BrooklynBus Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share #26 Posted July 20, 2011 But back to your original pointer there.... I don't think saving an xfer at atlantic alone would be a reason for Rockaway folk to consider (guess abandon is too strong a word) the Brighton over the Nostrand av line.... They might not switch to a great degree in the AM rush because they have a better chance of getting a seat at Flatbush Avenue. I feel most of the demand however would be at other times especially during non-rush hours when many don't consider the Junction to be a safe neighborhood to change between the bus and train especially during the late evening. I guess the (MTA)'s "secret plans" aren't so secret after all. Why does the wait so many years after a mall/shopping center opens they decide to send dome buses out there? I mean, the subway can only take me but so far. I do have some ideas for Canarsie Plaza. Why can't all routes flourish evenly? Because they only extend any service when the politicians start clamouring for additional service. All they want is to cut service not add any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted July 20, 2011 Share #27 Posted July 20, 2011 BTW, this may explain my service plan for the B2 better: Destinations: Midwood, CI Avenue and Peninsula Hospital. The eastern end would be right at the front door to the Far Rockaway Depot - no deadheads. There would be rush-hour short-turns running from the Flatbush Depot to Midwood. I am not sure whether it should run via Avenue R or Quentin Road in Flatlands, however. This also takes advantage of upcoming ADA accessibility at the Kings Highway B/Q station. Direct service would also be provided to a new housing development at the border of Hammels and Arverne in the Rockaways. In addition, it would give people in Hammels and Arverne a one-seat ride to Brooklyn (there is a sizable transfer component at Beach 116, 147, and 169 Streets). That to me allows for Q22 service to be reduced, especially given that 2 routes through Belle Harbor aren't warranted at that frequency. I would also propose extending the Q35 down the B2 line through Rockaway Park, Hammels, and Arverne, and run the routes alternating with each other all day. At Kings Plaza, the B2 loading spot would be used by that and the Q35. It would also open up that area of Queens to service on the Broadway and 6/8 Avenue lines. By my estimate, this will probably require 16 buses off-peak at 20-minute headways on both routes route (combined B2 and Q35) on a route that should take about 70-72 minutes. and I also expect new ridership to be generated by the slight westward extension of the B2. But you could probably take 2 buses off the Q22 every hour, as I would only send every third bus past Beach 73 Street to Roxbury. (There would be short-turns on the Q35 to Beach 116 Street only during the rush, and I would estimate that during the rush, you would need about 23-24 buses combined.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 20, 2011 Share #28 Posted July 20, 2011 BTW, this may explain my service plan for the B2 better: Destinations: Midwood, CI Avenue and Peninsula Hospital. The eastern end would be right at the front door to the Far Rockaway Depot - no deadheads. There would be rush-hour short-turns running from the Flatbush Depot to Midwood. I am not sure whether it should run via Avenue R or Quentin Road in Flatlands, however. This also takes advantage of upcoming ADA accessibility at the Kings Highway B/Q station. Direct service would also be provided to a new housing development at the border of Hammels and Arverne in the Rockaways. In addition, it would give people in Hammels and Arverne a one-seat ride to Brooklyn (there is a sizable transfer component at Beach 116, 147, and 169 Streets). That to me allows for Q22 service to be reduced, especially given that 2 routes through Belle Harbor aren't warranted at that frequency. I would also propose extending the Q35 down the B2 line through Rockaway Park, Hammels, and Arverne, and run the routes alternating with each other all day. At Kings Plaza, the B2 loading spot would be used by that and the Q35. It would also open up that area of Queens to service on the Broadway and 6/8 Avenue lines. By my estimate, this will probably require 16 buses off-peak at 20-minute headways on both routes route (combined B2 and Q35) on a route that should take about 70-72 minutes. and I also expect new ridership to be generated by the slight westward extension of the B2. But you could probably take 2 buses off the Q22 every hour, as I would only send every third bus past Beach 73 Street to Roxbury. (There would be short-turns on the Q35 to Beach 116 Street only during the rush, and I would estimate that during the rush, you would need about 23-24 buses combined.) And you still didn't explain how this correlates to the QM16/QM17... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 20, 2011 Share #29 Posted July 20, 2011 And you still didn't explain how this correlates to the QM16/QM17... Supposedly, the fact that they have an easier trip to Manhattan negates the need for the QM16/QM17. It's only a few trips, and like I said, the thing about having to transfer is that, it is extremely annoying to have to transfer mid-trip. Spending 30 minutes on the subway and then spending 30-40 minutes on a bus isn't as easy as it sounds. So even if the B2 (or Q75) is time-competitive with the QM16/QM17, there is hardly going to be any shift in demand. The only argument you can possibly make is that ADA riders won't need the express bus anymore. By the way, out of curiosity, the QM16/QM17 aren't much faster than the , are they? According to the schedule, the travel time for both is around an hour to Midtown (I'm not suggesting that those riders take the , but I'm just curious) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Posted July 20, 2011 Share #30 Posted July 20, 2011 Damn, its gonna be a hard time going to KP without the B2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 20, 2011 Share #31 Posted July 20, 2011 And you still didn't explain how this correlates to the QM16/QM17... his route is by no means, a substitute for qm16/17 service... the only people you'll see disembarking an express for a local, are those that get on the first express that arrives, and their intended destination is the exact opposite of the direction the expresses travel.... In other words (I'm not gonna lie), you do have ppl. gettin off QM16's @ B 95th & xferring for the Q22 towards far rockaway.... which is more common than seeing ppl. disembark QM17's lookin to take the Q22 towards rockaway pk, etc..... Neither of which is commonplace, overall.... Spending 30 minutes on the subway and then spending 30-40 minutes on a bus isn't as easy as it sounds. So even if the B2 (or Q75) is time-competitive with the QM16/QM17, there is hardly going to be any shift in demand. The only argument you can possibly make is that ADA riders won't need the express bus anymore. By the way, out of curiosity, the QM16/QM17 aren't much faster than the , are they? According to the schedule, the travel time for both is around an hour to Midtown (I'm not suggesting that those riders take the , but I'm just curious) #1 - Thank you. #2a - Cait Sith can tell you all about the A in eastern brooklyn/all of queens.... #2b - Far as the expresses.... The does little to nothin for QM16 riders; they would be forced to take the shuttle, then some other local bus, if they live in the B. 100's on down.... As for the QM17, I would say the express shaves at least 10 mins. off those riders' commute times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted July 20, 2011 Share #32 Posted July 20, 2011 BTW, this may explain my service plan for the B2 better: Destinations: Midwood, CI Avenue and Peninsula Hospital. The eastern end would be right at the front door to the Far Rockaway Depot - no deadheads. There would be rush-hour short-turns running from the Flatbush Depot to Midwood. I am not sure whether it should run via Avenue R or Quentin Road in Flatlands, however. This also takes advantage of upcoming ADA accessibility at the Kings Highway B/Q station. Direct service would also be provided to a new housing development at the border of Hammels and Arverne in the Rockaways. In addition, it would give people in Hammels and Arverne a one-seat ride to Brooklyn (there is a sizable transfer component at Beach 116, 147, and 169 Streets). That to me allows for Q22 service to be reduced, especially given that 2 routes through Belle Harbor aren't warranted at that frequency. I would also propose extending the Q35 down the B2 line through Rockaway Park, Hammels, and Arverne, and run the routes alternating with each other all day. At Kings Plaza, the B2 loading spot would be used by that and the Q35. It would also open up that area of Queens to service on the Broadway and 6/8 Avenue lines. By my estimate, this will probably require 16 buses off-peak at 20-minute headways on both routes route (combined B2 and Q35) on a route that should take about 70-72 minutes. and I also expect new ridership to be generated by the slight westward extension of the B2. But you could probably take 2 buses off the Q22 every hour, as I would only send every third bus past Beach 73 Street to Roxbury. (There would be short-turns on the Q35 to Beach 116 Street only during the rush, and I would estimate that during the rush, you would need about 23-24 buses combined.) The merger of B2 and Q35 is interesting. But isn't a merger good enough the elimination of Q35 north of ave r or wherever the B2 turns isn't a big deal since the B41 exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 20, 2011 Share #33 Posted July 20, 2011 The merger of B2 and Q35 is interesting. But isn't a merger good enough the elimination of Q35 north of ave r or wherever the B2 turns isn't a big deal since the B41 exists. Who said anything about merging the B2 and Q35???? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 20, 2011 Share #34 Posted July 20, 2011 I would support a B2 extension westward moreso than I would eastward (southward) - and I aint too thrilled about that.... I still say the Q35 should be the only link b/w Brooklyn & the Rockaways.... You can't beat an interborough route that travels on a straight path that ends @ a terminal subway station.... As much as I hate the fact, Rockaway riders DO get dibs on gettin a seat on the IRT..... I'm still not convinced that those riders would even want to board a crushloaded B or Q..... I'd focus more on rectifying the issues on the Q35, moreso than I would tryna eliminate certain xfers w/i the rockaways (which to me, is what this pretty much boils down to)..... ...and terminating buses @ some arbitrary point in the middle of the rockaways, forget about that.... although I wouldn't have every 22 end @ B. 169th, the fact remains - This is why the current 22 works.... Far rockaway to Neponsit... BOOM, provides coverage throughout the rockaways Who said anything about merging the B2 and Q35???? lmao... how would that even work ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted July 20, 2011 Share #35 Posted July 20, 2011 Who said anything about merging the B2 and Q35???? :confused: My service plan would do just that - alternate trips between Coney Island Avenue and Brooklyn College, and have the rest of it be a duplicate service from Kings Plaza to Peninsula Hospital, and downgrading the Q22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 20, 2011 Share #36 Posted July 20, 2011 Who said anything about merging the B2 and Q35???? :confused: He's suggesting that the Q35 simply be rerouted to Kings Highway via the B2 route. Riders going to Brooklyn College would take the B41. I don't know if this would result in overcrowding on the B41s though (I would imagine a lot of riders get off and transfer there, instead of staying on until Downtown Brooklyn) By the way, the traffic problems on Flatbush Avenue are north of The Junction, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted July 20, 2011 Share #37 Posted July 20, 2011 Supposedly, the fact that they have an easier trip to Manhattan negates the need for the QM16/QM17. It's only a few trips, and like I said, the thing about having to transfer is that, it is extremely annoying to have to transfer mid-trip. Spending 30 minutes on the subway and then spending 30-40 minutes on a bus isn't as easy as it sounds. So even if the B2 (or Q75) is time-competitive with the QM16/QM17, there is hardly going to be any shift in demand. The only argument you can possibly make is that ADA riders won't need the express bus anymore. By the way, out of curiosity, the QM16/QM17 aren't much faster than the , are they? According to the schedule, the travel time for both is around an hour to Midtown (I'm not suggesting that those riders take the , but I'm just curious) Trust me the QM16/17 is WAY FASTER than the !!!!!!!!!!!!! At rush hour the is NOT on-time. Frequent delays are very common at rush hr seriously it's not worth it unless you are bound for downtown brooklyn. is a sardine can at rush hour those former express bus riders WILL NOT FIT on the !!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 20, 2011 Share #38 Posted July 20, 2011 He's suggesting that the Q35 simply be rerouted to Kings Highway via the B2 route. Riders going to Brooklyn College would take the B41. I don't know if this would result in overcrowding on the B41s though (I would imagine a lot of riders get off and transfer there, instead of staying on until Downtown Brooklyn) By the way, the traffic problems on Flatbush Avenue are north of The Junction, right? He's sayin he wants to split service b/w the brighton line (well, CI av) & the IRT... I agree w/ you, instead of current Q35 riders xferring to the B3, you're gonna have riders xferring onto B41's... I don't see rockaway riders opting to wait for a bus that'll either go to CI av or the junction - they're gonna hop on the first Q35 in service.... by gettin rid of an xfer situation w/i the rockaways, he's gonna create one in Brooklyn - on top of the one that already exists w/ the current Q35 @ Av U...... as for traffic on flatbush, yes, the grunt of it occurs north of the junction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 20, 2011 Share #39 Posted July 20, 2011 lmao... how would that even work ??? Seems like all we'd have is a bigger mess than the current one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 20, 2011 Share #40 Posted July 20, 2011 He's sayin he wants to split service b/w the brighton line (well, CI av) & the IRT... I agree w/ you, instead of current Q35 riders xferring to the B3, you're gonna have riders xferring onto B41's... I don't see rockaway riders opting to wait for a bus that'll either go to CI av or the junction - they're gonna hop on the first Q35 in service.... by gettin rid of an xfer situation w/i the rockaways, he's gonna create one in Brooklyn - on top of the one that already exists w/ the current Q35 @ Av U...... as for traffic on flatbush, yes, the grunt of it occurs north of the junction. I was responding to QJT's plan, which would shift all service to Kings Highway (and why that would be a bad idea). I'm assuming that most Q35 riders aren't going to Manhattan, right (or else they would be using up their transfer on the B41 when you described how they would wait for the first bus that comes and then transfer in Brooklyn)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 20, 2011 Share #41 Posted July 20, 2011 I was responding to QJT's plan, which would shift all service to Kings Highway (and why that would be a bad idea). I'm assuming that most Q35 riders aren't going to Manhattan, right (or else they would be using up their transfer on the B41 when you described how they would wait for the first bus that comes and then transfer in Brooklyn)? QJT was responding to AEMoreira's plan.... As for your question, that much I'm not sure of.... I'd stop to think that the rockaway riders (west of the wye) that are going to manhattan, are moreso the ones that all pile onto Q53's @ 116th to xfer for the .... Remember the whole thing regarding the Q35 & the making of all the stops it used to along F'bush.... Brooklyn riders weren't the ones that cried foul regarding that... It was the rockaway folks that wanted faster access to/from the IRT.... Those riders are gonna get on the first bus that shows, I'm almost 100% sure of that.... you have to realize how certain groups of riders think/react/feel when it comes to public transportation.... Rockaway residents (in general) feel like they've been neglected (puttin it nicely), and I don't blame them one bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 20, 2011 Share #42 Posted July 20, 2011 QJT was responding to AEMoreira's plan.... As for your question, that much I'm not sure of.... I'd stop to think that the rockaway riders (west of the wye) that are going to manhattan, are moreso the ones that all pile onto Q53's @ 116th to xfer for the .... Remember the whole thing regarding the Q35 & the making of all the stops it used to along F'bush.... Brooklyn riders weren't the ones that cried foul regarding that... It was the rockaway folks that wanted faster access to/from the IRT.... Those riders are gonna get on the first bus that shows, I'm almost 100% sure of that.... you have to realize how certain groups of riders think/react/feel when it comes to public transportation.... Rockaway residents (in general) feel like they've been neglected (puttin it nicely), and I don't blame them one bit... Let's hope we don't get a speech about how because they're far out and not that big population wise that their service is adequate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 20, 2011 Share #43 Posted July 20, 2011 Let's hope we don't get a speech about how because they're far out and not that big population wise that their service is adequate. lol... that's the exact corny argument ppl. bring up about the not serving rockaway park.... Far rockaway gets most the service, the lefferts folks gets screwed in the process, and the rockaway park folks get a dinky shuttle that runs every 15-20 mins... I don't blame those folks (rockaway pk.) for takin the Q53 on up to cross bay/liberty to double their chances of catching the ... The Q21 really serves no purpose in the rockaways... I'll go as far as to say 98.99999% of ridership b/w the 53 & the 21 down there, goes to the 53... those folk don't wanna meander through lindenwood to catch the same train the 53 gets them much much quicker to.... It is no accident that the 53 terminates right in front B 116th , and the Q21 ends over there w/ the Q35.... Waiting for the 35 over there, I always laugh when a bus pulls up, ppl. bunch up around the curbside to start to board, then the destination sign shows that of the 21 (I believe those 21 drivers do that on purpose btw), and far more often than not, EVERYONE backs away.... that says a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted July 20, 2011 Share #44 Posted July 20, 2011 lol... that's the exact corny argument ppl. bring up about the not serving rockaway park.... Far rockaway gets most the service, the lefferts folks gets screwed in the process, and the rockaway park folks get a dinky shuttle that runs every 15-20 mins... I don't blame those folks (rockaway pk.) for takin the Q53 on up to cross bay/liberty to double their chances of catching the ... The Q21 really serves no purpose in the rockaways... I'll go as far as to say 98.99999% of ridership b/w the 53 & the 21 down there, goes to the 53... those folk don't wanna meander through lindenwood to catch the same train the 53 gets them much much quicker to.... It is no accident that the 53 terminates right in front B 116th , and the Q21 ends over there w/ the Q35.... Waiting for the 35 over there, I always laugh when a bus pulls up, ppl. bunch up around the curbside to start to board, then the destination sign shows that of the 21 (I believe those 21 drivers do that on purpose btw), and far more often than not, EVERYONE backs away.... that says a lot. so the Q21 is hated why not eliminate the lindenwood segment or shorted the Q21 to end in lindenwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted July 20, 2011 Share #45 Posted July 20, 2011 QJT was responding to AEMoreira's plan.... As for your question, that much I'm not sure of.... I'd stop to think that the rockaway riders (west of the wye) that are going to manhattan, are moreso the ones that all pile onto Q53's @ 116th to xfer for the .... Remember the whole thing regarding the Q35 & the making of all the stops it used to along F'bush.... Brooklyn riders weren't the ones that cried foul regarding that... It was the rockaway folks that wanted faster access to/from the IRT.... Those riders are gonna get on the first bus that shows, I'm almost 100% sure of that.... you have to realize how certain groups of riders think/react/feel when it comes to public transportation.... Rockaway residents (in general) feel like they've been neglected (puttin it nicely), and I don't blame them one bit... what is the Q35's stopping pattern on flatbush ave now??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'89 Liberty MCI Posted July 20, 2011 Share #46 Posted July 20, 2011 Waiting for the 35 over there, I always laugh when a bus pulls up, ppl. bunch up around the curbside to start to board, then the destination sign shows that of the 21 (I believe those 21 drivers do that on purpose btw), and far more often than not, EVERYONE backs away.... that says a lot. City job. what is the Q35's stopping pattern on flatbush ave now??? It seems to stop at the B41's limited stops only: Nostrand Avenue, Kings Highway, and then I think it's like Quentin Road, Fillmore Avenue, Avenue V (Kings Plaza), then the boondock stops by Floyd Bennett Field, Aviator ice rink, and whatnot. Only difference as you can see is that it doesn't make all the stops from Avenue P to Kings Plaza like the B41. At least I don't think so based on when I rode it a couple of weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted July 21, 2011 Share #47 Posted July 21, 2011 what is the Q35's stopping pattern on flatbush ave now??? Brooklyn College, Kings Highway, Avenue P/N, Avenue S, Avenue U, Toys-R-Us, then all stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 21, 2011 Share #48 Posted July 21, 2011 so the Q21 is hated why not eliminate the lindenwood segment or shorted the Q21 to end in lindenwood It's not that it's hated, it's that the Q53 is a better option..... The Q21 was extended north past cross bay/liberty b/c its usage in the rockaways was so abominable... when they added the stops that they did to the Q53 south of Hoffman drive, that's when the Q53 took off, and the importance of the 21 in the rockaways went to pot..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 21, 2011 Share #49 Posted July 21, 2011 Out of curiosity, you mentioned that riders in Rockaway Park were taking the buses in the area to avoid the shuttle. Out of all of the riders in the area, what percentage would you say do the following?: *Q21/Q53 to Broad Channel for the *Q22 to Beach 67th Street for the *Q53 to Rockaway Blvd for the And does it vary based on the time of day (are there more riders going to Rockaway Blvd off-peak when the runs infrequently?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted July 21, 2011 Share #50 Posted July 21, 2011 so the Q21 is hated why not eliminate the lindenwood segment or shorted the Q21 to end in lindenwood There would be no local northbound service south of 160 Avenue or local southbound service to 165 Avenue. That is why it continues to the Rockaways, for network coverage. And of course, it is currently interlined with the Q35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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