Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[bobtehpanda]

The Q90 does not duplicate the Woodhaven corridor routes and the Q104 would've been eliminated in that proposal. If the Q11 doesn't duplicate the Q52/53 than neither does the Q90.

 

So let me get this straight. The Q11 doesn't... but the Q21 does. Even though you've explicitly stated that you recognize the Q21 as a branch route.

 

Just because you think a route is useless (whatever the hell that means), doesn't mean the route isn't useful to other people. If the Q21 had poor ridership to begin with (it doesn't) then I would feel inclined to agree with you. But it serves a vital purpose right now.

[Q90]

What about the Q21. The Q52 is duplicative to the Q53 and Q22, should we cut that too?

Now you're being ridiculous. I proposed cutting the Q21 to improve service on the Q11 and Q41. The Q41 would get better ridership and the Q11's schedules would be more organized. It has nothing to do with duplication whatsoever. And the Q52 is a shortened branch of the Q53 that only goes to Elmhurst (although I would send it to Woodside).

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Now you're being ridiculousI proposed cutting the Q21 to worsen service on the Q11 and Q41. The Q41 would get better ridership and the Q11's schedules would be more chaotic. It everything to do with duplication. And the Q52 is a shortened branch of the Q53 that only goes to Elmhurst (although I would send it to Woodside).

Ahuh Ahuh I understand completely.

[Q90]

Ahuh Ahuh I understand nothing.

 

Really was that necessary. Also you made some grammar errors trying to modify my post. Getting rid of the Q21 imo actually improves the Q11 schedule by eliminating the bunching between Q11s and Q21s.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Q90

[qjtransitmaster]

The Q90 does not duplicate the Woodhaven corridor routes and the Q104 would've been eliminated in that proposal. If the Q11 doesn't duplicate the Q52/53 than neither does the Q90.

This ain't jersey where almost all duplicate lines carry air. Q21&11 and 52 carry well even if a line duplicates if it carries it should be kept. Q21 can be routed out of lindenwood to gain a new ridership base. But it is very much needed on woodhaven both of rockaway Blvd why not a one seat ride to aqueduct you can close a gap without tampering with a Brooklyn line wink.

[Q90]

This ain't jersey where almost all duplicate lines carry air. Q21&11 and 52 carry well even if a line duplicates if it carries it should be kept. Q21 can be routed out of lindenwood to gain a new ridership base. But it is very much needed on woodhaven both of rockaway Blvd why not a one seat ride to aqueduct you can close a gap without tampering with a Brooklyn line wink.

The Q11 technically goes there already. Just continue walking on Pitkin Avenue from that bus stop near Pitkin Avenue/97 Street. You would then walk under the train tracks and Aqueduct is right there. Even if the Q11 didn't go near there there's no demand anyways.

[qjtransitmaster]

The Q11 technically goes there already. Just continue walking on Pitkin Avenue from that bus stop near Pitkin Avenue/97 Street. You would then walk under the train tracks and Aqueduct is right there. Even if the Q11 didn't go near there there's no demand anyways.

I am hinting beyond that there is more than just the casino look closer into that area hint crosstown south queens.

[Q90]

I am hinting beyond that there is more than just the casino look closer into that area hint crosstown south queens.

I don't know what you mean by "Crosstown South Queens." Aqueduct is just a casino and racetrack and the Q11 already goes near it. And wait do you want the Q21 to go to the Airtrain? Again, Q11 serves that area too. I'm telling you now rerouting the Q21 won't work.

[Threxx]

Do you really think I just pick out routes because that would be a stupid thing to do. Eliminating the Q21 would actually help increase ridership on the Q11, Q52/53 and the Q41. It doesn't matter how busy the Woodhaven/Cross Bay corridor is. The Q21 is now useless ever since the Q52 was started. So if the Q21 got eliminated no one would care.

 

I do, but that's another conversation...

 

The point is, don't make proposals about routes/areas you don't know at least decently.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

This ain't jersey where almost all duplicate lines carry air. Q21&11 and 52 carry well even if a line duplicates if it carries it should be kept. Q21 can be routed out of lindenwood to gain a new ridership base. But it is very much needed on woodhaven both of rockaway Blvd why not a one seat ride to aqueduct you can close a gap without tampering with a Brooklyn line wink.

No, the Q21 needs to run its current route. On Sundays, you have those QM15 riders that would use the QM15 if they had weekend service.

[Q90]

No, the Q21 needs to run its current route. On Sundays, you have those QM15 riders that would use the QM15 if they had weekend service.

As much as I hate to say this but you are right that rerouting the Q21 is not a good idea, especially to Aqueduct when the Q11 already goes there.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Q90

[bobtehpanda]

I don't know what you mean by "Crosstown South Queens."

 

Unfortunately, I do, but we're not going down that road again.

[Q90]

Unfortunately, I do, but we're not going down that road again.

I looked that up.....and came up with some unrelated shit. Sometimes QJT says things that are confusing.

[B35 via Church]

All I'm gonna say right now is that, the time for suggesting cutting Q21's have long past.... GBL ran the route like crap, MTA Bus tried to do what it could the first go-round, and things only got better with that route from there on in..... Cramming all the local riders on Q11's & cutting overall service in Lindenwood aren't the way to go...

 

Think outside the box.

[Q43LTD]

All I'm gonna say right now is that, the time for suggesting cutting Q21's have long past.... GBL ran the route like crap, MTA Bus tried to do what it could the first go-round, and things only got better with that route from there on in..... Cramming all the local riders on Q11's & cutting overall service in Lindenwood aren't the way to go...

 

Think outside the box.

Agreed. If this was 10 years ago. I'd be all for a Q21 elimination, but now no.

[Q90]

Moving on from the Q21 debate, this time I have two proposals and one involves a new super limited that runs from Queens Plaza to LaGuardia Airport which would be similar to the Q70 and the other is a restoration of the Q89 however it has improvements.

 

The new LIC-LGA super limited I called the Q87 Limited would only make 1 stop at 23 Street/Jackson Avenue (so riders can transfer to it) after leaving Queens Plaza then use Borden Avenue and the BQE/Grand Central to LaGaurdia Airport. It serves all terminals at LGA except for the Marine Air Terminal. 

 

Route Map: 

 

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=214089513480814599261.0004e365ca786857fb998

 

The Q89 restoration includes improvements. It would run from the Jamaica 165 Street bus terminal to the New Lots Avenue  station in East New York. It would have good headways as opposed to the former Q89 and it would also connect to a subway station which the former failed to do as well. The former Q89 failed because it had bad headways and it didn't connect to a subway station so people used routes like the Q6, Q9, and Q111/113 instead. Subway stations are important because a huge percentage of bus ridership comes from them. This new Q89 also connects to the Rockaway Boulevard  station.  

 

Route Map:

 

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=214089513480814599261.0004e365ca786857fb998

Edited August 8, 2013 by Q90

[bobtehpanda]

The new LIC-LGA super limited I called the Q87 Limited would only make 1 stop at 23 Street/Jackson Avenue (so riders can transfer to it) after leaving Queens Plaza then use Borden Avenue and the BQE/Grand Central to LaGaurdia Airport. It serves all terminals at LGA except for the Marine Air Terminal. 

 

This is of dubious benefit, because honestly, it would be faster for people to stay on the trains to catch other connecting airport buses. The only route in the Queens Plaza area that doesn't already have a connecting bus route to LGA is the , and ridership to the airport is definitely not high enough to support a new bus. Why does everyone think LaGuardia needs more buses? .-.

 

 

The Q89 restoration includes improvements. It would run from the Jamaica 165 Street bus terminal to the New Lots Avenue  station in East New York. It would have good headways as opposed to the former Q89

 

Alright, I'm going to stop you right here because that is delusional. There is currently no new route starting with headways better than 30 minutes during the peak (except the Q70, but that's because DOT and MTA have this weird mindset that the airport is some sort of magical ridership generator that has a giant pot of passengers at the end of the rainbow.)

[Q90]

This is of dubious benefit, because honestly, it would be faster for people to stay on the trains to catch other connecting airport buses. The only route in the Queens Plaza area that doesn't already have a connecting bus route to LGA is the , and ridership to the airport is definitely not high enough to support a new bus. Why does everyone think LaGuardia needs more buses? .-.

 

 

 

 

Alright, I'm going to stop you right here because that is delusional. There is currently no new route starting with headways better than 30 minutes during the peak (except the Q70, but that's because DOT and MTA have this weird mindset that the airport is some sort of magical ridership generator that has a giant pot of passengers at the end of the rainbow.)

Yes all new routes begin with 30 minute headways. However they will add frequency if it creates demand. And 30 minutes is much better than 1 hour headways with only 7 buses operating between 10am and 5pm on weekdays. The former Q89 failed because of it's horrible operating schedule and that it lacked connections to the subway. And about the Q87 well it eliminates a 2 fare zone to LGA from Queens Plaza. I know that there is demand between Long Island City and LaGuardia Airport. I also heard of proposals to extend the Q69 to LaGuardia but I don't agree with that since it is a slow local and less people would want to use it. And about LaGuardia needing more buses lol! Well at least it doesn't need trains like JFK does. And LGA could use more service from places like Queens Plaza and even the Bronx (there was a limited route called the Bx50 from Fordham Plaza that MTA planned in 2008, I don't know what happened to it though).

Edited August 8, 2013 by Q90

[BreeddekalbL]

combining the q23 and the q29

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=218345366120084192601.0004e36b33af6b6ed8bf6

 

since everyone is enamored with the q29 and the q33 or the q32 and q33 i propose an alternative combining the q23 and the q29 bus routes which would be renamed the Q23. purpose of combining the q23 with the q29 is to give people a connection to middle village without having to touch manhattan and give service to roosevelt ave from 83rd to 108th street

[Threxx]

combining the q23 and the q29

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=218345366120084192601.0004e36b33af6b6ed8bf6

 

since everyone is enamored with the q29 and the q33 or the q32 and q33 i propose an alternative combining the q23 and the q29 bus routes which would be renamed the Q23. purpose of combining the q23 with the q29 is to give people a connection to middle village without having to touch manhattan and give service to roosevelt ave from 83rd to 108th street

 

The Q23 is too unreliable to be combined with anything. Seriously, on a route that short it's appalling but they can have up to 5 buses bunching...

[NewFlyer 230]

combining the q23 and the q29

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=218345366120084192601.0004e36b33af6b6ed8bf6

 

since everyone is enamored with the q29 and the q33 or the q32 and q33 i propose an alternative combining the q23 and the q29 bus routes which would be renamed the Q23. purpose of combining the q23 with the q29 is to give people a connection to middle village without having to touch manhattan and give service to roosevelt ave from 83rd to 108th street

Out of all the things you can do why combine the Q23 and Q29! The Q23 gets a lot of ridership, I don't think it would be fair to take a high used route and make it unreliable with another route. If anything the Q23 should be extended to LGA and have Limited service

[Q90]

combining the q23 and the q29

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=218345366120084192601.0004e36b33af6b6ed8bf6

 

since everyone is enamored with the q29 and the q33 or the q32 and q33 i propose an alternative combining the q23 and the q29 bus routes which would be renamed the Q23. purpose of combining the q23 with the q29 is to give people a connection to middle village without having to touch manhattan and give service to roosevelt ave from 83rd to 108th street[/size]

Oh Hell NO! This is just really screwed up.

 

-The route is a loop like the Q38 and the Q38 is such a reliable route, right? (sarcasm)

 

-Neither the Q23 or Q29 go to Middle Village so your point is moot.

 

-You're screwing bus riders in East Elmhurst from a one seat ride to Forest Hills for a loop route between Forest Hills and Glendale-what?

 

Just because the Q38 is a loop doesn't mean that it is reliable. It in fact is very unreliable which is why me and other members made proposals to split it in half. What you are doing is creating an unreliable route that would make you lose riders. I said this hundreds of times if the Q29 is merging with any route, it's going to be the Q33. Q32 gets stuck in traffic a lot and extending it makes it even worse and your proposal would fail before it even went into effect.

Out of all the things you can do why combine the Q23 and Q29! The Q23 gets a lot of ridership, I don't think it would be fair to take a high used route and make it unreliable with another route. If anything the Q23 should be extended to LGA and have Limited service

And the Q48 could get kicked out of LGA and be rerouted to Astoria Heights 82 Street/Astoria Boulevard where the Q69 terminates as no one uses it to LGA.

[bobtehpanda]

Yes all new routes begin with 30 minute headways. However they will add frequency if it creates demand. And 30 minutes is much better than 1 hour headways with only 7 buses operating between 10am and 5pm on weekdays. The former Q89 failed because of it's horrible operating schedule and that it lacked connections to the subway. And about the Q87 well it eliminates a 2 fare zone to LGA from Queens Plaza. I know that there is demand between Long Island City and LaGuardia Airport.

 

You're missing the point. The demand from LIC is already well served - they can take the N to the M60, or the 7 or QBL trains to Roosevelt and change to a Q33. The Bx50 is different, because if you're coming from the Bronx you have to go down to 125th St to catch the M60 (which can get pretty slow across the Triboro). This is just a solution looking for a problem.

[Q90]

You're missing the point. The demand from LIC is already well served - they can take the N to the M60, or the 7 or QBL trains to Roosevelt and change to a Q33. The Bx50 is different, because if you're coming from the Bronx you have to go down to 125th St to catch the M60 (which can get pretty slow across the Triboro). This is just a solution looking for a problem.

I know about using the to the M60 or the to the Q33 (soon to be Q70) but those are 2-fare zones. You have to pay twice. The Q87 limited would be a one seat ride and not require any transfers so therefore it'll attract more riders and be more convenient and you even said it before that people don't like to transfer so I don't see what is wrong with it if people are going to use it.

[bobtehpanda]

I know about using the to the M60 or the to the Q33 (soon to be Q70) but those are 2-fare zones. You have to pay twice.

 

...are you using the same MTA I'm using? Because the MTA provides a free transfer to another bus or subway route within 2 hours of the first swipe.

 

Jesus, learn about the transit system before you comment on something like this.

 

The Q87 limited would be a one seat ride and not require any transfers so therefore it'll attract more riders and be more convenient and you even said it before that people don't like to transfer so I don't see what is wrong with it if people are going to use it.

 

We could get the most riders by offering chauffeured luxury pods and delivering door to door service. Oh wait, that's called a cab.

 

With the MTA's finite resources, not all riders are worth serving. LIC is an area with both multiple easy airport connections and decent bus coverage, so it's not a "coverage" route. LIC residents also generally work in Manhattan and not LGA. Finally, there are very few office complexes in LIC (besides the Citibank tower, but they would probably call a cab anyways), and there aren't that many people who travel on a regular basis, so I don't know where you're pulling your demand expectations from.