Volunteers needed to assist us in expanding "QM20" Express bus service to Lower Manhattan

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What do you mean what exactly do I mean by crowding.....

 

Enough people to form a crowd enough for me to have used the word "crowding", that's what....

about 10-15 ppl; didn't "exactly" sit there & count....

 

I don't know about you anymore....

 

 

What I'm not getting is why you're so surprised that there is crowding there. That's why I asked. I thought maybe I was missing something. :confused: Just because you have all four buses that stop there doesn't mean that crowding won't be there. It's similar to the Fingerboard Rd stop. You have a ton of express buses that stop there and you still have a bunch of crowding there.

[B35 via Church]

What I'm not getting is why you're so surprised that there is crowding there. That's why I asked. I thought maybe I was missing something. :confused: Just because you have all four buses that stop there doesn't mean that crowding won't be there. It's similar to the Fingerboard Rd stop. You have a ton of express buses that stop there and you still have a bunch of crowding there.

 

It's the level of crowding.... I don't expect it along Cortelyou b/c is it not that dense for one, and two, the amt. of riders disembarking along cortelyou during the pm hrs isn't close to being equivalent to the # of riders waiting for expresses during the am hrs....

 

What goes on @ Fingerboard & what goes on @ Cortelyou are two different things.... why you are using fingerboard as some sort of blueprint regarding crowding at a particular stop, I don't know, nor at this point care..... I see no evidence of people dropping off loved ones along cortelyou, at either of the two stops...

 

You not being "so surprised" had nothin to do with the concern I had anyway.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It's the level of crowding.... I don't expect it along Cortelyou b/c is it not that dense for one, and two, the amt. of riders disembarking along cortelyou during the pm hrs isn't close to being equivalent to the # of riders waiting for expresses during the am hrs....

 

What goes on @ Fingerboard & what goes on @ Cortelyou are two different things.... why you are using fingerboard as some sort of blueprint regarding crowding at a particular stop, I don't know, nor at this point care..... I see no evidence of people dropping off loved ones along cortelyou, at either of the two stops...

 

You not being "so surprised" had nothin to do with the concern I had anyway.....

 

You're right, Fingerboard and Cortelyou are two different things, but still related... I'm willing to bet several things happen at Cortelyou which is similar to what happens at Fingerboard because I speak with other express bus riders on Staten Island AND Brooklyn about their riding habits, plus I know what I do as an express bus rider myself. You have some folks that take the express bus in, but don't take it coming home due to them not wanting to put up with the stress in the morning of the subway. For them the express bus can offer a more comfortable ride and also it being faster if you pick it up in the right place. Meanwhile they'll take the subway home because they're not in a rush and they may travel home at a time which allows for less crushloaded subways. Cortelyou is similar to Fingerboard in that you have several routes that all coverge there and often expresss bus commuters go to places where there is very frequent service with a quick ride into the city. You also have to consider that the times that folks start in the morning are similar but the time that they finish seem to vary greatly and I've noticed that when traveling on the express bus at different parts of the day. I'll see the same folks in the morning, but not at night and I've seen many of them all traveling at different times in the evening.

 

What often happens also is that folks will be dropped off somewhere within walking distance to the bus OR they park somewhere on a side street or wherever parking is available and then they walk to the bus. Coming home what I also see is that riders habits change, including mine. They may change their route or change where they get off at if they use the same route or not the use express bus at all. You may see them get off but they walk to a spot to be picked up. What I find is that the morning rush is much more concentrated than in the evening.

 

So in sum they're two different stops but they share quite a bit in common.

 

I'm willing to bet the same kind of things happen with the Queens buses too.

[B35 via Church]

^^ Some of what you're sayin there, you're preaching to the choir.....

 

The rest of it..... well, I don't think the two are that related simply because express buses stop at those locations....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

^^ Some of what you're sayin there, you're preaching to the choir.....

 

The rest of it..... well, I don't think the two are that related simply because express buses stop at those locations....

 

Well yeah... I would think you would know most of this by know. I still don't get why you're so shocked about the crowds there and why you think this location is so "unique" from any other major express bus stop that provides quick access to the city. What else could it be?? The only thing I can think of is the screwing up in the morning.

[B35 via Church]

Well yeah... I would think you would know most of this by know. I still don't get why you're so shocked about the crowds there and why you think this location is so "unique" from any other major express bus stop that provides quick access to the city. What else could it be?? The only thing I can think of is the screwing up in the morning.

 

Like I said, if you're not so shocked about it, good for you....

 

....and don't put words in my mouth Via, I didn't say a damn thing about the situation along cortelyou road being unique, nor was I paintin it out to be as such..... No one can't say or ask about an express bus without you chiming in with your know it all, boastful remarks... I'm making a comment in regards to checkmate's question about the BM's, you make the replies that you did; and within em, you're talkin to me about riverdale & about fingerboard road..... I didn't ask about no riverdale or no fingerboard road.... You mentioning what goes down with those 2 locales (because you have firsthand knowledge of em) isn't some sort of answer to what I was inquiring about....

 

As far as the Q, I don't think that has anything to do w/ it, but w/e....

 

You not being able to figure out why I'm so shocked (as you put it), doesn't equate to me making out like it's so damn unique....

what type of logic is that; what is wrong with you???

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Like I said, if you're not so shocked about it, good for you....

 

....and don't put words in my mouth Via, I didn't say a damn thing about the situation along cortelyou road being unique, nor was I paintin it out to be as such..... No one can't say or ask about an express bus without you chiming in with your know it all, boastful remarks... I'm making a comment in regards to checkmate's question about the BM's, and you're talkin to me about riverdale & about fingerboard road..... I didn't ask about no riverdale or no fingerboard road....

 

You not being able to figure out why I'm so shocked (as you put it), doesn't equate to me making out like it's so damn unique....

what type of logic is that; what is wrong with you???

 

Here are your words...

 

"As for Cortelyou, there's got to be some reason a crowd converges at the stratford rd. stop.... If that stop wasn't so far away from where I live, I'd walk over there in the morning & figure it out firsthand...."

 

You make it sound like it's such a unique stop with that "there's got to be some reason a crowd converges there" nonsense and then when I compare it to other neighborhoods in the city to give examples as to possibilities of why it's happening, you go telling me that they're not the same as if they have nothing in common because they're different neighborhoods, even though they're neighborhoods within New York City. I mean give me a break. Do you really think that stop is such a mystery?? I really don't and the reason why is I've thought about the time that route saves me over taking the train plenty of times when we hit that stop over there since I usually get on there Downtown at the last stop. It's just common sense. The area is located damn there dead smack in the middle of Brooklyn and taking the bus there allows you to avoid all of the stupid stops on the subway, so instead of spending 25 - 30 minutes on the subway you can spend maybe 10 minutes on the bus if you hit traffic right, plus the buses let you out Downtown where the doesn't stop, avoiding another long transfer to the .

 

And yeah I'm chiming in because I use the friggin' lines too and quite regularly too and have been for years. Aside from that I grew up in Brooklyn, so I think I'm entitled to speak on it.

 

Furthermore, I'd say your example is a perfect example as to why the QM20 needs to be extended Downtown. The additional transfer that Queens commuters face currently adds a substantial amount of time on to their commutes. Switching back to Brooklyn for example, having to transfer from the to the can easily add an additional 20 minutes on to the commute.

[B35 via Church]

Here are your words...

 

"As for Cortelyou, there's got to be some reason a crowd converges at the stratford rd. stop.... If that stop wasn't so far away from where I live, I'd walk over there in the morning & figure it out firsthand...."

 

You make it sound like its such a unique stop with that "there's got to be some reason a crowd converges there nonsense" and then when I compare it to other neighborhoods to give examples as to possibilities of why it's happening, you go telling me that they're not the same as if they have nothing in common because they're different neighborhoods, even though they're neighborhoods within New York City. I mean give me a break. Do you really think that stop is such a mystery?? I really don't and the reason why is I've thought about the time that route saves me over taking the train plenty of times when we hit that stop over there since I usually get on there Downtown at the last stop. It's just common sense. The area is located damn there dead smack in the middle of Brooklyn and taking the bus there allows you to avoid all of the stupid stops on the subway, so instead of spending 25 - 30 minutes on the subway you can spend maybe 10 minutes on the bus if you hit traffic right, plus the buses let you out Downtown where the doesn't stop, avoiding another long transfer to the .

 

And yeah I'm chiming in because I use the friggin' lines too and quite regularly too and have been for years. Aside from that I grew up in Brooklyn, so I think I'm entitled to speak on it.

 

Furthermore, I'd say your example is a perfect example as to why the QM20 needs to be extended Downtown. The additional transfer that Queens commuters face currently adds a substantial amount of time on to their commutes. Switching back to Brooklyn for example, having to transfer from the to the can easily add an additional 20 minutes on to the commute.

Reading too deep into that quote.... My inquiry about the number of folks waiting along cortelyou in the morning aint no attempt to making it like it's unique, regardless of the way you took it....

 

....and look at you gettin upset over something so menial.... Anyone else can make a comparison, and you are QUICK to tell them they're very different things.... but I when I tell you your comparison isn't similar in this case, you go off on this tirade here.... You don't have the answer, you don't have the answer... You can feel all the entitlement you want, just don't tell me about riverdale & fingerboard road when I'm asking about cortelyou..... That simple... I mean, I really don't know what you're gettin all riled up for..... If I'm so surprised, then let me be so surprised.....

 

 

As far as the Qm20, I never got the point of having both the 2 & the 2a ending @ the exact same terminal in midtown anyway....

I'm all for extending the 2a/20 down to lower manhattan.... let the 2 serve the midtown folk.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Reading too deep into that quote.... My inquiry about the number of folks waiting along cortelyou in the morning aint no attempt to making it like it's unique, regardless of the way you took it....

 

....and look at you gettin upset over something so menial.... Anyone else can make a comparison, and you are QUICK to tell them they're very different things.... but I when I tell you your comparison isn't similar in this case, you go off on this tirade here.... You don't have the answer, you don't have the answer... You can feel all the entitlement you want, just don't tell me about riverdale & fingerboard road when I'm asking about cortelyou..... That simple... I mean, I really don't know what you're gettin all riled up for..... If I'm so surprised, then let me be so surprised.....

 

 

As far as the Qm20, I never got the point of having both the 2 & the 2a ending @ the exact same terminal in midtown anyway....

I'm all for extending the 2a/20 down to lower manhattan.... let the 2 serve the midtown folk.....

 

No, I'm upset at all actually. It's just that as far as I'm concerned there are similarities to some express bus stops.

 

I'm still waiting to hear what you think the possible reasons are since you say that I'm so wrong.

[B35 via Church]

No, I'm upset at all actually. It's just that as far as I'm concerned there are similarities to some express bus stops.

 

I'm still waiting to hear what you think the possible reasons are since you say that I'm so wrong.

Yeah, some express bus stops have similarities to some others... As far as this particular case with what I was asking about & the comparisons you gave, I don't think they're that similar.... That is not saying or implicating you're "so wrong", Via....

 

Is that last crack supposed to be some witty retort... Who sits there & asks that same person for a possible solution to somethin, to that same person who's asking about it to begin with????

 

That would be like me asking you why do you think Queens express bus service is so anemic....

 

Seriously now, I wouldn't have made a reference in asking about it if I knew, or had an idea as to why there are more ppl. than I expected waiting along that portion of the BM's......

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah, some express bus stops have similarities to some others... As far as this particular case with what I was asking about & the comparisons you gave, I don't think that's the case.... That is not saying you're "so wrong", Via....

 

Is that last crack supposed to be some witty retort... Who sits there & asks that same person for a possible solution to somethin, to that same person who's asking it???? That would be like me asking you why do you think Queens express bus service is so anemic....

 

Seriously now, I wouldn't have made a reference in asking about it if I knew, or had an idea as to why there are more ppl. than I expected waiting along that portion of the BM's......

 

Well just because you don't have the answer per se doesn't mean that you don't have some ideas as to what could be the cause(s) now do you?

[B35 via Church]

Well just because you don't have the answer per se doesn't mean that you don't have some ideas as to what could be the cause(s) now do you?

 

That's just it.... and again, if I had some idea(s) where these people were coming from, I wouldn't have asked.... that stop in question wasn't always that busy.... and that aint me making this all out to be unique either...

 

You or anyone else reading this can take this FWIW, but this morning there were 18 people (yeah, I counted, this time) waiting over there at stratford.... I took the BM1 (super express); it was the first of the 2 buses that arrived at the stop at the time.... 4 of those ppl got on the bus I got on; personally I thought more of em would board but w/e.... how many of the remaining 14 took the downtown BM2 that was behind us, I wouldn't know.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That's just it.... and again, if I had some idea(s) where these people were coming from, I wouldn't have asked.... that stop in question wasn't always that busy.... and that aint me making this all out to be unique either...

 

You or anyone else reading this can take this FWIW, but this morning there were 18 people (yeah, I counted, this time) waiting over there at stratford.... I took the BM1 (super express); it was the first of the 2 buses that arrived at the stop at the time.... 4 of those ppl got on the bus I got on; personally I thought more of em would board but w/e.... how many of the remaining 14 took the downtown BM2 that was behind us, I wouldn't know.....

 

Makes sense to me... You have some folks over there that prefer the express bus over the subway when they can afford to take it. That's the impression that I get. I find ridership tends to fluctuate over there anyway, but they clearly prefer using the express bus over the subway which they could most certainly walk to since there is a Cortelyou Rd stop pretty close by. Seems like more new folks are moving into the area which could have something to do with it as well. Dare I say it... Yuppie types... lol Then again I can't blame them though. I mean if I lived over there I wouldn't want to deal with the subway there either. They're right on the boarder where it gets a bit rough at.

[B35 via Church]

Makes sense to me... You have some folks over there that prefer the express bus over the subway when they can afford to take it. That's the impression that I get. I find ridership tends to fluctuate over there anyway, but they clearly prefer using the express bus over the subway which they could most certainly walk to since there is a Cortelyou Rd stop pretty close by. Seems like more new folks are moving into the area which could have something to do with it as well. Dare I say it... Yuppie types... lol Then again I can't blame them though. I mean if I lived over there I wouldn't want to deal with the subway there either. They're right on the boarder where it gets a bit rough at.

 

Oh I don't blame em for taking the express either; I aint makin this an express bus vs subway thing... personally I despise beverly & cortelyou more than I do church on the brighton.... they beautify the subway entrance on those 2 stations, but the platforms themselves look like they aint been touched since the day of the flood.....

 

I've also noticed since they got rid of the 23, less ppl embark/disembark the 103 around there too, but that's neither here nor there...

 

Although I don't think that general area is dense.... As far as new ppl. moving into the area, I actually haven't thought of that.... That sounds plausible to me; and yeah I would also classify the folks walking around that part of cortelyou as yuppies... There is a clear distinction to where they're yuppifying cortelyou rd, and where quite frankly, the other half of that stretch of the road, remains to resemble a dump... As grim as this sounds, this new influx of ppl. can be buyin up those homes in kensington/victorian f'bush the old folks that died off once owned....

 

I would go further, but I don't want to have to be subjected to seeing a bunch of demographical stats.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Oh I don't blame em for taking the express either; I aint makin this an express bus vs subway thing... personally I despise beverly & cortelyou more than I do church on the brighton.... they beautify the subway entrance on those 2 stations, but the platforms themselves look like they aint been touched since the day of the flood.....

 

I've also noticed since they got rid of the 23, less ppl embark/disembark the 103 around there too, but that's neither here nor there...

 

Although I don't think that general area is dense.... As far as new ppl. moving into the area, I actually haven't thought of that.... That sounds plausible to me; and yeah I would also classify the folks walking around that part of cortelyou as yuppies... There is a clear distinction to where they're yuppifying cortelyou rd, and where quite frankly, the other half of that stretch of the road, remains to resemble a dump... As grim as this sounds, this new influx of ppl. can be buyin up those homes in kensington/victorian f'bush the old folks that died off once owned....

 

I would go further, but I don't want to have to be subjected to seeing a bunch of demographical stats.....

 

Yeah I've actually used those stations as well and I can't for the life of me understand why they can't keep those platforms (the walls in particular) looking better. But yeah, I do observe when riding and I often say to myself these folks could really take the subway but they clearly don't want to and to me it seems like more of a stigma than the fact that from there they can get to the city faster which one clearly can from there. That's just the vibe that I pick up. lol As for the density of the area, I would get the feeling that some live in homes and some could live in apartments, so it could be a mix, but yes in the immediate area it is mainly homes. As you know pockets of Kensington are well to do though and is becoming pricier so the spike in ridership that you see there doesn't surprise me for some of the reasons I mentioned.

 

As for the stats... lol... But relating this back to Queens and the QM20, I would not at all be surprised if stigma wasn't part of it as well as the time factor. I mean there are just certain areas that are more suburban in nature and are more suited for things like express buses and folks really would rather not deal with the subway even if the bus takes longer. In this case though it would be quicker for them.

[Bounad Hanhic]

Yeah I've actually used those stations as well and I can't for the life of me understand why they can't keep those platforms (the walls in particular) looking better. But yeah, I do observe when riding and I often say to myself these folks could really take the subway but they clearly don't want to and to me it seems like more of a stigma than the fact that from there they can get to the city faster which one clearly can from there. That's just the vibe that I pick up. lol As for the density of the area, I would get the feeling that some live in homes and some could live in apartments, so it could be a mix, but yes in the immediate area it is mainly homes. As you know pockets of Kensington are well to do though and is becoming pricier so the spike in ridership that you see there doesn't surprise me for some of the reasons I mentioned.

 

As for the stats... lol... But relating this back to Queens and the QM20, I would not at all be surprised if stigma wasn't part of it as well as the time factor. I mean there are just certain areas that are more suburban in nature and are more suited for things like express buses and folks really would rather not deal with the subway even if the bus takes longer. In this case though it would be quicker for them.

 

In Northeast Queens there is not a widespread stigma issue. The parts of Queens where there are the biggest stigma on Queens Express buses is with the ex-TCC Express routes. Their views include how the Subway is so bad and filthy and the Express bus drivers out of LGA Depot are so great etc. On these lines there is also more of a social group culture than in our lines (the QM2/QM20).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

In Northeast Queens there is not a widespread stigma issue. The parts of Queens where there are the biggest stigma on Queens Express buses is with the ex-TCC Express routes. Their views include how the Subway is so bad and filthy and the Express bus drivers out of LGA Depot are so great etc. On these lines there is also more of a social group culture than in our lines (the QM2/QM20).

 

LOL... So I would imagine that those routes must have weekend service too no?

[Bounad Hanhic]

LOL... So I would imagine that those routes must have weekend service too no?

 

The ex-TCC routes do not have weekend service, service before 6:15 AM (QM24) on weekdays or service past 7:10 PM (3rd Avenue QM12) on weekdays. Midday service did exist until 2010 on the QM10 and QM12 but was thinned out and the only true midday trips that exist are a 10:00 QM10 and QM12 to Manhattan. The QM24 is the strongest of these routes with about 1,200 riders each weekdays. For your information the QM10 has about 370/weekday, QM11 about 430/weekday, QM12 about 510/weekday, and the QM25 about 280/weekday. However, they do not have strong political influence as does Eastern Bronx or Southern Brooklyn. In fact, the riders on these lines care more about their social cliques than about service. Among the biggest complaint that you would hear from them around 2009 was that they did not want CP drivers on their buses when CP got the QM10 and QM11.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The ex-TCC routes do not have weekend service, service before 6:15 AM (QM24) on weekdays or service past 7:10 PM (3rd Avenue QM12) on weekdays. Midday service did exist until 2010 on the QM10 and QM12 but was thinned out and the only true midday trips that exist are a 10:00 QM10 and QM12 to Manhattan. The QM24 is the strongest of these routes with about 1,200 riders each weekdays. For your information the QM10 has about 370/weekday, QM11 about 430/weekday, QM12 about 510/weekday, and the QM25 about 280/weekday. However, they do not have strong political influence as does Eastern Bronx or Southern Brooklyn. In fact, the riders on these lines care more about their social cliques than about service. Among the biggest complaint that you would hear from them around 2009 was that they did not want CP drivers on their buses when CP got the QM10 and QM11.

 

Interesting... Explains a lot. I was talking to some BM3 riders on Saturday when I was head back to the city from Sheepshea Bay about how they use the service and so on to see if I could get support for having some of the lost Saturday service to Manhattan restored and one problem may exist is that you have some immigrants using the bus now that clearly don't speak English so even if they don't want the service cuts, they don't speak enough English to let the voices be heard so they are basically without a voice which sucks royally. There was a Russian lady at my stop along with another woman who was originally from Canarsie but now comes down to Sheepshead Bay from Upstate somewhere to visit family on Saturdays and she hates the cuts. The Russian lady also seemed to be unhappy but she clearly didn't speak much English. I've heard others complain too but no one seems to be writing in. I think ridership would be much higher on Saturdays if the economy wasn't in such bad shape because there is certainly a climate for the riders with the new condos there on Emmons Avenue.

 

Anywho, in your case how vocal do you think folks will be and also how do you guys plan on pitching this extenstion to the ? It would more than likely have to be cost neutral in order for them to consider extending the QM20.

[qjtransitmaster]

The ex-TCC routes do not have weekend service, service before 6:15 AM (QM24) on weekdays or service past 7:10 PM (3rd Avenue QM12) on weekdays. Midday service did exist until 2010 on the QM10 and QM12 but was thinned out and the only true midday trips that exist are a 10:00 QM10 and QM12 to Manhattan. The QM24 is the strongest of these routes with about 1,200 riders each weekdays. For your information the QM10 has about 370/weekday, QM11 about 430/weekday, QM12 about 510/weekday, and the QM25 about 280/weekday. However, they do not have strong political influence as does Eastern Bronx or Southern Brooklyn. In fact, the riders on these lines care more about their social cliques than about service. Among the biggest complaint that you would hear from them around 2009 was that they did not want CP drivers on their buses when CP got the QM10 and QM11.

You know what is crazy about your petition is I had a dream about QM20 being a downtown only version of the QM2 Via timed transfers at the final stop. when I spoke with steve kressler I showed him parts of my express proposal which does include QM20 going to downtown while off peak routing on other express buses modifys to more direct routes. So there is support for that after all. example off peak QM5 reroutes to use LIE to rego park and follow QM10 routing bypassing union tpk. The other is open door transfer stops at rego park off peak only for those to choose between midtown or downtown express service. and maybe other parts of manhattan I will sign the petition and even come out at your meetings.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

will sign the petition and even come out at your meetings.

 

lol... I'm shocked... :eek:

[Bounad Hanhic]

lol... I'm shocked... :eek:

 

We are getting ready to finalize who is coming out on those dates and we will still be more than happy to squeeze anyone in.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

We are getting ready to finalize who is coming out on those dates and we will still be more than happy to squeeze anyone in.

 

LOL... I'm just not sure you want to squeeze just "anyone" in... Hint hint...

[Bounad Hanhic]

LOL... I'm just not sure you want to squeeze just "anyone" in... Hint hint...

 

understood

[qjtransitmaster]

understood

 

Dont underestimate me I have saw the QM20's routing and I have taken express buses in queens before. also You haven't saw what I suggested nor has anyone here saw it so don't listen to everything u hear