NYC Commuter Tax Gets a Chilly Reception.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Freedom crappola? Its always stunning to me how [people can decide what freedoms other people can have. Where do you get off forcing your beliefs on others. If people want to drive, take a train bus walk do handstands all the way to work its fine with me. You dont have the right to decide whats best for me or anyone else. You have the right to decide whats right for you without impacting others rights.

 

Joe

 

 

All I said is we ALL deserve quicker commutes, which includes YOU and logically it makes no sense for everyone to drive. You still have yet to address the issue of congestion. All you keep saying is that you don't have a problem sitting in traffic which quite frankly I don't buy. You've got to be kidding me if you think you're going to sit here with the BS about you not having a problem sitting in traffic.

[lilbluefoxie]

Let me guess phantom? You support Libertarianism? Under your logic i assume there should be no taxes right? Then there would be no schools, or military to defend our country. Or even maintain our highways as well.

 

 

There are states with no personal income tax and they do just fine, New Hampshire comes to mind. They have schools in New Hampshire, and highways, and fire departments and everything else you would expect in the United States.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I still want someone to answer me about how to deal with congestion. Quite frankly I have no problem with folks wanting to drive, so long as I'm not stuck in traffic. The issue with that is you can only make the streets so big, so how exactly would you two (and you know who you are ) deal with congesting????

[lilbluefoxie]

Theres carpool lanes and whatnot. Also people in the suburbs have the option of finding work in the suburbs, Many companies locate their headquarters outside of the city where they can have a larger building, plenty of parking and easy highway access for deliveries and stuff. Traffic isnt that bad if you live in Nassau and commute to Suffolk county for example.

 

Not everyone on the highway in New York City is heading to Manhattan. Some people live on Long Island and commute to Jersey or Westchester and vice versa.

[Phantom909]

I still want someone to answer me about how to deal with congestion. Quite frankly I have no problem with folks wanting to drive, so long as I'm not stuck in traffic. The issue with that is you can only make the streets so big, so how exactly would you two (and you know who you are ) deal with congesting????

 

I already answered that. I said that if congestion got too bad, a person has a choice to either switch to mass transit, or find another job closer and companies could change their hours or relocate or anything else to deal with it. The solution is and should be made by the individual, whether it be a worker or a business owner. not by artificially mandating some one size fits all rule.America became the greatest country in the history of the planet by allowing individuals to make decisions on what they feel is best for them. not from some dogma of so called know it alls

 

Joe

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I already answered that. I said that if congestion got too bad, a person has a choice to either switch to mass transit, or find another job closer and companies could change their hours or relocate or anything else to deal with it. The solution is and should be made by the individual, whether it be a worker or a business owner. not by artificially mandating some one size fits all rule.America became the greatest country in the history of the planet by allowing individuals to make decisions on what they feel is best for them. not from some dogma of so called know it alls

 

Joe

 

That only addresses getting to work and everyone knows that the jobs are in the city in any event, so me finding a job here in Riverdale that pays as much as I currently earn in my field is not happening. Nice answer though. Furthermore, it doesn't address congestion outside of that either.

[Phantom909]

That only addresses getting to work and everyone knows that the jobs are in the city in any event, so me finding a job here in Riverdale that pays as much as I currently earn in my field is not happening. Nice answer though. Furthermore, it doesn't address congestion outside of that either.

 

its your choice, whatever you decide you live with it. What do you want someone to carry you to work? Man up and deal with life youre still b etter off than 95% 0f the rest of the world

 

Joe.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

its your choice, whatever you decide you live with it. What do you want someone to carry you to work? Man up and deal with life youre still b etter off than 95% 0f the rest of the world

 

Joe.

 

lol... Very funny... You should be able to man up and deal with not using your precious car 24/7. Since we're talking about the majority here, the majority of New Yorkers use public transit in NYC. There are taxis you know. I use them here in NYC.

[lilbluefoxie]

That only addresses getting to work and everyone knows that the jobs are in the city in any event, so me finding a job here in Riverdale that pays as much as I currently earn in my field is not happening. Nice answer though. Furthermore, it doesn't address congestion outside of that either.

 

Riverdale IS the city weather you and the real estate people like to believe it or not. Its within the city of New York. Im talking about people in Massapequa or Wantagh finding jobs in Islandia or Melville and choosing to work there instead of going to New York city for work. Yes jobs in Manhattan pay more than ones on Long Island or Westchester but is the commute, be it in your car or on Metro-North or the Long Island Railroad enough to justify the higher pay? For some it is, for some its not.

[Phantom909]

lol... Very funny... You should be able to man up and deal with not using your precious car 24/7. Since we're talking about the majority here, the majority of New Yorkers use public transit in NYC. There are taxis you know. I use them here in NYC.

 

I man up everyday. I live in North Bellmore in Nassau and my workplace is in ardsley in Westchester. I drive a truck for a living all over the tri state area, so I know what traffic is. I dont like sitting in traffic but I deal with it because its part of life. BTW I don`t get paid by the hour I get paid by delivery so if i get done by 2 or 6 I get paid the same. The difference is I dont cry like you cause life throws you a little curve now and then.

 

Joe

[CenSin]

well first of all eating and drinking on a bus is illegal. Your comment "The way it is now is not the way it`s supposed to be' is another example of whats wrong with this line of thinking. What makes you or anyone else an expert on that? Its just another talking point from the "social engineers" who claim they know whats best for everybody, but they don`t. . The more government or these other "know it all masterminds" interfere with peoples freedoms it makes things worse. There plans work in great in a theoretical world, but we live in the real world, thats why their plans fail.

And here in this real world where the results of no congestion pricing is bare for all to see…

[lilbluefoxie]

And here in this real world where the results of no congestion pricing is bare for all to see…

 

that has nothing to do with congestion pricing hes just talking about government overreach in general

[Phantom909]

And here in this real world where the results of no congestion pricing is bare for all to see…

And here in this real world where the results of no congestion pricing is bare for all to see…

 

your world view is foreign to what America is all about. Its what you want and you dont care how it affects others. You will sell your soul to make it your own little paradise and to hell with everyone else. My view is to let the individual decide whats best for their own unique situation.

 

Joe

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Riverdale IS the city weather you and the real estate people like to believe it or not. Its within the city of New York. Im talking about people in Massapequa or Wantagh finding jobs in Islandia or Melville and choosing to work there instead of going to New York city for work. Yes jobs in Manhattan pay more than ones on Long Island or Westchester but is the commute, be it in your car or on Metro-North or the Long Island Railroad enough to justify the higher pay? For some it is, for some its not.

 

Yeah I know that, but it is suburban by NYC standards. Believe me I have no desires to live in the boonies...

 

I man up everyday. I live in North Bellmore in Nassau and my workplace is in ardsley in Westchester. I drive a truck for a living all over the tri state area, so I know what traffic is. I dont like sitting in traffic but I deal with it because its part of life. BTW I don`t get paid by the hour I get paid by delivery so if i get done by 2 or 6 I get paid the same. The difference is I dont cry like you cause life throws you a little curve now and then.

 

Joe

 

I don't call sitting in traffic a curve ball because it is something that can be rectified with adjustments so that traffic flows better. You can cry freedom all you want but I support congestion pricing. You're "free" to pay the toll or not pay it.

[Phantom909]

Yeah I know that, but it is suburban by NYC standards. Believe me I have no desires to live in the boonies...

 

 

 

I don't call sitting in traffic a curve ball because it is something that can be rectified with adjustments so that traffic flows better. You can cry freedom all you want but I support congestion pricing. You're "free" to pay the toll or not pay it.

Yeah I know that, but it is suburban by NYC standards. Believe me I have no desires to live in the boonies...

 

 

 

I don't call sitting in traffic a curve ball because it is something that can be rectified with adjustments so that traffic flows better. You can cry freedom all you want but I support congestion pricing. You're "free" to pay the toll or not pay it.

 

you have a right to support it, but let me ask you why you support giving money to a government that has you $65,000 in debt? a government who just want to spend you into oblivion. I said before, i dont mind paying taxes, but i want my money to go to what its supposed to go to. The reality is it doesnt. I guarentee that if they implement it, it might take some cars off the road, but have a negligible impact on congestion alleviation. And in a short time afterwards they will be begging for more cause they are broke again. Look at the lottery, it was instituted for education, did it go there? Nope thats the reality. Let these beaureaucrats show me they will spend my money for what they say its for, but since their track record is abysmal, they deserve nothing until they prove otherwise.

 

Joe

[CenSin]

your world view is foreign to what America is all about.

This country is quite dysfunctional because of many things that it's about.

 

Its what you want and you dont care how it affects others. You will sell your soul to make it your own little paradise and to hell with everyone else.

And this is precisely one of the things America is about. America has sold its citizens (its soul) out to a plethora of foreign nations, corporations, and individuals, but that's best left to a separate discussion. It's also quite ironic that you claim I don't care how it affects others—you who claim that you should be able to drive your car without giving a damn how it affects others. I'm self-centered for supporting something that has an overall positive benefit for everyone?

 

My view is to let the individual decide whats best for their own unique situation.

When everything is left to every individual, it's called anarchy. We obviously can't have everything left to the individual, and congestion pricing is another one of those things that has to be implemented for the greater good.

[Joel Up Front]

This country is quite dysfunctional because of many things that it's about.

 

 

And this is precisely one of the things America is about. America has sold its citizens (its soul) out to a plethora of foreign nations, corporations, and individuals, but that's best left to a separate discussion. It's also quite ironic that you claim I don't care how it affects others—you who claim that you should be able to drive your car without giving a damn how it affects others. I'm self-centered for supporting something that has an overall positive benefit for everyone?

 

 

When everything is left to every individual, it's called anarchy. We obviously can't have everything left to the individual, and congestion pricing is another one of those things that has to be implemented for the greater good.

 

Aren't you the one waxing lyrical over China taking everything over?

[CenSin]

Aren't you the one waxing lyrical over China taking everything over?

Nope. They're far too controlling and secretive to fit in my comfort zone.

 

 

Anyhow, there's a Wikipedia article on the whole congestion pricing issue in New York City (surprising): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_congestion_pricing. If it were implemented, it'd be the first in the entire United States. Meanwhile, other cities all over the world have taken care of this problem with congestion pricing and none of their host countries are anything like China.

[lilbluefoxie]

Nope. They're far too controlling and secretive to fit in my comfort zone.

 

Coulda fooled me, you like to speak a lot about the govt controlling everything for the greater good much like they do over there.

 

Anyhow, there's a Wikipedia article on the whole congestion pricing issue in New York City (surprising): http://en.wikipedia....gestion_pricing. If it were implemented, it'd be the first in the entire United States. Meanwhile, other cities all over the world have taken care of this problem with congestion pricing and none of their host countries are anything like China.

 

They aren't anything like America either.

[Roadcruiser1]

Look. We are behind on mass transit in America while in other nations in Europe and Asia is improving mass transit. We have this addiction to oil that isn't going away. What will we do if the oil runs out. The answer is to improve mass transit so if oil does run out or decline we will have a massive amount of mass transit to keep this city alive. If this city keeps relying on oil then it will only fall behind. I don't care if you think that mass transit is socialism or communism, but there are plenty of people that rely on mass transit. It's more then you with your car. Think about how much better it would be for kids and your kids if the air was cleaner and if there were more trains and buses that could improve the quality of living. Why do we fear this model? There is nothing to fear. New York is always a city that is moving ahead in some way or another. So why not move ahead on mass transit. Become a role model for other American cities, for other cities around the world. That was what we were 100 years ago and we can again.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Look. We are behind on mass transit in America while in other nations in Europe and Asia is improving mass transit. We have this addiction to oil that isn't going away. What will we do if the oil runs out. The answer is to improve mass transit so if oil does run out or decline we will have a massive amount of mass transit to keep this city alive. If this city keeps relying on oil then it will only fall behind. I don't care if you think that mass transit is socialism or communism, but there are plenty of people that rely on mass transit. It's more then you with your car. Think about how much better it would be for kids and your kids if the air was cleaner and if there were more trains and buses that could improve the quality of living. Why do we fear this model? There is nothing to fear. New York is always a city that is moving ahead in some way or another. So why not move ahead on mass transit. Become a role model for other American cities, for other cities around the world. That was what we were 100 years ago and we can again.

 

 

They're concerned about their freedom... There are plenty of people who could drive to work, but they don't because they realize that it would be ridiculous to do so as traffic would be at a standstill. Clearly no one remembers the transit strike back in 2005. I walked to and from the Ferry the first day and then all the way to my office which was on 5th & 18th at the time. Going home I did the same treck. By the second day though I was hailing cabs where I could, including on Staten Island (which was of course illegal, but they picked me up anyway), as at that time I wasn't taking car service/taxis the way that I do now. I remember that second day hailing the cab to the ferry and then walking a bit in the city until I could hail a yellow taxi, as nothing was available and I actually had to share a yellow taxi. Traffic was so bad that eventually I gave up and got out and walked the rest of the way to the office.

 

God forbid we have to make sacrifices though... And folks have the nerve to attack me about using the express bus. Yeah, I do sacrifice by using public transit, but that's why I splurge on the express bus because I can ride to work and be comfortable and not packed in like a sardine can on some dirty subway but still contribute to lowering the congestion and pollution in the city. That's how I look at it. Sure I could drive in and have the freedom to relax in my car, but I would just be adding to an already congested city.

 

I think New Yorkers from the city get it. It's the folks out in the suburbs that are obsessed with cars. That's why I left Staten Island. The same mentality out there...

[lilbluefoxie]

Look. We are behind on mass transit in America while in other nations in Europe and Asia is improving mass transit. We have this addiction to oil that isn't going away. What will we do if the oil runs out. The answer is to improve mass transit so if oil does run out or decline we will have a massive amount of mass transit to keep this city alive. If this city keeps relying on oil then it will only fall behind. I don't care if you think that mass transit is socialism or communism, but there are plenty of people that rely on mass transit. It's more then you with your car. Think about how much better it would be for kids and your kids if the air was cleaner and if there were more trains and buses that could improve the quality of living. Why do we fear this model? There is nothing to fear. New York is always a city that is moving ahead in some way or another. So why not move ahead on mass transit. Become a role model for other American cities, for other cities around the world. That was what we were 100 years ago and we can again.

 

 

first off, we have plenty of oil, we would have a hell of a lot more if not for the environmentalists. In addition we have coal and natural gas. Coal can be liquified to create oil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_liquefaction we have centuries worth of coal.

 

secondly, I dont think using the Subway or the Bus is socialism, I do believe that FORCING people to use mass transit by making car ownership artificially expensive by the use of taxation is similar to policies that come about in socialist countries.

 

thirdly, I want my kids to be able to know the freedom of being able to go where you want, when you want to, in the comfort of their own car. To live in the world without ridiculous nanny state laws, such as how much salt or fat can be in fast food. I live in the suburbs and plan to stay in the suburbs where its quieter, safer, and there's plenty of open space and parkland for them to enjoy. Where you can live in a HOUSE not an Apartment, and have a garage and a driveway, not leaving your car on a street where its subject to being broken in by thugs or being towed thanks to some idiotic street sweeping system which does absolutely nothing to make anything look cleaner.

[CenSin]

first off, we have plenty of oil, we would have a hell of a lot more if not for the environmentalists. In addition we have coal and natural gas. Coal can be liquified to create oil. http://en.wikipedia....al_liquefaction we have centuries worth of coal.

This is what is wrong with people. How long do you think we can keep this up? Is oil, coal, and natural gas infinite? If this were money, it'd be financially irresponsible to spend without thinking about income in the future. Would you spend yourself penniless before thinking about applying for a job or begging for money?

 

secondly, I dont think using the Subway or the Bus is socialism, I do believe that FORCING people to use mass transit by making car ownership artificially expensive by the use of taxation is similar to policies that come about in socialist countries.

First, you're already forced to do a lot of things like paying taxes, geting licenses, and jury duty. Each of those things infringe on your freedom to not do any of them. Why are people compelled to do them? There's a social responsibility to make sure things don't fall into chaos. Absolute freedom does not exist. Somewhere in the laws, you will be compelled to abide by certain rules. Second, congestion pricing isn't forcing anybody to not drive. It's a balancing force to discourage congesting the streets with traffic. If you don't like the law of the land, don't go to that land. You have the right to move somewhere else or not go to the city by car.

[Roadcruiser1]

I am not going to argue about automobiles but about the lifeblood of the city as a whole. The city can't fall behind. We just can't. New York City is too important to fall behind. That is why we need mass transit improvements to keep up with other cities around the world, but also to provide better living for people living in New York City. You don't have to live in the city if you don't like the idea. There are always opportunities in the suburbs. This idea is to improve life for those that want to live in New York City and stay in New York City as a whole.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This is what is wrong with people. How long do you think we can keep this up? Is oil, coal, and natural gas infinite? If this were money, it'd be financially irresponsible to spend without thinking about income in the future. Would you spend yourself penniless before thinking about applying for a job or begging for money?

 

 

First, you're already forced to do a lot of things like paying taxes, geting licenses, and jury duty. Each of those things infringe on your freedom to not do any of them. Why are people compelled to do them? There's a social responsibility to make sure things don't fall into chaos. Absolute freedom does not exist. Somewhere in the laws, you will be compelled to abide by certain rules. Second, congestion pricing isn't forcing anybody to not drive. It's a balancing force to discourage congesting the streets with traffic. If you don't like the law of the land, do go to that land. You have the right to move somewhere else or not go to the city by car.

 

 

This is the extact mentality that we have to steer clear of... You hit it right on the nose... We have "infinite" gas and other natural supplies, but we don't have infinite monies to invest in our transit systems and infrastructure...