TransitStop Posted January 17, 2011 Share #1 Posted January 17, 2011 OC Transpo is phasing out 216 New Flyer D60LF's, now my question is would the MTA be interested in these? Opportunity Product Specifications View more detailed specifications. 216 60 FT/18M diesel articulated buses Vehicles are in a legal driveable condition averaging 310,000 to 370,000 miles (500,000 to 595,000 km) Manufactured between 2001 and 2004 Available to purchase in 'as-is' or in a refurbished condition (pricing to be determined) Availability of buses is negotiable to potential buyers Detailed specifications are available upon request Parts and service manuals included Alternative financing is available upon request Length (over bumpers): 60.7 ft (18.5 m) Width: 8.5 ft (2.57 m) Height: 9.2 ft (2.8 m) Front Step Height / Kneeled: 15.5" / 12.5" (394/318mm) Wheelbase (front): 19.0 ft (5.8 m) Wheelbase (rear): 25.5 ft (7.8 m) Axle Front / Center / Rear: Meritor FH-946 / Meritor RC-26-700 / MAN H07 Turning Radius: 42.5 ft (12.9 m) Pivot Angle: 50° Articulated Joint: Hübner HNGK 6.2 RW Engine: Detroit Diesel Series 50 330 HP - 1150 ft-lb Transmission: Allison B500R Fuel Tank: 119 US Gallons to 147 US Gallons* Electrical System: Allen Bradley PLC HVAC: Thermo King Number of Passenger Doors: 3 (Vapor) Seat Manufacturer / Model: American Seating / 850 Seat Capacity*: 52 to 54 Wheelchair Stations: 2 (seats fold up & lock) now remember the MTA did test out a D60LF in 1999 and i believe 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engineerboy6561 Posted January 17, 2011 Share #2 Posted January 17, 2011 Barring some sort of fleetwide catastrophe that leaves the MTA in dire need of buses, I don't think so. In both cases, the test buses you referenced were rejected and we just took on 90 LFSAs from NovaBus that are doing quite well for themselves thus far. We are also in the process of a multi-company 270-bus procurement that should at least temporarily glut us with buses. By the time that finishes, the MTA will have the option of ordering brand new LFSA buses from NovaBus or transferring routes in need of artics to a CNG depot and getting XC60s (a CNG-powered articulated variant of the Xcelsior from New Flyer). I figure Transpo would be better off trying to sell those to a relatively small agency either just starting up or in need of a quick capacity increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova RTS 9147 Posted January 17, 2011 Share #3 Posted January 17, 2011 OC Transpo is phasing out 216 New Flyer D60LF's, now my question is would the MTA be interested in these? Absolutely not. Asides from the aforementioned test issues that were mentioned, the flat out ended their relationship with New Flyer (for a time) because they didn't want these things. Plus you don't want hand me down buses. Look at the Bee-Line Orion 5s we got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted January 17, 2011 Share #4 Posted January 17, 2011 Test issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted January 17, 2011 Share #5 Posted January 17, 2011 Absolutely not. Asides from the aforementioned test issues that were mentioned, the flat out ended their relationship with New Flyer (for a time) because they didn't want these things. Plus you don't want hand me down buses. Look at the Bee-Line Orion 5s we got. The Bee-Line O5s, however, are 15 years old. But the real reason why I can't see the MTA as interested is because of emissions requirements being different between the province of Ontario and the state of New York. NY has much stricter requirements, as it follows CA emissions. This should also explain why: http://www.lbl.gov/Workplace/HumanResources/html/irss/VehicleImport.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OC Transpo 8238 Posted January 17, 2011 Share #6 Posted January 17, 2011 There is one place these buses belong, the scrap heap. NFI did a horrible job on them and OC Transpo did an even worse job maintaining them. They aren't fit for anything anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova RTS 9147 Posted January 17, 2011 Share #7 Posted January 17, 2011 There is one place these buses belong, the scrap heap. NFI did a horrible job on them and OC Transpo did an even worse job maintaining them. They aren't fit for anything anymore. A big reason why hand-me-down vehicles are a bad idea. The Bee-Line O5s, however, are 15 years old. But the real reason why I can't see the MTA as interested is because of emissions requirements being different between the province of Ontario and the state of New York. NY has much stricter requirements, as it follows CA emissions. This should also explain why: http://www.lbl.gov/Workplace/HumanResources/html/irss/VehicleImport.html Importing vehicles across country lines is generally a bad idea due to the different laws governing carcinogens in car emissions anyway. Canada also happens to be one of the few countries who's emission standards are actually lower than the US to my knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted January 17, 2011 Share #8 Posted January 17, 2011 Absolutely not. Asides from the aforementioned test issues that were mentioned, the flat out ended their relationship with New Flyer (for a time) because they didn't want these things. Plus you don't want hand me down buses. Look at the Bee-Line Orion 5s we got. The Bee-Line O5s, however, are 15 years old. But the real reason why I can't see the MTA as interested is because of emissions requirements being different between the province of Ontario and the state of New York. NY has much stricter requirements, as it follows CA emissions. This should also explain why: http://www.lbl.gov/Workplace/HumanResources/html/irss/VehicleImport.html These are definitely the main reasons I don't ever see it happening. Not only that, but that TA doesn't make it a habit of buying used buses. The Bee's were an exception. To add on to that, the TA rejected the D60LF, not once, but twice! The next artic order, which will total 185, is going to Nova anyway. If we do ever get any NF artics again, they will likely be 90 test XC60's. That's the only way I could see New Flyer getting in the artic game anytime before 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted January 17, 2011 Share #9 Posted January 17, 2011 I thought NY had more lenient emissions laws than CA did. The only good thing about those used Orions are the destination signs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycbusfan Posted January 17, 2011 Share #10 Posted January 17, 2011 Absolutely not. Asides from the aforementioned test issues that were mentioned, the flat out ended their relationship with New Flyer (for a time) because they didn't want these things. Plus you don't want hand me down buses. Look at the Bee-Line Orion 5s we got. Well it looks like the and New Flyer made up since we have C40LFR's on order and an Xcelsior demoing in service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted January 17, 2011 Share #11 Posted January 17, 2011 Well it looks like the and New Flyer made up since we have C40LFR's on order and an Xcelsior demoing in service. His point is the fallout was specifically over D60LF's. And to add on to that, we are set to award NF two more contracts very soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted January 17, 2011 Share #12 Posted January 17, 2011 I hope not, but knowing the and hand me downs, they're gonna be dumb asses and get these things and give them to MTAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted January 17, 2011 Share #13 Posted January 17, 2011 I hope not, but knowing the and hand me downs, they're gonna be dumb asses and get these things and give them to MTAB MTA does NOT do hand me downs!! The will NEVER take D60LF's from ANYBODY under any circumstances. The Bee's were an exception as I already said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted January 17, 2011 Share #14 Posted January 17, 2011 MTA does NOT do hand me downs!! The will NEVER take D60LF's from ANYBODY under any circumstances. The Bee's were an exception as I already said. For Transit, they don't do hand me downs. For MTAB, it's give them old ass buses and call it a day. I am so sick of MTAB being treated like shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted January 17, 2011 Share #15 Posted January 17, 2011 For Transit, they don't do hand me downs. For MTAB, it's give them old ass buses and call it a day. I am so sick of MTAB being treated like shit In that context it's a little different then. TA operates old QSC buses now, and before the TA took over, the PBL's had the oldest buses in the region. But that isn't the case anymore. True, BC could be treated better, but until they become one, or least operate like the TA/OA relationship, the culture is likely to remain the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novasupporter Posted January 18, 2011 Share #16 Posted January 18, 2011 His point is the fallout was specifically over D60LF's. And to add on to that, we are set to award NF two more contracts very soon! ENY, What are the two contacts for? With the test fleets going on, why would the MTA order more now? Also, how close is the Artic order with Nova? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted January 18, 2011 Share #17 Posted January 18, 2011 ENY, What are the two contacts for? With the test fleets going on, why would the MTA order more now? Also, how close is the Artic order with Nova? First, and foremost, Welcome to The Forums!:cool: The Test Fleet Thread explains it all in detail, but you have to go through the whole thread and check all my posts if you want to see how everything evolved, and learn all the details. Total Test Overview: 90 Artics -Nova 90 Express Buses -Nova 270 Standard Diesels -90 Nova -90 Orion Pending & Due now -90 New Flyer Pending & Due now CNG Ops. 475 New Flyer CNG's -135 -83 Options for MTA Bus Pending & Due Now This is only short term. We have more buses coming in the future after the test phase. Next Awards 60 Express Buses Pending & Due Feb. 2011 -Manufacturer Not confirmed to me, but I believe it is MCI 185 Artics Pending & Due Aug. 2011 -Nova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted January 18, 2011 Share #18 Posted January 18, 2011 For Transit, they don't do hand me downs. For MTAB, it's give them old ass buses and call it a day. I am so sick of MTAB being treated like shit Maybe if two certain depots didn't destroy everything they touched, they'd be viewed a bit better.... That Transit-Bus Company merger won't mean **** to most TA and OA operators... private services were taken over by the MTA (same with LIB, and I think they treat them the same way they do MTAB operators). It's not going to end any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova RTS 9147 Posted January 18, 2011 Share #19 Posted January 18, 2011 Next Awards 60 Express Buses Pending & Due Feb. 2011 -Manufacturer Not confirmed to me, but I believe it is MCI 185 Artics Pending & Due Aug. 2011 -Nova How did and MCI make up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted January 18, 2011 Share #20 Posted January 18, 2011 How did and MCI make up? Who else could it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted January 18, 2011 Share #21 Posted January 18, 2011 I thought NY had more lenient emissions laws than CA did. The only good thing about those used Orions are the destination signs... Most of the states in the Northeast go by California emissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novasupporter Posted January 19, 2011 Share #22 Posted January 19, 2011 First, and foremost, Welcome to The Forums!:cool: Thanks for welcoming me. I am learning a lot from these forums and have become very interested since the Nova facility is within my community.:tup: Total Test Overview: 90 Artics -Nova 90 Express Buses -Nova 270 Standard Diesels -90 Nova -90 Orion Pending & Due now -90 New Flyer Pending & Due now The 90 Express Buses you mention, aren't these actually Prevost, not Nova? Even though wording in contract states future portions of the order will need to be built by Nova. 185 Artics Pending & Due Aug. 2011 -Nova With Aug. 2011 contract date, when would deliveries be expected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted January 19, 2011 Share #23 Posted January 19, 2011 That post above includes all buses currently on order by the MTA, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted January 19, 2011 Share #24 Posted January 19, 2011 Thanks for welcoming me. I am learning a lot from these forums and have become very interested since the Nova facility is within my community.:tup: The 90 Express Buses you mention, aren't these actually Prevost, not Nova? Even though wording in contract states future portions of the order will need to be built by Nova. With Aug. 2011 contract date, when would deliveries be expected? I just say Nova because it's the same company. I would expect delivers to begin late this year and carry over into early 2012. That post above includes all buses currently on order by the MTA, right? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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