Volunteers needed to assist us in expanding "QM20" Express bus service to Lower Manhattan

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Have you even taken a look at the map? Anyone traveling to Wall Street will have a FASTER commute. And because most of the "Wall Street" jobs are located along or close to Water Street, it's less walking. The only people that this inconveniences are people who work near Canal Street, Worth Street, or Chambers Street, and that's north of what's considered to be the Downtown Financial District.

 

I've looked at the map... Your re-route is nothing more than a Downtown Loop at best. In fact that's exactly what it is. The problem with your proposal is for the "faster commute", they'll loose all of it having to schlepp to and from the BxM18 if they don't work along or close to Water Street. You also don't seem to realize the time that would be lost going along 34th street to get to the FDR, as 34th street crawls for most of the day. Furthermore, having the BxM18 do a Downtown Loop only adds more congestion along Trinity street with all of the Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island express buses that currently do Downtown Loops, in the morning. I'm speaking about this from experience, not to be difficult. As for your other comment, I'm well aware of where most of the Wall Street jobs are, as some of my clients are some of the companies that took handouts and yes they're either near Water Street or by the WTC.

[checkmatechamp13]

I've looked at the map... Your re-route is nothing more than a Downtown Loop at best. In fact that's exactly what it is. The problem with your proposal is for the "faster commute", they'll loose all of it having to schlepp to and from the BxM18 if they don't work along or close to Water Street. You also don't seem to realize the time that would be lost going along 34th street to get to the FDR, as 34th street crawls for most of the day. Furthermore, having the BxM18 do a Downtown Loop only adds more congestion along Trinity street with all of the Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island express buses that currently do Downtown Loops, in the morning. I'm speaking about this from experience, not to be difficult. As for your other comment, I'm well aware of where most of the Wall Street jobs are, as some of my clients are some of the companies that took handouts and yes they're either near Water Street or by the WTC.

 

 

Yeah, and right now they have to "schlepp" all the way to Church Street/Broadway if they do work near Water Street (which as Gorgor said, does go all the way to Water Street. And seeing as he lives on the UES, I think he knows his stuff) You even admitted that you have clients near Water Street.

 

And right now, the BxM18 does use Trinity Place, so all that crap about congestion makes no sense.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah, and right now they have to "schlepp" all the way to Church Street/Broadway if they do work near Water Street (which as Gorgor said, does go all the way to Water Street. And seeing as he lives on the UES, I think he knows his stuff) You even admitted that you have clients near Water Street.

 

And right now, the BxM18 does use Trinity Place, so all that crap about congestion makes no sense.

 

 

Yes, going Northbound it does, but the traffic congestion in the evening is NOT the same. Do I have to explain why too??

 

Second, if that many people were schlepping from Water Street to get to the BxM18 folks would've made a stink by now, so I don't buy that. I personally wanted to see the BxM1 and BxM2 extended further Downtown, but quite frankly there really isn't a demand for it, so I decided to leave it alone. As I said before, the BxM18 is FINE the way it is. Stop trying to tell us about our service. We know what we need. Thank you.

[checkmatechamp13]

It's one bus every 15 minutes. Is it really going to make a huge difference in congestion along the street (and yes, I know why. Because more buses run northbound in the morning and southbound in the afternoon because you have the Queens loops, plus the SI routes and X27/28)?

 

As far as going to Water Street, that financial district is all between Water Street and Broadway, so you're going to have a few who get an easier trip, and a few who get a harder trip, but for most part, the impact will be small. I mean, the distance from Water Street to Broadway is fairly short (Google Maps says 6 minutes. I've walked it and maybe it takes a little longer because of the crowds and construction in some areas, but it's not a long walk by any means). And that's probably why the people aren't complaining if they work by Water Street: Because it's less than a 10 minute walk and then you sit back on the express bus for an hour.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It's one bus every 15 minutes. Is it really going to make a huge difference in congestion along the street (and yes, I know why. Because more buses run northbound in the morning and southbound in the afternoon because you have the Queens loops, plus the SI routes and X27/28)?

 

As far as going to Water Street, that financial district is all between Water Street and Broadway, so you're going to have a few who get an easier trip, and a few who get a harder trip, but for most part, the impact will be small. I mean, the distance from Water Street to Broadway is fairly short (Google Maps says 6 minutes. I've walked it and maybe it takes a little longer because of the crowds and construction in some areas, but it's not a long walk by any means). And that's probably why the people aren't complaining if they work by Water Street: Because it's less than a 10 minute walk and then you sit back on the express bus for an hour.

 

 

You really annoy me with that you know. You're going to sit here and tell me that you know where the ridership comes from on the BxM18??? How do you know that only a few people would be inconvienced??? Based on what facts???

 

As for your comment about congestion, etc. in addition to fewer buses in the evening, people also leave the office at different times. In any event, this is all immaterial because as I said before BxM18 riders are fine with the route the way it is, so just stop with these ridiculous suggestions already. If we're unhappy with the routing, we'll let the MTA know believe me.

[checkmatechamp13]

You really annoy me with that you know. You're going to sit here and tell me that you know where the ridership comes from on the BxM18??? How do you know that only a few people would be inconvienced??? Based on what facts???

 

As for your comment about congestion, etc. in addition to fewer buses in the evening, people also leave the office at different times. In any event, this is all immaterial because as I said before BxM18 riders are fine with the route the way it is, so just stop with these ridiculous suggestions already. If we're unhappy with the routing, we'll let the MTA know believe me.

 

 

You said a lot of Wall Street people use the BxM18. Wall Street runs between Broadway and Water Street (Yes, I know they might not necessarily work on Wall Street, but they work in the Financial District). How do I know only a few people would be inconvenienced? Based on you saying that a lot of people work in the Financial District, which is served regardless of whether the BxM18 runs on Broadway or Water Street.

 

And what does people leaving at different times in the afternoon have to do with anything?

 

And there's a difference between something not working better than the current pattern and being a "ridiculous suggestion". "Ridiculous suggestions" are some of QJT's ideas. This is just a reasonable suggestion that might not work any better than the current plan, but you act like it would make things 10 times worse.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You said a lot of Wall Street people use the BxM18. Wall Street runs between Broadway and Water Street (Yes, I know they might not necessarily work on Wall Street, but they work in the Financial District). How do I know only a few people would be inconvenienced? Based on you saying that a lot of people work in the Financial District, which is served regardless of whether the BxM18 runs on Broadway or Water Street.

 

That statement is ridiculous and you know it. If more Riverdale customers are inconvenienced by moving the bus to Water Street then you are doing nothing but making their commute more inconvenient, which could lead to fewer people using the bus. In fact, the MTA re-routed the BxM2 Northbound to Riverdale for this very reason.

 

http://www.mta.info/...17_1045_bus.pdf

See attached PDF file (pages 52 - 56)

 

If the MTA is competent enough to understand that making a route more inconvenient to get to hurts ridership, then I don't know what you're smoking that this isn't clear to you. As I said before, Riverdale riders have no issues with the BxM18. You're the one who seems to be persistent about pushing the issue.

 

The route was created to serve Riverdale riders before any other community, so Bay Terrace is more or less an afterthought in the scheme of things. They need their own Downtown route, period and even Bounad Hanhic agrees. Having Queens express bus commuters connect to a Bronx express bus is just dumb anyway when you consider that Queens and Bronx express buses run on totally different schedules. BxM18 Riverdale riders already deal with the transfers from the Bronx and Queens which slow down their commute, so we've given in enough already. It's okay to make suggestions, but stop trying to force this nonsense down our throats already. We are not responsible for the commutes of folks in Queens. That's their problem, not ours. Give it a rest already. I support them fighting to get their service to Downtown, but we are not obligated to have our service screwed up just to suit their needs, when we are fine with the routing as it is. You're determined to sit here and preach to me about what our community needs when you don't live here. Talk about nerve. The BxM18 reads RIVERDALE, 263 ST, not BAY TERRACE.

 

And what does people leaving at different times in the afternoon have to do with anything?

 

Use common sense. You answered your own question in a previous thread and now suddenly you don't understand???

[Gorgor]

That statement is ridiculous and you know it. If more Riverdale customers are inconvenienced by moving the bus to Water Street then you are doing nothing but making their commute more inconvenient, which could lead to fewer people using the bus. In fact, the MTA re-routed the BxM2 Northbound to Riverdale for this very reason.

 

http://www.mta.info/...17_1045_bus.pdf

See attached PDF file (pages 52 - 56)

 

If the MTA is competent enough to understand that making a route more inconvenient to get to hurts ridership, then I don't know what you're smoking that this isn't clear to you. As I said before, Riverdale riders have no issues with the BxM18. You're the one who seems to be persistent about pushing the issue.

 

The route was created to serve Riverdale riders before any other community, so Bay Terrace is more or less an afterthought in the scheme of things. They need their own Downtown route, period and even Bounad Hanhic agrees. Having Queens express bus commuters connect to a Bronx express bus is just dumb anyway when you consider that Queens and Bronx express buses run on totally different schedules. BxM18 Riverdale riders already deal with the transfers from the Bronx and Queens which slow down their commute, so we've given in enough already. It's okay to make suggestions, but stop trying to force this nonsense down our throats already. We are not responsible for the commutes of folks in Queens. That's their problem, not ours. Give it a rest already. I support them fighting to get their service to Downtown, but we are not obligated to have our service screwed up just to suit their needs, when we are fine with the routing as it is. You're determined to sit here and preach to me about what our community needs when you don't live here. Talk about nerve. The BxM18 reads RIVERDALE, 263 ST, not BAY TERRACE.

 

 

 

Use common sense. You answered your own question in a previous thread and now suddenly you don't understand???

 

 

Ok, you know what? I'm SORRY for making a suggestion that gives Wall Street riders a 10+ minute faster commute. I must be completely stoned because any suggestion to your precious bus route, even if it does save people time, is bad and inconvenient.

 

You should read what you've been writing and how you constantly contradict yourself. You say how many people use it to get to Midtown, which is unaffected. Then you say that it should primarily serve Wall Street, which it will get to 10+ minutes faster. Oh, I see. It's inconveniencing you because you'll have to deal with that scum from Queens because they'll have a 15+ minute faster commute and that's helping them more than it'll be helping you.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ok, you know what? I'm SORRY for making a suggestion that gives Wall Street riders a 10+ minute faster commute. I must be completely stoned because any suggestion to your precious bus route, even if it does save people time, is bad and inconvenient.

 

You should read what you've been writing and how you constantly contradict yourself. You say how many people use it to get to Midtown, which is unaffected. Then you say that it should primarily serve Wall Street, which it will get to 10+ minutes faster. Oh, I see. It's inconveniencing you because you'll have to deal with that scum from Queens because they'll have a 15+ minute faster commute and that's helping them more than it'll be helping you.

 

 

Uh... No... Queens AND Bronx express bus riders already transfer to the route, so your comment is pretty much immaterial. The point that I made was that Queens express buses are scheduled to run at different times from Bronx express buses so it would make more sense to have to give QM20 riders direct Downtown service. Even with your proposal it doesn't necessarily solve the problem of having buses serve the needs of QM20 riders that work in the financial district that need to be in to work early in the morning. You would have to run BxM18s earlier and perhaps even adjust the schedule to make the bus convenient for QM20 riders. Combine that with the potential of inconveniencing BxM18 riders AND other Bronx express bus riders, and the whole thing makes no sense. Your proposal would re-route one route which would affect all of the Bronx express bus routes for one express bus route in another borough. It has NOTHING to do with disliking Queens folks, so you can leave your elitist claims at the door because we already share the express bus with folks from Queens and the Bronx.

 

Also, there is no guarantee that your re-route would be any faster than the current set up. The FDR can back up too, and by the time you make your way from 34th street over to the FDR the time you saved could be eaten up on 34th st and the FDR drive. You act like the FDR drive isn't prone to traffic delays.

 

Ok, I tell you what, since you seem to think that I'm so stubborn, what if a few BxM18 runs used that routing as a test? Im not being difficult, I'm simply talking from experience. I've used the FDR for years via the express bus and I've also used express buses that don't use the FDR and the time savings is often times minimal if any.

[checkmatechamp13]

That statement is ridiculous and you know it. If more Riverdale customers are inconvenienced by moving the bus to Water Street then you are doing nothing but making their commute more inconvenient, which could lead to fewer people using the bus. In fact, the MTA re-routed the BxM2 Northbound to Riverdale for this very reason.

 

http://www.mta.info/...17_1045_bus.pdf

See attached PDF file (pages 52 - 56)

 

If the MTA is competent enough to understand that making a route more inconvenient to get to hurts ridership, then I don't know what you're smoking that this isn't clear to you. As I said before, Riverdale riders have no issues with the BxM18. You're the one who seems to be persistent about pushing the issue.

 

The route was created to serve Riverdale riders before any other community, so Bay Terrace is more or less an afterthought in the scheme of things. They need their own Downtown route, period and even Bounad Hanhic agrees. Having Queens express bus commuters connect to a Bronx express bus is just dumb anyway when you consider that Queens and Bronx express buses run on totally different schedules. BxM18 Riverdale riders already deal with the transfers from the Bronx and Queens which slow down their commute, so we've given in enough already. It's okay to make suggestions, but stop trying to force this nonsense down our throats already. We are not responsible for the commutes of folks in Queens. That's their problem, not ours. Give it a rest already. I support them fighting to get their service to Downtown, but we are not obligated to have our service screwed up just to suit their needs, when we are fine with the routing as it is. You're determined to sit here and preach to me about what our community needs when you don't live here. Talk about nerve. The BxM18 reads RIVERDALE, 263 ST, not BAY TERRACE.

 

Use common sense. You answered your own question in a previous thread and now suddenly you don't understand???

 

Yeah, if it causes inconvenience, which the worse it'll do is add a 5 minute walk to their trip, and in a best-case scenario, it'll save them 5 minutes of walking plus the time saved on the FDR Drive. That's different from the BxM2 where you're talking about having to cross the entire park to reach the bus (or take a bus up Madison Avenue to connect to it).

 

And yeah, everybody knows that making a bus route more inconvenient hurts ridership, but there's nothing saying that it's the case here.

 

And what the hell are you talking about? I specifically mentioned that this has nothing to do with the QM20.

 

And no, I didn't answer my own question in another thread. I stated that the AM rush is more concentrated than the PM rush and that it has to do with people's different work schedules, but that has nothing to do with Queens riders or Bronx riders or anything like that.

 

Uh... No... Queens AND Bronx express bus riders already transfer to the route, so your comment is pretty much immaterial. The point that I made was that Queens express buses are scheduled to run at different times from Bronx express buses so it would make more sense to have to give QM20 riders direct Downtown service. Even with your proposal it doesn't necessarily solve the problem of having buses serve the needs of QM20 riders that work in the financial district that need to be in to work early in the morning. You would have to run BxM18s earlier and perhaps even adjust the schedule to make the bus convenient for QM20 riders. Combine that with the potential of inconveniencing BxM18 riders AND other Bronx express bus riders, and the whole thing makes no sense. Your proposal would re-route one route which would affect all of the Bronx express bus routes for one express bus route in another borough. It has NOTHING to do with disliking Queens folks, so you can leave your elitist claims at the door because we already share the express bus with folks from Queens and the Bronx.

 

Also, there is no guarantee that your re-route would be any faster than the current set up. The FDR can back up too, and by the time you make your way from 34th street over to the FDR the time you saved could be eaten up on 34th st and the FDR drive. You act like the FDR drive isn't prone to traffic delays.

 

Ok, I tell you what, since you seem to think that I'm so stubborn, what if a few BxM18 runs used that routing as a test? Im not being difficult, I'm simply talking from experience. I've used the FDR for years via the express bus and I've also used express buses that don't use the FDR and the time savings is often times minimal if any.

 

What the hell are you talking about? We said repeatedly that the purpose isn't just for QM20 riders. It's for all Queens and Bronx riders, including Riverdale riders.

 

And just because people don't complain doesn't mean that the routing is the best routing. There is a huge gap in service in my area, and very few people have complained, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be filled, and that having a route down there would hurt people in the area or anything.

[qjtransitmaster]

Wow I take a break and this mess begins CALM down ppl let me end this crap I NEVER SAID bxm2 is redundant!!! I said it's east side stops are due to the presense of bxm1 plus the bxm18 doesn't need midtown as bxm1 is for that. GORGOR you do realize most of queens has direct downtown service right let QM25 have transfer stop for woodhaven express buses. Let Qm11 have connection with X63/68 and then let QM20 Be a downtown branch of QM2. quens ppl do not need the BXM18. Let queens have it's own express buses bxm18 doesn't need to serve queens folk it can improve or be forced to do so due to additional ridership attracted to it's faster route due to going through yorkville then super express from 63rd st southbound northbound 34 or 42nd this way it serves bronx folk better plus the new yorkville stops may add ridership to other BXM lines. The reason why QM service near the LIRR is so awful is one during off-peak there is no chance in hell that they would even attract ridership at all cause the cost one way is about the same 25 cent difference is a small premium to speed up ur ride. Forget weekend service cause LIRR IS CHEAPER WHAT WOULD U USE slow $5.50 bus or $3.75 cityticket for fast LIRR?? nuff said I should never have even brought it up I take a break then this mess starts cmon.

[qjtransitmaster]

Via 8 I am actually shocked I agree mostly with your post #146

[Gorgor]

Wow I take a break and this mess begins CALM down ppl let me end this crap I NEVER SAID bxm2 is redundant!!! I said it's east side stops are due to the presense of bxm1 plus the bxm18 doesn't need midtown as bxm1 is for that. GORGOR you do realize most of queens has direct downtown service right let QM25 have transfer stop for woodhaven express buses. Let Qm11 have connection with X63/68 and then let QM20 Be a downtown branch of QM2. quens ppl do not need the BXM18. Let queens have it's own express buses bxm18 doesn't need to serve queens folk it can improve or be forced to do so due to additional ridership attracted to it's faster route due to going through yorkville then super express from 63rd st southbound northbound 34 or 42nd this way it serves bronx folk better plus the new yorkville stops may add ridership to other BXM lines. The reason why QM service near the LIRR is so awful is one during off-peak there is no chance in hell that they would even attract ridership at all cause the cost one way is about the same 25 cent difference is a small premium to speed up ur ride. Forget weekend service cause LIRR IS CHEAPER WHAT WOULD U USE slow $5.50 bus or $3.75 cityticket for fast LIRR?? nuff said I should never have even brought it up I take a break then this mess starts cmon.

 

 

Ok, for once you actually mentioned something good. (Not that BxM18 idea). All the Queens express buses pass through Woodhaven Blvd right before they get on the LIE (besides the 2, 3, 20)? If they could set up a transfer point between the QM7, QM8, QM11, and the other Queens Express buses that come from Queens Boulevard, and have the QM2, QM3, and QM20 exit the LIE, left onto Woodhaven Blvd, transfer point, then get back on, it would solve the problem. In the afternoon the transfer point would be on Queens Boulevard right after the exit ramp. Then on the other right north of Eliot Ave on Woodhaven Blvd, there would be a transfer between the QM25 and the QM15, QM16, QM17, BM5.

 

This would only give QM2, QM3, and QM20 riders access to downtown during the AM rush, but it would provide every single other Queens express bus rider access to downtown with minimal service disruptions. This would only delay QM2, QM3, and QM20 buses by 3-4 minutes due to exiting and reentering the highway, but it's worth it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah, if it causes inconvenience, which the worse it'll do is add a 5 minute walk to their trip, and in a best-case scenario, it'll save them 5 minutes of walking plus the time saved on the FDR Drive. That's different from the BxM2 where you're talking about having to cross the entire park to reach the bus (or take a bus up Madison Avenue to connect to it).

 

And yeah, everybody knows that making a bus route more inconvenient hurts ridership, but there's nothing saying that it's the case here.

 

There is no IF. It will hurt ridership. Riverdale has a large elderly and disabled population and this change would most certainly cause them more than 5 minutes. Again, you know nothing about our community to go making suggestions as to how our bus routes should be. I see the folks in wheelchairs and folks with canes and such boarding the express buses daily. There are a few individuals on my BxM18 at night that are disabled, so this is NOT a good change. Unlike the folks on Staten Island, here in Riverdale, we are more vocal about our community. Hell the same can be said about most of the Bronx when it comes to transit, so like I said, if the BxM18 was a big problem, people would make their voice heard.

 

And what the hell are you talking about? I specifically mentioned that this has nothing to do with the QM20.

 

And no, I didn't answer my own question in another thread. I stated that the AM rush is more concentrated than the PM rush and that it has to do with people's different work schedules, but that has nothing to do with Queens riders or Bronx riders or anything like that.

 

In case you forgot the thread is supposed to be about the QM20... And yes, you did answer your own question, which you just choose to change now. In addition to what you've stated about the AM rush being more concentrated, the other thing is that since people leave at different times, the congestion can be lower than the AM rush.

 

 

What the hell are you talking about? We said repeatedly that the purpose isn't just for QM20 riders. It's for all Queens and Bronx riders, including Riverdale riders.

 

And just because people don't complain doesn't mean that the routing is the best routing. There is a huge gap in service in my area, and very few people have complained, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be filled, and that having a route down there would hurt people in the area or anything.

 

 

Yeah and that's because Staten Islanders in general are complacent about complaining which is another reason I left. They whine and moan, but they get nothing done and have very little pull politically, so your point about very few people complaining on Staten Island is a moot one. Even you repeatedly claim that Staten Island's service for its population is okay, which is certainly inaccurate, so please. We're just fine with our service the way it is here in Riverdale. THANK YOU. Give it a rest already.

 

 

 

Wow I take a break and this mess begins CALM down ppl let me end this crap I NEVER SAID bxm2 is redundant!!! I said it's east side stops are due to the presense of bxm1 plus the bxm18 doesn't need midtown as bxm1 is for that. GORGOR you do realize most of queens has direct downtown service right let QM25 have transfer stop for woodhaven express buses. Let Qm11 have connection with X63/68 and then let QM20 Be a downtown branch of QM2. quens ppl do not need the BXM18. Let queens have it's own express buses bxm18 doesn't need to serve queens folk it can improve or be forced to do so due to additional ridership attracted to it's faster route due to going through yorkville then super express from 63rd st southbound northbound 34 or 42nd this way it serves bronx folk better plus the new yorkville stops may add ridership to other BXM lines. The reason why QM service near the LIRR is so awful is one during off-peak there is no chance in hell that they would even attract ridership at all cause the cost one way is about the same 25 cent difference is a small premium to speed up ur ride. Forget weekend service cause LIRR IS CHEAPER WHAT WOULD U USE slow $5.50 bus or $3.75 cityticket for fast LIRR?? nuff said I should never have even brought it up I take a break then this mess starts cmon.

 

 

What is up with you and Gorgor with this Yorkvillle nonsense?? Folks using the express bus want 5th Avenue or areas around 5th Avenue due to its central location. They are not interested in Yorkville, unless they're in Riverdale and even then they're more interested in the Upper East Side (from 3rd to 6th Avenue roughly, hence why the BxM2s stops along Madison are not duplicates, as 3rd Avenue is more of a schlepp to get to for the BxM1 for one coming from say 6th Avenue).

[checkmatechamp13]

The reason why QM service near the LIRR is so awful is one during off-peak there is no chance in hell that they would even attract ridership at all cause the cost one way is about the same 25 cent difference is a small premium to speed up ur ride. Forget weekend service cause LIRR IS CHEAPER WHAT WOULD U USE slow $5.50 bus or $3.75 cityticket for fast LIRR?? nuff said I should never have even brought it up I take a break then this mess starts cmon.

 

 

I didn't realize the LIRR offered free transfers. Nor did I realize it served East Midtown.

 

1) There is no IF. It will hurt ridership. Riverdale has a large elderly and disabled population and this change would most certainly cause them more than 5 minutes. Again, you know nothing about our community to go making suggestions as to how our bus routes should be. I see the folks in wheelchairs and folks with canes and such boarding the express buses daily. There are a few individuals on my BxM18 at night that are disabled, so this is NOT a good change. Unlike the folks on Staten Island, here in Riverdale, we are more vocal about our community. Hell the same can be said about most of the Bronx when it comes to transit, so like I said, if the BxM18 was a big problem, people would make their voice heard.

 

2) In case you forgot the thread is supposed to be about the QM20... And yes, you did answer your own question, which you just choose to change now. In addition to what you've stated about the AM rush being more concentrated, the other thing is that since people leave at different times, the congestion can be lower than the AM rush.

 

3) Yeah and that's because Staten Islanders in general are complacent about complaining which is another reason I left. They whine and moan, but they get nothing done and have very little pull politically, so your point about very few people complaining on Staten Island is a moot one. Even you repeatedly claim that Staten Island's service for its population is okay, which is certainly inaccurate, so please. We're just fine with our service the way it is here in Riverdale. THANK YOU. Give it a rest already.

 

4) What is up with you and Gorgor with this Yorkvillle nonsense?? Folks using the express bus want 5th Avenue or areas around 5th Avenue due to its central location. They are not interested in Yorkville, unless they're in Riverdale and even then they're more interested in the Upper East Side (from 3rd to 6th Avenue roughly, hence why the BxM2s stops along Madison are not duplicates, as 3rd Avenue is more of a schlepp to get to for the BxM1 for one coming from say 6th Avenue).

 

 

1) Yeah, but how do you know what their ultimate destination is? They could be getting off in Lower Manhattan and taking a taxi for the last few blocks, but they're not complaining because the BxM18 gets them close enough to their destination. Plus, how do you know there aren't people who work by Water Street who you're not seeing because they don't take the bus because it doesn't bring them close enough.

 

And besides, if the bus gets rerouted via a Downtown Loop, it would serve the western part of the Financial District anyway (by going on Church Street). Actually, now that I think about it, there's no service from Riverdale to the World Financial Center, so the BxM18 could be routed that way if traffic is a real issue on Trinity Place.

 

2) C'mon. You know threads always end up getting off-topic here.

 

3) Yeah, I said it's OK. I never said it was perfect.

 

And you're missing my point. There could be a need for something and people just don't complain. Even in your beloved Riverdale, I'm sure there are people who are content with the way it is. They might say "Well, going via the FDR Drive would make my commute a little shorter, but I see a lot of people getting off on Broadway, and it's close enough to my job that it doesn't make a difference". And besides, how many of them are transit nerds like the people on this forum? They might not know that the MTA has a lot of buses making a Downtown Loop, or the fact that the MTA has buses to the World Financial Center and so they figure why bother.

 

4) It's only him, not Gorgor.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) Yeah, but how do you know what their ultimate destination is? They could be getting off in Lower Manhattan and taking a taxi for the last few blocks, but they're not complaining because the BxM18 gets them close enough to their destination. Plus, how do you know there aren't people who work by Water Street who you're not seeing because they don't take the bus because it doesn't bring them close enough.

 

And besides, if the bus gets rerouted via a Downtown Loop, it would serve the western part of the Financial District anyway (by going on Church Street). Actually, now that I think about it, there's no service from Riverdale to the World Financial Center, so the BxM18 could be routed that way if traffic is a real issue on Trinity Place.

 

Listen, sometimes you just have to accept things the way they are. When I first moved to Riverdale, I was thinking about coming up with a proposal to have the BxM1 and BxM2 extended further south down to 23rd street, as I have to transfer to a local bus when I need to go further south, but in the overall scheme of things, it isn't worth it considering what good service we have. I've studied all three lines (BxM1, BxM2 & the BxM18) and I'd rather keep service the way that it is rather than mess with it and have service cut. The MTA did a nice job with the routes and the schedules. I have spoken with several riders and they all comment on how good the service is overall and I would have to agree. Aside from my mishap last week with the BxM18 bypassing my stop (which I should get rectified Monday when I stop at 347 Madison), I am very pleased with the service.

 

3) Yeah, I said it's OK. I never said it was perfect.

 

LOL... Yeah right and then you commented about folks know what they're getting when they moved to Staten Island and how they should move to the city if they have such issues with the service. How quickly we forget...

 

And you're missing my point. There could be a need for something and people just don't complain. Even in your beloved Riverdale, I'm sure there are people who are content with the way it is. They might say "Well, going via the FDR Drive would make my commute a little shorter, but I see a lot of people getting off on Broadway, and it's close enough to my job that it doesn't make a difference". And besides, how many of them are transit nerds like the people on this forum? They might not know that the MTA has a lot of buses making a Downtown Loop, or the fact that the MTA has buses to the World Financial Center and so they figure why bother.

 

Yes and that's exactly the point I'm making. I'd love to not have to make stupid stops in Inwood on the weekends using the BxM1 for example, but it is what it is. Nothing is perfect and like I said, overall, we're very pleased with the service. I can live with the small things when my buses show up on time, drivers are courteous and don't give attitude and the buses have AC and are relatively clean. That's a huge improvement over Staten Island right there, not to mention that the service is far better in terms of how late we get service.

 

4) It's only him, not Gorgor.

 

 

You keep forgetting that this isn't the first time that we've talked about re-routing the BxM18 via Yorkville and previously it was Gorgor and quagmire suggesting it.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) LOL... Yeah right and then you commented about folks know what they're getting when they moved to Staten Island and how they should move to the city if they have such issues with the service. How quickly we forget...

 

2) Yes and that's exactly the point I'm making. I'd love to not have to make stupid stops in Inwood on the weekends using the BxM1 for example, but it is what it is. Nothing is perfect and like I said, overall, we're very pleased with the service. I can live with the small things when my buses show up on time, drivers are courteous and don't give attitude and the buses have AC and are relatively clean. That's a huge improvement over Staten Island right there, not to mention that the service is far better in terms of how late we get service.

 

3) You keep forgetting that this isn't the first time that we've talked about re-routing the BxM18 via Yorkville and previously it was Gorgor and quagmire suggesting it.

 

 

1) There's a difference between being okay and being perfect. If it were perfect, there wouldn't have been a need for me to make my proposals. And I'm not just referring to the S93 proposal, but to other proposals as well (S54 to St. George, weekend service on the S54 and S66, etc) And even then, if all the service gaps were filled and service ran perfectly as scheduled and connections were perfect, there'd still be the issue of frequency. You can't expect a bus every 5 minutes if there simply isn't the demand for it. If you want 5 minute service, then you have to move to an area with 5 minute service.

 

Yeah, limited service on heavy routes is reasonable to ask for. Asking for scheduled service to show up on time is reasonable. Asking for basic service coverage is reasonable. Asking for additional service on routes that don't have the ridership to sustain additional service is unreasonable.

 

2) Yeah, but if it doesn't cost any extra money and would improve service overall, why not ask for it? Having the BxM1 bypass Inwood would make it harder for the few riders there to access the East Side. Having the BxM18 use the FDR Drive and then end at the World Financial Center would have no real impact. You'd have people who have a trip that's a little worse, but they'd be cancelled out by people with a better trip.

 

3) Well that's not now.

[qjtransitmaster]

Those who want midtown will use bxm1 yorkville and lower manhattan make bxm18 different. from bxm1 avoiding redundancy in midtown.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) There's a difference between being okay and being perfect. If it were perfect, there wouldn't have been a need for me to make my proposals. And I'm not just referring to the S93 proposal, but to other proposals as well (S54 to St. George, weekend service on the S54 and S66, etc) And even then, if all the service gaps were filled and service ran perfectly as scheduled and connections were perfect, there'd still be the issue of frequency. You can't expect a bus every 5 minutes if there simply isn't the demand for it. If you want 5 minute service, then you have to move to an area with 5 minute service.

 

Yeah, limited service on heavy routes is reasonable to ask for. Asking for scheduled service to show up on time is reasonable. Asking for basic service coverage is reasonable. Asking for additional service on routes that don't have the ridership to sustain additional service is unreasonable.

 

Yes we all know that there's a difference between being perfect and okay. And there's also a difference between asking for reasonable things and being a PITA.

 

2) Yeah, but if it doesn't cost any extra money and would improve service overall, why not ask for it? Having the BxM1 bypass Inwood would make it harder for the few riders there to access the East Side. Having the BxM18 use the FDR Drive and then end at the World Financial Center would have no real impact. You'd have people who have a trip that's a little worse, but they'd be cancelled out by people with a better trip.

 

Well this is interesting.... You are totally contradicting yourself as usual.

 

3) Well that's not now.

 

 

Ay yay yay... I'm done... Enough with the nitpicking already. This whole BxM18 conversation is nothing more than a continuation of that old thread.

 

Those who want midtown will use bxm1 yorkville and lower manhattan make bxm18 different. from bxm1 avoiding redundancy in midtown.

 

 

What in the world are you talking about???

[checkmatechamp13]

1) Yes we all know that there's a difference between being perfect and okay. And there's also a difference between asking for reasonable things and being a PITA.

 

2) Well this is interesting.... You are totally contradicting yourself as usual.

 

3) Ay yay yay... I'm done... Enough with the nitpicking already. This whole BxM18 conversation is nothing more than a continuation of that old thread.

 

 

1) Are you saying my SI ideas were just being a PITA? As for the BxM18, would it really hurt them to analyze the route to make sure it's taking the route that best serves its customers? For all we know, there are a bunch of people going to the area by Water Street and the WFC who would benefit from this, but are content with what the service as is. But if they can benefit at no extra cost, why not help them out?

 

2) Uh, no. That doesn't contradict anything I said (which I never do. You just like twisting my words around so it looks like it, and then when I explain it, you still say I'm contradicting myself)

 

3) Geez. I was just pointing it out.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) Are you saying my SI ideas were just being a PITA? As for the BxM18, would it really hurt them to analyze the route to make sure it's taking the route that best serves its customers? For all we know, there are a bunch of people going to the area by Water Street and the WFC who would benefit from this, but are content with what the service as is. But if they can benefit at no extra cost, why not help them out?

 

Listen we could start a whole thread about Bronx express bus riders and Riverdale express bus riders who may need downtown express bus service, but it is what it is. We're HAPPY with what we have. Give it a rest already!! You just can't rest without trying to prove your point as the correct one.

 

2) Uh, no. That doesn't contradict anything I said (which I never do. You just like twisting my words around so it looks like it, and then when I explain it, you still say I'm contradicting myself)

 

Okay so you say that the BxM18 should be re-routed because only a few people would be inconvenienced, but yet the BxM1 shouldn't bypass Inwood even though only a few people would be inconvenienced and that's not a contradiction?? LOL

 

3) Geez. I was just pointing it out.

 

 

As usual...

[checkmatechamp13]

What the hell? Apparently my post didn't go through.

 

1) Okay so you say that the BxM18 should be re-routed because only a few people would be inconvenienced, but yet the BxM1 shouldn't bypass Inwood even though only a few people would be inconvenienced and that's not a contradiction?? LOL

 

2) As usual...

 

 

 

1) There's a difference. With the BxM18, it's still serving Lower Manhattan, but just in a different area, and the people who are being inconvenienced are still benefitting by the fact that they get a faster trip, even if it involves more walking.

 

By contrast in Inwood, you're leaving them with no express service whatsoever, and they don't get to benefit by the fact that the bus is faster. I mean, you could make the argument that it should bypass it if there was nobody, but I doubt that's the case. You said before that there are always 3-4 people getting off there.

 

2) And you keep on harping on it, as usual.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) There's a difference. With the BxM18, it's still serving Lower Manhattan, but just in a different area, and the people who are being inconvenienced are still benefitting by the fact that they get a faster trip, even if it involves more walking.

 

By contrast in Inwood, you're leaving them with no express service whatsoever, and they don't get to benefit by the fact that the bus is faster. I mean, you could make the argument that it should bypass it if there was nobody, but I doubt that's the case. You said before that there are always 3-4 people getting off there.

 

Uh... Not always... They don't need all BxM1 weekend buses stopping in Inwood because only a few people get on and sometimes we just bypass both stops but get stuck in traffic along Broadway.

 

 

Making those two ridiculous stops forces us to sit in traffic for 10 - 15 minutes when we could use the Major Deegan and be on our way. :mad:

 

They've got the train right there. If anything they should do like they do during the week and have only select BxM1s stopping in Inwood. I always take BxM1s that bypass Inwood during the week. Screw that.

 

As for the BxM18, you keep talking about folks having a faster commute overall. It isn't faster if they've got to make another connection or schlepp and walk further.

 

 

2) And you keep on harping on it, as usual.

 

Uh no, more like you keep harping on it.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) Uh... Not always... They don't need all BxM1 weekend buses stopping in Inwood because only a few people get on and sometimes we just bypass both stops but get stuck in traffic along Broadway.

 

Making those two ridiculous stops forces us to sit in traffic for 10 - 15 minutes when we could use the Major Deegan and be on our way. :mad:

 

They've got the train right there. If anything they should do like they do during the week and have only select BxM1s stopping in Inwood. I always take BxM1s that bypass Inwood during the week. Screw that.

 

As for the BxM18, you keep talking about folks having a faster commute overall. It isn't faster if they've got to make another connection or schlepp and walk further.

 

2) Uh no, more like you keep harping on it.

 

 

1) Well, the has nothing to do with the BxM1 because it doesn't serve East Midtown.

 

In any case, if it takes that much longer to go through Inwood, then sure, have some buses bypass it. The BxM1 runs every 30 minutes on the weekends, right? So have 1 bus per hour stop there and 1 bus per hour go right to Riverdale. Everybody's happy.

 

As for the BxM18, not everybody would have a longer commute. A lot of people would have either the same commute (if they work in the Financial District, but are right between Broadway and Water Street) or an easier commute (if they work by Water Street or in the WFC). I can't think of a better way to put it, but you're sort of cancelling out a few riders that get a longer commute with some that get a shorter commute, because not everybody has to deal with extra walking.

 

It's like when they sent 1/2 of the S46s to the Teleport. They made it easier to get to the Teleport, but harder to get to the West Shore Plaza. It's the same deal here (except that the number of riders who benefit is likely more than those who would have a longer trip, compared to the S46, where it's more 50/50, maybe a little in favor of the West Shore Plaza)

 

2) And yet you keep bringing it up.

[IntExp]

Ok, for once you actually mentioned something good. (Not that BxM18 idea). All the Queens express buses pass through Woodhaven Blvd right before they get on the LIE (besides the 2, 3, 20)? If they could set up a transfer point between the QM7, QM8, QM11, and the other Queens Express buses that come from Queens Boulevard, and have the QM2, QM3, and QM20 exit the LIE, left onto Woodhaven Blvd, transfer point, then get back on, it would solve the problem. In the afternoon the transfer point would be on Queens Boulevard right after the exit ramp. Then on the other right north of Eliot Ave on Woodhaven Blvd, there would be a transfer between the QM25 and the QM15, QM16, QM17, BM5.

 

This would only give QM2, QM3, and QM20 riders access to downtown during the AM rush, but it would provide every single other Queens express bus rider access to downtown with minimal service disruptions. This would only delay QM2, QM3, and QM20 buses by 3-4 minutes due to exiting and reentering the highway, but it's worth it.

 

 

That idea won't work, and I can speak from experience. When I used to go to school in Lower Manhattan, I took the QM11, since the Trinity Place/Rector Street Stop left me right in front of my school. The last stop before hitting the L.I.E. was Woodhaven/Hoffman Place, and that area won't work for a transfer point. In addition with the QM11 & QM10 (which already stops there), the Q11, Q21, Q38, Q29, & Q53 also clog the area, and coupled with the busy interchange with the L.I.E, can (and does) cause a massive traffic jam that grinds traffic to a halt, and all those buses that drop and pick up passengers in that area at the same time suffer delays. Making all the Queens Express Bus routes stop there, further clogging the interchange, would cause headaches and delays for all the routes, causing a chain reaction to take place, making everyone's commute longer & harder then it already is. In regards to making the QM2, QM3, and QM20 exit the L.I.E, why would making go back into local traffic help speed up their commutes? The QM2, QM3 & QM20 already have to exit the the G.C.P into the service road (since the G.C.P interchange ramp w/ the L.I.E going west doesn't actually lead to the L.I.E, it leads to the service road), and they can spend at least a good 15 min. in that road, since it's heavily trafficked.) before entering the L.I.E. around 99 Street- so you're idea, sadly, won't work. Like the OP said, the only solution here is to make the QM20 go to Downtown, via Midtown and then a Downtown Loop, simliar to what the BM routes do during rush hours.