The 3rd Avenue L train. Closed in 1955.

[Santa Fe via Willow]

Like SI's North Shore & South Beach trains, the 3rd Avenue Elevated train closed in 1955. Damn shame. Too bad it couldn't have been saved. It went from the SI Ferry Terminal all the way up to the Bronx yes? Would a 2nd Avenue subway even be necessary had the 3rd Ave L been saved & kept in service?

 

Plus, the 3rd Ave L would have given Manhattan a Chicago aura.

[R32 3348]

IMO they should've closed the Third Ave. el but kept the Second Ave. el. Or, at least have secured full funding for the Second Ave. subway before closing down the el. A Second Ave. el would be more beneficial than a Third Ave. el.

[Roadcruiser1]

One thing about the Third Avenue El if it remained it would need repairs. Also the Third Avenue El if it exist today would lower the real estate value around that location. They won't be happy about that. Also R32 is right they should have planned a Second Avenue Subway. It would already exist if it was built at that time. For you to know the Third Avenue El had stations between South Ferry and Gun Hill Road. The Second Avenue El had stations between City Hall and 125th St.

 

 

Second and Third Avenue Elevated.

 

 

Second Avenue Elevated

 

 

Third Avenue Elevated

 

Even though Chicago had El's it wasn't a good reason to keep the Second and Third Avenue El's. Plus El's do exist as long as the rail line is running above their heads on a steel structure. The West End Line on the is an example. Although it is true if Third, Second, or both El's still exist there would be no need for a Second Avenue Subway. Besides New York had other El's which was Sixth and Ninth Avenue but they weren't kept even if New York looked like Chicago. South Ferry used to have a train station to serve all the El's. It was Coney Island for the El's of Manhattan. It allowed people to transfer from any El line in Manhattan.

 

 

See the picture above. If you were to go back to 1928 and go to the Staten Island Ferry Manhattan Terminal. You would see trains running from the nearby Mcdonalds, and Battery Park to stop at a train station located on the roof of the Terminal. Oh yeah a fact here the Staten Island Ferry have been moving passengers since 1817.

 

 

 

Enjoy the ride.

[DJ MC]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Roadcruiser1]

I might be foaming a little but imagine if the Third Avenue El had never been torn down and today an R68/A ran down Third Avenue. That would be so cool.

[SubwayGuy]

The 2nd Avenue El and 3rd Avenue El were never properly replaced. However the 6th Avenue and 9th Avenue El were by both the 6th Avenue subway and 8th Avenue subway. The 3rd Avenue El however would need to be strengthen to handle the Lo-Vs cars and eventually the R12/R14 cars and whatever other new equipment after that. Now if we follow all the events that took place from this right here. http://nycsubway.org/articles/2ndave-neverwas.html

There is a good chance everyone here would still be seeing Els rumbling through Manhatten. SAS idea was delayed or they somehow lost the funding. They would start construction in the early 1970s, but those tunnels that were built would be known as the "Tunnel to Nowhere" after funding was lost and by this time it was the deffered maintenance/graffiti era, which made things even worse.

 

SAS has been discussed since the 1930's. The 1930's didn't see it happen (supposed to go into Brooklyn and join the Fulton IND at Court St.) The 1950's didn't see it happen either (after all, this is why the ten R-11 cars were ordered - as a precursor to a larger order to open SAS). The 1970's as you mentioned also didn't materialize even though that was as far as they got with construction.

 

Ooh...railien quiz...who knows what type of elevated equipment is featured in that above photo? (reposted below)

Hint: Those aren't gate cars, Lo-V's, or Hi-V's. Joe and INDman need not answer since I know you guys know.

 

[Roadcruiser1]

The only cars I can think of that isn't Lo-V or High-V are composites, BU type cars, C type cars, and the Q-type queens car.

[checkmatechamp13]

Like SI's North Shore & South Beach trains, the 3rd Avenue Elevated train closed in 1955. Damn shame. Too bad it couldn't have been saved. It went from the SI Ferry Terminal all the way up to the Bronx yes? Would a 2nd Avenue subway even be necessary had the 3rd Ave L been saved & kept in service?

 

Plus, the 3rd Ave L would have given Manhattan a Chicago aura.

 

The North Shore and South Beach Rail Lines didn't close in 1955. The last train for each branch left St George at midnight on March 31, 1953.

[SubwayGuy]

The only cars I can think of that isn't Lo-V or High-V are composites, BU type cars, C type cars, and the Q-type queens car.

 

Nope none of the above...

 

There are more that you've missed though...it's one of those...

[DJ MC]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[MTARegional Bus]

I might be foaming a little but imagine if the Third Avenue El had never been torn down and today an R68/A ran down Third Avenue. That would be so cool.

 

Yea,but Now that exists in the Spider man 2 Movie Universe :cry:

 

Roadcruiser1 Right,If they would have keep it the real estate in Manhattan would be lower,but then again a lot of business near by the EL closed or moved else were.

 

Also am surprised that the Bronx portion of EL took so long to close on till a decade later,when it was closed for good in 1973,witch goes to show you that the Bronx,Queens and Staten Island are the most neglected boroughs of are city,it all ways Manhattan and Brooklyn,Manhattan and Brooklyn,:mad:

[SubwayGuy]

MUDCs or Multiple Unit Door Control cars. Converted Manhatten elevated Gate cars. Conversion done in the 1930s. Also they were fitted with Low voltage controllers in place of the High voltage ones. Retired by the 1956.

 

Correct, those are the MUDC's

[Messino]

The ELs suck.. They should tear them all down. They are ugly, crap falls from above and drips...and the worst.. They cast a huge shadow below..

[Roadcruiser1]

If they torn down all the El's in New York then most people can't get anywhere. For example I live near the West End line. It's elevated and the uses it. If they tear it down I would have to rely on either the Sea Beach Line or the Bay Ridge Line. It would take me longer to get to Manhattan. Cause people to spill onto the and the and it will force me to take a longer commute on the B8 to get to them. Taking down the El is a bad idea. If you look at the reason the Second Avenue Subway is under construction. It's because they torn down the Second and Third Avenue Elevated. It's a bad idea to tear down El's without planning a replacement. If all the El's are going to be torn down I want to see a replacement. If we kill all the El lines in New York right now people would be more worse. They would have to take buses to get to train lines. Even the IND Culver Line is elevated. Coney Island is an elevated station. You are telling massive amounts of people trains are not going to reach them because you live near an elevated line. Parts of the Brighton Line is Elevated. The Flushing Line is elevated. The section of lines in the Bronx Brooklyn and Queens are almost all elevated.

[Messino]

I meant they should all be subways..Not tear them down and leave the neighborhoods with no service.

 

If they torn down all the El's in New York then most people can't get anywhere. For example I live near the West End line. It's elevated and the uses it. If they tear it down I would have to rely on either the Sea Beach Line or the Bay Ridge Line. It would take me longer to get to Manhattan. Cause people to spill onto the and the and it will force me to take a longer commute on the B8 to get to them. Taking down the El is a bad idea. If you look at the reason the Second Avenue Subway is under construction. It's because they torn down the Second and Third Avenue Elevated. It's a bad idea to tear down El's without planning a replacement. If all the El's are going to be torn down I want to see a replacement. If we kill all the El lines in New York right now people would be more worse. They would have to take buses to get to train lines. Even the IND Culver Line is elevated. Coney Island is an elevated station. You are telling massive amounts of people trains are not going to reach them because you live near an elevated line. Parts of the Brighton Line is Elevated. The Flushing Line is elevated. The section of lines in the Bronx Brooklyn and Queens are almost all elevated.

[Roadcruiser1]

Yes but tunneling is more expensive and wastes a lot of time. Second Avenue is the best example.

[DJ MC]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Roadcruiser1]

Wouldn't El's be the easiest way to extend the NYC Subway. It's easier. It's a much cheaper option. When I read it up El's aren't really that expensive to construct per mile. The only thing I am worried is it would lower real estate value in a lot of locations. Though the locations that weren't served before are served. They would have to dig to bedrock and anchor big steel beams on both sides of the structure and pour concrete for the base. Follow by a steel plate screwed to two sides of the 2 beam. Then they could build plates on the top and put the rail lines, stations and equipment. It's better then drilling and digging for years.

[NX Express]

Wouldn't El's be the easiest way to extend the NYC Subway. It's easier. It's a much cheaper option. When I read it up El's aren't really that expensive to construct per mile. The only thing I am worried is it would lower real estate value in a lot of locations. Though the locations that weren't served before are served.

 

Noise, property values, and stuff falling down from the el are all reasons to stick to subway.:tup:

[Roadcruiser1]

I think it's better to bring service to people. Even though noise and real estate is a concern. Transportation through our city is a concern. We know that the population of NYC grows by 2 million every ten years. By the year 2060 NYC would have 22 million people. We need more transportation for an increasing population. Doing it faster and cheaper then drilling tunnels are a good option.

[NX Express]

I think it's better to bring service to people. Even though noise and real estate is a concern. Transportation through our city is a concern. We know that the population of NYC grows by 2 million every ten years. By the year 2060 NYC would have 22 million people. We need more transportation for an increasing population. Doing it faster and cheaper then drilling tunnels are a good option.

 

That rate will not continue for long...for the following reasons.

 

-Where are all those 14 million people going to go?:confused:

-If this rate had been constant, NYC would have had 0 people in 1970.:confused:

[Roadcruiser1]

Acutally on the status NY's population is going up and it goes up by muptiples. Also that's the problem about NY's population. Some of them would be kids living with their parents. Some would have new familys and Some would be bums. As you know the story when the cities population goes up building heights go up. Right now the measurement is 2 million people every 10 years.

[NX Express]

Acutally on the status NY's population is going up and it goes up by muptiples. Also that's the problem about NY's population. Some of them would be kids living with their parents. Some would have new familys and Some would be bums. As you know the story when the cities population goes up building heights go up. Right now the measurement is 2 million people every 10 years.

 

Eventually it's going to stop, as people are going to feel overcrowded and leave.

[Roadcruiser1]

I don't think so. More people come in. Houses go skyscrapers replaces them. Smaller buildings go. Bigger buildings rise. Areas that are suburban like Staten Island would become urban. The subway expands. It isn't going to stop. The next thing we would be taking Werchester and Nassau as boroughs. It won't stop as long and New York has room to expand.

[NX Express]

I don't think so. More people come in. Houses go skyscrapers replaces them. Smaller buildings go. Bigger buildings rise. Areas that are suburban like Staten Island would become urban. The subway expands. It isn't going to stop. The next thing we would be taking Werchester and Nassau as boroughs. It won't stop as long and New York has room to expand.

 

IMO, New York is already too big and overcrowded (aaaaachoooo! aaachoooo! Lexington Avenue) for its own good. The infrastructure will just be insufficient and overcrowded.

 

You mentioned room to expand...Where? Into New York Harbor? Or have people commuting 3 hours in one direction as a regular occurrence (people already commute from far LI, and over 3 hours one way).:eek: