MHV9218 Posted December 1, 2015 Share #1 Posted December 1, 2015 I recently got my hands on a 1972 Vignelli map for astonishingly cheap, and luckily it's one of the editions that has colored strip maps on the back. I'm been going through the times and thought I'd post up the TA's travel estimates as something of a follow-up to a thread I did a while back with the '68 map. This is from the second printing of the '72 map, so it's the J as opposed to the QJ, K to KK, etc. One day I'll have to post up all the Vignelli maps I've managed to pick up over the years--adore the things. I've included some unofficial tallies for the whole trips. B DIV A 42 to 207: 25 min 42 to Lefferts: 45 min 42 to Mott Av: 65 min [tally -- 207 to Lefferts: 70 min / 207 to Mott: 90 min] AA 168 to Hudson Term: 35 min B Coney Island to 42: 50 min CC Bedford Park to 59: 30 min Bedford Park to Hudson Term: 45 min D 42 to Coney Island: 50 min 42 to 205: 35 min [tally -- 205 to CI: 85 min] E Chambers to 179: 45 min Chambers to Rock Park: 56 min [tally -- 179 to Rock Park: 101 min] EE Continental to Whitehall: 50 min F 42 to 179: 35 min 42 to CI: 50 min [tally -- 179 to CI: 85 min] GG Continental to Smith-9: 45 min Continental to Church: 55 min J Broad to 168: 45 min exp Broad to 168: 50 min local K no times LL Rock Park to 8 Av: 35 min M Broad St to CI: 40 min N CI to 57-7: 50 min QB CI to 57-7: 50 min RR 42 to Ditmars: 20 min 42 to 95: 40 min [tally -- Ditmars to 95: 60 min] A DIV 1 42 to 242: 35 min 42 to SF: 15 min [tally -- 242 to SF: 50 min] 2 42 to 241: 45 min 42 to New Lots: 40 min [tally -- 241 to New Lots: 85 min] 3 42 to 148: 20 min 42 to Flatbush: 30 min [tally -- 148 to Flatbush: 50 min] 4 42 to Woodlawn: 35 min 42 to Flatbush: 35 min 42 to Atlantic: 20 min [tally -- Woodlawn to Flatbush: 70 min / Woodlawn to Atlantic: 55 min] 5 42 to Dyre: 40 min 42 to E 180: 30 min 42 to Utica: 30 min 42 to SF: 15 min [tally -- Dyre to Utica: 70 min / Dyre to SF: 55 min] 6 PBP to 42: 35 min 7 Main St to 42: 25 min 8 Gun Hill to 149 St: 20 min Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted December 1, 2015 Share #2 Posted December 1, 2015 I ridden a train yesterday that did 8th Ave - E105th in about 33 minutes or so, would have gotten to Rock Park in 34-35 minutes if the terminal wasn't full.. The current day takes 15 minutes longer to do 241st - 42nd than it did back then, current day 45 minutes from 241st you'd only be in Harlem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted December 1, 2015 Share #3 Posted December 1, 2015 I keep going back to an old video of the . I can't even begin to comprehend how much faster the old cars were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted December 2, 2015 I ridden a train yesterday that did 8th Ave - E105th in about 33 minutes or so, would have gotten to Rock Park in 34-35 minutes if the terminal wasn't full.. The current day takes 15 minutes longer to do 241st - 42nd than it did back then, current day 45 minutes from 241st you'd only be in Harlem! That makes sense, as the CBTC is one of the only trains running near the old pace. That said, they recently slowed the trains down in the tubes under the Hudson, so even that isn't going as fast as it could. I keep going back to an old video of the . I can't even begin to comprehend how much faster the old cars were. That video is phenomenal. The run into Woodside is my favorite. Makes sense, though--faster trains, harsher brake shoes, fewer timers. Considering the Citibank building is up, must be some time in the early-mid 1990s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon2305 Posted December 2, 2015 Share #5 Posted December 2, 2015 That makes sense, as the CBTC is one of the only trains running near the old pace. That said, they recently slowed the trains down in the tubes under the Hudson, so even that isn't going as fast as it could. That video is phenomenal. The run into Woodside is my favorite. Makes sense, though--faster trains, harsher brake shoes, fewer timers. Considering the Citibank building is up, must be some time in the early-mid 1990s. That video was taken some time in 2000. I know cause there used to be more of those video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestrictOnTheHanger Posted December 2, 2015 Share #6 Posted December 2, 2015 I also noticed that the train didnt slow down at all for the worker on the tracks between 69th and Woodside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted December 2, 2015 Share #7 Posted December 2, 2015 That video was taken some time in 2000. I know cause there used to be more of those video. None of the signs named for the numbered streets have the numbers on them. Note 61st Street just says "Woodside" at 8:15 or so. It had to have been before 1998 for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted December 2, 2015 Share #8 Posted December 2, 2015 I also noticed that the train didnt slow down at all for the worker on the tracks between 69th and Woodside Probably did not see him in the sun, but he saw the yellow flags which is why he sounded the horn and slowed down.... I keep going back to an old video of the . I can't even begin to comprehend how much faster the old cars were. Yes, a lot of routes were a lot faster back then. And it wasn't even that long ago. The redbirds post 1991 weren't really that fast, but the system allowed them to get up to speed more often. Express meant express back in the day. It didn't mean 30 MPH. There was also a lot less congestion on weekends, and during the middle of the day. Evenings are still my favorite time at work since you rarely get plugged, flagging isn't out yet, and you can really move. The early "pre-rush" is also nice since flagging is usually just finished, and you're ahead of the heavy volume of train traffic that's coming shortly. As far as the OP, you can still move the train quite nicely if you know what you're doing. These are runs I've done with current equipment and the current signaling configuration, but it requires no congestion which is almost always the limiting factor. Here are some of the ones I can speak to. B DIV A 42 to 207: 25 min (I've done 26) 42 to Lefferts: 45 min (still possible with a good conductor) 42 to Mott Av: 65 min (still possible with a good conductor and a fast train) [tally -- 207 to Lefferts: 70 min / 207 to Mott: 90 min] - both still possible with no delays/good crew/good train. AA 168 to Hudson Term: 35 min - though the route doesn't exist anymore probably can be done in 36-37. 19/20 mins 168 to 59, 10 59 to W4, 6m W4 to WTC. B Coney Island to 42: 50 min - compare to the D since the B was via West End at the time. This is still possible provided you are West End Exp. CC Bedford Park to 59: 30 min still possible Bedford Park to Hudson Term: 45 min - still possible D 42 to Coney Island: 50 min - compare to the B to Prospect Park, then the Q Prospect Park to Coney since it was local in 1972. except in the evening. Overnight you will have flagging underground, during the day you will have flagging above ground. This would require everything to go perfectly, especialy at DeKalb. 42 to 205: 35 min - still possible but unlikely [tally -- 205 to CI: 85 min] E Chambers to 179: 45 min - no longer possible. Even if you had no congestion, you're looking at 48 minutes from WTC to Jamaica Center. 179 is more stops. Chambers to Rock Park: 56 min - Comparing to an A to Rock Park...Still possible [tally -- 179 to Rock Park: 101 min] F 42 to 179: 35 min closer to 40 mins. 42 to CI: 50 min not possible. A lot of times in 40 minutes just from Jay St. to Coney. [tally -- 179 to CI: 85 min] J Broad to 168: 50 min local this is not even close to possible anymore. the J back then was going further than the J of today in less time. you're looking at 54-55 mins today from Broad to Jamaica Center. The old line had 3 more stops after 121 St, but they were closer together, so we'll call it the equivalent of 2 extra stops in less time! LL Rock Park to 8 Av: 35 min you're looking at 40 mins, best case. the computer often runs early when ATO is active, but the train will get held sooner or later, or locked out at the terminal. N CI to 57-7: 50 min best case scenario is 46 mins to 34th St when it was express. that gives you a shot, but it's unlikely. looking at 51-52 express (since that's what we're comparing to), more local. RR 42 to Ditmars: 20 min comparing to the N of today...possible in a best case scenario, but crowding makes this unrealistic except possibly overnight 42 to 95: 40 min no way. just no. [tally -- Ditmars to 95: 60 min] A DIV 1 42 to 242: 35 min still possible 42 to SF: 15 min 18m best case scenario [tally -- 242 to SF: 50 min] 2 42 to 241: 45 min 47m absolute best case scenario. normally this is closer to 50, 55, or an hour, but 47 is the best i've ever done and that's hauling serious ass, 40m to 96th. 42 to New Lots: 40 min comparing to the 3 of today, you're looking at probably 42m best case since I've done the line in an hour, and it's 18m from Lenox to 42. [tally -- 241 to New Lots: 85 min] 3 42 to 148: 20 min about right. Northbound is slower than southbound, so what takes 18m south takes 20m north. 42 to Flatbush: 30 min comparing to the 2 of today...no way. just to get out of Brooklyn from Flatbush is 26m. [tally -- 148 to Flatbush: 50 min] 4 42 to Woodlawn: 35 min totally doable with no congestion. 42 to Flatbush: 35 min compare to 5 of today. actually can't. never had no congestion as a 5 in Brooklyn. 42 to Atlantic: 20 min totally doable. [tally -- Woodlawn to Flatbush: 70 min / Woodlawn to Atlantic: 55 min] 5 42 to Dyre: 40 min extremely tight but still possible 42 to E 180: 30 min extremely tight but still possible 42 to Utica: 30 min compare to 4 of today. possible to do faster (28m) but only in offpeak times. 42 to SF: 15 min possible, since it's 14m to Bowling Green [tally -- Dyre to Utica: 70 min / Dyre to SF: 55 min] 6 PBP to 42: 35 min one of the hardest "on time performances" I've ever had in my career was 54 minutes (local) from Brooklyn Bridge to Pelham Bay. I've done it exactly once, and I had the combination of an outstanding conductor, absolutely no delays or congestion, and a good train. That was a 36 minute pace from PBP to 42. So I'm going to call this not possible. 7 Main St to 42: 25 min not possible, even express is 27-28m. Local is 32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel The Cool Posted December 2, 2015 Share #9 Posted December 2, 2015 I wonder how fast was the Orange from 21st Street to Brighton Beach? I've ridden that route as a kid but never from end to end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAlam Posted December 5, 2015 Share #10 Posted December 5, 2015 7 Main St to 42: 25 min not possible, even express is 27-28m. Local is 32. Actually it is possible for 25min. There is a difference between schedule and actual run time. I always first express in the morning and in the afternoon. Its always about 25 min each way from Main to TS my 2:49 from TS comes to Flushing just shy of 3:15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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