R32 3838

I just remembered that they are going to be doing the 63rd st trackwork GO which is a long term GO, So this might affect some car moves since the   won't be on queens blvd. this makes me think a good chunk of R179s would be moved from ENY to the and the R46s get pushed onto the , transferred to CI or sidelined as more R211s come into service.

2 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

The combination of the M/V and the cut of the W was purely for saving money. This was not about saving cars or SAS construction. Where the heck did you come up with that? 

the would have been cut regardless or the those remaining R44s would have stayed another 6 years. The R44 retirement played a role when it came to the cuts. Of course they would make it only seem like it was to just save money but anyone who is smart enough would know that they had no choice but to combine the and in order to retire the R44s that weren't replaced by R160s. If the stayed would have been reduced to rush hour only because during the midday the lay ups that usually laid up north of 57th st couldn't lay up there anymore due to the work they were doing in that area for 2nd ave and lex and 63 station rehab. They laid those trains up between times sq and just south of 57th st on the express tracks. This is also why the ran local between 34th and 57th st to Astoria.

Yes It was to save money but there were other factors that caused them to cut as well. They were even thinking about doing a 3rd option order of R160s but didn't do it due to not getting the funds to do it.

34 minutes ago, MJHmarc said:

Has anyone made a list of the features that didnt’t make the cut of the finished R211’s ?

The only things cut form the R211s are the usb charging ports. It could be other things we don't know too but that's the only thing that was cut.

1 hour ago, Daniel The Cool said:

Few corrections: The  started Full Length right after 9/11 and the R62s didn't start transferring from the to the  until 2003. The first day a set ran on the  was May 9 2003.

I thought the didn't start getting R62s until late 2002, I didn't pay attention to the IRT that much at the time when i was only focused on the redbirds

1 hour ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Correct. Right after 9/11 the line ran ten car trains as  New Lots to Van Cortlandt Park , iirc.

Yeah up into around september of 2002 is when it returned to south ferry.

26 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

It would be ideal for both the C and the G to have 10 car trains, but there are not enough 10 car trains to allow this change to happen. We would have to wait for option 2. Option 1 will only make the C full length.

This would have happen much  sooner if the MTA would have ordered 50 8-car r179's to retire the r42's and make the rest of the r179 order 10 car trains in addition to the extra 10 car trains the MTA received as a result of the r179 delays.

Also, both the A and C need to be 100% NTTs by the end of 2024 due to CBTC.

In addition, the V and W weren't eliminated due to train shortage. They were both eliminated due to budget cuts that also eliminated several bus routes. These budget cuts were a result of the 2008-2010 recession.

The train shortage was caused by the premature retirement of the r44's and the MTAs dumb decision of not ordering extra r179's.

 

There would be enough cars, They can delay the R46 retirement by 6 months to a year until there is enough R211s to boot the remaining R46s which would be at coney island. Option I would pretty much kill off the last batch of R46s out of pitkin if the were to be 10 cars before it goes fully tech. And it's imposible to make the and fully tech when the R211 order and 8th ave CBTC have been delayed. 2025 is when the last of the base order is completed.

The shortage did cause them to combine the and . once they did that, it freed up to 15 sets of R46s that killed off the remaining R44s that weren't replaced by the R160s. The decision to retire the R44s were made in the fall of 2009, almost a year before the cuts took place.

the had most of the 1900's, 2000 and half of the 2100 series. The was all 9 cars until i would say 2002 is when it went full length and those cars started going to the starting in February of 2002. The R62s from the   started displacing the R62As in mid 2002. The briefly had some R62As from the   before going to the . the kept 2 sets of R62As until March of 2009 when the got 10 cars and the got the other half and the last 2-3 sets of R62s from the were sent to the

The had 1651-the early to mid 1900's (this group started out on the until 1986-87 when they started to move over to the ) then those got sent to the  starting in February of 2002 with a set or two going to the as well

The is still the same minus some cars that came from the and line

I will explain this again regarding the

2 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

There are enough 8 car trains to make the G full length. The problem is that there are not enough 10 car trains to make the C full length. We would have to wait for option order 1 to make both the C and G full length.

Again, Making the 8 cars would be more costly than it being full length. the would have to have a dedicated fleet of 8 car trains meaning the yard that houses the would need additional cars as spares. If the is 10 cars, It can share with the exsiting 10 car fleet reducing spare factor and allowing for more flexibility

2 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

dude... you presented your opinion about them as fact. 

 

And... to be honest... that wasn't a premature decision. They were being held togther with faith and ducktape...

 

to be frank, i keep hearing many people crying about a car shortage... when: 

A: they never really share serious evidence of its effects. I'm not saying it's not there, just that no one ever seems to show how there is a problem...

 

B: you ignore the real shortage that is affecting service... PEOPLE. we are not done building back up our employee roster post Covid. We still have a crew shortage which is much worse than a car shortage. 

 

furthermore... given the circumstances they were retired in... a deadly viral pandemic... having a set up where I, as conductor, would have to exit into the passenger compartment every time I needed to change which side I was operating was not an ideal situation. 

The evidence is and was clearly there. Why do you think they combined the   and . The sudden R44 retirement caused a big shortage due to NYCT reefing 70% of the 60 foot SMEE fleet. The being cut was basically a result of 2nd ave construction rather than a cut, we knew it was coming back which it did 6 years later. If they didn't reef as many SMEE's back then, the   would have been full length R32s and R46s with the A-A units being housed at 207th st. The was always planned to go full length dating back to 2009 when they thought at the time the R32s would retire back in 2010.

The has been getting slammed with more ridership and should have been 8 or 10 cars at that time and the plan was to make the 8 car R32s and R179s when the shutdown was going to happen but that got canned. 

15 minutes ago, Kamen Rider said:

Why? Was that ever said that was the plan? or are you just assuming... again... much like this constant assumption everyone has that the C will go to all 600 feet...

I mean it already is kinda. They way the is set up right now is dumb since it's confusing to both the passengers and crew and they tried this back in 2017 but they banned the R46s off the until they lifted the ban in order to get rid of the R32s due to politics (before covid)

Ridership is growing and is going to grow even more if Congestion pricing starts next year. has to prepare for that, current service levels atm is not ideal to handle the influx of more people when you have short and trains and other problems.

This is why and the state should delay congestion pricing until 2026 because clearly they aren't ready and having a crew shortage only makes it worse. The over entitled will take out their frustrations out on TA workers instead of the folks at 2 Broadway. 

30 minutes ago, RandomRider0101 said:

Does it have something to do with the way the cars were made, or is it just the fact that they're open gangways in general?

Either way, that's not good news for the MTA since they have been touting this as the future of the NYC subway. The deliveries would be faster if option 2 is standard cars. I'll be satisfied either way as long as we get option 2.

There are various things but for now these are all rumors that are going around from NYCT employess. I'm hoping it isn't true.

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I am really disappointed with NYCTA’s decision to prematurely retire the R32’s and R42’s. They should have at least kept them as a reserve fleet, which was the original plan, before they started getting scrap happy.

They will never get out of a car shortage if they keep playing this game. In what universe is it a good idea to retire cars that you need when Option 1 & 2 isn’t even confirmed yet?

Option I is approved and Option II should be within six months to a year. People might be disappointed that option II might be standard R211A's, Transit (not itself but RTO) is not happy with the R211T's and the union has gotten involved.

With Option I they can replace all of the R46s and have a surplus of about 50 extra cars.

39 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

1. Low Income ppl WILL afford it because there is a special discount for them. 
 

2. It’s actually that ppl don’t give the MTA too much credit because they’ve been trying to do what they can do to get from point A to point B. 
 

3. R211s won’t solve problems either. You need R268s to take care of that. 
 

4. Making excuses won’t help neither. What do you expect? Autocracy? 

It would probably come with a catch, and most low in come people still use mass transit compared to driving in this city. The middle class would be the ones getting screwed the most

The R211s is going to solve the shortage issues since you only need 1,055 to fix the current shortage (110 cars to full the void of the R32s that retired and weren't replaced by the R179s and 945 cars to replace the R46s) the rest of the order is for fleet expansion. The R268s are going to be direct R68/R68A replacements

People tend to make excuses for this agency when they fail to keep up with the times. Every decade or more there is equipment shortages, The shouldn't be 300 feet in 2023 but yet it is due to stupidity of this agency and it's planners not keeping up with the increasing ridership on the line.

They need to up their game, No one wants to hear "We can't do this that and the third because we want to be cheap" When they, the city and state want people in cars to pay $23 below 23rd st.

2 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

 What is the MTA's current top priority in regards to the C:

- Make the C 100% NTTs for 8th Avenue CBTC?

Or 

-Make the C 100% full length?

That is a question that only time will tell.

Any delays with 8th Avenue CBTC may allow the r46's to stay longer on the A/C.

 

The can be full length before CBTC. 8th av CBTC is already delayed by 6 months to a year anyway so i wouldn't worry too much.

4 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

As long as the C has 8 car r179's, the 10 car r179's will stay on the A. It will be too confusing to run 8 and 10 car r179's on the C.

The 8 car r179's will most likely stay on the C until at least option order 1. 

The base order of r211's will just displace the r46's off the A/C. Just do the math.

As for congestion pricing, only time will tell if ALL subway lines will experience high ridership as a result of this. Keep in mind that there are drivers that will prefer to pay more on tolls than get on a train.

Low income to middle class people will not be able to afford it, Middle class people already get taxed to death, why do you think they been moving out of NYC. The ones who are still here due to their jobs will be forced to take mass transit. Low Income people with cars will be forced to take mass transit. The Subway by default is the cheapest option, Express buses is the 2nd option and the 3rd is commuter rail (if they do city ticket at all times then it'll be just as cheap as the subway)

People always want to discredit shit and they have been proven wrong time and time again all to make excuses for the which can't even handle their budget right. People claimed that ridership wouldn't grow due to work at home, Fast forward to present day and ridership is close to 2019 levels (i count people, not metrocard swipes like the does) Then you have thousands of migrants here that would add to the ridership.

The R211s will fix the car shortage issue when all option orders are taken.

I'm not going to make excuses for an agency who is beasting to tax people who drive while offering the same level of service that wouldn't meet the potential demand because they can't manage their money right. That's the issue with people on here and elsewhere.

1 hour ago, RandomRider0101 said:

What happened to 9108-9112?

It got flooded at woodhaven blvd last year by that big storm we had, currently getting repaired

They aren't gonna have a choice next year if congestion pricing starts in the spring of next year to make the 100% full length. This is why they should have waited until 2026 to start it instead of wanting to push it through into 2024. The only other way to kinda do this without issue is have the A-A R46 sets along with the regular R46s at 207th temporally until the option order R211s start coming in which would be by 2025-2026. This was an original plan back in late 2009 in order to fit 6 car R46s into 207th st barn when they wanted to replace the R32s in 2010 by R160s until they changed their minds due to the R44s. The   would have been full length R44s (pitkin) and full length R46's (207th/pitkin) with the A-A units and other 4 car units being at 207th.

This is why is retarded, They want to push this shit through but yet they aren't really prepared. The R211s are a step in the right direction but everything else should have been planned 2 years ago. 207th is currently getting worked on but no one knows if extending the barn is included.

There is no way they can pull this 60% 8 car 40% full length nonsense next year.

3396/97 are scrapped

29 minutes ago, rbrome said:

I reeeaaally hope the MTA waits until they can properly evaluate open gangways using the new test trains before placing any new train orders. Otherwise this whole experiment in open gangways will have been for nothing. (I think they should have waited before placing option order 1, but whatever.) 

They did option order I so they can get rid of all the R46s since the base order plus the option order is more than enough to replace the R46 fleet and have a surplus of 155 cars (in reality 55 cars since the first 100 R211 are replacing the already retired R32s.)  while Option Order II would just be for fleet expansion.

37 minutes ago, LGA Link N Train said:

Let’s put this into perspective.

140 of the R-211’s being Delivered will make up for the loss of the R-32’s that were retired back in 2022.

940 R-211’s are needed to Fully Replace the R-46 Fleet.

I’m not going to Count the 75 R-211S’s as they’re not relevant to my point.

As it stands now, the Base Order and Option 1 Combined will be enough to displace the R-68/68A to CIY if we take 6th Avenue CBTC into Account, but I don’t think it will be enough to make the  and  Full Length Yet. 
 

…thats where Option Order 2 comes in.

 They can still Make the and full length, They just have to keep a certain amount of R46s until there is enough R211s to retire those remaining R46s. They are aiming for april of next year to start congestion pricing so they will have to hang on to some R46s plus Coney island is going to need more R46s to increase their spare factor.

With the feds finally giving the green light for congestion pricing, At any given moment Option Order II is a lock and the money coming from congestion pricing will fund the next new orders (R262/268)

10 hours ago, Ale188 said:

I have to say…this is very awkward that 4124 is delivered. I mean I know they don’t have to be in numerical order but still. It’s hard for me to think of this number being delivered THIS EARLY!!!

The cars before these cars were already built. If you looked at the Kawasaki video, 4090 was built 6 months ago (not fully built but the shell was moving around the plant). They are probably at the 4200s by now.

8 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

Okay… people… can we keep the arguing over equipment allocation out of this thread?

NOTHING is set in stone beyond the first 211As replacing Pitkin’s R46 compliment.

Everything else, we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it.

could the 211s end up In Concourse? Yes. 
could they end up at Jamaica? Also yes.

 

the simple answer is we’re not at the point yet.

this is like asking someone who just had a child where they’re going to high school. There are things that need to happen before we get to that point.

so, do us all a favor and have a little more patience.

I don't see the problem with this, I don't get the issue at all. As long as we keep it respectful, I don't see the issue with it at all. That's the point of a forum. I get it it can get annoying but unless it's a rule (which would really be dumb) It shouldn't be an issue. It's like when people talk assignments, people get anal about it when it isn't serious. we all know assignments are subject to change.

48 minutes ago, ArchytectAnthony said:

Oh dear, dont get me started on the r211 assignment arguments in the youtube comments. The kids there are even crazier about this lmfao. Atleast the conversations here are more tame in my opinion but i agree, its best to just wait and see what happens to r211s within the next few years.

yea the youtube comments are something else. This is why i don't get the flack on here. People are going to share their opinions regardless on assignments, What they think and etc. People get annoyed over the most stupidest things on here sometimes.

37 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

It's possible the R211 is still on the same run because most line crews still aren't qualified yet. Haven't seen anything posted about additional crews being trained on the R211s.

They been training just about everyone on the R211s

52 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The base order of r211As will most likely displace all the r46's off the A/C. That's is probably one of the reasons why the 8 car r179's are being retrofitted with CBTC, even though the J/Z is not getting CBTC any time.

The first option order will most likely make the C and G 100% full length and make the B/D 100% NTTs. The G will either get r179's from the C or get r160's from ENY. If CI gets r211As is going to be for the B. 

I do see second option order going to Jamaica, regardless if it's open gangway or not, while CI gets some of the r160's plus all the r68's.

The MTA needs to exercise the second option order not just for CBTC, but also for the second phase of SAS, which will require more trains for the Q.

Is it true that the MTA included the r268 in the same capital program as the r262's???

The will be better off going full length for fleet flexibility. Making the   8 cars would create another issue. Now the would have to have a dedicated fleet of 8 car units meaning the spare factor would have to increase for that fleet meaning more cars for Jamaica or Coney Island and this would cost even more money. The main reason why the was moved back to Jamaica was for fleet flexibility besides CBTC related things. If the is 10 cars, it can still share fleet with the and like it does now since it's 5 cars and this would allow it to continue to be 100% flexible with Jamaica's fleet or even Coney Island's fleet if it were to go back. The extra 8 car units should be used for additional 4th ave service with either the being extended or something similar to the brown . I would call it the nassau st shuttle or something with a brown .

The 8 car R179s getting CBTC would allow the to use those cars as well.

But I think for now the would still run 40% full length and 60% 8 cars until around the start of congestion pricing. The R211s would just take the place of the R46s. It's a dumb thing to run the as it is now but i think NYCT and car equipment will need more time to figure out things. Who knows they might have already figured it out.

52 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

Because we won’t know if CBTC would be done installing on All BMT/IND lines by at least 2031 (7.5 years time given) when another round of car orders starts to come in play. 

All IND lines will need to be all tech trains regardless. The and will need tech trains because of 8th ave due to re routes and GOs. When 6th ave CBTC work starts, The and are going to be re routed down 8th ave or Broadway ( via broadway and west end and via 8th ave and culver) The is all R160s now due to fleet flexibility and the soon to be culver CBTC since it shares the line with the when they cut up trains at ave x yard to form trains and vise versa.  Even If 6th ave and crosstown CBTC is done by 2031, They would still need to be all tech trains before CBTC is active. It more of making things more simple rather than complicated. 8th ave is slatted to be done in 2 years but knowing the I would say mid 2026.

Also by the time 6th ave CBTC is completed, The would probably be the first line to get R268s so this way if a gets re routed, It wouldn't be an issue. CI yard would already have a decent chunk of tech trains anyway so adding the first 150 R268s would make both the and 100% tech.

honestly the should get the R211s brand new. Jamaica Could still get the option II cars anyway. If this order is open gangway 100% then I could see this being a Jamaica/ Coney Island order with Jamaica loosing it's remaining R160s and CI getting the rest for the . If it's standard cars then I could see this as a coney Island order since the entire R68 fleet would be at Coney by the time these retire.

2 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Were you actually expecting that the r32's and r46's will stay in service for another 10-15 years?? For what?? So that subway service continues to be delayed due to mechanical issues??

Do you know how annoying it is to get to work or school late because the train broke down?

The real reason why there is a subway car shortage is because the MTA did not order enough r179's.

The subway car shortage will be eliminated with the second option order of r211's.

I'm not saying I'm expecting the R46s to stay for 10 years or was expecting the R32s to stay for another 10 years. My issue is that you guys want to scrap subway cars when there aren't enough cars to fully replace them. We have a car shortage and along with the city and state want to charge people money to go south of 60th st. The needs to be 100% full length, The basically needs to be full length as well.

The R46's will retire but they shouldn't retire them as soon as the first few production R211s goes into service. Can't be short on subway cars when congestion pricing becomes a thing since the ridership would double. We have thousands of migrants on top of potential passengers who aren't going to spend money on LIRR or Express buses to take the subway if they can't drive into the city, That's a lot of damn people. Once they have enough cars for the and or any other service enhancements and increased spare factor then they can retire the R46s with no issue.

You guys also forget that the first 110 R211 cars are the replacements of the last 110 R32s that were retired last year.

41 minutes ago, Comrade96 said:

nothing should go to Jamaica they JUST got the 160s, they shouldnt even be considered for anything

So.... Jamaica should and will get the R211s. Them being all R160s was to have a 100% CBTC compatible fleet. Subway cars move around and this would be no different. The Siemens R160s would be the first to go. The R211s are built for high capacity routes. The   and have the highest ridership in the B division. That alone warrants them to get these cars esp if option order 2 is open gangway.

1 hour ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

IMO the second option order should go to Jamaica, regardless if it's open gangway or not.

The first option order will most likely go to the B, C, D trains due to 8 th Avenue CBTC, which will require the A, B, C, D to be 100% NTTs.

The MTA needs to exercise the second option order because ridership is growing and it will continue to grow as more real estate is being built. Also, the r46's won't last beyond 3 years.

Stop it my guy. The only reason why the R46s took a hit is because they are short on cars. Y'all did this when the R32s were here.

54 minutes ago, Chris89292 said:

So you’re saying the R211’s should replace the R68/A’s from the  and place them on the  so they replace the R46’s? Replacing old with old doesn’t make sense to me, I doubt regular passengers will notice the differences from the 46’s to the 68’s

Well Broadway isn't getting CBTC and if any tech train does go to CI, The majority of them will be on the

I wouldn't count on anything being retired, The most they'll do is put a decent chunk of R46s in storage until they'll figure out if congestion pricing is a go or not. I don't know why people keep thinking they should retire the R46s when you have the line running 50% full length trains and the which is packed to the brim but yet wants to play games by telling people that shorter trains are better when in reality they have a shortage of fleet. 

The "R46s need to go and other bullshit" is over exaggerated, Yes their reliability has taken a hit but that's because they retired the R32s and reduced the spare factor while thinking the R211s would be in service in the summer of 2022 hence the decision to retire the R32s in 2021.  The R46s are still going to be replaced but they really can't start scrapping them or even retire them until they fix all of the other issues in terms of the fleet shortage.

You guys forget that there is a GO with no trains going to 207th. A good chunk of R179s might be stuck in 207th st yard from being laid up friday evening or some cars are being inspected in pitkin yard. It's not that serious, R46s might have issues from time to time but they are needed and will be still needed when a good chunk of R211s are in service. Y'all want the R46s gone without having logic and seeing that we have a car shortage and the fact that , The state and city is pushing for congestion pricing. We are going to need everything until there is enough cars to start the retirement process.

It's like you guys want congestion pricing to happen so damn bad but want to scrap subway cars that they shouldn't scrap until they fix the car shortages and service enhancements. Thankfully option order I is happening and i expect option II to be awarded within 6 months to a year from now.

11 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Don’t get me started, you mention anything about enforcing traffic rules with cyclists and the entire biking community will come after you…🙄

I use the bike lanes myself on my scooter when doing deliveries, Most of these clowns blow through red lights like it's nothing. Then when they get hit by a car, the media wants us to feel bad for them.

Even though this unrelated to bikes, That woman that got dragged 100 feet for crossing trying to make the light should teach anyone to be careful. I was in that area when it happened but didn't realize what happened until i went on twitter and saw the aftermath of that which was very graphic.