SIR North Shore Posted January 5, 2011 Share #26 Posted January 5, 2011 Not by much though...the only reason the S53 is busier than the S79 is because the S79 is a mall route and during middays the mall is virtually empty. On weekends, especially on Saturdays, the S79 is busier than the S53. Back when the MTA was gearing up for the service cuts, there was a list of all the bus routes and their ridership (wkdays, saturday, sunday & nights) and the S79 was less than the S53 in all of them. The s53 has around 13,000 riders on weekends but only 12,000 on weekdays. I'm not saying the S79 isn't busy but a 7-day limited on the S79 and S53 would go a long way to speed commutes up and reduce bunching. Check out this map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted January 5, 2011 Share #27 Posted January 5, 2011 Back when the MTA was gearing up for the service cuts, there was a list of all the bus routes and their ridership (wkdays, saturday, sunday & nights) and the S79 was less than the S53 in all of them. The s53 has around 13,000 riders on weekends but only 11,000 on weekdays. I'm not saying the S79 isn't busy but a limited on the S79 and S53 would go a long way to speed commutes up and reduce bunching. According to this list (http://www.mta.info/nyct/facts/ridership/ridership_bus.htm), the S79 is busier than the S53 on Saturdays: 7,263 S79 riders vs. 7,198 S53 riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted January 5, 2011 Share #28 Posted January 5, 2011 Part of the reason for the S79's lower ridership could be that it competes with the S78 and S59/S89 for local riders (not going to Brooklyn) Hoe come whenever I post the link for the ridership and cost-efficiency of the routes, it ends up getting ignored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share #29 Posted January 5, 2011 Part of the reason for the S79's lower ridership could be that it competes with the S78 and S59/S89 for local riders (not going to Brooklyn) Hoe come whenever I post the link for the ridership and cost-efficiency of the routes, it ends up getting ignored? Sorry, but I don't trust those reports. We both know how good the MTA is with their reports and figures... When I speak of routes, I am usually going off of years of my own personal experience and observations. These reports are just a bunch of numbers anyway. They don't factor in why the numbers are the way they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIR North Shore Posted January 5, 2011 Share #30 Posted January 5, 2011 I've never seen that list before, it was another one showing the early 2010 ridership and the numbers were much higher for the S53 & S79 (and all the rest too.) The one I'm talking about though is represented on that NY Times map though but only weekdays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share #31 Posted January 5, 2011 According to this list (http://www.mta.info/nyct/facts/ridership/ridership_bus.htm), the S79 is busier than the S53 on Saturdays: 7,263 S79 riders vs. 7,198 S53 riders. This always annoyed me too... Why does the S46 get more buses are more limited service than the S48? According to this report, the S48 has more ridership than the S46, yet they get limited service more frequently and longer?? I remember years ago when I used to take the S48 regularly to thef ferry, me and another rider at the terminal commented on how the project folks get better service than us working folks. It is really is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIR North Shore Posted January 5, 2011 Share #32 Posted January 5, 2011 This always annoyed me too... Why does the S46 get more buses are more limited service than the S48? According to this report, the S48 has more ridership than the S46, yet they get limited service more frequently and longer?? I remember years ago when I used to take the S48 regularly to thef ferry, me and another rider at the terminal commented on how the project folks get better service than us working folks. It is really is amazing. I'm guessing it's been awhile since you've ridden the S48 because there's 2 times as much limited service on the S98 than the S96. The S98 begins earlier, runs longer than the S96 and at one point in either rush there's always S98s running back-to-back. What they need to do is put some of those S98s in service towards St. George as S98s instead of deadheading back down Richmond Terrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share #33 Posted January 5, 2011 I'm guessing it's been awhile since you've ridden the S48 because there's 2 times as much limited service on the S98 than the S96. The S98 begins earlier, runs longer than the S96 and at one point in either rush there's always S98s running back-to-back. What they need to do is put some of those S98s in service towards St. George as S98s instead of deadheading back down Richmond Terrace. I started taking the X16 in 2006... I did notice that they added a fewer later ones just because I'd see them coming down Forest as I am walking from the express bus. You're right about turning some of them around. Evening service to the Ferry could use more frequency. I see all of the people on Forest when I take the X30 at night. You could argue for a few limiteds going that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted January 5, 2011 Share #34 Posted January 5, 2011 Sorry, but I don't trust those reports. We both know how good the MTA is with their reports and figures... When I speak of routes, I am usually going off of years of my own personal experience and observations. These reports are just a bunch of numbers anyway. They don't factor in why the numbers are the way they are. 1) When LRG posted the MTA's statistics, you believed him 2) Those numbers make sense to me. They might be off by a little bit, but not by a whole lot. A lot of transit agencies across America charge a similar fare as the MTA and have a lower farebox recovery ratio. Even within routes, the routes that the MTA says have higher ridership often do, indeed have higher ridership. For example, the S40 is generally less crowded than the S46 and S48, just like the MTA says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share #35 Posted January 6, 2011 1) When LRG posted the MTA's statistics, you believed him 2) Those numbers make sense to me. They might be off by a little bit, but not by a whole lot. A lot of transit agencies across America charge a similar fare as the MTA and have a lower farebox recovery ratio. Even within routes, the routes that the MTA says have higher ridership often do, indeed have higher ridership. For example, the S40 is generally less crowded than the S46 and S48, just like the MTA says. Dude I don't care if Jesus Christ himself posted the report. I still wouldn't believe it. I don't trust the MTA with anything, so don't get offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 6, 2011 Share #36 Posted January 6, 2011 The thing that I can't stand about the S79 is how it's less busier than the S53 yet whenever I'm waiting for the S53 at 86th, there's a line stretching down the entire street and only 1 S53 bus to fit everyone yet there's S79s pulling up in 2s and 3s every few minutes or so. lmfao.... that's true though... Part of the reason for the S79's lower ridership could be that it competes with the S78 and S59/S89 for local riders (not going to Brooklyn) How come whenever I post the link for the ridership and cost-efficiency of the routes, it ends up getting ignored? b/c people are noticing that you have this habit of relying waaaay too much on the numbers... especially as of late... it's almost like that textbook teacher that aint know squat about the subject matter he/she was teaching.... I find that people often run to stats when they're either afraid to post their own opinions, or don't have a general one of their own about a subject, at all.... ^^ city data's FULL of people like that... Way I see it, if the numbers correlate to my own formulation of thoughts & opinions of how well (or how poor) a route is doing, then I'll lean towards believing them... otherwise, they are, what they are... ...just numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share #37 Posted January 6, 2011 lmfao.... that's true though... b/c people are noticing that you have this habit of relying waaaay too much on the numbers... especially as of late... it's almost like that textbook teacher that didn't know jack shit about the subject matter he/she was teaching.... I find that people often run to stats when they're either afraid to post their own opinions, or don't have a general one of their own about a subject, at all.... ^^ city data's FULL of people like that... Way I see it, if the numbers correlate to my own formulation of thoughts & opinions of how well (or how poor) a route is doing, then I'll believe them... otherwise, they are, what they are... ...just numbers. He seems like the type that likes to base his arguments on facts and figures... An academic type. I respect that, but sometimes he relies too much on figures and transit shouldn't be all be about numbers and figures. I think part of it could be that he isn't familar with some routes and relies on figures without really knowing the background of some routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 6, 2011 Share #38 Posted January 6, 2011 He seems like the type that likes to base his arguments on facts and figures... An academic type. I respect that, but sometimes he relies too much on figures and transit shouldn't be all be about numbers and figures. I think part of it could be that he isn't familar with some routes and relies on figures without really knowing the background of some routes. My intent isn't to make this a roasting session, b/c CC's a cool dude... but I still have to say, if he would sometimes question the numbers (or don't take them wholesale almost every time), then I would have zero problem... there's nothing wrong with backing up your opinion w/ numbers.... what's missing, is the opinion... what's over-represented, is the number(s)... If this is a math class, then I wouldn't have a leg to stand on.... but as you pointed out, transit shouldn't be about numbers all the time.... hell, let's run w/ this central theme... let me make my point - with numbers (lol)... - we know if you add (250,000) four times, you get a million... - if you add 333,333 three times, then add 1, you still get the same million that requires SOME thought... users have multiple avenues to at least consider, before coming to a conclusion... but if you're telling me nothing plus 1,000,000 equals a million... like, um, did you know if you have a million dollars, and you don't gain or lose/spend any of it, you'll still have a million dollars... ^^ I'm like, gee, no shit... how much thought did that really take... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share #39 Posted January 6, 2011 My intent isn't to make this a roasting session, b/c CC's a cool dude... but I still have to say, if he would sometimes question the numbers (or don't take them wholesale almost every time), then I would have zero problem... there's nothing wrong with backing up your opinion w/ numbers.... what's missing, is the opinion... what's over-represented, is the number(s)... If this is a math class, then I wouldn't have a leg to stand on.... but as you pointed out, transit shouldn't be about numbers all the time.... hell, let's run w/ this central theme... let me make my point - with numbers (lol)... - we know if you add (250,000) four times, you get a million... - if you add 333,333 three times, then add 1, you still get the same million that requires SOME thought... users have multiple avenues to at least consider, before coming to a conclusion... but if you're telling me nothing plus 1,000,000 equals a million... like, um, did you know if you have a million dollars, and you don't gain or lose/spend any of it, you'll still have a million dollars... ^^ I'm like, gee, no shit... how much thought did that really take... Well, I think he does offer his opinion when he can. Problem is I don't think he's been on a lot of lines outside of Staten Island and Brooklyn, though I could be wrong. Hey checkmate, I know you're more of a train dude, but do you do any bus fanning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted January 7, 2011 Share #40 Posted January 7, 2011 The reason that I use the MTA's numbers is because: a) I really have no other numbers to go by I feel that, from my experience on the lines I have ridden (which, as Via Garibaldi said, I really don't ride a lot of lines outside of SI), they seem fairly accurate. For example, from experience, the S48 does get more turnover than the S46, and, according to the MTA, the S48 gets 9,800 weekday riders, vs. 8,600 on the S46 (though I think it is more like 9,000, considering the schools that the S46 serves (people coming through the back door aren't counted, and some drivers on "special" buses don't bother counting people who don't dip a Student MetroCard) The S40 is generally the fastest and least crowded of the three, so I could believe that it gets 5,000 riders if the S46 and S48 get around 9,000-10,000. Routes like the S54 and S57 are nowhere near as crowded as the S46 and S48, so I could believe their ridership numbers are what they are. And the ridership and cost-efficiency numbers that they post are higher than other transit agencies, which makes sense, since they are less transit-oriented. But, I'll try to use experience vs. official statistics when I talk about routes in the future. BTW, I never actually busfan or railfan, but I do try to do what I can in the time that I have, like taking a different route to a destination (ex: Taking the S46 home when the S44 is much more direct) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share #41 Posted January 7, 2011 The reason that I use the MTA's numbers is because: a) I really have no other numbers to go by I feel that, from my experience on the lines I have ridden (which, as Via Garibaldi said, I really don't ride a lot of lines outside of SI), they seem fairly accurate. For example, from experience, the S48 does get more turnover than the S46, and, according to the MTA, the S48 gets 9,800 weekday riders, vs. 8,600 on the S46 (though I think it is more like 9,000, considering the schools that the S46 serves (people coming through the back door aren't counted, and some drivers on "special" buses don't bother counting people who don't dip a Student MetroCard) The S40 is generally the fastest and least crowded of the three, so I could believe that it gets 5,000 riders if the S46 and S48 get around 9,000-10,000. Routes like the S54 and S57 are nowhere near as crowded as the S46 and S48, so I could believe their ridership numbers are what they are. And the ridership and cost-efficiency numbers that they post are higher than other transit agencies, which makes sense, since they are less transit-oriented. But, I'll try to use experience vs. official statistics when I talk about routes in the future. BTW, I never actually busfan or railfan, but I do try to do what I can in the time that I have, like taking a different route to a destination (ex: Taking the S46 home when the S44 is much more direct) I did a ton of it as a kid back in Brooklyn. I think I've rode just about every bus line in Brooklyn, excluding the newer lines. I was moreso into buses growing up than subways since I didn't start going to the city regularly until I was in my teens, so I'm pretty well versed on Brooklyn (local and express), especially Southern Brooklyn. I've rode most of the express buses on the island and some of the local lines. Manhattan I've been all over and have rode most of the local as well as the express (i.e. X25). Never got around to the X90. The Bronx and Queens I haven't been to often and have basically just done a few express bus lines in each borough. And despite my dislike of the subway I believe I've used every line in the system at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJC Posted January 8, 2011 Share #42 Posted January 8, 2011 The thing that I can't stand about the S79 is how it's less busier than the S53 yet whenever I'm waiting for the S53 at 86th, there's a line stretching down the entire street and only 1 S53 bus to fit everyone yet there's S79s pulling up in 2s and 3s every few minutes or so. Other night,S 79 was SRO leaving 86 st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNQtrain3912 Posted January 29, 2011 Share #43 Posted January 29, 2011 That's interesting about the B49. I used to use that on occasion when I was back in high school and it was pretty reliable. They can however run in a pack-like manner even when they're just starting out there by Manhattan Beach. I still see two or three within a 3 or 4 minute span when I am waiting for the BM3 down by Shore Blvd and Emmons. well im mostly talking bout northbound service..it is really slow..it can take 45 mins jus to get to flatbush and foster from sheepsheap bay station smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share #44 Posted January 30, 2011 well im mostly talking bout northbound service..it is really slow..it can take 45 mins jus to get to flatbush and foster from sheepsheap bay station smh I think it used to be better when they had the B49 taking Sheepshead Bay Rd Northbound up to Sheepshead Bay train station, but then they decided to re-route it Northbound and take the old B4 route to the train station and there is a bit more congestion over there by Ave Z. Bad move all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share #45 Posted January 30, 2011 Other night,S 79 was SRO leaving 86 st. The bunching seems to be getting worse of late from my observations... Smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Broadway Local Posted January 30, 2011 Share #46 Posted January 30, 2011 Have you tried the S40/S90 on Richmond Terrace? How is the ride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share #47 Posted January 30, 2011 Have you tried the S40/S90 on Richmond Terrace? How is the ride? The reason being that I'm practically at Forest Avenue, so the S40/90 would be completely out of my way. I once took the S44 years ago when I actually rode the Ferry to the local bus because the S48 wasn't running (it had broken down or something and they obviously weren't sending a replacement bus). I would never take that again. First off I don't really venture past Delafield Avenue because it sort of goes downhill in certain parts of West Brighton (i.e. projects) except for when you're going over by Bard Avenue then you can venture a bit more North over by Cary Avenue. I got such looks when I was on the S44 as I clearly didn't fit in. lol I got off at Cary and Broadway an made my way up by Forest and noted never to come that way again. Very depressed area esp. over by Broadway. Since 2006 I basically take the express bus, which goes as far North as Forest Ave., my regulars being the X14 and X30 and so I have no reason to venture past there. I had jury duty for a day over in St. George and I was excused (thank God) and since I know that some areas over there are not to my taste I just took car service. However, I know that around the courthouse in the immediate area of St. George is fine, so I did venture for breakfast and lunch and found a nice Italian pastry shop, but I haven't been down there since and that was back in 2008 I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIR North Shore Posted January 30, 2011 Share #48 Posted January 30, 2011 The reason being that I'm practically at Forest Avenue, so the S40/90 would be completely out of my way. I once took the S44 years ago when I actually rode the Ferry to the local bus because the S48 wasn't running (it had broken down or something and they obviously weren't sending a replacement bus). I would never take that again. First off I don't really venture past Delafield Avenue because it sort of goes downhill in certain parts of West Brighton (i.e. projects) except for when you're going over by Bard Avenue then you can venture a bit more North over by Cary Avenue. I got such looks when I was on the S44 as I clearly didn't fit in. lol I got off at Cary and Broadway an made my way up by Forest and noted never to come that way again. Very depressed area esp. over by Broadway. Since 2006 I basically take the express bus, which goes as far North as Forest Ave., my regulars being the X14 and X30 and so I have no reason to venture past there. I had jury duty for a day over in St. George and I was excused (thank God) and since I know that some areas over there are not to my taste I just took car service. However, I know that around the courthouse in the immediate area of St. George is fine, so I did venture for breakfast and lunch and found a nice Italian pastry shop, but I haven't been down there since and that was back in 2008 I believe. I live in between the S40 and S44 routes and that area is not as bad as it looks. It's still Staten Island and not the Bronx, brooklyn or SE queens or something. I used to to take the S44 everyday to high school and that route isn't bad at all either. During rush hours, there's the working class headed to/from the ferry and outside of those times you have people traveling to the mall. I stopped riding the S44 though, because it became super-unreliable around 2007-ish and hasn't really changed since. Now the S40 can be quite a trip every now and then but most of the time it's business as usual and it's only an 8 minute ride to the ferry on a good day. You just have to accept that Staten Island is becoming more diverse and go about your business no matter where in Staten Island you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share #49 Posted January 30, 2011 I live in between the S40 and S44 routes and that area is not as bad as it looks. It's still Staten Island and not the Bronx, brooklyn or SE queens or something. I used to to take the S44 everyday to high school and that route isn't bad at all either. During rush hours, there's the working class headed to/from the ferry and outside of those times you have people traveling to the mall. Now the S40 can be quite a trip every now and then but most of the time it's business as usual. You just have to accept that Staten Island is becoming more diverse and go about your business no matter where in Staten Island you are. That's true.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share #50 Posted January 30, 2011 I live in between the S40 and S44 routes and that area is not as bad as it looks. It's still Staten Island and not the Bronx, brooklyn or SE queens or something. I used to to take the S44 everyday to high school and that route isn't bad at all either. During rush hours, there's the working class headed to/from the ferry and outside of those times you have people traveling to the mall. Now the S40 can be quite a trip every now and then but most of the time it's business as usual. You just have to accept that Staten Island is becoming more diverse and go about your business no matter where in Staten Island you are. Yeah, I'm aware that parts of Cary Avenue is nice because it's quite nice as you start to go up hill there in parts of West Brighton, but of course there are still those "pockets" you have to watch out for, but as far as diversity goes Staten Island has always been diverse, especially the North Shore. The only difference now is that more foreigners are moving in. Just a few years back you would never hear Russian on the X1 and now I see more and more Russians on the X1 since they are moving in droves to Great Kills in particular on the South Shore. Should be interesting though... Some of the old timers down there certainly aren't thrilled. Where I'm at it's mainly Irish and Italian, but on Forest Ave you can see some Asians here and there, Hispanics and even a few blacks here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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