NYC Commuter Tax Gets a Chilly Reception.

[lilbluefoxie]

First, you're already forced to do a lot of things like paying taxes, geting licenses, and jury duty. Each of those things infringe on your freedom to not do any of them. Why are people compelled to do them? There's a social responsibility to make sure things don't fall into chaos. Absolute freedom does not exist. Somewhere in the laws, you will be compelled to abide by certain rules. Second, congestion pricing isn't forcing anybody to not drive. It's a balancing force to discourage congesting the streets with traffic. If you don't like the law of the land, don't go to that land. You have the right to move somewhere else or not go to the city by car.

 

 

All this is brought upon by people who have an agenda to get people to give up their cars, lets not kid ourselves here. You can dance around the issue all you want but people like you will only be happy when everyones on the bus or the subway, packed in little apartments, and everyone waves when the party chairman drives around in his big mercedes benz from his mansion wayy out in the country that none of the little peons can get to cuz theres no bus there.

 

However the Commuter Tax that this topic is about, NOT congestion pricing which was shot down by the city and the state (I forget which one). The Commuter Tax they are trying to revive is going to hit people in the suburbs no matter if they drive or take the train. Let the people in city pay for the subway and buses, since theyre the primary users of it. Dont hit the people in the suburbs whom many dont even get on the Subway once they get to Penn Station, especially if they work in midtown.

 

With all these stupid extra taxes and stuff going towards bureaucracies that cant spend within a damn budget, I have sympathy for anyone wanting to offshore their money to get around it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

All this is brought upon by people who have an agenda to get people to give up their cars, lets not kid ourselves here. You can dance around the issue all you want but people like you will only be happy when everyones on the bus or the subway, packed in little apartments, and everyone waves when the party chairman drives around in his big mercedes benz from his mansion wayy out in the country that none of the little peons can get to cuz theres no bus there.

 

However the Commuter Tax that this topic is about, NOT congestion pricing which was shot down by the city and the state (I forget which one). The Commuter Tax they are trying to revive is going to hit people in the suburbs no matter if they drive or take the train. Let the people in city pay for the subway and buses, since theyre the primary users of it. Dont hit the people in the suburbs whom many dont even get on the Subway once they get to Penn Station, especially if they work in midtown.

 

With all these stupid extra taxes and stuff going towards bureaucracies that cant spend within a damn budget, I have sympathy for anyone wanting to offshore their money to get around it.

 

 

Right, but while I don't support the commuter tax, I DO support congestion pricing, which is becoming popular again. You folks want to come to the city??? Use public transportation (taxis are included in that which I certainly use when I don't want to deal with the dirty subway or the local bus). I don't think the suburbs should be hit either, but I get sick of seeing these prima donnas with NJ license plates rolling into NY clogging up our streets with their big oversized gas guzzling cars like we don't have enough congestion and pollution here. If we New Yorkers can use public transportation in the city, what's so special about the folks from the suburbs??

[lilbluefoxie]

Right, but while I don't support the commuter tax, I DO support congestion pricing, which is becoming popular again. You folks want to come to the city??? Use public transportation (taxis are included in that which I certainly use when I don't want to deal with the dirty subway or the local bus). I don't think the suburbs should be hit either, but I get sick of seeing these prima donnas with NJ license plates rolling into NY clogging up our streets with their big oversized gas guzzling cars like we don't have enough congestion and pollution here. If we New Yorkers can use public transportation in the city, what's so special about the folks from the suburbs??

 

 

You put down the Railroad and Subway and local bus but you expect us from the Suburbs to put up with it?

[Roadcruiser1]

From what I heard the roads and the highways are getting some of this money too. Not just rail. So if you are so happy to promote you car agenda over rail you are going to eliminate the benefits that would also go to roads, and maybe some funding could go to the MNRR, or the PATH, or the NJT, or the LIRR. Stop being biased.

[lilbluefoxie]

From what I heard the roads and the highways are getting some of this money too. Not just rail. So if you are so happy to promote you car agenda over rail you are going to eliminate the benefits that would also go to roads, and maybe some funding could go to the MNRR, or the PATH, or the NJT, or the LIRR. Stop being biased.

 

 

I can deal with a few extra potholes to avoid something that's obviously going to be abused. They already mismanage the funds for transportation of all kinds, what makes you think this is going to be any different?

 

And you and plenty of other people in this thread are biased as well. I actually take the train when I go to Manhattan.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You put down the Railroad and Subway and local bus but you expect us from the Suburbs to put up with it?

 

 

The LIRR is fine actually. My only issue are the seats and the jerking, but then again I'm used to the reclining soft seats on the express buses. Other than that I would use it and have in a heart beat. Now the subway that's another story. I was talking with one of my BxM18 regulars last night and we were saying how we don't mind waiting if the express bus is late because it is far better than riding the filthy and packed subway. lol Mind you I do use the subway regularly, but not during the heat of rush hour. Off hours it is okay for short distances this way I can stand and not touch anything.

[Phantom909]

OK I stayed away for a couple of days to see if one of you guys who support taking more money from us would answer my question which none of you did. So Ill ask again. The federal and state governments have new York state residents, that includes a baby born 10 minutes ago, over $65,000 in debt. The money that would be collected will NOT go to mass transit, nor to roads.And it wont go to pay down the debt either. it will go to line the pockets of politicians and to their cronies. Why cant you see this? You guys play right into the hands of these elected parasites. Its time for the government to spend OUR money correctly, not give them more.

 

And for the ones who complain about me and some others are crying about our freedoms, when you keep giving away freedoms what will you do when there are none left? You guys keep saying it works in Europe and Asia, We are America, not Europe or Asia, So tell me why we should go that route and try to convince me that the money will be spent the right way, with proof of it.

 

Joe

[CenSin]

OK I stayed away for a couple of days to see if one of you guys who support taking more money from us would answer my question which none of you did. So Ill ask again. The federal and state governments have new York state residents, that includes a baby born 10 minutes ago, over $65,000 in debt. The money that would be collected will NOT go to mass transit, nor to roads.And it wont go to pay down the debt either. it will go to line the pockets of politicians and to their cronies. Why cant you see this? You guys play right into the hands of these elected parasites. Its time for the government to spend OUR money correctly, not give them more.

That's a separate issue. If you want to discuss corruption, make a new thread. Additionally, back up your claims with news articles and whatnot. We know there are bad eggs, but without specifics, there's no target to argue against.

 

And for the ones who complain about me and some others are crying about our freedoms, when you keep giving away freedoms what will you do when there are none left? You guys keep saying it works in Europe and Asia, We are America, not Europe or Asia, So tell me why we should go that route and try to convince me that the money will be spent the right way, with proof of it.

And the end result is that those other countries work much better than we do. You just have to fix the administration, because the idea of congestion pricing itself isn't the problem.

[Phantom909]

That's a separate issue. If you want to discuss corruption, make a new thread. Additionally, back up your claims with news articles and whatnot. We know there are bad eggs, but without specifics, there's no target to argue against.

 

It is not a separate issue. Its part of the whole issue. Congestion pricing punishes a specific group of people who are already paying through the nose to the government for registrations, gas tax (17.8 cents a gallon for NY State), parking (25 cents for 15 mins in NYC), tolls, license fees etc. And your solution is to take more from us. Like Ive said before, if I was guaranteed that the additional money would go to what its supposed to, i might reconsider it. What about all the cost overruns and fraud that we`ve paid for. The Bronx-Whitestone Bridge rehab was supposed to be completed in 2008, its 4 years later and over budget. The LIRR Pension Fraud that has cost us hundreds of millions of dollars, why isnt the state going after everyone involved and making them pay back every cent that they stole. As far as I know only 11 people have been arrested, the fraud can cost us at least $275,000,000. I can go on but they are too numerous but ill give you a link here

 

http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-new-york-debt-clock.html

 

It shows that the total debt, that these politicians have done to us, and you want to give more of someone else`s money to, is over $303 billion dollars. which means each of the 19.4 million new yorkers share of it is over $15 thousand. Are they doing anything to bring this down? No, New york state revenue is $234 billion and they are spending $291 billion. When the state learns to live within its means, like every citizen has to then maybe we can talk about giving them more money, until then No way.

 

 

And the end result is that those other countries work much better than we do. You just have to fix the administration, because the idea of congestion pricing itself isn't the problem.

 

 

Thats your opinion, I have family and friends in Europe. they all say the same thing they cant believe that the USA is changing to become more like them. They have no choice anymore, they sold their souls a long time ago. Americans have always used their individual talents and brainpower to work things out their own way, most know that the 'one size fits all" garbage doesnt work for America. i already given you ways that people and businesses can deal with congestion without these corrupt, criminal, power grabbing masterminds interfering with us.If you want to go down the European road, then you can kiss everything that youve been given by this great country, the millions who have fought and died for your freedom. If you want to live under tyranny, thats fine, but I dont. I want to live my life the way I want, and that is by the law, this is not anarchy, this is an american who cherishes the freedoms I have left, and the freedom of others. I dont tell anyone what i think is best for them, and i dont want anyone telling me what they think is best for me.. The rights of each individual was and still is what this great country was founded on and has served us well for over 200 years. Ill take that route everytime . To the ones who have mentioned that they dont want New York to fall behind. the only way New York falls behind is because of people who are unwilling or arent brave enough to deal with problems in an individual way, not by letting a group of temporary politicians dictating what they say is best for us.

 

Joe

[CenSin]

It is not a separate issue. Its part of the whole issue. Congestion pricing punishes a specific group of people who are already paying through the nose to the government for registrations, gas tax (17.8 cents a gallon for NY State), parking (25 cents for 15 mins in NYC), tolls, license fees etc. And your solution is to take more from us. Like Ive said before, if I was guaranteed that the additional money would go to what its supposed to, i might reconsider it. What about all the cost overruns and fraud that we`ve paid for. The Bronx-Whitestone Bridge rehab was supposed to be completed in 2008, its 4 years later and over budget. The LIRR Pension Fraud that has cost us hundreds of millions of dollars, why isnt the state going after everyone involved and making them pay back every cent that they stole. As far as I know only 11 people have been arrested, the fraud can cost us at least $275,000,000. I can go on but they are too numerous but ill give you a link here

 

http://www.usdebtclo...debt-clock.html

 

It shows that the total debt, that these politicians have done to us, and you want to give more of someone else`s money to, is over $303 billion dollars. which means each of the 19.4 million new yorkers share of it is over $15 thousand. Are they doing anything to bring this down? No, New york state revenue is $234 billion and they are spending $291 billion. When the state learns to live within its means, like every citizen has to then maybe we can talk about giving them more money, until then No way.

 

Thats your opinion, I have family and friends in Europe. they all say the same thing they cant believe that the USA is changing to become more like them. They have no choice anymore, they sold their souls a long time ago. Americans have always used their individual talents and brainpower to work things out their own way, most know that the 'one size fits all" garbage doesnt work for America. i already given you ways that people and businesses can deal with congestion without these corrupt, criminal, power grabbing masterminds interfering with us.If you want to go down the European road, then you can kiss everything that youve been given by this great country, the millions who have fought and died for your freedom. If you want to live under tyranny, thats fine, but I dont. I want to live my life the way I want, and that is by the law, this is not anarchy, this is an american who cherishes the freedoms I have left, and the freedom of others. I dont tell anyone what i think is best for them, and i dont want anyone telling me what they think is best for me.. The rights of each individual was and still is what this great country was founded on and has served us well for over 200 years. Ill take that route everytime . To the ones who have mentioned that they dont want New York to fall behind. the only way New York falls behind is because of people who are unwilling or arent brave enough to deal with problems in an individual way, not by letting a group of temporary politicians dictating what they say is best for us.

 

Well then: since you're the naysayer, say what is it that you propose be done? From your post history on this thread there's a plan and your response to the plan is simply no with no credible alternative solution to offer, and decrying how we're going to be like "one of those typical socialist countries." How much more do you help the problem by keeping your money?

 

I doubt any other ideas are brighter than this one. The problem here is congestion from the areas surrounding Manhattan and a much larger secondary problem of pollution. I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but when you stop offering opinions and suggest some semblance of a plan then we've got something we can work with.

[Phantom909]

Well then: since you're the naysayer, say what is it that you propose be done? From your post history on this thread there's a plan and your response to the plan is simply no with no credible alternative solution to offer, and decrying how we're going to be like "one of those typical socialist countries." How much more do you help the problem by keeping your money? I doubt any other ideas are brighter than this one. The problem here is congestion from the areas surrounding Manhattan and a much larger secondary problem of pollution. I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but when you stop offering opinions and suggest some semblance of a plan then we've got something we can work with.

 

Reading is fundamental, i already stated my plan. i said that the individual, whether a worker or business owner is smart enough to decide whats best for them. if someone wants to drive in, thats fine with me, take mass transit, thats fine with me too, walk, ride a bike, do handstands its all fine with me. Americans i believe, are all capable of deciding whats best for them. Im probably older than you, Im 54, but I was taught by my parents, and the schools at that time, to have personal responsibility, to take care of myself the way I see fit, and dont interfere with others freedoms. Live and let live. But it seems to have changed, mostly from the school system, where they indoctrinate students today into the thought that government can fix everything. Government has proven nowadays that they cant. They waste money on their social engineering schemes that are filled with fraud and overspending. Im tired of it. As a great man once said:

 

 

"Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem"

 

 

 

that was President reagan.

 

 

I love how you talk about pollution, since the wonderful EPA has named carbon dioxide a pollutant, everytime we exhale we pollute then, so should we all stop exhaling now too? IMO there are 2 plans that make sense, my plan by leaving us all alone or ban all cars, trucks, buses, motorcycles, power plants and anything else that causes pollution. That would be fairer than singling out 1 group of people to be penalised while others arent. BTW if you want that, good luck getting any groceries or electricity or anything else you need to live.

 

Joe.