While transit languishes, big plans for interstate 95.

[metsfan]

Just click the links, the one page doesn't let me copy/paste.

 

Basically they are going to put a toll on a vital access route where there is no toll now, making travel times much longer, make a drain on the local economy, and then they plan to waste this capacity by re-routing 95 through bristol into NJ, leaving this new several hundred million dollar bridge, with toll, as a secondary highway.

 

What really needs to happen, is they just need to close 51 A or B on both directions, problem solved. The congestion is caused by having 2 on/off merging lanes within 250 feet of each other. If you close one, the problem goes away. Also, how about raising the gas tax temporarily to pay for the bridge vs a toll, that way the impact is spread over a greater number of people and is paid off sooner.

 

They are nuts with this plan, they really are. This one link across the delaware being closed for up to 2 years would cause massive traffic problems on both sides of the river and potentially add an extra hour of travel time during rush hour.

 

Then, after the new interchange with the turnpike and bridge, they are going to re-number all the exits between bristol and the current bridge, which massively complicates directions for anyone using the old (current) stretch f 95 through bucks county.

 

 

http://www.truckinginfo.com/news/news-detail.asp?news_id=71208

 

http://www.pahighways.com/interstates/I95.html

 

http://www.paturnpikei95.com/sum07openhouse.htm

 

Please, if you live in NJ or PA try to have this idiotic plan killed.

 

- A

[lilbluefoxie]

this project was a long time coming in trying to get I-95 to run continuous from New York through Jersey and Pennsylvania, there was a planned freeway through somerset county, which would have ran from where I-95 becomes I-295 in Trenton up to I-287 and then run along 287 towards the turnpike. Ideally they should have made the entire turnpike I-95 but back then they wanted I-95 to connect with Philidelphia

[metsfan]

Problem is they want to build some i-95 bridge, then move i-95 16 miles to the south, leaving us locals to deal with a toll that will totally wreck travel times.

 

As someone who frequently has to run to catch a train, i also don't appreciate it on a personal level, not to mention having to have the money with you at all times.

 

"Here have this new bridge!.....oh and it is going to have a toll plaza and you have to pay a dollar every-single-time you need to go into NJ" My mom, sister, and 2 of my friends live in my town and work in trenton for a non-profit. This is going to put a huge dent in their finances. 520 dollars for 2 drivers a year might not seem like a lot, but when you need to get car inspected, winter tires, and wnter oil change it usually comes out to about that much per car... as in 1040, adding 520 onto that just isn't fair. There are no real viable options either, and if they do re-build the bridge, hah... hah aha.... yea uhm where's all the traffic going to go for 2 years? Don't say route 1 because that's not an option during rush hour as it is. That bridge (route 1) is also toll out of NJ.

 

- A

[lilbluefoxie]

Will the Former I-95, showing up on the map as I-195 be tolled or just the PA Turnpike Extension which is now gunna be I-95

[metsfan]

Will the Former I-95, showing up on the map as I-195 be tolled or just the PA Turnpike Extension which is now gunna be I-95

 

 

The toll plaza for the new bristol interchange will only be for people coming off the tpk traveling from the west, or people going to the west onto the tpk, not people getting off immediately after the river going north or south as far as i can tell.

 

The toll plaza for the new bridge where 95 currently crosses the delaware will presumably be built on the approach to the bridge. Where they plan to fit this toll plaza i don't know, there's really not much space.

 

- A

[Tokkemon]

About time! As one of the most traveled Interstates in the country, I always scratched my head when I-95 came to Trenton.

 

What is exactly new here though? It's just the old NJT Extension renumbered. That's an "ZOMG THEY'RE MAKING A TOLL ROAD CEPT ITS ALREADY TOLLED BECAUSE OF THE TURNPIKE WTF" problem?

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[metsfan]

Nah, the new toll will be unrelated, once 95 is re-routed onto the tpk in Bristol, the new toll bridge will carry 195, and all the exits, established since before I was born, will be changed on top of the burden of a toll.

 

"Here 95 a new bridge, nah no grants needed, we'll just add a crippling toll for however long a time. Oh now here go this other route instead 16 miles away... but hey let's keep that toll!

 

- A

[Shortline Bus]

All I know is that driving though that part of Trenton/Central NJ with the I-95/NJ Turnpike 'split' is confusing like hell.:eek:

[67thAve]

Just connect the turnpike and 295 near Woodcrest PATCO. The highways are oly about 300 feet apart.

[metsfan]

Just connect the turnpike and 295 near Woodcrest PATCO. The highways are oly about 300 feet apart.

 

Dude, i know, it's so stupid, the bottleneck isn't even that bridge, it's the interchange layout in the direction of peak travel, you have to merge into trafic that will not move and will not slow down, maybe a sign "slow, heavy merge ahead" & put some cameras up and re-configure the interchange on the PA side from a half cloverleaf into a diamond with traffic lights ith road sensors to detect the # of cars etc.

 

Also, putting trains back into newark penn or even into hoboken from west trenton would take a lot of these cars of the road. This rail line sits between, at the river, the 2 crossings currently looking to build a new bridge. Put a huge parking garage over past the east yard there where the wires end, and instead of closing scudder falls for 2 years to make a massive new 1 or 2 spans, simply build deck pieces nearby, then take 2 months to remove old road deck & connector joints & put in new. Or if the piers are no good, build new bridge next to current one, then divert traffic onto new one when ready.

 

Now with this republican majority in PA i highly HIGHLY doubt any of this would even be considered, even though it's the right way to go & makes the most sense.

 

Sigh.

 

- A

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Shortline Bus]

you're thinking too small, reopening the west Trenton line is not the soultion to the problem because the problem is not about local transportation, but long distance, having one, interstate code compliant highway the length on the east coast. The plan will make local travel eassier in the vacity of the project becuase you will not have lost non-locals cloging up the side streets.

 

why do you care anyway, you said it yourself, you don't own a car.

 

I could be wrong but sometimes Metsfan seems to sound like he so 'anti-car' that he wants all of us to go back to 1895 when cars did not yet exist and use the Railroads. Yes there too many cars on the road but there needs to a compromise as well.

 

Sorry but i do use mass transit when i can, there are time i do need to use a car. For regional travel i.e Boston-DC and you don't have much to carry then Metsfan is right.

 

Sorry I don't agree on using horses again to travel at most 20 miles a day.

 

Back to topic. I again don't know that area (Trenton and I-95/I-195/295 split from the Turnpike)well enough to comment on this issue.

[metsfan]

Uhm, my entire life all i've seen is road widening and over-development in this area, and the traffic has gotten worse, and worse, and worse, and you know how many people are usually in those hundreds of cars? ONE!

 

Anyone with a brain cell in southeastern pa takes the train longer distances, even people who have no problem driving to california and back take the train even to new brunswick from my area. I've been stuck in traffic an hour on both rt 1 and i-95, board a train, i'm going faster than the leadfoots in the 100,000 dollar mercedes. I meet and talk with people who come from like west chester, friend gives them a ride to the nearest train station & they come to trenton or they ride amtrak etc.

 

Re-activating the west trenton line could easily take a quarter of the people coming from this area off the road. And as for longer distance drivers, um, they never enter PA so who cares, they go right from DE into NJ. The bulk of people going over the bridge in peak hours are local, within 30 miles of either side of the river. I even see tons of employees, ones that work out of manhattanville depot, you realize how long it takes to get from west philly to that depot by car? There are a few who drive it, usually they have a use for the car aside from transporting themselves, but the vast majority are on that train with me every time.

 

It can easily take an hour to get to trenton transit center from my house, it's 15 miles away, 90% of that is highway. Something's wrong with that picture that a wider bridge will not fix, it will simply funnel more traffic onto it vs alternate routes, as what always happens with wider roads.

 

In a country where cars sit 95% of the time unused, there is sure a huge unwarranted priority to have them move the fastest and easiest.

 

- A

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Shortline Bus]

It's a wanted prority because they are the majoirty means of travel in this country. there are 842 cars per 1000 people in America.

 

Transportation networks should be working together for our betterment. Trains, road and air. you're insisitng they compete with each other. I am NOT getting on the train or a bus after a trip to IKEA or Home Depot. I have a choice, and I'm going to use it.

 

If we could get half of the tractor tailers to make a short trip to COFC loader, instead of driving direclty, we could free up so much road space congestion levels would drop atleast 30%.

 

 

I drive, and I've come to enjoy the freedom it brings. But i'm not going to drive into manhattan, and I'm not going to drive to Los Angeles ether. I take the subway into the city, and when I'm heading to west coast, I fly.

 

Thank You. I support 1,000% in re developing and creating regional any and all rail lines in the USA for both transporting goods and for intercity regional travel. I also support builiding cars and other motor vecihles that take little or no gasonline and thus create with almost all or all electric and other alternative fuel sources.

 

What I am against is trying to make force travelers to use the rail for intercontiental service. Even if you created a Asian/European super speed trains, it still will take at least 2 full days to go from NYC-LA or Boston-SF. If you a Business Person would you take a train from DC-LA taking 2 days or flying out there in 5-6 hours?

Plus the Hunderd of Billions, to rebuild and build new tracks to create cross country rail travel.

Metsfan, always compares our nation to Europe and Asia in high speed rail. None of Europe's and Asia's countries(except for China) is no more bigger than the size of Texas or California. Not to mention all of the countries developing HSR are in the same time zone.:eek:

 

That is much a more realstic to go.:tup:

[metsfan]

PHL, NWK, ATC, and several other east coast airports are at capacity right now, in fact the port authority is thinking of adding a runway at newark, or perhaps 2, one shorter angled one for smaller aircraft and one paralleling the 2 main runways for other aircraft. Flying is an absolute luxury, if you just need to get there a bus or a train is far more economical.

 

The problem with what you're saying, is that it's not ok to let a perfectly good former rail trunk line sit unused. Adding a second track and sidings would take about 900-1200 cars off the road automatically, since parking is full up at princeton, and trenton & hamilton are slowly reaching capacity as well. The line could serve trenton mercer airport as well, and building a large parking structure to the east of the west trenton station building would not only free up spots at those other locations, but it would also move additional cars off of 95 and tpk and rt 1.

 

How are you forcing someone if it's the preferred way to go? You can read, relax, work, sleep, watch a movie etc etc on train, that time spent driving is a wasted resource, which is why so many people do ride the train.

 

You 2 just don't understand the dynamics of this area. Given the option people would absolutely take the train, and if you had local bus loops that took new riders from the smaller historically preserved train stations along that line you wouldnt need more parking than just at bound brook and west trenton.

 

The line was let go due to plummeting patronage, but today people would flock to it in droves, you might even need multilevels to satisfy demand.

 

People could board in yardley also, switch trains across the river. Make a bus connection 24 hours a day between west trenton and TTC so people could even take the river line...

 

I just wish you could see the plan the way i see it. And i'm not talking about ikea, there are no ikeas around here aside from one down near the river in philly. I'm talking commuting.

 

- A

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Grand Concourse]

It's a wanted prority because they are the majoirty means of travel in this country. there are 842 cars per 1000 people in America.

 

Transportation networks should be working together for our betterment. Trains, road and air. you're insisitng they compete with each other. I am NOT getting on the train or a bus after a trip to IKEA or Home Depot. I have a choice, and I'm going to use it.

 

If we could get half of the tractor tailers to make a short trip to COFC loader, instead of driving direclty, we could free up so much road space congestion levels would drop atleast 30%.

 

 

I drive, and I've come to enjoy the freedom it brings. But i'm not going to drive into manhattan, and I'm not going to drive to Los Angeles ether. I take the subway into the city, and when I'm heading to west coast, I fly.

A-friggin-men! Totally agreed about the tractor trailers. They should be the ones that uses the rails with trucks making deliveries to areas that don't have rail access.

[R32 3348]

When considering transportation improvements you have to consider road improvements as well as mass transit improvements. This I-95 plan would connect and simplify the entire area around Trenton, and make I-95 a through-route. If they do it right (I don't know the specifics) then I don't see any reason to oppose this. Rail access is kind of a separate issue here but should be considered if it will take a significant number of cars off the road.

[Tokkemon]

Things get real complicated when you have the meshing of two suburban zones of two majors cities. Unfortunately, Trenton is caught directly in the middle.

 

Rail is only preferred from Hoboken and *maybe* Newark on into Manhattan. After that, the car clearly wins in terms of economics and speed. I take the BoltBus to NY when coming from Philly. Why? Because it's cheaper *and* faster than the train, a combination that can't be beat.

[metsfan]

Train only from hoboken or newark? I'm sorry but i don't see what you're talking about.

 

The west trenton line, which runs from wayne junction in PA to bound brook in NJ was a 2 track trunk line for the reading railroad, at bound brook, reading trains crossed onto CNJ trackage, they then ran to communipaw and later newark penn.

 

The line crosses from PA to NJ on this bridge:

 

 

Yes virginia, those are wires, that could at some point also be extended from west trenton to the short stretch of wires on the :rvl: where it branches off from the NEC. I am not sure if the wires are tall enough for double stacks and i don't remember if i ever saw double stacks up on the bridge, i'm sure there's a photo somewhere.

 

Yes, the line would negate the need for a wider scudder falls bridge, as would reworking the interchange on the PA side from a half clover to a diamond. Saving a few hundred million and removing the need for a toll.

 

The current span:

 

Note the piers are in perfect condition? They just worked on them on and off for 3 years....

 

Sure the bristol interchange is important, but you're talking about putting a shoe on before the sock. The current scudder falls bridge only needs a new road deck, otherwise it's fine, no need for a second span or a 100% new bridge. Even if it did, you could build the new piers next to the current ones then take out the road deck and put new one on and remove old piers, would STILL cost less than what they want to do. and not have the vital route be out of action as long.

 

Use that saved $ to re-activate the west trenton line, and you have your 1-2-3 punch, less traffic, better air quality, and 95 routed onto tpk.

 

Do you see what i'm saying now? They want to spend nearly half a billion dollars for ONE BRIDGE then remove half the traffic from it that was rationale for such a huge span in the first place.......

 

- A

[Tokkemon]

You *do* realize that these lines were built in the days when cars *weren't* the dominant transit mode right? The Interstate system solved (for America) what the RR system couldn't, a comprehensive interstate travel method that was accessible by everyone. In Europe, this happened to be the train (mostly), but in America, it was the car.

 

As much as I (or anyone) hates cars, we have to deal with them. Ever since the 1950s, cars will always get money before trains, that's just the way it is.

[metsfan]

I just reviewed the general final plan.

 

They want to tear down the old bridge entirely, build 2 new spans, widen the roads on both sides, including a new massive wide approach on taylorsville, put 2x roundabouts on the NJ side, and make the bridge NINE LANES plus 4 shoulders (2 for each span) add noise walls that block the scenic view from the highway, while also making it impossible to see how traffic is and if you might want to pick an alternate route. Instead of eliminating one of the on-ramps, they keep both and eliminate an offramp... which means the root problem will not be fixed.... I just.... what the hell are these idiots thinking?

 

Take a peek:

 

http://scudderfallsbridge.com/preferred.htm

 

Keep in mind that once the bristol interchange and 2nd tpk bridge is complete, this 420 million dollar bridge will see roughly half the traffic that it does now, even with the increase in population.

 

Am i the only one seeing money wasted here or what...... :mad::confused:

 

Talk about wasteful spending......... They wanna cancel ARC, and build this monstrosity. *slaps forehead & runs hand down face*

 

 

 

- A

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters