NYC Transit chief Sarah Feinberg says MTA has no organizational chart, vows to cut fat out of agency

[Deucey]

On 7/17/2020 at 10:47 PM, B35 via Church said:

I personally don't care to make this a republican vs. democrat thing, but Cuomo, as a person, I see as more of an egoist than an egotist.... My issue with Cuomo, as it involves anything MTA related, is that it very much appears he wants total control of the thing.... Not necessarily on some muhahahahaha shit, but more of a *I know what's best for this state & I'm going to propose & have xyz proposal carried out, to where I'll end up ultimately benefiting for even proposing it (as in, future successive gubernatorial terms)*...

The mindset that newer is always better most certainly exists among folks & I do not at all get the sense that Cuomo suggests what he does, because he honestly believes it's best for the riders.....

But don't forget it was just two-three years ago folks here, at Gothamist/DNAinfo, Ben Kabak et al were demanding Cuomo do what he's just now been doing - after denying he controlled  since he got into the governorship. 

@R10 2952, see above for the clarification you requested here:

On 7/17/2020 at 7:31 PM, R10 2952 said:

On 7/17/2020 at 4:57 PM, Deucey said:

I'll gladly listen to how you rationalize demanding things, getting the responses in line with you wanted, and then demonizing and denigrating the responses, as holding Cuomo accountable. 

I'm not sure I follow. Explain?

 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 7/17/2020 at 10:44 AM, CenSin said:

That’s unfortunate. Another 2 years means he buys some time to wait out the recession and resume his to the train to the plane.

And it wouldn’t even be that. Because a true  train to the plane would at least be a branch off the subway and not be facing the wrong way to Manhattan where it makes the connection. Years ago (like in 2014), I suggested doing this as an alternative to the  extension if the Astoria NIMBYs were really still going to be that much of a problem two decades after fighting it off. I even proposed calling it the (11) train, because the  was still using R62As in 2014, and 11 was the only other purple bullet on the R62A rolls. Ultimately, I realized that would take away trains from Main St-Flushing, the single busiest subway-to-bus transfer point in the system. Then again due to Main St’s track layout, not every  train can terminate at Main St, so my thinking at the time was to send those  locals to the airport instead of having them put in or drop out at Willets Point or 111th St. 

15 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

The cookie-cutter experience is pretty much what my subway peers were talking about.  Buses might be somewhat different than subway cars but a NTT, IMO, is "see one see them all ". That's what the (mta) is striving for. When you have one or two main suppliers it gets boring really fast. In the metro area it seemed to me that the design process was generational with subway and rail cars. Perhaps if more manufacturers entered the bidding process things would change. Just my thoughts.  Carry on. 

But I always thought that the manufacturers built the train according to the TA’s/MTA’s own design with little tolerance for deviation from their design. I always thought it was why the A Division cars from R17 to R36 all looked nearly the same and (other than the R17 circle storm door window, the R21/22 square window and the World’s Fair cars’ side picture windows). Same with the B Division’s R16, R27 and R30 cars (again, the R16’s circle front windows being the most noticeable difference). I feel like it wouldn’t change much if other manufacturers entered the bidding process, unless the MTA gave them more freedom to present their ideas over the train’s overall design, as long as it fits within the subway car dimensions for length, width and height.

Personally, I feel it’s buses that have too much of a cookie-cutter thing going. Probably even more so than the NTT fleets, because you can even see the same bus models in other cities. 

21 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

That's one way to look at it, but to be honest, I think it's depressing that enthusiasts don't have much left to be ecstatic about.... Waning variety when it comes to fleet (or at the very least, their outward appearance), a certain reluctance/hesitation/apprehension of taking a pic/video nowadays, the customer (rider/fanner) experience just not being the same as it used to be, etc. etc.... When there's (as) much of an interest as to what advertisements are plastered on the buses, that can't be a good sign for the hobby....

I mean let's face it, the younger folks aren't growing up on Lionel train sets & having those child-like 's when daddy/granddaddy/uncle finally assembled the thing.... JMO, but I don't see there being that much of a build up to being that staunch (or "hardcore") enthusiast for the younger guys (bus or train side, don't matter), when everything's becoming more cookie-cutter out here.....

At least I’m glad the R211s will look much different up front from the R143s, R160s and R179s. And better too, with the large front bullet and a destination screen. I’m actually looking forward to riding them. 

And I’d love to take up model railroading. I just don’t have the space in my apartment and I have a very active toddler. Those two factors don’t really work in favor of model train sets.

[CenSin]

6 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

On 7/17/2020 at 10:44 AM, CenSin said:

That’s unfortunate. Another 2 years means he buys some time to wait out the recession and resume his to the train to the plane.

And it wouldn’t even be that. Because a true  train to the plane would at least be a branch off the subway and not be facing the wrong way to Manhattan where it makes the connection. Years ago (like in 2014), I suggested doing this as an alternative to the  extension if the Astoria NIMBYs were really still going to be that much of a problem two decades after fighting it off. I even proposed calling it the (11) train, because the  was still using R62As in 2014, and 11 was the only other purple bullet on the R62A rolls. Ultimately, I realized that would take away trains from Main St-Flushing, the single busiest subway-to-bus transfer point in the system. Then again due to Main St’s track layout, not every  train can terminate at Main St, so my thinking at the time was to send those  locals to the airport instead of having them put in or drop out at Willets Point or 111th St.

Since it seems like the AirTrain from Willets Point is also getting NIMBY push-back, the NIMBYs being a problem would be a moot point. For obvious reasons, any train to the plane plan that requires taking an A Division train should be killed with fire. The trains are narrow and unsuited for the transport of airline passengers.

The LGA Access Improvement Project’s documents do provide some other subway alternatives, the most interesting being:

Quote

C.2.8.5 Alternative 8E: From 36 Street Subway Station: Tunnel Beneath Steinway Street and Grand Central Parkway
This alternative would construct a branch of the and/or Lines from the 36 Street subway station, continuing within and below Steinway Street approximately 1 mile. The alignment would then pass 25 Avenue before curving east, behind TriBoro Beverage Distribution Center, to meet Astoria Boulevard. The alignment would continue beneath Astoria Boulevard crossing St. Michael’s Cemetery before turning north. After the turn, the alignment would continue beneath the GCP to avoid having an elevated subway affect the approach surface of Runway 04. This alternative would continue in a tunnel and end at a subterranean station at LGA. This would create a branch in service for the and Lines wherein some trains would continue to LGA and other trains would remain on the current route for these lines.

This discussion should probably be continued in the subway proposals thread, however:

 

[B35 via Church]

6 hours ago, Deucey said:

But don't forget it was just two-three years ago folks here, at Gothamist/DNAinfo, Ben Kabak et al were demanding Cuomo do what he's just now been doing - after denying he controlled  since he got into the governorship. 

@R10 2952, see above for the clarification you requested here:

I'm not saying/implicating I don't believe you, but could you shoot me a quick example of this?

6 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Personally, I feel it’s buses that have too much of a cookie-cutter thing going. Probably even more so than the NTT fleets, because you can even see the same bus models in other cities. 

I can't make a definitive distinction b/w the vanilla-ness of the bus vs. the subway either way nowadays.... To me, it's 50/50.

The difference in appearance at least between an M7 & and M8/M9 though,

6 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

At least I’m glad the R211s will look much different up front from the R143s, R160s and R179s. And better too, with the large front bullet and a destination screen. I’m actually looking forward to riding them. 

And I’d love to take up model railroading. I just don’t have the space in my apartment and I have a very active toddler. Those two factors don’t really work in favor of model train sets.

Looking back at the ole family album, I got my first trainset at back in Christmas of '84.... Funny how I can't remember what I did 3 days ago, but I actually remember taking that picture at 3.... I was mad asf a couple yrs. later when one of them goddamn brats broke one of my tracks (my grandmother used to run a little babysitting service).....

I actually feel sorry for these kids out here... Take this FWIW, but I honestly don't remember the last commercial I've seen for an actual toy.... Was just telling my siblings that the name "Tyco" was more synonymous with toys when I was growing up....

16 minutes ago, CenSin said:

Since it seems like the AirTrain from Willets Point is also getting NIMBY push-back.....

Good.

[Trainmaster5]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

I'm not saying/implicating I don't believe you, but could you shoot me a quick example of this?

I can't make a definitive distinction b/w the vanilla-ness of the bus vs. the subway either way nowadays.... To me, it's 50/50.

The difference in appearance at least between an M7 & and M8/M9 though,

Looking back at the ole family album, I got my first trainset at back in Christmas of '84.... Funny how I can't remember what I did 3 days ago, but I actually remember taking that picture at 3.... I was mad asf a couple yrs. later when one of them goddamn brats broke one of my tracks (my grandmother used to run a little babysitting service).....

I actually feel sorry for these kids out here... Take this FWIW, but I honestly don't remember the last commercial I've seen for an actual toy.... Was just telling my siblings that the name "Tyco" was more synonymous with toys when I was growing up....

Good.

You bring back good memories. First Lionel at 6 and I kept adding to it until I was 16 or 17 years old. My cousin was an American Flyer guy but my best friends and my other cousins were in the Lionel family too. Carry on 😀

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Trainmaster5 said:

You bring back good memories. First Lionel at 6 and I kept adding to it until I was 16 or 17 years old. My cousin was an American Flyer guy but my best friends and my other cousins were in the Lionel family too. Carry on 😀

Yessir.

Well, I don't plan on having any kids, but if either (or both) of my siblings ever end up having a boy, I will be making a nice little visit to Trainworld (and I'm the quote-unquote bus guy saying this)....

[Trainmaster5]

11 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said: 

But I always thought that the manufacturers built the train according to the TA’s/MTA’s own design with little tolerance for deviation from their design. I always thought it was why the A Division cars from R17 to R36 all looked nearly the same and (other than the R17 circle storm door window, the R21/22 square window and the World’s Fair cars’ side picture windows). Same with the B Division’s R16, R27 and R30 cars (again, the R16’s circle front windows being the most noticeable difference). I feel like it wouldn’t change much if other manufacturers entered the bidding process, unless the MTA gave them more freedom to present their ideas over the train’s overall design, as long as it fits within the subway car dimensions for length, width and height.

Personally, I feel it’s buses that have too much of a cookie-cutter thing going. Probably even more so than the NTT fleets, because you can even see the same bus models in other cities. 

At least I’m glad the R211s will look much different up front from the R143s, R160s and R179s. And better too, with the large front bullet and a destination screen. I’m actually looking forward to riding them. 

And I’d love to take up model railroading. I just don’t have the space in my apartment and I have a very active toddler. Those two factors don’t really work in favor of model train sets.

The BOT, NYCTA design specs were pretty much cookie cutter deals, IMO, because of the peculiarities of the existing systems in the IRT and BMT. Tight turns, gap fillers, short platforms in the BMT Eastern division. I remember BMT Standards, Triplexes, Multi’s and Myrtle, Third Avenue, and Fulton-Pitkin Els to Lefferts  Avenue, not Boulevard. After the elimination and consolidation all that’s left was cookie cutter to me. I remember a State of the Art concept Train that got publicity in the 70’s but never was produced for the NYCTA. Look at an R44-46 and then look at an LIRR M1 railcar. Meanwhile the PATH system got new equipment that wasn’t cookie cutter material and the PANY&NJ actually financed cars (62A?) for Transit. I remember a PATH engineer who would ride with me down to Flatbush every day. We would talk about our jobs and one day he showed me that his equipment and keys were the same as mine. I always wondered why NYCTA and PATH didn’t put in a joint order for cars for PATH and the IRT. Even if the specs weren’t exactly the same thing the basic equipment was similar to me. Just my observation. Carry on.

[bobtehpanda]

On 7/18/2020 at 4:49 PM, Trainmaster5 said:

The cookie-cutter experience is pretty much what my subway peers were talking about.  Buses might be somewhat different than subway cars but a NTT, IMO, is "see one see them all ". That's what the (mta) is striving for. When you have one or two main suppliers it gets boring really fast. In the metro area it seemed to me that the design process was generational with subway and rail cars. Perhaps if more manufacturers entered the bidding process things would change. Just my thoughts.  Carry on. 

I actually don't think this would change very much, mostly because

• the MTA procures based off its own designs, at least for the NTTs. The trend in other parts of the world (Europe, Asia, South America, etc.) is that all the major manufacturers offer one metro platform each (Siemens Inspiro, Bombardier Movia, Alstom Metropolis, etc.) and subways around the world generally modify those platforms slightly. NTTs are not a derivation of any of these.
• generally speaking, equipment as standard as possible saves money, because it allows you to spend less on training, maintenance, etc. The trend across the world in all industries has been towards greater standardization to save money; different car models have long been built on shared platforms, and the entire MO of some airlines like Southwest is that they operate hundreds of the same type of aircraft, and only that aircraft. Trains are no different.

15 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I always wondered why NYCTA and PATH didn’t put in a joint order for cars for PATH and the IRT. Even if the specs weren’t exactly the same thing the basic equipment was similar to me.

For what it's worth, PA-5s are R142A derivatives. It may have been just a matter of the timelines not matching up between orders.

[Deucey]

4 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I'm not saying/implicating I don't believe you, but could you shoot me a quick example of this?

From SA Sagas

June 21, 2017: http://secondavenuesagas.com/2017/06/21/surprise-move-cuomo-makes-late-mta-power-grab/

May 19, 2017: http://bkabak.wpengine.com/2017/05/19/mta-andrew-cuomos-problem-whether-wants-not/

June 30, 2015: http://bkabak.wpengine.com/2015/07/30/1968-2015-requiem-for-the-mta/

From Politico

August 31, 2018: https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2018/08/31/cuomo-continues-his-ping-pong-approach-to-subway-ownership-588765

May 22, 2017: https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2017/05/22/cuomo-insists-hes-not-shirking-mta-responsibility-112234

May 18, 2017: http://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2017/05/18/governor-andrew-cuomo-no-longer-wants-to-be-associated-with-the-mta-112163

Curbed posted on it

May 19, 2017: https://ny.curbed.com/platform/amp/2017/5/19/15667402/nyc-subway-mta-andrew-cuomo-bill-de-blasio

Gothamist

June 21, 2017: https://gothamist.com/news/cuomo-who-controls-the-mta-asks-to-control-it-after-denying-he-controls-it

The Post

June 20, 2017: https://nypost.com/2017/06/20/this-is-how-the-mta-made-your-commute-hell-this-morning/

HTH.

[Deucey]

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Looking back at the ole family album, I got my first trainset at back in Christmas of '84....

I had a HO scale set - figure 8, that expanded to have 12 switches and was often routed as a cloverleaf inside a cloverleaf - similar to this: https://pin.it/12io9bk

Took up most of the 144 SQ ft eat-in kitchen we had at the time (it had linoleum floors, and the rest of the house was carpet, so...).

What was that train set with the wood trackways and cars coupled by magnets? I had one of those as well.

[B35 via Church]

46 minutes ago, Deucey said:

I had a HO scale set - figure 8, that expanded to have 12 switches and was often routed as a cloverleaf inside a cloverleaf - similar to this: https://pin.it/12io9bk

Took up most of the 144 SQ ft eat-in kitchen we had at the time (it had linoleum floors, and the rest of the house was carpet, so...).

What was that train set with the wood trackways and cars coupled by magnets? I had one of those as well.

Sounds like your setup was decked out..... Nice.

I would have liked to have had one of those table top joints, but I started venturing into other hobbies as I grew older (comic book collecting, then building those LEGO's, then sports card collecting & hot wheels collecting [concurrently], then TCG collecting).... Joyriding buses & studying maps (basically anything transit related) came sometime after I stopped comic book collecting in the mid; just wasn't into it like my cousin was....

Anyway, fIrst set I had was an O scale - typical oval layout.... Second set was a half-O scale - double oval layout.... Being perfectly honest, I didn't have too many traincars for either set, so looking back at it, that was likely the reason I got bored with it.... Then after I got my first LEGO set one Christmas, forget it.... Over the years, I've amassed a million pieces, easy - still got all those things color coordinated in ziploc bags in one of my storage bins, along with those GI Joe's I'm pretty sure have dry-rotted by now.....