Christie kills ARC tunnel....again!

[Grand Concourse]

You so lucky you haven't gotten shot by now!!

 

 

You can disagree with a person's opinions, but that's a phrase you should concider editing.

[Tokkemon]

You so lucky you haven't gotten shot by now!! NJ Transit is the states #1 mode of transportation with #2 the NJ Turnpike and #3 The Garden State. More people who live in Jersey use railroads to get to New York. Ever been to the NJ Transit corridor at Penn during evening rush? There's people back the hell up into the Amtrak corridor sometimes! Not to mention how worse it get after a major concert/baseball game, football game, ect. Don't SLEEP on NJ Transit because for what it has become today makes the NYC Subway look like a bunch of pipes in the mud. We have people in Northeastern Pennsylvania beginning for NJ Transit service. So please. You sicken me.

 

No. New Jersey's main mode of transportation is the car. New York City's mode is trains, of which (NJT) acts as a commuter rail feeder into NY. There is a very stark difference between the northern half and southern half of the state because of the different suburb areas.

[metsfan]

Ok, i need to clear some stuff up it seems. People off on a tangent.

 

Firstly, Pablo is correct.

 

(NJT) is a vital link for tens of thousands of people. Not just in NJ but in NY and PA. I buy monthly (NJT) passes and uhm i live in PA. I do not own a car.

 

Next, economic downturn happened 2 years ago and is now slowly recovering, you can't recover without spending, it just doesn't work without spending, demand drives growth, and if there's no demand there will be no growth & therefore no recovery.

 

Then there is the ARRA (stimulus bill), which every republican in the country is basically refusing to use money from it, then saying it's failed, while costing jobs. Then going on to say they will cut taxes and spending, even though taxes and spending is a huge part of how the f*****g economy works.

 

On top of that you have a governor who has single handedly hijacked and crashed into a ditch a vital infrastructure project that would create jobs and allow NJ to expand its economy along with PA, NY and CT. He says there will be costs, yes, it's called inflation, and by the time we pay those "costs" the project will largely be underway nearing completion years down the road. He is no hero, he is an idiot that will go down in history as the worst governor in NJ history.

 

Pointing fingers and this that and the other thing or person based on speculation, misinformation and hearsay is EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT TO HAPPEN. This way people are too busy arguing to notice the project still isn't moving forward.

 

This country is so dumbed down and people are so sheltered from ideas and technologies that somehow a high tech new rail tunnel is just "too much".

 

Pathetic, and it makes me f*****g sick that i have to observe such wanton ignorance, arrogance, and misdirected emotions. :mad:

 

Can't people just do the right thing? Is it that hard? :mad:

 

- A

[Tokkemon]

The right thing is to not have to pay billions more than anticipated.

[Grand Concourse]

Not spending for god knows how many billions in overrun to keep a state from going bankrupt is the right thing. What Jersey needs is the federal gov't to give them a 'bailout' of their own.

If the government deems this project as so vital, they should help Jersey by picking up the tab.

 

If you are on welfare, the last thing you need is say a 50" LCD tv or something you can't afford on your own. "Live within your means." A line that is seemingly lost on everyone here.

 

Again: I never said I'm against this, but if a state is broke, it needs additional funds from somewhere and can't be expected to put this one project above their basic needs/functions.

[metsfan]

Let me explain in simple terms....

 

Vital.

 

Important.

 

Holding up the economy till it's completed.

 

Not a luxury.

 

Not going to cost billions over budget.

 

Putting a damper on related plans and projects.

 

Will cost jobs that would have been created if blubber fat left it alone.

 

Does this compute yet? :mad:

 

- A

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Forest Glen]

The MTA has a propensity for starting projects and not finishing them. Conversely, NJ Transit has built the Meadowlands line and the HBLR within the last 10 years. This tunnel was needed to relieve the congestion on a two track, 100 year old tunnel that carries BOTH NJ Transit and Amtrak. Kamen Rider and Grand Concourse want to agree, but since they have personal vendettas with me from other websites, they'll pretend to agree with lard ass Chris Christie.

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[metsfan]

As residents of NY you don't and really can't fully grasp the urgent need for this project. It was/is fully 100% funded and they actually all ready started on phase 1.

 

As for and spending, don't make me laugh. (NJT) is increasing its rail capacity, or trying to, for the first time since its inception. Amtrak isn't giving any money to the project, because its budget is all ready spoken for, not because they don't want to help. (MTA)/NYS should be footing part of this bill since it is carrying people to/from it for work and school and other things that bring money in, as well as allowing :pvl: and :mb: (metro north west of hudson) trains to enter new york directly rather than having pax change at sec or via PATH from hoboken.

 

Thankfully the foresight of (NJT) saw this might happen and they ordered 100 more MLV and added an option order for the ALP-45dp, which would combine in increased service to/from hoboken, and 12 car trains to/from nyp, 2 multilevels per train added on half of nyp trains would increase carrying capacity by ~280 seated passengers, times say 6 or 7 trains is like adding another train in capacity.

 

This project isn't dead, there is just too much at stake for the future of the metro region & surrounding areas. Not doing it isn't a reasonable option.

 

- A

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Infamous85]

Eff a Republican (Bush, Palin, etc.) and Eff & Democrat (Paterson, 2-3rd term Bloomberg, etc.); they both suck when they have too much power or just plain suck in general. You can sit and babble about politics till the cows come home, the donkeys did this and the elephants did that. No one single handily did anything. This country needs to do away with this president & governor red & blue bull___, get a panel of non-elite level-headed people to run things on a country level, a state level, and a large-city level; Mayors (small-medium cities) and other lower level politicians can stay though. But this isn't about politics.

 

They're not being railfans, that ARC tunnel is a very integral project, you'd have to be blind not to see that. It really sucks that it got cancelled, that's jobs down the drain, better transit (better HSR was riding on that), improving the region. But at the same time how are you building something without enough money in the first place, you can point fingers all day long but at the end of the day there wasn't enough $$$$. I don't like Christie either but it's not really his fault here. I personally feel that the government should've stepped it up and NYS could've contributed a little something but whatever, it'll get done eventually, while this region's infrastructure is crumbling under it's own weight I could care less, I already want to move.

 

Even though I'm a transit-fan I can't deal with the delays and slow service and poor schedules anymore, you can keep it. I'd rather be on a 16-lane highway in the Sunbelt states.

[metsfan]

Says the guy from PA.

 

I grasp infromation quite easliy and very quickly. The diffrence is, I can take a step back, look at the entire picture (something you are refusing to do), and then make a descision, basied on all the information, not the bits and parts we want to hear.

 

Projects like this develop cost over runs, which is what Christie was worried about. A 2 mile shallow bore subway tunnel can go 22% over budget in 4 years, what does that say about the posibilies of this project.

 

What it says is there is a great possibily of an over run, which is money the State does not have, WHICH IS THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM.

 

I give up, if you fools want to drive NJ bankrupt, knock yourself out. I'll be waiting to buy the place up.

 

Might want to curb the personal attacks.

 

I am from PA, but i also live 6 miles from NJ, half the people i know live and or work in NJ including my girlfriend of 3 and a half years. My family helped settle new jersey, i can date my family in NJ back to the 1720's, i also have family in long island.

 

I used to give free tours in ny and hoboken/jc to people from other countries, i also do free travel planning assistance, and know the roads rails airlines & busses like few others. I always look at problems from every possible angle.

 

Anyways, the project is fully funded, so i dunno what everyone's problem is, and as far as "oh my god the cost could go up", uhm, yea, so? It needs to be built, and it will create jobs. Next?

 

- A

[Tokkemon]

Anyways, the project is fully funded, so i dunno what everyone's problem is, and as far as "oh my god the cost could go up", uhm, yea, so? It needs to be built, and it will create jobs. Next?

 

Are you gonna pay for the overruns?

[Tokkemon]

Even though I'm a transit-fan I can't deal with the delays and slow service and poor schedules anymore, you can keep it. I'd rather be on a 16-lane highway in the Sunbelt states.

 

Hah! Go live in Philadelphia for a few months. Then you will experience the true meaning of delays. Thank SEPTA for that one. Compared to other cities and the age of its infrastructure, the and (NJT) do phenomenal jobs with what they have.

[Infamous85]

Hah! Go live in Philadelphia for a few months. Then you will experience the true meaning of delays. Thank SEPTA for that one. Compared to other cities and the age of its infrastructure, the and (NJT) do phenomenal jobs with what they have.

 

Haha not East Queens, my commute one-way is 1:30 (not counting daily delays) to go no more than 10 miles. Standing crunched up on a packed crawling bus most of the time, it really sucks, at least once a week I'm in the stairwell with 3-4 other people and I have to get off at every single stop and get back on.

[Grand Concourse]

The MTA has a propensity for starting projects and not finishing them. Conversely, NJ Transit has built the Meadowlands line and the HBLR within the last 10 years. This tunnel was needed to relieve the congestion on a two track, 100 year old tunnel that carries BOTH NJ Transit and Amtrak. Kamen Rider and Grand Concourse want to agree, but since they have personal vendettas with me from other websites, they'll pretend to agree with lard ass Chris Christie.

 

You have reading comprehension problems. I never said I was against [nor for it, just indifferent on] this project. I am saying given the defecit the state is in, they should not be stuck with the bill for the overruns. The government should bail them out if the project is so needed. The governement has no problems bailing out banks and GM, what's one river tunnel to them?

 

You are also friggin paranoid. Just because we don't agree on something doesn't have a thing to do with anything else. You made it personal everytime you resort to childish [under 3-5 words] responses. If you have a disagreement with my opinions, be an adult and state your counterpoints. It's not that hard. You can save everyone the hassle by debating in a mature manner.

 

So save your vendettas for Whineberg. I have no problems with you, if you can be more mature in debating rationally. This is my last offer of a truce.

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Pablo M 201]

Regression at it's best.

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Forest Glen]

You have reading comprehension problems. I never said I was against [nor for it, just indifferent on] this project. I am saying given the defecit the state is in, they should not be stuck with the bill for the overruns. The government should bail them out if the project is so needed. The governement has no problems bailing out banks and GM, what's one river tunnel to them?

 

You are also friggin paranoid. Just because we don't agree on something doesn't have a thing to do with anything else. You made it personal everytime you resort to childish [under 3-5 words] responses. If you have a disagreement with my opinions, be an adult and state your counterpoints. It's not that hard. You can save everyone the hassle by debating in a mature manner.

 

So save your vendettas for Whineberg. I have no problems with you, if you can be more mature in debating rationally. This is my last offer of a truce.

 

Seriously, I'm 25. After what happened at Subchat 2 weeks ago, the last thing I need is another flame war. NYCTF is all I have left. I've officially retired the 1-3 word responses. I'm also willing to let go of the transitspot.com incident.

 

With that said, I honestly believe that the ARC project would be beneficial to Jersey (and I'm not just saying that because I'm a railfan). Republicans have always favored cars over trains.

[Grand Concourse]

I don't understand what your problem is, I am not your enemy here. If anything you are the one provoking things with the 'responses'. So good, keep it that way about that. My advice is if you want to leave, don't promise to leave and return back a few months later as if nothing happened. And I've tried to tell you I've long forgotten about that, whatever it was about. *

 

*If people disagree about a topic, it's not personal. We are not mindless drones where we all think the same things and just mindlessly agree. It's a discussion forum. So keep that in mind if you feel like my opinions contrast with yours. You don't like it, disagree in a debate or ignore it.

 

-

It's not a democrat/republican thing. It's about being fiscally responsible. IF a state can't afford it, why bankrupt it for one project? Go to the government [Obama] and get him to sign a bailout for Jersey to fund the full costs of this tunnel.

[Pablo M 201]

you guys are that lady. you won't listen to any other side of the argument. You're all "But,But, But,But..."

 

Yes, it seems everyone is shunting out what everyone else has to say.

 

Person 1: "But this project is important...."

Person 2: "But cost overruns later aren't worth it...."

 

A bad case of "but" must be going around....

[nycbusfan]

It's not a democrat/republican thing. It's about being fiscally responsible. IF a state can't afford it, why bankrupt it for one project? Go to the government [Obama] and get him to sign a bailout for Jersey to fund the full costs of this tunnel.

I don't think NJ or the Feds should be putting crazy amounts of money into this in these times. In a few years when things hopefully pick up then I would definatly say go ahead with the project. One thing I'm thinking about is if the government keeps spending excessively we may have to pay higher taxes in the future to pay back all this debt. It just doesn't make sense to me to spend more in an economic downturn. We should be cutting as much as possible not spending as much as possible.

[Grand Concourse]

Well, I'm glad you see things without any bias for one thing over the other. I do agree that right now, it is best to 'spend withing their means'. If Jersey can't get the feds to assist in the funding, how can they alone be expected to foot the bill for this project? This is my main point from the start.

 

I never ever said I was against it at all. I just don't think endless spending to get this built in this time period as being a wise use of funds. That is all.