SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[Fresh Pond]

This might've been brought up before here or elsewhere....so forgive me in advance if it has.

 

So I read recently that there was an actual 4-car R44 set sitting in storage at Coney Island Yard for some time. Cars in that set are 5286-5289. I wonder what's the deal with this set? Is it on the scrap list? Long term storage? Any kinds of plans that would indicate that there is an interest in them, be this for parts or for preservation? Thanks!

Wasn't that one of the sets that was left there during the hurricane?

[M. Friday 1986]

Wasn't that one of the sets that was left there during the hurricane?

 

No clue if this specific R44 set was,  but I do remember there were several sets down there in CIY when Sandy hit.

[Turbo19]

This might've been brought up before here or elsewhere....so forgive me in advance if it has.

 

So I read recently that there was an actual 4-car R44 set sitting in storage at Coney Island Yard for some time. Cars in that set are 5286-5289. I wonder what's the deal with this set? Is it on the scrap list? Long term storage? Any kinds of plans that would indicate that there is an interest in them, be this for parts or for preservation? Thanks!

Speculation dictates it'd be placed on the , or as mentioned earlier perhaps even the , though the latter is really a running joke. F**k, even proposing 62A's on the , LMAO.

[M. Friday 1986]

Speculation dictates it'd be placed on the , or as mentioned earlier perhaps even the , though the latter is really a running joke. F**k, even proposing 62A's on the , LMAO.

 

Lol....I doubt they'd put a train back in service that's been out of service for a long time. Even less of a chance if this set was in CIY when the yard got flooded by Sandy. But if it did, that would be something. Just wonder about this specific set though, since it wasn't scrapped this year with the rest of the mainline R44 sets.

[AndrewJC]

Some timers are set to prevent station overruns such as the case with 125th Street on the IND CPW, on the northbound as an example.  Many reasons for timers to slow down trains at approaching tight radial curves or protect switches to mitigate derailment but those are not the only purposes for the timers installed. So that was my thinking on the GT's in general and why signals division set the block signaling up this way, but again as a guess.

 

There are curves approaching 125th and an interlocking immediately following. The GT's enforce a safe speed through the curve and protect the interlocking. The station has nothing to do with it.

 

(Also, those GT's have been in place since the line was resignaled. The Fulton St. line still has its original IND signal system, with a few modifications, including GT's, grafted on recently.)

[realizm]

There are curves approaching 125th and an interlocking immediately following. The GT's enforce a safe speed through the curve and protect the interlocking. The station has nothing to do with it.

 

(Also, those GT's have been in place since the line was resignaled. The Fulton St. line still has its original IND signal system, with a few modifications, including GT's, grafted on recently.)

 

I am not speculating, this was highlighted by a train operator so that's why I am saying this.

 

.....This in regards to 125th Street.

[AndrewJC]

I am not speculating, this was highlighted by a train operator so that's why I am saying this.

 

.....This in regards to 125th Street.

 

Train operators are not signal engineers. Signal systems are designed by signal engineers, not train operators, and they are designed to meet safety requirements for train spacing and for interlocking protection. From a purely signal engineering perspective, there's nothing wrong with a train overrunning a station.

[realizm]

Train operators are not signal engineers. Signal systems are designed by signal engineers, not train operators, and they are designed to meet safety requirements for train spacing and for interlocking protection. From a purely signal engineering perspective, there's nothing wrong with a train overrunning a station.

 

You do know T/Os go through extensive training in schoolcar on signals, correct good sir? So I would imagine said T/O would know what he is talking about. I wouldn't question it. 

[AndrewJC]

You do know T/Os go through extensive training in schoolcar on signals, correct good sir? So I would imagine said T/O would know what he is talking about. I wouldn't question it. 

 

Train operators are trained extensively in what signals mean and in how to respond to them. They aren't trained in the design of signal systems.

 

I've spoken about this at length with a number of signal engineers, since the topic fascinates me.

[realizm]

Train operators are trained extensively in what signals mean and in how to respond to them. They aren't trained in the design of signal systems.

 

I've spoken about this at length with a number of signal engineers, since the topic fascinates me.

I agree it is fascinating. It's going to be interesting how the MTA is going to figure out how to incorporate CBTC into a block signal system with the Queens Blvd Line with their pending 2014 construction start date. I mean we know in other transit systems it was indeed done, but in this case with the complications involved with the QBL CBTC system incorporated into traditional block signal equipped trunk lines in Manhattan, it will take significant innovation on the parts of the signal engineers to make it work.

Edited December 26, 2013 by realizm

[Jsunflyguy]

An odd feature on the Fulton line is leaving a few stations (Utica local westbound comes to mind) there is a signal leaving the station and after the switch that has a sign 'ST 20'. Why is there a station time at the exit signal of a platform? I believe there were two other such instances on Fulton but I can't recall where.

 

[peacemak3r]

You do know T/Os go through extensive training in schoolcar on signals, correct good sir? So I would imagine said T/O would know what he is talking about. I wouldn't question it. 

 

I'm reading AndrewJC's responses and your responses that follow and I am certain that you are not understanding what he is saying.

 

He is saying that signals are placed and designed by engineers, not the train operators as you seem to be implying. Train operators are what they are...train operators. They are trained to read the signals to properly operate their trains. They are in no way in charge of placing signals of where they are. I don't get how you couldn't get that.

[realizm]

I'm reading AndrewJC's responses and your responses that follow and I am certain that you are not understanding what he is saying.

 

He is saying that signals are placed and designed by engineers, not the train operators as you seem to be implying. Train operators are what they are...train operators. They are trained to read the signals to properly operate their trains. They are in no way in charge of placing signals of where they are. I don't get how you couldn't get that.

 

However the T/O has to understand the purpose of the signals he is looking at. In this case, timers, and why. Which is what I see the T/Os post all the time to tell you the truth, concerning schoolcar. (To protect switches? Radial curve? Downgrade? )  It makes them more effective train operators.....

 

To clear things up here, the debate started with an inquiry on the reasons for slower speeds which may be unnecessary on a particular stretch of the IND Fulton Street Line. Which lead to a pondering over why the timers on the CPW before 125th Street are actually there as a side point.

 

While Andrew JC brought up the point that the reason for the timers is to slow down trains approaching 125th with the interlocking ahead with his knowledge gained from signal engineers, I mentioned the fact that a T/O threw it out there that it is also to prevent the train from overrunning the station, a safety issue.  At that timer before 125th Street in an unrelated thread. I will have to say Andrew and myself may both be correct.

Edited December 26, 2013 by realizm

[R188 7857]

There are quite a few R62A's with RFW on the Manhattan side. Should really start grabbing videos before they're gone! Many are getting full-width cabs on the flushing side as well, saw quite a lot the other day. Better get the  RFW's before they're gone!

[RollOver]

However the T/O has to understand the purpose of the signals he is looking at. In this case, timers, and why. Which is what I see the T/Os post all the time to tell you the truth, concerning schoolcar. (To protect switches? Radial curve? Downgrade? )  It makes them more effective train operators.....

 

To clear things up here, the debate started with an inquiry on the reasons for slower speeds which may be unnecessary on a particular stretch of the IND Fulton Street Line. Which lead to a pondering over why the timers on the CPW before 125th Street are actually there as a side point.

 

While Andrew JC brought up the point that the reason for the timers is to slow down trains approaching 125th with the interlocking ahead with his knowledge gained from signal engineers, I mentioned the fact that a T/O threw it out there that it is also to prevent the train from overrunning the station, a safety issue.  At that timer before 125th Street in an unrelated thread. I will have to say Andrew and myself may both be correct.

 

You both are completely correct. There's no reason why uptown trains should excessively speed through the curve at 40+mph before 125th. It all boils down to safety.

[Union Tpke]

Today I was on an short turn to Canal St.

 

I also saw a set of R46s on the

 

Using Tapatalk

Edited December 26, 2013 by Union Tpke

[R62AR33]

There are quite a few R62A's with RFW on the Manhattan side. Should really start grabbing videos before they're gone! Many are getting full-width cabs on the flushing side as well, saw quite a lot the other day. Better get the  RFW's before they're gone!

That's only because before they get the R62As back from Flushing for the , Westchester Yard wants both sides to be full width cabs , that is the reason why now you see full width cabs of both sides of Flushings R62As

[AndrewJC]

I agree it is fascinating. It's going to be interesting how the MTA is going to figure out how to incorporate CBTC into a block signal system with the Queens Blvd Line with their pending 2014 construction start date. I mean we know in other transit systems it was indeed done, but in this case with the complications involved with the QBL CBTC system incorporated into traditional block signal equipped trunk lines in Manhattan, it will take significant innovation on the parts of the signal engineers to make it work.

CBTC will be replacing the existing QBL wayside signal system entirely.

 

An odd feature on the Fulton line is leaving a few stations (Utica local westbound comes to mind) there is a signal leaving the station and after the switch that has a sign 'ST 20'. Why is there a station time at the exit signal of a platform? I believe there were two other such instances on Fulton but I can't recall where.

Good question! I'll see if I can get any information.

[realizm]

CBTC will be replacing the existing QBL wayside signal system entirely.

 

Good question! I'll see if I can get any information.

 

 

Wait... they updated the contract? I was thinking from what I read some months ago on the MTA site that they were going as far as Union Tpke.

[AndrewJC]

Wait... they updated the contract? I was thinking from what I read some months ago on the MTA site that they were going as far as Union Tpke.

 

No, you're right. I think I misunderstood you. CBTC is only being installed between Union Turnpike and 50th Street, but in that area there won't be any wayside signals except at the interlockings.

[Fresh Pond]

No, you're right. I think I misunderstood you. CBTC is only being installed between Union Turnpike and 50th Street, but in that area there won't be any wayside signals except at the interlockings.

Didn't they learn their lesion with the ...watch when the off chance CBTC shuts down...that's a huge ass absolute block

[M. Friday 1986]

Random thought of the night....partially because I can't sleep....

 

As you know, we have a number of Redbird cars that are being set aside for, or are already in preservation. One thing I noticed is that we have at least one pair of each class of cars that later in their lives fell under the category of "Redbird". For example, we have one pair of R26s....a pair of R29s...a pair of R36 mainline cars, etc. (Same can be said for the B-Division equipment - a pair or R40s....a pair of R38s, etc. We have two pairs of R32s for the reason that the ones preserved were the first cars delivered and traveled under their own power to Grand Central Station via today's Metro North line).

 

Now, when it comes to the R33 mainline cars, we have not one pair, but four, or 8 cars that sport various paint schemes. It made me wonder though: what was it about the R33ML class that made them want to preserve a train of 8 cars? In other words, what thoughts or ideas went towards the decision that, instead of preserving one pair, we needed four pairs? Side note: I do remember vaguely something about them wanting to keep 6-8 R38 cars when they retired (cars in the 4140-range at Concourse Yard), but these were quickly scrapped after.

 

Not that I'm complaining that we have too many R33MLs, lol...but I am curious to know why we have a significant amount of them. Ideas and discussions welcome.

Edited December 27, 2013 by M. Friday 1986

[Union Tpke]

At 7 Avenue-53 Street before the sixth avenue trunk line opened, what was the sixth ave trackway used for? Was any track installed?

 

 

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[Calvin]

i heard that a R32 set was on the but today i saw a R32 set 3PM at the williamsburg bridge as a

Edited December 27, 2013 by Calvin

[RollOver]

i heard that a R32 set was on the but today i saw a R32 set 3PM at the williamsburg bridge as a

 

That 8-car R32 train has been running on the ever since June.