective is from my experiences riding the Fulton St line and preferring to stay on the  Express instead of transferring at Broadway Junction, where by the time you get to the   Mezzanine the   is already at Euclid or Grant Ave. Where after arriving at Jamaica Center I still had to get to Jamaica bus terminal and there wasn’t enough time to get there to catch the next bus, etc.  This is when I used a monthly unlimited to get around. Now I just use City Ticket. However there are others that have to deal with the disjointed transit network.

Not for nothing, but that is one of the worst comparisons you can make in regards to this. What we're talking about, and the and thing are two, very completely different scenarios.

The issue is that you're using your personal preference to paint a picture of what you think the majority would and/or should do, whereas with my viewpoints comes from personal experience dealing with the Q112 on an almost weekly basis. And, as of your latest response, you've basically come out and framed your idea as a you thing, and not what would actually benefit the masses. It's great if it helped you get around, but the mass majority would rather choose convenience over something like that.

And, lets be realistic, if people don't even take or even look at the Q112 as a viable alternative, what makes you think they'll suddenly swarm over to the not-so-different Q57?

That's cool that all of what you did worked out for you. Your experiences & preferences vs the average rider's experiences and preferences are very different in that regard, most of whom won't even follow your approach. Between you vs the average rider, you are in the minority of your own in this discussion.....and then somehow, you glossed over the fact that most shuttle riders are looking for the stops along the stations they are looking for. Not everyone is looking to go to Jamaica.

If you had mentioned, lets say the Q8, I'd wholeheartedly agree with you, as I have seen people use the Q8 as an alternative to the when the line was out(especially during the most recent outage, those Q8s were PACKED!)....but the Q57 is a really tough sell, especially as someone who deals with the current day Q112 on a weekly basis.

Here's how I look at it.

Say if you're coming from Jamaica during a Saturday afternoon, the is out and there's shuttle buses. Who would actually want to deal with afternoon Liberty Avenue traffic on the Q57(which would take around 15-20 minutes to get from Jamaica to Lefferts Blvd because of the traffic) + a potential extra 20 minute wait for an vs just hopping on the shuttle bus from where it starts from? Us transit fans can put up with different alternate routes and such regardless of time, but the average rider would not want to waste potentially 40 minutes of their day doing all of that, especially since it'll probably take about 20 minutes just to go less than 2 miles on the Q57 with traffic. On top of that, the proposed weekend headways is 20-30 minutes or better. That doesn't really ring a lot of confidence that it'll actually be better to me, and it also knocks your argument down a peg or two.

[B35 via Church]

...and how I'm looking at this side discussion at hand is that, simply put, SE-ern Queens patrons/commuters in general are not trying to get to the .... I see it as straight up  wasteful to have either (and especially both) the proposed Q51 & proposed Q57 going about accomplishing that from their eastern end terminals....

Speaking as a Brooklynite, the has long had a tendency to slog along in Brooklyn; particularly from Hoyt-Schermerhorn to Broadway Junction itself... I actually find the to move at a better pace in Brooklyn than the does.... In realizing that, I couldn't fathom a SE Queens resident abandoning a bus to the to the , to ride out on that proposed Q57 to Lefferts, to put up with more of the ....

 

I said it once on here & I'll say it again... It's going to be a hard sell on the MTA's part to try to sell the as an option for SE Queens patrons.

Edited September 21, 2023 by B35 via Church

[Fire Mountain]

6 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

...and how I'm looking at this side discussion at hand is that, simply put, SE-ern Queens patrons/commuters in general are not trying to get to the .... I see it as straight up  wasteful to have either (and especially both) the proposed Q51 & proposed Q57 going about accomplishing that from their eastern end terminals....

Speaking as a Brooklynite, the has long had a tendency to slog along in Brooklyn; particularly from Hoyt-Schermerhorn to Broadway Junction itself... I actually find the to move at a better pace in Brooklyn than the does.... In realizing that, I couldn't fathom a SE Queens resident abandoning a bus to the to the , to ride out on that proposed Q57 to Lefferts, to put up with more of the ....

 

I said it once on here & I'll say it again... It's going to be a hard sell on the MTA's part to try to sell the as an option for SE Queens patrons.

Since you bought up the Q51, ima just state my opinion on that route, I don’t know how routing it via the old Q9A (Q89) route would work either cause I don’t think a lot of people want a bus that travels from Cambria to Ozone and beyond anyways, and isn’t Green Acres way closer than Gateway Mall to most riders along Linden to begin with? 🤔 I think the 51 was another route they did not think very through regarding your points about the A, and mine about the malls….

What’s y’all opinion on this route?