Maserati7200 Posted January 19, 2009 Share #1 Posted January 19, 2009 I was lucky enough to visit Washington DC 4 times so far and 3 of those times taking the subway around town. Besides the cool stations, the trains are amazing! Their propulsion systems (The Rohr, CAF, and un-rehabbed Bredas) sound wonderful! They also have great acceleration! Why can't NYC have trains like that? Our past NTT orders have only been from Bombardier, Kawasaki, and Alstom. What about CAF, Rohr and Breda? I'm sure everyone noticed how the 75 footers in the NYC subway system are very slow. Well, WMATA's cars are 75 feet long and accelerate better than our IRT cars! Why does the order cars that have amazing propulsion systems and great acceleration? Imagine if our cars were as fast as DC's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted January 19, 2009 Share #2 Posted January 19, 2009 I was lucky enough to visit Washington DC 4 times so far and 3 of those times taking the subway around town. Besides the cool stations, the trains are amazing! Their propulsion systems (The Rohr, CAF, and un-rehabbed Bredas) sound wonderful! They also have great acceleration! Why can't NYC have trains like that? Our past NTT orders have only been from Bombardier, Kawasaki, and Alstom. What about CAF, Rohr and Breda? I'm sure everyone noticed how the 75 footers in the NYC subway system are very slow. Well, WMATA's cars are 75 feet long and accelerate better than our IRT cars! Why does the order cars that have amazing propulsion systems and great acceleration? Imagine if our cars were as fast as DC's? Even if our cars are designed to be as fast as the ones in DC, they will be slow due to our crappy antiquated signalling system. The fixed block system won't allow for higher speeds. A moving block system could and that is what they are trying to do with the CBTC (if it ever works without bugs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Julio Posted January 19, 2009 Share #3 Posted January 19, 2009 I hope CBTC never gets implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
error46146 Posted January 19, 2009 Share #4 Posted January 19, 2009 i think kawashitti ( i mean kawasaki =D ) and MTA has some sort of secret deal..all of our NTT orders they had some part of building it, and i remember reading somewhere the next NTT order will be built by them too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted January 19, 2009 Share #5 Posted January 19, 2009 I hope CBTC never gets implemented. Yeah but, the L already has that technology installed. It's not that simple to uninstall it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted January 19, 2009 Share #6 Posted January 19, 2009 I hope CBTC never gets implemented. Let me guess... So you can be an actual T/O? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Julio Posted January 19, 2009 Share #7 Posted January 19, 2009 Let me guess... So you can be an actual T/O? Yes. I would rather operate the train than just stare at screen. Plus with CBTC it would eliminate C/Rs from the trains as well which not only is against the Union contracts but would put passengers at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted January 19, 2009 Share #8 Posted January 19, 2009 Yes. I would rather operate the train than just stare at screen. Plus with CBTC it would eliminate C/Rs from the trains as well which not only is against the Union contracts but would put passengers at risk. Very true. The MTA is doing this to "save money". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UlmerPark B6 Posted January 19, 2009 Share #9 Posted January 19, 2009 Very true.The MTA is doing this to "save money". Yea, when is it gonna pay off in 20 yrs? By then the CBTC system will get crapppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted January 19, 2009 Share #10 Posted January 19, 2009 Yea, when is it gonna pay off in 20 yrs? By then the CBTC system will get crapppy. Crap investment much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pablo M 201 Posted January 19, 2009 Share #11 Posted January 19, 2009 i think kawashitti ( i mean kawasaki =D ) and MTA has some sort of secret deal..all of our NTT orders they had some part of building it, and i remember reading somewhere the next NTT order will be built by them too Kawasaki has the rights of the designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted January 19, 2009 Share #12 Posted January 19, 2009 i think kawashitti ( i mean kawasaki =D ) and MTA has some sort of secret deal..all of our NTT orders they had some part of building it, and i remember reading somewhere the next NTT order will be built by them too The R179s? Possibly, but I can't buy every cent of it. Where you got this from? Subchat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Julio Posted January 19, 2009 Share #13 Posted January 19, 2009 Also, remember Maserati, the way the MTA gets things built is by putting out a bidding contract. The company that can offer the lowest price and meet the MTA's needs wins the contract. So who knows if the companies that build the rolling stock for WMATA put a bid that was higher compared to bids put in by Kawasaki, Alstom and Bombardier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted January 19, 2009 Share #14 Posted January 19, 2009 Also, remember Maserati, the way the MTA gets things built is by putting out a bidding contract. The company that can offer the lowest price and meet the MTA's needs wins the contract. So who knows if the companies that build the rolling stock for WMATA put a bid that was higher compared to bids put in by Kawasaki, Alstom and Bombardier. That's what happened to the R32 order. Budd was the lowest bidder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Glen Posted January 19, 2009 Share #15 Posted January 19, 2009 I was lucky enough to visit Washington DC 4 times so far and 3 of those times taking the subway around town. Besides the cool stations, the trains are amazing! Their propulsion systems (The Rohr, CAF, and un-rehabbed Bredas) sound wonderful! They also have great acceleration! Why can't NYC have trains like that? Our past NTT orders have only been from Bombardier, Kawasaki, and Alstom. What about CAF, Rohr and Breda? I'm sure everyone noticed how the 75 footers in the NYC subway system are very slow. Well, WMATA's cars are 75 feet long and accelerate better than our IRT cars! Why does the order cars that have amazing propulsion systems and great acceleration? Imagine if our cars were as fast as DC's? Washington Metro>NYC Subway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustclee Posted January 19, 2009 Share #16 Posted January 19, 2009 Washington Metro>NYC Subway Certainly true if you're talking about cleanliness and all that stuff. But those new(er) systems are nowhere as interesting as older ones like New York's and London's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted January 20, 2009 Share #17 Posted January 20, 2009 Certainly true if you're talking about cleanliness and all that stuff.But those new(er) systems are nowhere as interesting as older ones like New York's and London's. And nowhere as extensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserati7200 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted January 20, 2009 That's what I like about NYC subway. The old artwork and craftsmanship you find in the IRT and BMT stations. Not really the case with IND stations, they're pretty basic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted January 20, 2009 Share #19 Posted January 20, 2009 The IND system is a very basic one, but as originaly built was over built. On the in Brooklyn there are about 2 or 3 places to lay-up trains. Also the IND built interlockings everywhere to facilitate sevice changes. You dont see things like that on the WMATA. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Julio Posted January 20, 2009 Share #20 Posted January 20, 2009 Plus, all services of the MTA runs 24/7. The NYC Subway is also if I'm correct, the only mass transit system in the world with a local and express service setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted January 20, 2009 Share #21 Posted January 20, 2009 I know people maybe stongly oppose me on this. I been to Washington, San Fransico/Oakland(Bart) Chicago, Toronto and London subways. I dont see why the hate of 'no conductors' in NYC. The cost of running a mass transit is very high. Yes MTA exces can and should take a fare cut and they are too many managers. However do we really need station agents at all 400-plus subway stations in NYC? Or Conductors. That money saved for old chool Union jobs can go towards a CBTC system and hiring staff at High Tech centers that can montior all 400 stations in NYC and send NYPD Transit cops to crime scene asap. Washington is a great system that NY could learn from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted January 20, 2009 Share #22 Posted January 20, 2009 Station agents are important because there needs to be someone around to go to who can get on a radio when an emergency happens in a station. As for a "monitoring center" it takes time to dispatch police officers, often the crime will have been completed and the person leave the system, not to mention the inefficiencies of "highly educated" people sitting in front of computers (because average Joe can't do this...) making higher salaries because they are considered white collar, and sitting in an expensive new surveillence center. Conductor's are needed because when a woman with a baby in a stroller who isn't following the rules has the stroller between the doors, a conductor will not close down and crush the stroller. A computer might. Conductors also provide a second layer of safety if a T/O is operating poorly, he'll take the train out of service. When you cut out those positions you reduce the safety of the system...computers are better than humans at a lot of things but NOT at judgment calls and safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted January 21, 2009 Share #23 Posted January 21, 2009 Station agents are important because there needs to be someone around to go to who can get on a radio when an emergency happens in a station. As for a "monitoring center" it takes time to dispatch police officers, often the crime will have been completed and the person leave the system, not to mention the inefficiencies of "highly educated" people sitting in front of computers (because average Joe can't do this...) making higher salaries because they are considered white collar, and sitting in an expensive new surveillence center. Conductor's are needed because when a woman with a baby in a stroller who isn't following the rules has the stroller between the doors, a conductor will not close down and crush the stroller. A computer might. Conductors also provide a second layer of safety if a T/O is operating poorly, he'll take the train out of service. When you cut out those positions you reduce the safety of the system...computers are better than humans at a lot of things but NOT at judgment calls and safety. IAWTP 100% :tup::tup::tup::tup::tup: While station agents are rarely in action, they can provide the necessary help a tourist needs. Sure, you can say ASK ANYONE or READ THE BLOODY MAP. But still, will it provide the needs for the tourists? The C/R could give valuable information to confused passengers about reroutes or general route information. You think the T/O or the computer could do this? Plus the Union is not happy with OPTO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATCOman Posted January 21, 2009 Share #24 Posted January 21, 2009 Plus, all services of the MTA runs 24/7. The NYC Subway is also if I'm correct, the only mass transit system in the world with a local and express service setup. Philly and Chicago have express and local service too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrapinStation Posted January 21, 2009 Share #25 Posted January 21, 2009 Washington Metro>NYC Subway Actually, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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