S79 Question

[BJC]

Yeah, I'm aware that parts of Cary Avenue is nice because it's quite nice as you start to go up hill there in parts of West Brighton, but of course there are still those "pockets" you have to watch out for, but as far as diversity goes Staten Island has always been diverse, especially the North Shore.

 

The only difference now is that more foreigners are moving in. Just a few years back you would never hear Russian on the X1 and now I see more and more Russians on the X1 since they are moving in droves to Great Kills in particular on the South Shore. Should be interesting though... Some of the old timers down there certainly aren't thrilled.

 

Where I'm at it's mainly Irish and Italian, but on Forest Ave you can see some Asians here and there, Hispanics and even a few blacks here and there.

 

You're right about the X 1...I rode it couple weeks ago and I notices good amount of European people were riding on that run alone....I don't know they were Russian or not,however I was amaze by that and I was the only black or minority person on that bus too!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You're right about the X 1...I rode it couple weeks ago and I notices good amount of European people were riding on that run alone....I don't know they were Russian or not,however I was amaze by that and I was the only black or minority person on that bus too!

 

Well the X1 is generally going to be white because the South Shore is overwhelmingly white. Even the North Shore is over 60% white. You may see one black every now and then in the city but they usually get off at Fingerboard Road or by Hylan and Clove if they go that far down. The X10 carries more blacks and other minorities to a degree because it goes to Port Richmond, which is more urban in that it offers more apartments and such than most neighborhoods on Staten Island, which is mainly houses. However, with the economy and the cost of the express bus increasing, I've noticed generally more whites on that as well. Today I took the X30 in and there were maybe 2 blacks on the bus, which used to carry a good mix of folks. The rest were white and it's been that way for some months now.

 

In addition to the Russians, the Albanians and Poles have also been moving in too in certain parts of the Island, but not tons. The Russians out of all of the groups are making more a foot print here on Staten Island, particularly in Great Kills.

[checkmatechamp13]

Well the X1 is generally going to be white because the South Shore is overwhelmingly white. Even the North Shore is over 60% white. You may see one black every now and then in the city but they usually get off at Fingerboard Road or by Hylan and Clove if they go that far down. The X10 carries more blacks and other minorities to a degree because it goes to Port Richmond, which is more urban in that it offers more apartments and such than most neighborhoods on Staten Island, which is mainly houses. However, with the economy and the cost of the express bus increasing, I've noticed generally more whites on that as well. Today I took the X30 in and there were maybe 2 blacks on the bus, which used to carry a good mix of folks. The rest were white and it's been that way for some months now.

 

In addition to the Russians, the Albanians and Poles have also been moving in too in certain parts of the Island, but not tons. The Russians out of all of the groups are making more a foot print here on Staten Island, particularly in Great Kills.

 

Actually, I wouldn't say that the minorities are coming from Port Richmond. The vast majority of the people there are using the local buses.

 

I would say that most of the minorities are coming from:

a) the area around Richmond Avenue

The area along South Gannon Avenue between Bradley Avenue and Manor Road

 

But I thought the X30 would've been the most mixed of the express buses. It is the only express bus for much of the North Shore, and the commute from the western end of the route (Graniteville/Mariners' Harbor) to Midtown takes twice as long using local buses. Not to mention that I consider that area to be one of the wealthier areas in terms of areas that are predominantly minority.

 

I have the stats if you want them. B)

[BJC]

Well the X1 is generally going to be white because the South Shore is overwhelmingly white. Even the North Shore is over 60% white. You may see one black every now and then in the city but they usually get off at Fingerboard Road or by Hylan and Clove if they go that far down. The X10 carries more blacks and other minorities to a degree because it goes to Port Richmond, which is more urban in that it offers more apartments and such than most neighborhoods on Staten Island, which is mainly houses. However, with the economy and the cost of the express bus increasing, I've noticed generally more whites on that as well. Today I took the X30 in and there were maybe 2 blacks on the bus, which used to carry a good mix of folks. The rest were white and it's been that way for some months now.

 

In addition to the Russians, the Albanians and Poles have also been moving in too in certain parts of the Island, but not tons. The Russians out of all of the groups are making more a foot print here on Staten Island, particularly in Great Kills.

 

I agree....when I ride the S 79 along Hylan,the route see all kinds of walk of life's,so I figure the X 1 might be a little diversify.I don't expect the same % of them riding the S79 going to ride X 1 however.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Actually, I wouldn't say that the minorities are coming from Port Richmond. The vast majority of the people there are using the local buses.

 

I would say that most of the minorities are coming from:

a) the area around Richmond Avenue

The area along South Gannon Avenue between Bradley Avenue and Manor Road

 

But I thought the X30 would've been the most mixed of the express buses. It is the only express bus for much of the North Shore, and the commute from the western end of the route (Graniteville/Mariners' Harbor) to Midtown takes twice as long using local buses. Not to mention that I consider that area to be one of the wealthier areas in terms of areas that are predominantly minority.

 

I have the stats if you want them. B)

 

Answers in bold:

 

a) That's correct. A few times I have taken the X10 over to the S48 and I have noticed that a high percentage of blacks/minorities get off there.

 

B) I don't see any blacks getting off at Bradley Ave though. Usually all whites there as that's going towards Bulls Head. At Manor Rd I do see some blacks getting off. Many of them are nurses that must work in some sort of hospital or nursing home that is nearby during the late night hours. Occasionally a few project folks may get off over there too, but that's rare. I don't think they can afford the express bus that often. They also get off occasionally at Targee St. There must be some sort of apt. complex or something heading North.

 

c) Regarding the X30, back in 2007 I hated riding it. It was nice until it reached Richmond Avenue and then all hell would break loose. These loud obnoxious ghetto types would get on yacking incessantly either to each other or on their cell phones at like 08:30 in the morning. Of course in '07 everyone thought they had money so that explains that. With the recession in place and the express bus going up these people no longer board the X30. The buses are no longer packed or at SRO levels AND more importantly, it is QUIET even after we go through Graniteville and Mariners' Harbor, but it still gets decent ridership, so they can't really slash anything, hence why the schedule has stayed the same for over a year.

 

As I said, there are still some minorities boarding, but very few in comparison to before and they're the professional types for the most part so they're quiet. There are far more whites boarding in Graniteville and Mariners' Harbor which I found quite surprising. A few weeks back I took a very early X30 at around 06:45 or so in the morning and it was all white. I was like wow now this is interesting, esp. when I recall how many blacks used to ride the X30.

 

Where I get on at around Clove Rd or further up on Bement and Forest it's usually just about all white. I've also noticed more folks riding coming from the Randall Manor/Silver Lake area.

 

 

As far as where the minorities/blacks get off at... Usually at the first four stops:

 

-Forest and South

-Forest and Amity Place

-Forest and Maple Pkwy

-Forest and Richmond Ave

 

 

Yes, I would be interested in your stats... BTW are there any housing projects over there near Richmond Avenue and Forest aside from the ones over by South Avenue? The reason I ask this is because generally on Staten Island, the minorities live in more urban parts where there are more apts. and the like.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I agree....when I ride the S 79 along Hylan,the route see all kinds of walk of life's,so I figure the X 1 might be a little diversify.I don't expect the same % of them riding the S79 going to ride X 1 however.

 

That's because #1 many of those folks are going to the SI Mall and they're not exactly loaded enough to be taking the express bus there or they don't know about the express bus, but I wouldn't side with the latter. You'll notice a lot of teenagers and such on the S79 from time to time. Unless they're working or mommy and daddy wants to shelter them they'll be riding the S79 and not the X1. I see it plenty of times where parents will drive their teenage daughter or son to the express bus and see them off because they feel that the express bus is safer since it's more pricier to ride. They expect less riff raff in addition to it being a one seat ride to the city.

 

#2 there are housing projects (the South Beach houses) nearby which I just recently discovered a few weeks ago on Google map and those people would more than likely be taking the S79 since the express bus is basically double the amount of the local bus.

 

 

Overall folks riding the local buses on Staten Island esp. regardless of race or ethnicity tend to be poorer. You'll have the occasional type like me who will ride the local bus to the express bus when I'm in the mood just because I don't feel like shelling out $20.00 to take car service to and from the express bus when heading to the city, but overall you see the sort of class divide made by the express bus. Granted of course middle class folks will ride the local buses during the rush hour if they want to save cash on the express bus, but outside of that they'll usually use their car. On Staten Island there is a stigma to a degree about riding the local bus in addition to the fact they are slow.

 

So it basically comes down to economics and demographics. B) Hylan Blvd is a major street, so while you may see folks "passing through" they don't necessarily live there. It's the same thing on Forest Ave.

[checkmatechamp13]

Answers in bold:

 

a) That's correct. A few times I have taken the X10 over to the S48 and I have noticed that a high percentage of blacks/minorities get off there.

 

I don't see any blacks getting off at Bradley Ave though. Usually all whites there as that's going towards Bulls Head. At Manor Rd I do see some blacks getting off. Many of them are nurses that must work in some sort of hospital or nursing home that is nearby during the late night hours. Occasionally a few project folks may get off over there too, but that's rare. I don't think they can afford the express bus that often. They also get off occasionally at Targee St. There must be some sort of apt. complex or something heading North.

 

c) Regarding the X30, back in 2007 I hated riding it. It was nice until it reached Richmond Avenue and then all hell would break loose. These loud obnoxious ghetto types would get on yacking incessantly either to each other or on their cell phones at like 08:30 in the morning. Of course in '07 everyone thought they had money so that explains that. With the recession in place and the express bus going up these people no longer board the X30. The buses are no longer packed or at SRO levels AND more importantly, it is QUIET even after we go through Graniteville and Mariners' Harbor, but it still gets decent ridership, so they can't really slash anything, hence why the schedule has stayed the same for over a year.

 

As I said, there are still some minorities boarding, but very few in comparison to before and they're the professional types for the most part so they're quiet. There are far more whites boarding in Graniteville and Mariners' Harbor which I found quite surprising. A few weeks back I took a very early X30 at around 06:45 or so in the morning and it was all white. I was like wow now this is interesting, esp. when I recall how many blacks used to ride the X30.

 

Where I get on at around Clove Rd or further up on Bement and Forest it's usually just about all white. I've also noticed more folks riding coming from the Randall Manor/Silver Lake area.

 

 

As far as where the minorities/blacks get off at... Usually at the first four stops:

 

-Forest and South

-Forest and Amity Place

-Forest and Maple Pkwy

-Forest and Richmond Ave

 

 

Yes, I would be interested in your stats... BTW are there any housing projects over there near Richmond Avenue and Forest aside from the ones over by South Avenue? The reason I ask this is because generally on Staten Island, the minorities live in more urban parts where there are more apts. and the like.

 

Targee Street is where Park Hill is. It is a very large apartment complex (and the census tract that includes it has the third highest percentage of African Americans on SI, at 54%, behind only parts of West Brighton and Mariners' Harbor)

 

By minorities, I meant non-white people, which includes Hispanics and Asians. You are correct that most people getting off in those areas (near South Gannon Avenue) are white, but there are some minorities getting off over there.

 

There are no apartment buildings anywhere near Forest/Richmond, only townhouses (and there are some parts of New Brighton and Mariners' Harbor that have minorities living in more spread out houses).

 

As far as where I got my stats from, I use city-data. Staten Island information is over here: http://www.city-data.com/neighborhood/Staten-Island-Staten-Island-NY.html

 

Another (less reliable) source is a NY Times map over here: http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/explorer?ref=us (It tends to underestimate the white population in many parts of SI, both on the North and South Shore)

 

Of course, these are backed up by my own casual observations.

[LRG]

WTF, I didn;t know there were the South Beach housing projects....

 

I just searched up on them...they're like a block away from Hylan and Steuben, on Lamport Boulevard....

 

Then again if one takes the S52 they'd pass by them.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Targee Street is where Park Hill is. It is a very large apartment complex (and the census tract that includes it has the third highest percentage of African Americans on SI, at 54%, behind only parts of West Brighton and Mariners' Harbor)

 

By minorities, I meant non-white people, which includes Hispanics and Asians. You are correct that most people getting off in those areas (near South Gannon Avenue) are white, but there are some minorities getting off over there.

 

There are no apartment buildings anywhere near Forest/Richmond, only townhouses (and there are some parts of New Brighton and Mariners' Harbor that have minorities living in more spread out houses).

 

As far as where I got my stats from, I use city-data. Staten Island information is over here: http://www.city-data.com/neighborhood/Staten-Island-Staten-Island-NY.html

 

Another (less reliable) source is a NY Times map over here: http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/explorer?ref=us (It tends to underestimate the white population in many parts of SI, both on the North and South Shore)

 

Of course, these are backed up by my own casual observations.

 

 

 

My responses are in red...

 

Yeah, the parts of West Brighton they're referring to are just about all well below Forest Avenue, mainly the West Brighton housing projects, which are further down on Broadway, while some are house owners. The divider for the seedy parts of West Brighton IMO is somewhere past Delafield Avenue in some parts of West Brighton by Broadway. Around Forest Avenue heading towards Randall Manor you have some very nice affluent parts of West Brighton (just about all home owners with some condos thrown in). Aside from the anemic express bus service, West Brighton is a great place to live, as long you know the parts to avoid. On the nice spring days I'll take the X14 and get off on Martling by Clove Lakes Park and walk by the pond home... Very relaxing stroll.

 

Regarding Park Hill... Wow, I didn't know that... I mean I knew just by observing that something was up going that way, but I didn't realize Park Hill was that close to the X10. It certainly explains a lot because when those guys get on the few times that they do their whole dress and persona lets you know that they're not regulars. My New Yorker instincts always kick in...

 

 

Oh, in that case then that's certainly correct. "A lot" of (even though their population isn't huge on Staten Island) Asians get off at Slosson where I normally get off at for car service and also further up at Manor and a few other stops.

 

 

Yeah, I'd tend to agree, but not by a huge margin in most cases. For example, the main reason the numbers look smaller for whites in West Brighton is because of the West Brighton projects. All by Forest Avenue and above it is heavily Irish and Italian.

[checkmatechamp13]

My responses are in red...

 

Yeah, the parts of West Brighton they're referring to are just about all well below Forest Avenue, mainly the West Brighton housing projects, which are further down on Broadway, while some are house owners. The divider for the seedy parts of West Brighton IMO is somewhere past Delafield Avenue in some parts of West Brighton by Broadway. Around Forest Avenue heading towards Randall Manor you have some very nice affluent parts of West Brighton (just about all home owners with some condos thrown in). Aside from the anemic express bus service, West Brighton is a great place to live, as long you know the parts to avoid. On the nice spring days I'll take the X14 and get off on Martling by Clove Lakes Park and walk by the pond home... Very relaxing stroll.

 

Regarding Park Hill... Wow, I didn't know that... I mean I knew just by observing that something was up going that way, but I didn't realize Park Hill was that close to the X10. It certainly explains a lot because when those guys get on the few times that they do their whole dress and persona lets you know that they're not regulars. My New Yorker instincts always kick in...

 

 

Oh, in that case then that's certainly correct. "A lot" of (even though their population isn't huge on Staten Island) Asians get off at Slosson where I normally get off at for car service and also further up at Manor and a few other stops.

 

 

Yeah, I'd tend to agree, but not by a huge margin in most cases. For example, the main reason the numbers look smaller for whites in West Brighton is because of the West Brighton projects. All by Forest Avenue and above it is heavily Irish and Italian.

I knew that. In fact, the only part of West Brighton that has over 50% African Americans is the West Brighton Houses.

Each census tract is supposed to have similar characteristics throughout. So I wasn’t referring to West Brighton as a whole-just the West Brighton Houses.

When they draw out these tracts, they group them according to things such as income, race, population density, etc. So they don’t group West Brighton around Broadway/Clove Road with the West Brighton Houses. For example, the West Brighton Houses have their own census tract because they are very dense (apartment buildings), with people making around the same amount of money ($14,000), and with a similar racial composition in most of the buildings. Another part of West Brighton has its own census tract because it is less dense (houses), the people make a similar amount of money ($85,000), and the racial composition is fairly consistant (around 90% white on every block)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I knew that. In fact, the only part of West Brighton that has over 50% African Americans is the West Brighton Houses.

Each census tract is supposed to have similar characteristics throughout. So I wasn’t referring to West Brighton as a whole-just the West Brighton Houses.

When they draw out these tracts, they group them according to things such as income, race, population density, etc. So they don’t group West Brighton around Broadway/Clove Road with the West Brighton Houses. For example, the West Brighton Houses have their own census tract because they are very dense (apartment buildings), with people making around the same amount of money ($14,000), and with a similar racial composition in most of the buildings. Another part of West Brighton has its own census tract because it is less dense (houses), the people make a similar amount of money ($85,000), and the racial composition is fairly consistant (around 90% white on every block)

 

That's pretty accurate for sure, which also proves my point that if the MTA provided reliable service on the X16 going down Forest it would've been used because people can afford it.

[checkmatechamp13]

I wonder if there was a way I could get stats from say, 5 years ago when the X16 was more reliable. I could see if it was more cost-efficient than it was back when it was eliminated.

[checkmatechamp13]

Deleted post.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I wonder if there was a way I could get stats from say, 5 years ago when the X16 was more reliable. I could see if it was more cost-efficient than it was back when it was eliminated.

 

Let me know if you do... By the way, do you know when exactly the X16 actually started?

[checkmatechamp13]

Those stats I gave you have the ridership trend for the past 5 years, but not the cost-efficiency trends.

 

I sent an email to the MTA asking fror information about the X16 (when it started and cost-efficiency/farebox recovery ratio trends), so hopefully they'll respond.

[checkmatechamp13]

The SI Advance article says that the X16 got 480 riders per day back in 2007, and according to my calculations, that is roughly the ridership it had 5 years ago. I guess at the time the article was written, that is when service started becoming more shoddy.

 

And I'm surprised at the trends for some of the services in the South Shore. Since it is a rapidly growing area, I would expect ridership to increase on those routes. My first instinct would be to say that, since the economy declined from 5 years ago, people are switching to the local buses and SIR, yet the ridership for those has remained fairly stable.

 

The only routes to see a 5 year increase in weekday ridership were the:

X30: 11.4%

X19: 7.3%

X22: 20.5%

X12/X42: 5.8%

X17: 10.6%

 

Maybe they shifted to these routes.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The SI Advance article says that the X16 got 480 riders per day back in 2007, and according to my calculations, that is roughly the ridership it had 5 years ago. I guess at the time the article was written, that is when service started becoming more shoddy.

 

And I'm surprised at the trends for some of the services in the South Shore. Since it is a rapidly growing area, I would expect ridership to increase on those routes. My first instinct would be to say that, since the economy declined from 5 years ago, people are switching to the local buses and SIR, yet the ridership for those has remained fairly stable.

 

The only routes to see a 5 year increase in weekday ridership were the:

X30: 11.4%

X19: 7.3%

X22: 20.5%

X12/X42: 5.8%

X17: 10.6%

 

Maybe they shifted to these routes.

 

Staten Island was hit by this whole economic recession, but not as bad as most would've predicted. The MTA also was shocked to see that express bus ridership has remained fairly stable on the island and in some cases has increased to force them to have to add more runs. X16 riders have certainly moved to over routes such as the X12, X14 and X30. I know this for a fact because I know some of the faces and see them on some of these lines. X14 and X30 riders also tend to switch up if they live in the West Brighton area especially since the commute can be almost the same time wise. I find the X30 to be quicker in the morning and emptier than the X14, so I try to go via NJ in the AM, and try to get the X14 at night since it's emptier and can be faster than the X30 at times, although now with the stops Downtown, it can be about the same.

 

X30 riders have also complained about unreliable service though and it would be interesting to see if ridership would be even higher if that wasn't such a problem. The last bus in the AM and PM are usually good, but the two the last few buses prior to those can be either MIA or really late. In my case I never get too crazed since I can run over to the X14 or in the worse case run up to the X12, which can also be quite unreliable, but I know I'll get an X12 eventually since they run later than both the X14 and X30. X30 riders in Mariners' Harbor take the X12 after 18:30. I've seen a few X30 regulars riding the X12 at night. It's actually a very quick run when you can get one. Takes about 40 minutes from Midtown (roughly 45th and 5th Ave to Slosson and Victory). Some also elect to take the X17J when possible, which I've done a few times and taken car service from there. :cool:

 

As for South Shore express bus riders, what I notice about them is that they are less likely to use the subway. I notice that they stay on the express bus even if there is traffic, which is one reason why ridership remains high. I get the feeling that they really don't want to be bothered with the subway given their long commute and also just the whole stigma of using the subway. Quite frankly unless I'm in a real rush I usually do the same thing as I'm not wild about using the subway either. Some of them act as if they don't come to the city very often though, so of course it is easier to just stay on the express bus in those cases so long as the bus is stopping near where they're going.

[checkmatechamp13]

Like I said, the ridership on lines on the East Shore (the Hylan Blvd lines and X15) has taken a big hit. There are a couple of things that baffle me though:

 

Where have those riders gone?

The S79 has seen a 17.8% increase in ridership, but even if all of those riders were former express bus riders (which I doubt), that still leaves a good chunk of riders unaccounted for.

I could picture some of those riders going to the X17, but, again, there is still a big ridership loss that is unaccounted for.

 

Why did they go?

Unlike a route like the X16 or X18, which runs infrequently (so reliability is very important), each one of those routes (except for maybe the X3 and X4) came very frequently on its own. When you consider that many riders have 2 routes to get to their destination, the frequency increases even more. I can't picture them shifting to any other route-Hylan Blvd is pretty much the most frequent express bus corridor in the city.

 

But in the areas where the ridership has remained fairly stable, I attibute it to the fact that, unlike other areas of the city, there is no other easy option (the exact reason why I can't see where the East Shore riders went). Like I said before, a trip from Mariners' Harbor to Midtown easily takes twice as long via the S48/S98->ferry->subway as opposed to taking the X30.

 

And with the X30, I can picture riders using the X12 and X14, but the X17J stops nowhere near Forest Avenue (so if they're driving there, they would have to commit to the X17J, since they don't stop near each other. If they do what you do, and take car service, then yes, they have that option). The only way a rider living near the X30 can take the X17J is if they live near Richmond Avenue, as they can take the S44, S59 or S89 over there.

 

As far as express bus riders refusing to transfer to the subway, I admit that, whenever I am on an express bus, I usually don't transfer to the subway. You have to consider that, even though the express bus runs on local streets, it is still faster than the local bus because it is drop-off only (and has fewer people on the bus)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Like I said, the ridership on lines on the East Shore (the Hylan Blvd lines and X15) has taken a big hit. There are a couple of things that baffle me though:

 

Where have those riders gone?

The S79 has seen a 17.8% increase in ridership, but even if all of those riders were former express bus riders (which I doubt), that still leaves a good chunk of riders unaccounted for.

I could picture some of those riders going to the X17, but, again, there is still a big ridership loss that is unaccounted for.

 

Why did they go?

Unlike a route like the X16 or X18, which runs infrequently (so reliability is very important), each one of those routes (except for maybe the X3 and X4) came very frequently on its own. When you consider that many riders have 2 routes to get to their destination, the frequency increases even more. I can't picture them shifting to any other route-Hylan Blvd is pretty much the most frequent express bus corridor in the city.

 

But in the areas where the ridership has remained fairly stable, I attibute it to the fact that, unlike other areas of the city, there is no other easy option (the exact reason why I can't see where the East Shore riders went). Like I said before, a trip from Mariners' Harbor to Midtown easily takes twice as long via the S48/S98->ferry->subway as opposed to taking the X30.

 

And with the X30, I can picture riders using the X12 and X14, but the X17J stops nowhere near Forest Avenue (so if they're driving there, they would have to commit to the X17J, since they don't stop near each other. If they do what you do, and take car service, then yes, they have that option). The only way a rider living near the X30 can take the X17J is if they live near Richmond Avenue, as they can take the S44, S59 or S89 over there.

 

As far as express bus riders refusing to transfer to the subway, I admit that, whenever I am on an express bus, I usually don't transfer to the subway. You have to consider that, even though the express bus runs on local streets, it is still faster than the local bus because it is drop-off only (and has fewer people on the bus)

 

A lot of Staten Islanders have folks pick them up at the bus stop, so theoretically someone could take the X17 and have someone wait for them... It happens a lot at Fingerboard Rd, South Ave & Forest, and Slosson and Reon to name a few.

 

Truth be told the X15 is a really annoying bus. ALWAYS early and it seems like they would come just as an X16 or X13 was there, meaning they would be shielded from picking up a lot of folks. When you consider that they run early (up to 10 minutes early during the AM rush), the frequency at which they come and the other options available for folks, its easy to see how ridership dipped. When I would leave say around 09:00 in the morning and I had missed the last X16, I personally used to try to wait at Targee St, right there on the service road to catch an X15 and had terrible luck. You miss one and you could be waiting there for 20 - 30 minutes, so after a while of that nonsense, I thought, why bother waiting here for 20 minutes when I can go right to Hylan Blvd and wait for an X1 which runs every 5 minutes? Often times the X15 would take so long that I'd be forced to take the first X10 that serviced the service road, which was packed. :mad:

 

Now instead of dealing with that I can wait at Hylan for an X1, have a seat to myself and a nice quick ride in if I time things so that I get a rather empty X1 around 09:26 or so, or even better wait for an X2 and be nice and comfy.

I'm sure that's what other folks are doing. Like I said before, many X1s can be SRO from about 09:00 or so until 09:20 because the MTA has a big lull in service on other lines. For some reason they don't seem to realize that many Staten Islanders like myself don't start work until 10:00 in the morning and the we need express bus service past 08:40 or so. It seems like they got the message though which would explain why they added another x2 from New Dorp at 09:00. :cool: It has taken a big load off the X1 and from the day they put it in, it filled up almost immediately.

 

Oh yeah, and I can also confirm that the X15 lost riders in the AM to the X14 due its lack of frequency.

[checkmatechamp13]

But the point that I'm trying to make is that the ridership along the East Shore has dropped drastically. I could possibly understand somebody going to Hylan Blvd rather than wait for an X15 on Richmond Road, but I can't see why anybody along Hylan Blvd would go anywhere else for the express bus.

 

Even if the buses were very unreliable and they decided to go over to Hylan Blvd/Fingerboard Road to give themselves a better shot at catching an express bus (since the X13, X16 and X20 were running back then), why didn't ridership increase on those lines?

 

By the way, on those days when you came in later, how did you get down to Narrows Road South? Did you take the S53? Also, what made Narrows Road South/Targee Street a better choice than Slosson Avenue?

 

On a side note, the X14 and X15 both lost riders. X14 ridership is (or should I say was, since the data is from 2009) down 9.9% from 5 years prior and X15 ridership is down 18.4% from 5 years prior. If ridership shifted away from the X15, there was still an overall loss of riders.

 

Maybe it was just due to the recession and people losing their jobs. I can't see any other reason for the decline.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But the point that I'm trying to make is that the ridership along the East Shore has dropped drastically. I could possibly understand somebody going to Hylan Blvd rather than wait for an X15 on Richmond Road, but I can't see why anybody along Hylan Blvd would go anywhere else for the express bus.

 

Even if the buses were very unreliable and they decided to go over to Hylan Blvd/Fingerboard Road to give themselves a better shot at catching an express bus (since the X13, X16 and X20 were running back then), why didn't ridership increase on those lines?

 

By the way, on those days when you came in later, how did you get down to Narrows Road South? Did you take the S53? Also, what made Narrows Road South/Targee Street a better choice than Slosson Avenue?

 

The X13 stopped running early and it often had the X16 and other expresses to shield it from riders. The X20 only had about 3 buses in the AM at the end and often times when it came, it had help from the big hitters like the X1 taking all of the riders, so when it did show up, there was no one there to pick up. Poor scheduling by the MTA because had they spaced buses better and had better oversight in general, the X13 and X20 could've been useful.

 

I think they realized what was going on. The had so many X1s that people were just flocking to them because they ran like water. If you had an express show up every 5 minutes compared to other that showed up every 10 - 15 minutes, even if it was a bit more crowded, you would probably elect the one that came every 5 minutes for the obvious reason. You'd have X13, X14 and X16 riders getting off and switching to the X1 at Hylan and Narrows Road South, I assume because it runs on the West Side. Then you had plenty of folks being driven to Fingerboard Rd where they could hop on for one stop and be in the city in 20 minutes AND had a slew of express buses to choose from, with some buses arriving with plenty of seats unless some of the South Shore buses were acting up.

 

Now the X16, that last bus carried well because it came at a time when there was a lull in service in that other lines had already finished for the AM. You also have to remember that the X13 and X16 suffered from reliability issues, and the X13 was worse in that regard than the X16. So the MTA is to blame for routes like the X15 going down in ridership. They should've had a dispatcher there everyday at Fingerboard monitoring how buses were running. They only did that maybe a few times a year and I can count those times on one hand. You just had an abundance of express bus all running at the same time when they did come and some lines so unreliable that folks went to other lines for service. A real mess overall.

 

Regarding the days I came in later, I tried various ways... Sometimes I'd get car service over to Manor and Victory for the X12 or go up to Manor and Schmidts for an X10 or X11 if I knew I wasn't in the mood for walking. If I used the local bus, of course I'd walk over to the S54 or use the S53. Often times if I used the S53 it meant that I had just missed the X16 and waiting for car service would take too long (10 - 20 minutes), so since I noticed an S53 would come right around the time I was supposed to catch the X16, if the X16 came early, I'd sometimes get the S53 and try to catch up to it at Victory and Clove which I was able to do at times or I'd have to wait for the next X15over at Targee.

 

And just to clarify... It wasn't that the service wasn't warranted. It was that the service wasn't spread out properly. Too many buses showing up all at once, so you'd have packed X1s and empty X13s and X20s. I observed this once at a bus stop Downtown... Three X1s running back to back... One crowded one, and two practically empty ones. The MTA just said hey there's a demand for the X1, so let's just put a sh*tload of X1s on the line. They didn't do anything to deal with bunching or anything of the sort, so in the end it looked like the line was still underserved. That's why they slashed the X1 because they realized they couldn't just keep putting out X1s like that. Once at around 21:30 some years back before the cuts, while waiting for an S53 at Hylan, I can recall seeing 6 X1s in about a 10 minute period... Way too much bunching.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But the point that I'm trying to make is that the ridership along the East Shore has dropped drastically. I could possibly understand somebody going to Hylan Blvd rather than wait for an X15 on Richmond Road, but I can't see why anybody along Hylan Blvd would go anywhere else for the express bus.

 

Even if the buses were very unreliable and they decided to go over to Hylan Blvd/Fingerboard Road to give themselves a better shot at catching an express bus (since the X13, X16 and X20 were running back then), why didn't ridership increase on those lines?

 

By the way, on those days when you came in later, how did you get down to Narrows Road South? Did you take the S53? Also, what made Narrows Road South/Targee Street a better choice than Slosson Avenue?

 

On a side note, the X14 and X15 both lost riders. X14 ridership is (or should I say was, since the data is from 2009) down 9.9% from 5 years prior and X15 ridership is down 18.4% from 5 years prior. If ridership shifted away from the X15, there was still an overall loss of riders.

 

Maybe it was just due to the recession and people losing their jobs. I can't see any other reason for the decline.

 

The X14 became a nightmare to take during the AM. In 2007 I switched to a job up on the Upper West Side and started taking the X14. Traffic was so bad that despite me leaving before 07:30 I'd still have to get off at 23rd st and take the train. I mean traffic was TERRIBLE and so as a result folks stopped using it as much and I wound up switching jobs after a month and working in Midtown to help out with the commute. That's how it goes though. When traffic gets unbearable, folks fall back on their alternate routes or they leave earlier. Then you think about the whole Verrazano saga that took place in 2008 and then the economy tanking shortly thereafter and it's easy to see how ridership went down on the X14 and X15 and why there was a dip in usage from the East Shore. That Verrazano construction was a nightmare. Everyday was a battle to see who could sneak into the one little lane allotted to us to get over the bridge and sometimes the B/Os didn't know the quicker routes to get to that one lane and so we'd crawl for a good 30 minutes every day...

 

 

Unlike the X13, the X14 was generally reliable even during the construction, it was just terribly slow. I've also noticed that while the X14 is crowded in the morning naturally because of the loss of the X13 and X16, when I take the X2, I see a lot of old X14 riders. They actually go further south to get good seats on the X2, which still bypasses Downtown unlike the X14...

[S79 Select bus servi]

""" I can recall seeing 6 X1s in about a 10 minute period... Way too much bunching. """-User

 

 

You can see at least 5 S46 buses between 2:30-2:40 at bay and victory. Nothing to do with bunching. 

[Turbo19]

...

With all due respect not much is accomplished by bumping two year old threads. Anyway might as well include an actual reply.

 

 

""" I can recall seeing 6 X1s in about a 10 minute period... Way too much bunching. """-User

From what I've heard to an extent that's still common. Evening especially when the trips are closer together.

 

 

You can see at least 5 S46 buses between 2:30-2:40 at bay and victory. Nothing to do with bunching. 

With the S46 and other North Shore routes it's established many supplemental trips are school trippers or extra rush hour runs from St. George.