Second Avenue Subway Discussion

[CenSin]

I don't see much of a connection between Flatbush Avenue and the future 125/Lex terminal.

 

You should visit. There are 2 lines and the terminal is 2 tracks. Given the headways involved, one track for turning each line around seems hard to work with.

[NX Express]

You should visit. There are 2 lines and the terminal is 2 tracks. Given the headways involved, one track for turning each line around seems hard to work with.

 

 

The issue with Flatbush Av is that trains crawl in because of the lack of tail tracks. Or else how would Times Sq handle the 30+ tph the runs?

[Grand Concourse]

Had that station had tail tracks that ran past the station (eliminate the platform level connection and HEET), then those trains could enter as fast as the does when it enters 42nd-TS. I think they should've eliminated that connection and replace it with a cross under passageway towards the middle of the platform. It's such a pita to have to go all the way around the platform to get the .

[RollOver]

I am amazed with some of the pointless posts who claim that a Manhattan-only "shuttle" won't help...Have you ever been on the Lex Av Line at rush hour, especially off-peak? The and locals get way more jammed since they are the only lines servicing the ENTIRE Lex Av Line stops save for the three more express stops below Brooklyn Bridge. Let's not forget how more people coming from the Bronx or Brooklyn use the and expresses, the most, if not the most, heavily used lines in the system.

 

As I live in Crown Heights and often frequent the Brooklyn IRT and the Lex, the is already packed after leaving its first stop at Utica. To my experience, alot of people from the Livonia Avenue Line take the to the since they're heading to the East Side and the actually gains more ridership demands for West Side service from the Eastern Parkway local stops since it supplements for the . People from the UES overcrowd the Lex Av Lines.

 

The entire SAS is not even open anyway so how are you going to say otherwise? It will relieve the 's heavy usage. Anyone who says it will not is either high or has ridden the Lex Av lines. I grew up riding the IRT lines, and the off-peak higher ridership on the Lex is so bad that instead of having myself to be crushed on these three lines, bring in another line for the ES. Imagine if the have to handle West Side ridership without the and even the ? What do you think should be done about it? Same applies with East Side with three colored green lines servicing that area.

[Far Rock Depot]

I mentioned SI because the Lex Ave line got to the South Ferry, the second ave line as planned, does not. Think about it the Lexington Ave line is overcrowded even with 3 fast trains serving it. What makes you think that one T rain is going to really make much of the difference? If it was just served by the 6 than I would understand terminating the T at125th St but you are not going to significantly reduce crowding in the most congested line in the U.S by building a shuttle from Lower East Side to Harlem.

 

For the record, if built to phase 4, Hanover Square, is a block from South ferry, which technically, is a shorter walk from the 4 and 5 at Bowling Green. and Lex service hasn't regularly served south ferry since what, the late 70s early 80s?

One must also ride the Lex from uptown, and see how crowded the stations from uptown to 59th st is to use that argument. 96, 86, 77 and 68th sts have crowded platforms during the rush. The UES is a densely populated area. Even phase 1 alone will show improvements.

People need to stop assuming 1) everyone rides the entire length of a line 2) lines aren't successful if they don't leave Manhattan and 3) everyone is suppose to have a one seat ride.

If people Remember those 3 things aren't the main bread and butter, half these threads wouldn't have so much bickering and misinformation

[RollOver]

The line and the IND Second Avenue Line will show improvements. And even the will give residents from Harlem and the Upper East Side direct Midtown and/or Brooklyn access. Besides, I can't imagine how many West Side residents will overcrowd the local and the expresses had the , , and not gone up along that area to help out ridership there...It will be just like the overcrowded expresses and the locals now...

Edited October 13, 2012 by RollOverMyHead

[Wallyhorse]

One must also ride the Lex from uptown, and see how crowded the stations from uptown to 59th st is to use that argument. 96, 86, 77 and 68th sts have crowded platforms during the rush. The UES is a densely populated area. Even phase 1 alone will show improvements.

 

And this was why as previously noted if a new Queens tunnel ever gets built, I would be looking to do it at 79th Street and set it up so a station at 79th Street/York-1st Avenue is a three-track, two-island platform station so it can also be used to short-turn trains there. That would fix the gap of not having an entrance between 72nd and 83rd Street on the SAS in what is probably the most densely populated area of not just NYC, but of the entire country I believe (something I remember from growing up there).

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

KONE Corporation, press release, October 10, 2012

 

KONE has been awarded a contract by EE Cruz and Tully Construction to supply nine heavy-duty transit escalators to the future 96th Street station, as part of the New York City Transit Authority's (NYCTA) Second Avenue subway project. The Second Avenue Subway will reduce overcrowding and delays on the Lexington Avenue line and provide better access for residents of the far East Side of Manhattan. An estimated 200,000 passengers will use the Second Avenue Subway line daily.

A total of nine heavy-duty transit escalators will be installed to ensure safe and smooth People Flow at the 96th Street Station. The escalators are specifically designed to meet the heavy use and demanding conditions of public transportation. In addition, each escalator will feature an energy-efficient sleep mode which reduces the escalator’s speed when no passengers are travelling, allowing the MTA to minimize total energy consumption during inactive periods.

“We are pleased to continue providing our expertise in the mass transit market and eco-efficient escalator solutions to New York City’s subway system,” said Larry Wash, EVP and Area Director of KONE Americas. “We know our products will continue to provide subway passengers with a pleasant, reliable and safe travel experience.”

The company’s last project with the MTA was awarded in 2011. For this job, KONE provided nine heavy-duty transit escalators and two inclined elevators for the future subway station at 34th Street and 11th Avenue, part of the 7-Line Extension Project. Passenger train service to the new station is scheduled for June 2014.

KONE will install the escalators by late 2015. The Second Avenue Subway project is expected to be complete by December 2016.

 

http://www.kone.com/corporate/en/Press/Releases/Pages/-KONE-to-deliver-eco-efficient-escalators-to-New-York-City-subway-station-2012-10-10.aspx

[Quill Depot]

The good old loop is the solution, just run right through it. That can be done at Hanover Square using the South Ferry loop.

[Roadcruiser1]

And this was why as previously noted if a new Queens tunnel ever gets built, I would be looking to do it at 79th Street and set it up so a station at 79th Street/York-1st Avenue is a three-track, two-island platform station so it can also be used to short-turn trains there. That would fix the gap of not having an entrance between 72nd and 83rd Street on the SAS in what is probably the most densely populated area of not just NYC, but of the entire country I believe (something I remember from growing up there).

 

 

How many times have we told you that it's not possible considering all those connections to the 63rd Street Tunnel and everything else around the area? I guess you never listen do you. You keep vomiting the same stuff over and over again, and it doesn't work. It's been proven to not work. I guess you never heard of the term "You can't eat water". You can go ahead and try over and over, but it won't work. You are doing the same thing here.

[Brighton Express]

How many times have we told you that it's not possible considering all those connections to the 63rd Street Tunnel and everything else around the area? I guess you never listen do you. You keep vomiting the same stuff over and over again, and it doesn't work. It's been proven to not work. I guess you never heard of the term "You can't eat water". You can go ahead and try over and over, but it won't work. You are doing the same thing here.

 

 

You can't eat water? Ice.

 

Wow I have not seen you around for a while. There is absolutely nothing wrong about making a suggestion. I bring up things from the past all the time. It is always good to review what you have. He made a great point. There is a big gap between 72 St and 86 St, and filling the gap up would be nice, as I also have noticed that it is pretty heavily populated up there.

[Wallyhorse]

You can't eat water? Ice.

 

Wow I have not seen you around for a while. There is absolutely nothing wrong about making a suggestion. I bring up things from the past all the time. It is always good to review what you have. He made a great point. There is a big gap between 72 St and 86 St, and filling the gap up would be nice, as I also have noticed that it is pretty heavily populated up there.

 

Exactly!

 

I would NEVER expect that to actually be built, but it was to simply point out what COULD be done down the road if over time a new connection to Queens ever got built. That part of Manhattan is by far the most densely populated area in not just NYC, but the entire country and I suspect will be even more so by the time the SAS is completed. That's why I looked back and noted my previous idea of a potential new Queens tunnel going through 79th Street and a station at York-1st Avenue that can also serve as a short-turn terminal for the SAS down the road if we ever got that far.

 

What I think is more likely (on account of both costs AND the fact that 125th Street is a fault line) is Phase 2 of the SAS actually winds up going elevated after the part that was built in the 1970s (portal at the point that build ends) and ends on an el at 125th/Lex-Park with provisions to continue across 125th in the future as an elevated line.

[Far Rock Depot]

The good old loop is the solution, just run right through it. That can be done at Hanover Square using the South Ferry loop.

 

Que? A loop barely able to fit IRT cars and you wanna run B-division equipment thru it?

And don't say convert it. At the end of land basically, there's no room. It's one reason why they built a new south ferry station in the first place.

[Quill Depot]

Que? A loop barely able to fit IRT cars and you wanna run B-division equipment thru it?

And don't say convert it. At the end of land basically, there's no room. It's one reason why they built a new south ferry station in the first place.

 

 

Really, If you do some huge rehab, it could work. The train won't stop in the loop, just go thru it.

[Grand Concourse]

And where are you going to find such a huge space to fit such a loop? And why? A 2 track terminal with tail tracks going well past the station like now on the at 42nd-TS would work just fine and won't require much work. "Think twice before posting".

[Quill Depot]

And where are you going to find such a huge space to fit such a loop? And why? A 2 track terminal with tail tracks going well past the station like now on the at 42nd-TS would work just fine and won't require much work. "Think twice before posting".

 

 

Only at Hanover Square, 125th Lex can be like the term at 42-TS. Just throwin' something out there.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Quill Depot

[Grand Concourse]

smh. You missed the point....

[AndrewJC]

The good old loop is the solution, just run right through it. That can be done at Hanover Square using the South Ferry loop.

 

 

The solution to what problem?

 

The reason the plans call for SAS to terminate at Hanover Square is to avoid the mess of BMT and IRT lines at South Ferry. You're proposing (for no reason that I can see) not only going through that mess but actually connecting with one of the tracks!

 

Really, If you do some huge rehab, it could work. The train won't stop in the loop, just go thru it.

 

 

"Huge rehab"? There are two tracks at South Ferry, both built to IRT specs. The tunnel is not wide enough for B Division cars.

 

Don't forget that the inner loop is used to turn 5 trains and that the outer loop is used to move trains between the East Side and the West Side and to stage gap trains.

[kingal11234]

can anyone tell me why T trains wont be running to South Ferry. Is it because of budget issues or environmental issues?

[Metro CSW]

can anyone tell me why T trains wont be running to South Ferry. Is it because of budget issues or environmental issues?

 

 

That plan can change at anytime, we'll never know. Let's wait until the MTA begins construction on Phase 3 and 4.

Edited November 2, 2012 by NovaCSW8030

[Wallyhorse]

That plan can change at anytime, we'll never know. Let's wait until the MTA begins construction on Phase 3 and 4.

 

And by the time they get to Phases 3 and 4 (IF they ever do), then we might also see them decide to connect the SAS to the Nassau Street line instead (remember, we are a LONG way off before that would happen and anything can between now and then).

Edited November 2, 2012 by Wallyhorse

[Gorgor]

Guys, right now the plan is to finish Phase I and then stop. Back in 2007 when they started, their original expected completion date was end of 2012, and now it's pushed back to 2018 and probably won't be done until 2020. There is no money, nor is there any intention of completing any of the other phases right now.

 

Also, much to my surprise, construction on Second Avenue was up and running yesterday, so the hurricane doesn't appear to have affected it.

[CenSin]

And by the time they get to Phases 3 and 4 (IF they ever do), then we might also see them decide to connect the SAS to the Nassau Street line instead (remember, we are a LONG way off before that would happen and anything can between now and then).

 

Sometimes Roadcruiser is right anout you repeating the same stuff. It's not déjà vu; you've said this many times and we've repeated that it has been deemed not an option by MTA's own studies!

[Wallyhorse]

CenSin:

 

That is NOW. We are many, many years away from Phases 3/4 even starting (IF they ever do), and my point was, things can change. Someone else 15 years from now (the earliest I see Phase 3 even starting) might decide they need to revisit things concerning Phases 3/4 for all we know. That was my point.

[Metro CSW]

And by the time they get to Phases 3 and 4 (IF they ever do), then we might also see them decide to connect the SAS to the Nassau Street line instead (remember, we are a LONG way off before that would happen and anything can between now and then).

 

Guys, right now the plan is to finish Phase I and then stop. Back in 2007 when they started, their original expected completion date was end of 2012, and now it's pushed back to 2018 and probably won't be done until 2020. There is no money, nor is there any intention of completing any of the other phases right now.

 

Also, much to my surprise, construction on Second Avenue was up and running yesterday, so the hurricane doesn't appear to have affected it.

 

Sometimes Roadcruiser is right anout you repeating the same stuff. It's not déjà vu; you've said this many times and we've repeated that it has been deemed not an option by MTA's own studies!

 

CenSin:

 

That is NOW. We are many, many years away from Phases 3/4 even starting (IF they ever do), and my point was, things can change. Someone else 15 years from now (the earliest I see Phase 3 even starting) might decide they need to revisit things concerning Phases 3/4 for all we know. That was my point.

 

 

Now see kids: This is a smart conversation and IN topic.

 

Continue if you will.