If You Were Robert Moses in 2009 What New Subways Would You Build?

[7LineFan]

Tbirdbassist, would express service from Main Street continue as well?

[Tbirdbassist]

Yes, because the first concern is to ease the current crowding. The upper level/bayside extension would first be open from Queensborough Plaza to Northern Blvd and Main St or Parsons Blvd.

 

 

In the peak hours trains would run on both levels. The upper level will have stops at the current express stations with the exception of Broadway-74th St.

 

 

 

The only problem I foresee with service is there being crowding at the junction of the levels between Queens Plaza and 33rd St. I don't know if the 7 can handle any more trains per hour between Times Sq and Queensplaza. I assume not.

 

 

To avoid that, a new river tunnel and subway line could be built, could be labeled as the new . That would be the train to bayside and would essentially be a only using the 7's ROW and utilizing track connections in case of reroutes

 

 

The new would turn south onto Jackson Ave where a new station also called Queens Plaza would be built. This would make the Queens Plaza Area a large complex with free transfers between all lines.

 

It would continue down Jackson and west onto 44th Dr fly over the 7 tracks, stop at 21st st with a transfer to the stop as well as 23rd Ely-Court Sq . After that it would duck into a new river tunnel.

 

In Manhattan it would run under 48th, 49th, or 50th st stopping at Lexington-3rd Ave, 5th-6th Ave, 7th-8th Ave, and 10th Avenue.

 

There it would turn down the West Side Highway and become elevated down the middle using the same construction method as the JFK Airtrain (I only say elevated because I'm not sure of how stable the ground is, a lot of Manhattan is land-fill. Also it would just be AWESOME to have an El on the WSH).

 

Stations would be at 42nd, 34th, 23rd, 14th, Christopher St., Canal St, and Chambers St. Chambers would be the Terminal in Manhattan (BMCC and Stuyvesant HS).

 

However the tracks would duck back in the ground just after Chambers and connect to the west side IRT either just after or just before Rector St. This would be a grade crossing ( I doubt there's much room to duck under. so regular service by the to new South Ferry probably wouldn't happen. This would be for non revenue moves and what not, revenue service if necessary or if it could be done without slowing down the west side lines service.

[7LineFan]

Yes, because the first concern is to ease the current crowding. The upper level/bayside extension would first be open from Queensborough Plaza to Northern Blvd and Main St or Parsons Blvd.

 

In the peak hours trains would run on both levels. The upper level will have stops at the current express stations with the exception of Broadway-74th St.

 

The only problem I foresee with service is there being crowding at the junction of the levels between Queens Plaza and 33rd St. I don't know if the 7 can handle any more trains per hour between Times Sq and Queensplaza. I assume not.

 

To avoid that, a new river tunnel and subway line could be built, could be labeled as the new . That would be the train to bayside and would essentially be a only using the 7's ROW and utilizing track connections in case of reroutes

 

 

The new would turn south onto Jackson Ave where a new station also called Queens Plaza would be built. This would make the Queens Plaza Area a large complex with free transfers between all lines.

 

It would continue down Jackson and west onto 44th Dr fly over the 7 tracks, stop at 21st st with a transfer to the stop as well as 23rd Ely-Court Sq . After that it would duck into a new river tunnel.

 

In Manhattan it would run under 48th, 49th, or 50th st stopping at Lexington-3rd Ave, 5th-6th Ave, 7th-8th Ave, and 10th Avenue.

 

There it would turn down the West Side Highway and become elevated down the middle using the same construction method as the JFK Airtrain (I only say elevated because I'm not sure of how stable the ground is, a lot of Manhattan is land-fill. Also it would just be AWESOME to have an El on the WSH).

 

Stations would be at 42nd, 34th, 23rd, 14th, Christopher St., Canal St, and Chambers St. Chambers would be the Terminal in Manhattan (BMCC and Stuyvesant HS).

 

However the tracks would duck back in the ground just after Chambers and connect to the west side IRT either just after or just before Rector St. This would be a grade crossing ( I doubt there's much room to duck under. so regular service by the to new South Ferry probably wouldn't happen. This would be for non revenue moves and what not, revenue service if necessary or if it could be done without slowing down the west side lines service.

 

If they didn't tear it down, they could have used the other side of Queensboro Plaza for the new ...

 

So let me get this straight.

 

continues as normal with peak direction express service.

is express only over the line, local all other areas.

 

A map would really help too.

[metsfan]

You guys are focusing heavily on the subway operations and not really bringing in other ideas. For example, shea stadium was a robert moses project, so was MSG, all the big highways, bronx whitestone, etc etc. Think outside the subway and put some ideas down here that have to do with the whole city & region not just what bus stops are where and what stations are express.... He was a city planner, not head of the (NYCT).

 

- A

[Tbirdbassist]

This thread is about if you were Robert Moses and were strictly a subway/train person. We already disccused in the early pages of this thread that Rogert moses was not a fan of puiblic transport.

 

Robert Moses is mentioned because he had a lot of moeny and got things done. This thread should really be titled "If you had no money limitations and had the poer to get things done, what would you do to the subway?".

 

This thread should stay on the topic of the subway, since that was it's original intent.

[LTA1992]

Yes, because the first concern is to ease the current crowding. The upper level/bayside extension would first be open from Queensborough Plaza to Northern Blvd and Main St or Parsons Blvd.

 

 

In the peak hours trains would run on both levels. The upper level will have stops at the current express stations with the exception of Broadway-74th St.

 

 

 

The only problem I foresee with service is there being crowding at the junction of the levels between Queens Plaza and 33rd St. I don't know if the 7 can handle any more trains per hour between Times Sq and Queensplaza. I assume not.

 

 

To avoid that, a new river tunnel and subway line could be built, could be labeled as the new . That would be the train to bayside and would essentially be a only using the 7's ROW and utilizing track connections in case of reroutes

 

 

The new would turn south onto Jackson Ave where a new station also called Queens Plaza would be built. This would make the Queens Plaza Area a large complex with free transfers between all lines.

 

It would continue down Jackson and west onto 44th Dr fly over the 7 tracks, stop at 21st st with a transfer to the stop as well as 23rd Ely-Court Sq . After that it would duck into a new river tunnel.

 

In Manhattan it would run under 48th, 49th, or 50th st stopping at Lexington-3rd Ave, 5th-6th Ave, 7th-8th Ave, and 10th Avenue.

 

There it would turn down the West Side Highway and become elevated down the middle using the same construction method as the JFK Airtrain (I only say elevated because I'm not sure of how stable the ground is, a lot of Manhattan is land-fill. Also it would just be AWESOME to have an El on the WSH).

 

Stations would be at 42nd, 34th, 23rd, 14th, Christopher St., Canal St, and Chambers St. Chambers would be the Terminal in Manhattan (BMCC and Stuyvesant HS).

 

However the tracks would duck back in the ground just after Chambers and connect to the west side IRT either just after or just before Rector St. This would be a grade crossing ( I doubt there's much room to duck under. so regular service by the to new South Ferry probably wouldn't happen. This would be for non revenue moves and what not, revenue service if necessary or if it could be done without slowing down the west side lines service.

 

But, what i was thinking was that instead of Times Square station being the terminal, extend the past Javitz Center to Battery Park City. Or Have it connect to the and continue down to South Ferry. But with the extension to Baterry Park City, Build a new East River tunnel next to the current one that connects the Upper Level of the Roosevelt El. to a new Lower Express level to South Ferry. locals will run between College Point and Battery Park City while Expresses run between Little Neck Queens via Northern Blvd/Roosevelt El. Upper Level to South Ferry. The can connect with the Tracks after the tracks split from the original line. After the Splits, the connects to the new tracks to the new South Ferry. These would basically be the routes:

 

Local. College Point, Queens via College Point Blvd. Subway/Roosevelt El. Lower Level to Battery Park City, Manhattan via 42nd Street/11th Avenue/ West Street upper Level.

 

Express. Little Neck, Queens via Northern Blvd. El./Roosevelt El Upper Level to South Ferry via 42nd Street/11th Avenue/West Street Lower Level.

 

The Extension to College Point could be subway because the Main Street Terminal is underground. The Extension could continue to Little Neck Via Elevated that way the two lines don't slow each other down on the switches.

[yankees12]

Here's my plans (plans not requiring construction of new lines are in italics):

 

Queens:

-Extend the to the Cross Island Parkway via Roosevelt Ave. to Northern Blvd.

-Extend the to the Clearview Expressway via Hillside Ave.

-Extend the down Merrick Blvd. to Springfield Blvd.

 

Brooklyn:

-Extend the down to Kings Plaza via Flatbush Ave.

-Extend the to Lefferts Blvd., run the to Far Rockaway permanently.

 

Manhattan:

-Extend the down to 23rd St. via 11th Avenue.

-Create a stop at Avenue C on the .

-Bring back as a local train, running the same length as the , with the becoming express.

-Extend the to 207th Street.

-Create street-grade light rail down 10th Ave. from 72nd Street to 14th Street.

-Close off 50th Street and make it a pedestrian mall with light rail running down the middle of it.

 

Bronx:

-Extend the to the Gun Hill Rd. stop, via 3rd Ave., to Webster Ave. north of Fordham Rd., turning on Gun Hill Rd. to go to White Plains Rd.

-Extend the ( to Norwood-205th St full-time except late nights, make a full-time express train in the Bronx except for late nights.

-Eliminate service on the White Plains Rd. line north of 180th St., and make it run to Eastchester-Dyre Ave. all the time.

 

Way more ambitious than the is going to do anytime soon, but it's realistic, and far less far-reaching than even the IND Second System plan. This would be a terrific subway extension that would be at least practical to build, IMO.

[Trainmaster5]

Here's my plans (plans not requiring construction of new lines are in italics):

 

Queens:

-Extend the to the Cross Island Parkway via Roosevelt Ave. to Northern Blvd.

-Extend the to the Clearview Expressway via Hillside Ave.

-Extend the down Merrick Blvd. to Springfield Blvd.

 

Brooklyn:

-Extend the down to Kings Plaza via Flatbush Ave.

-Extend the to Lefferts Blvd., run the to Far Rockaway permanently.

 

Manhattan:

-Extend the down to 23rd St. via 11th Avenue.

-Create a stop at Avenue C on the .

-Bring back as a local train, running the same length as the , with the becoming express.

-Extend the to 207th Street.

-Create street-grade light rail down 10th Ave. from 72nd Street to 14th Street.

-Close off 50th Street and make it a pedestrian mall with light rail running down the middle of it.

 

Bronx:

-Extend the to the Gun Hill Rd. stop, via 3rd Ave., to Webster Ave. north of Fordham Rd., turning on Gun Hill Rd. to go to White Plains Rd.

-Extend the ( to Norwood-205th St full-time except late nights, make a full-time express train in the Bronx except for late nights.

-Eliminate service on the White Plains Rd. line north of 180th St., and make it run to Eastchester-Dyre Ave. all the time.

 

Way more ambitious than the is going to do anytime soon, but it's realistic, and far less far-reaching than even the IND Second System plan. This would be a terrific subway extension that would be at least practical to build, IMO.

Except the ,, White Plains Road riders are not going to let that happen. There are quite a few Bronx and Westchester county politicians who will tell you that the White Plains Road line has always been a LEXINGTON ave/East Side service and they are right. 241 st was the terminal for the Lex and Third Ave lines and historically most of the ridership during the rush hours come and go from Westchester County ( or points north) or the north Bronx and the East Side of Manhattan. The 7th Av trains started at Bronx Park terminal and later East 180th St. The was a Dyre Ave service at first. Look who chairs the legislative committee(s) which oversee the and you'll see my point.