Erroneous Bus Stop Removals in The Bronx

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It was brought to my attention this morning that at least two bus stops in The Bronx have been totally removed that should not have been. A number of local bus stops were slated to be removed because of the Bronx Local Bus Redesign, but that has nothing to do with Bronx Express bus service.

Given that there are hundreds of Bronx local bus stops slated to be removed by the DOT at the request of the , I want to make sure that no other commuters wake up and walk over to their stop, only to find it gone and cars parked where the stop should remain, which is what happened to some commuters earlier today. If you encounter this issue, please provide the bus stop and route and also confirm if this is the case in both directions. So far the following the stops have been noted:

-BxM8: City Island Av & Cross Av (removed in both directions because of the Bx29 bus stop removal)

Additionally, multiple commuters have complained about the new express buses and the Stop Requested issues. The Stop Requested bell was removed on the new express buses and the screens are supposed to display that information, but are either cycling off or cycling through ads and not showing the Stop Requested alert, leading to passengers missing their stop. The  has been alerted and is currently working to fix this tech issue across all of the new express buses. To my knowledge, is not an issue for any of the older express buses.

[7-express]

Your last point does hit upon an annoyance I have with the new buses.  It's hard to see if a stop has been requested when there's a large gap between stops.  At least in the old bus, it was just the old school lighted sign in the front.  They really should update it so the top banner of the screen stays on "STOP REQUESTED" any time activated while the ads roll beneath it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, 7-express said:

Your last point does hit upon an annoyance I have with the new buses.  It's hard to see if a stop has been requested when there's a large gap between stops.  At least in the old bus, it was just the old school lighted sign in the front.  They really should update it so the top banner of the screen stays on "STOP REQUESTED" any time activated while the ads roll beneath it.

Yes, that's exactly what they are working on and what I requested. They have all of the information. Hopefully it'll be addressed soon. That and the cycling off of the screens like in this example. I got a bus the other day where the screens just went off even when the Stop Requested sign was hit and people had no idea what was going on, nor did the driver and it wasn't clear if the driver even knew that the stop was requested.  In this photo, that's what happened and why the lady is standing up because she's afraid that her stop will be skipped. I think the screens came on right as the bus was approaching the stop. Here we are one block from the stop and they are still off. Ridiculous.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[4 via Mosholu]

10 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It was brought to my attention this morning that at least two bus stops in The Bronx have been totally removed that should not have been. A number of local bus stops were slated to be removed because of the Bronx Local Bus Redesign, but that has nothing to do with Bronx Express bus service.

Given that there are hundreds of Bronx local bus stops slated to be removed by the DOT at the request of the , I want to make sure that no other commuters wake up and walk over to their stop, only to find it gone and cars parked where the stop should remain, which is what happened to some commuters earlier today. If you encounter this issue, please provide the bus stop and route and also confirm if this is the case in both directions. So far the following the stops have been noted:

-BxM8: City Island Av & Cross Av (removed in both directions because of the Bx29 bus stop removal)

If I may add to this, I believe that they eliminated the Oneida Avenue stop from the 16 and 34 along 233 Street in both directions for the BxM4 to and from Woodlawn Heights and the Van Cortlandt Av East stop on only the Woodlawn Heights direction for the BxM4 along 233 Street, though the 16 and 34 are no longer supposed to stop at those places.

[IAlam]

12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Additionally, multiple commuters have complained about the new express buses and the Stop Requested issues. The Stop Requested bell was removed on the new express buses and the screens are supposed to display that information, but are either cycling off or cycling through ads and not showing the Stop Requested alert, leading to passengers missing their stop. The  has been alerted and is currently working to fix this tech issue across all of the new express buses. To my knowledge, is not an issue for any of the older express buses.

Don't the drivers have a light on their dash still? I thought the reason it was eliminated was because the drivers didn't need the big sign in the front where there's a stop request light on the dash that's supposed to light up.

[QM1to6Ave]

2 hours ago, IAlam said:

Don't the drivers have a light on their dash still? I thought the reason it was eliminated was because the drivers didn't need the big sign in the front where there's a stop request light on the dash that's supposed to light up.

I believe I have seen some sort of "stop requested" section of the B/O's dash light up when someone pushes the button. The issue for me is that there is no audible ding/"stop requested" verbalization on a lot of Prevosts, and if the screens aren't showing "stop request", you don't know if A- the button is working or B- if the B/O actually saw the alert appear or not. The ding and audible "stop requested" at least makes it more likely the B/O becomes aware of the stop request.

 

[NBTA]

There’s a double muffled blinker indication sound that detects a stop has been requested on the new X3-45s. It shows on their dash, but it’s annoying when the entire bus and everyone else can’t hear if a stop has been requested. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

If I may add to this, I believe that they eliminated the Oneida Avenue stop from the 16 and 34 along 233 Street in both directions for the BxM4 to and from Woodlawn Heights and the Van Cortlandt Av East stop on only the Woodlawn Heights direction for the BxM4 along 233 Street, though the 16 and 34 are no longer supposed to stop at those places.

Really?!? This is unbelievable, but I expect there will be more. Can you get me photos of these stops? That would be greatly appreciated, as people that use those stops will wonder what happened. If they remove any of the No Standing signs, there will be no way for bus operators to know those are actually still express bus stops. That happened to a lady this morning. She went to get her bus to find the stop removed going to work and coming home.

 

2 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I believe I have seen some sort of "stop requested" section of the B/O's dash light up when someone pushes the button. The issue for me is that there is no audible ding/"stop requested" verbalization on a lot of Prevosts, and if the screens aren't showing "stop request", you don't know if A- the button is working or B- if the B/O actually saw the alert appear or not. The ding and audible "stop requested" at least makes it more likely the B/O becomes aware of the stop request.

 

 

4 hours ago, IAlam said:

Don't the drivers have a light on their dash still? I thought the reason it was eliminated was because the drivers didn't need the big sign in the front where there's a stop request light on the dash that's supposed to light up.

From what I know they do, but doesn't mean people aren't missing their stop. What is happening with the passengers is they absolutely don't hear the chime when the stop is requested. As an example on my bus last week, someone rang the bell in Manhattan after the last pick-up. No one is paying attention to any bell then, as sometimes people ring it by accident. Turns out this lady wanted to get off in Manhattan (not a regular rider - been noticing people trying to take the express bus a few stops and then get off quite a bit lately) and I guess she didn't know that the next stop wasn't until 230th & Broadway, so we're going along after she went to up the front and asked. Now we're on the Deegan approaching the first drop-off stop. People start ringing the bell. Nothing is indicated on the screens that the stop was already requested and once you request the stop the first time, there is no chime or any noise to tell you after that, so now people are getting up frantically hitting the button thinking the bell is broken. I had observed all of this and just made a mental note since people had been complaining to me about it. The screens continued to play and display ads and everything but show that the stop had been requested. What's really annoying is they don't display anything until you are literally right at the stop. By then you could very easily miss your stop if the driver forgets. What happens is people get up and run to the front thinking their stop will be missed. Any bus that stops short... Forget it. People may go flying. I've seen this a lot lately where people and running up front with the bus still in motion, sometimes not holding on either.

I got a response over the weekend that their tech folks would work on this to reprogram the screens. I have no idea how long that will take, but it is definitely needed. My concern is that one of them is leaving this week, but hopefully the work will continue to fix this mess across the system. Common sense isn't so common, that is that the minute someone requests a stop, the screens should display the alert and keep it up until the stop is made.

As for the removal of bus stops, I expect more of them to be removed that are still actually stops, so if people could get me photos, that would be appreciated.

[7-express]

13 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yes, that's exactly what they are working on and what I requested. They have all of the information. Hopefully it'll be addressed soon. That and the cycling off of the screens like in this example. I got a bus the other day where the screens just went off even when the Stop Requested sign was hit and people had no idea what was going on, nor did the driver and it wasn't clear if the driver even knew that the stop was requested.  In this photo, that's what happened and why the lady is standing up because she's afraid that her stop will be skipped. I think the screens came on right as the bus was approaching the stop. Here we are one block from the stop and they are still off. Ridiculous.

Sadly, any software fix they make for this likely won't help with a screen off or system malfunction state.  Why they couldn't at least have an old school "Stop Requested" light in the front of the bus like the MCIs do in the front as a backup is beyond me.  Doesn't seem like it'd cost a whole lot more than the mess they have now.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, 7-express said:

Sadly, any software fix they make for this likely won't help with a screen off or system malfunction state.  Why they couldn't at least have an old school "Stop Requested" light in the front of the bus like the MCIs do in the front as a backup is beyond me.  Doesn't seem like it'd cost a whole lot more than the mess they have now.

No idea, but I'm guessing the  thought it was a good idea to have it this way. I'm on a new one now. It displays the mask reminder and alternates between other ads and the approaching stops.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[QM1to6Ave]

7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

No idea, but I'm guessing the  thought it was a good idea to have it this way. I'm on a new one now. It displays the mask reminder and alternates between other ads and the approaching stops.

It's amazing how many glitches are in these new systems. Are we the first major system to use them?? I can't imagine that these same issues haven't occurred in other transit systems.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

It's amazing how many glitches are in these new systems. Are we the first major system to use them?? I can't imagine that these same issues haven't occurred in other transit systems.

Not sure, but Prevost is ceasing to manufacture at that factory after this year.

https://www.busandmotorcoachnews.com/prevost-to-end-new-york-manufacturing-operation/#:~:text=Prevost will end manufacturing commuter,Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA).

[QM1to6Ave]

3 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Not sure, but Prevost is ceasing to manufacture at that factory after this year.

https://www.busandmotorcoachnews.com/prevost-to-end-new-york-manufacturing-operation/#:~:text=Prevost will end manufacturing commuter,Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA).

LOL, yeah, that about sums it up

[IAlam]

19 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

From what I know they do, but doesn't mean people aren't missing their stop. What is happening with the passengers is they absolutely don't hear the chime when the stop is requested. As an example on my bus last week, someone rang the bell in Manhattan after the last pick-up. No one is paying attention to any bell then, as sometimes people ring it by accident. Turns out this lady wanted to get off in Manhattan (not a regular rider - been noticing people trying to take the express bus a few stops and then get off quite a bit lately) and I guess she didn't know that the next stop wasn't until 230th & Broadway, so we're going along after she went to up the front and asked. Now we're on the Deegan approaching the first drop-off stop. People start ringing the bell. Nothing is indicated on the screens that the stop was already requested and once you request the stop the first time, there is no chime or any noise to tell you after that, so now people are getting up frantically hitting the button thinking the bell is broken. I had observed all of this and just made a mental note since people had been complaining to me about it. The screens continued to play and display ads and everything but show that the stop had been requested. What's really annoying is they don't display anything until you are literally right at the stop. By then you could very easily miss your stop if the driver forgets. What happens is people get up and run to the front thinking their stop will be missed. Any bus that stops short... Forget it. People may go flying. I've seen this a lot lately where people and running up front with the bus still in motion, sometimes not holding on either.

I got a response over the weekend that their tech folks would work on this to reprogram the screens. I have no idea how long that will take, but it is definitely needed. My concern is that one of them is leaving this week, but hopefully the work will continue to fix this mess across the system. Common sense isn't so common, that is that the minute someone requests a stop, the screens should display the alert and keep it up until the stop is made.

As for the removal of bus stops, I expect more of them to be removed that are still actually stops, so if people could get me photos, that would be appreciated.

I'm not surprised it's causing confusion but I do know that a couple do have a bell, I just don't recall where they're based out of. It's been months since I've last been on one so I'm still shocked to here a lot of these buses still don't have one. That being said I wonder why they got rid of it in the first place. Like I'm aware on the earlier version of the prevost ppl didn't the bell because of how loud it was, but I'm surprised they went the radical route of getting rid of it all together. I'm glad I caught on quickly but I guess that shouldn't be expected for most people especially if those screens aren't working like they're supposed to.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 hours ago, IAlam said:

I'm not surprised it's causing confusion but I do know that a couple do have a bell, I just don't recall where they're based out of. It's been months since I've last been on one so I'm still shocked to here a lot of these buses still don't have one. That being said I wonder why they got rid of it in the first place. Like I'm aware on the earlier version of the prevost ppl didn't the bell because of how loud it was, but I'm surprised they went the radical route of getting rid of it all together. I'm glad I caught on quickly but I guess that shouldn't be expected for most people especially if those screens aren't working like they're supposed to.

Those are specs that the vendor can decide on I would imagine, which is fine, but if the screens are going to be used to display Stop Requested alerts, then they need to be programmed accordingly, which is really the issue. I see the same situation on every trip now, as I did going to and from Manhattan yesterday, as I got a new bus each way. The chime sound is not as loud and piercing as before (thankfully). All they need to do is have the Stop Requested displayed from the time someone rings the bell until the time the stop is made and that would stop the confusion. People sometimes hear the chime and then look to the screens to see if their request has registered because the average passenger does not know that the drivers have their own alert system (I didn't either), so naturally they're thinking ok, I just rung the bell, now it should display on the screen so that the driver knows.

Then as I said, in some cases, the driver is not alerted despite the bell being rung and I'm not sure why that is either, so the easiest solution is to reprogram the screens. I'm sure they aren't going to stop production just for a bell and these are what we called change orders when I was in the construction industry that differ from what was agreed to in the base contract, so there can be added costs quickly if the scope of work differs considerably form what was originally agreed upon. This is how you have cost overruns on projects if the client (in this case the  doesn't think things through properly).

Edited July 27, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Those are specs that the vendor can decide on I would imagine, which is fine, but if the screens are going to be used to display Stop Requested alerts, then they need to be programmed accordingly, which is really the issue. I see the same situation on every trip now, as I did going to and from Manhattan yesterday, as I got a new bus each way. The chime sound is not as loud and piercing as before (thankfully). All they need to do is have the Stop Requested displayed from the time someone rings the bell until the time the stop is made and that would stop the confusion. People sometimes hear the chime and then look to the screens to see if their request has registered because the average passenger does not know that the drivers have their own alert system (I didn't either), so naturally they're thinking ok, I just rung the bell, now it should display on the screen so that the driver knows.

Then as I said, in some cases, the driver is not alerted despite the bell being rung and I'm not sure why that is either, so the easiest solution is to reprogram the screens. I'm sure they aren't going to stop production just for a bell and these are what we called change orders when I was in the construction industry that differ from what was agreed to in the base contract, so there can be added costs quickly if the scope of work differs considerably form what was originally agreed upon. This is how you have cost overruns on projects if the client (in this case the  doesn't think things through properly).

This should be from, not form. Autocorrect...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 7/25/2022 at 7:40 PM, 4 via Mosholu said:

If I may add to this, I believe that they eliminated the Oneida Avenue stop from the 16 and 34 along 233 Street in both directions for the BxM4 to and from Woodlawn Heights and the Van Cortlandt Av East stop on only the Woodlawn Heights direction for the BxM4 along 233 Street, though the 16 and 34 are no longer supposed to stop at those places.

I was just asked about those BxM4 stops. Were you able to confirm if they are indeed removed? 

[4 via Mosholu]

5 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I was just asked about those BxM4 stops. Were you able to confirm if they are indeed removed? 

No I was not able to confirm for sure.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

No I was not able to confirm for sure.

Ok, when you pass by there again, let me know please. Thanks.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

TRAVEL ALERT: UPDATE ON RE-INSTATED BxM8 BUS STOP: City Island Av & Cross St 

-While the bus stop in both directions was erroneously removed, BxM8 bus operators have been told to continue to serve the stop regardless of the fact that there is no physical bus stop in either direction. 

-I don't have a timeline as of when the physical stops will be restored just yet, as that is on the DOT, but the request is in. Apologies for anyone that has been inconvenienced.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

@Lawrence St That BxM3 stop should now be corrected with the right signage. Let me know if it is next time you pass by there.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Lawrence St]

41 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

@Lawrence St That BxM3 stop should now be corrected with the right signage. Let me know if it is next time you pass by there.

Already??

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Already??

Yup. This one I did formally. In the past, if I request it through a DOT contact, they may have the workers take a photo for me and e-mail me when they finish like they did when you asked to have that other BxM3 stop done by 261st.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

UPDATE: Bus Stop Restorations

-BxM8: City Island Av & Cross Av (RESTORED in both directions)