BreeddekalbL Posted November 20, 2013 Share #2826 Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) Brooklyn bus mentioned the b23 so i decided to work with it, i want to see what do you guys and brooklyn bus think https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=218345366120084192601.0004eb94d2d9a0fb63fd9 Edited November 20, 2013 by BreeddekalbL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted November 20, 2013 Share #2827 Posted November 20, 2013 That's the problem, the above $10's per ride. Why couldn't the MTA operate such a service for the price of a local or express bus with a couple of intermediate stops? I bet those buses would be filled. I still say the taxi lobby would prevent the MTA from doing that if they wanted to. Remember the low flat fare they started for group taxi rides from the airport? I think it started at something like $30 a ride. What's it now? $50 or $60? Not very low cost. What about a private fare from the airport, how much is that? We really have to do much better for our airport passengers, and the MTA is in a position to do something about it. No other city that I know of are bus and taxi fares from the airport so expensive. As I said, one local bus route per borough to an airport is utterly ridiculous. Multiple bus routes serve the airports from stations that are ADA accessible. LIRR+bus/AirTrain is not expensive: $5 offpeak/$8 peak and $2.50 for the bus to LGA, and $7/$9.50 for LIRR and $5 for the AirTrain. Using the subway will cut total costs to $2.50 for LGA and $7.50 for JFK (or $2.50 if you're using the Q10). I feel like airport express routes would eat up a lot of money just to provide duplicative options. If this was about serving hubs outside of Manhattan it might be better (like say, a route to/from Atlantic Terminal), but those would have to be discussed on their own merits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted November 20, 2013 Share #2828 Posted November 20, 2013 Not to go off topic, but isn't there a proposed route from Fordham to LGA in the works? And it's select? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreeddekalbL Posted November 20, 2013 Share #2829 Posted November 20, 2013 Not to go off topic, but isn't there a proposed route from Fordham to LGA in the works? And it's select? yes its in the plans if i remember correctly 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted November 20, 2013 Share #2830 Posted November 20, 2013 yes its in the plans if i remember correctlyAnd another SBS route to boot 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkupf Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2831 Posted November 21, 2013 Yes, the Bx50. It's been in the works since at least 2008. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2832 Posted November 21, 2013 Yes, the Bx50. It's been in the works since at least 2008.I don't think the Bx50 was supposed to be SBS... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2833 Posted November 21, 2013 I don't think the Bx50 was supposed to be SBS... It's not. The MTA was exploring the idea of extending some Bx41 trips to LGA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2834 Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) It's not. The MTA was exploring the idea of extending some Bx41 trips to LGA.Bx41 to LGA? News to me. Edited November 21, 2013 by Q43LTD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2835 Posted November 21, 2013 It's not. The MTA was exploring the idea of extending some Bx41 trips to LGA. That is extreme but I understand why they would explore that ave. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2836 Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) I don't think the Bx50 was supposed to be SBS... Talkin about the Fordham-LGA route?That's because it wasn't.... Bx41 to LGA? News to me. As I understand it, the Bx41 to LGA was supposed to be the original rendition of SBS on the Bx41.... (This is what killed talks of that Bx50) As you can see, the Bx41 SBS doesn't come close to serving LGA! So all the Bx41 to LGA talks did was put the Bx50 proposal on the backburner... I'd argue that having had artics later placed on the M60 was a very (half-assed) substitute of having *some* semblance of SBS service to the airport.... Sure, Bronx folks still have to xfer to the M60 - But after all, at least now they're transferring... to articulated buses.... In plain english, putting artics on M60's is cheaper than starting up a new route.... and is cheaper than extending Bx41's to the airport. I bet that was the thinking.... Edited November 21, 2013 by B35 via Church 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2837 Posted November 21, 2013 It's not. The MTA was exploring the idea of extending some Bx41 trips to LGA. They original had the idea for a Bx50, NOW the idea is to have Bx41 SBS buses (only) go there, with a consideration of a short-turn in Norwood or Fordham. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2838 Posted November 21, 2013 They original had the idea for a Bx50, NOW the idea is to have Bx41 SBS buses (only) go there, with a consideration of a short-turn in Norwood or Fordham. You make it sound like the Bx41 SBS to LGA is something current.... it's not. Bobpanda didn't say anything wrong there..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2839 Posted November 21, 2013 You make it sound like the Bx41 SBS to LGA is something current.... it's not. Bobpanda didn't say anything wrong there..... I know, I'm just saying that as of now the idea is an extended Bx41 instead of Bx50. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2840 Posted November 21, 2013 Talkin about the Fordham-LGA route? That's because it wasn't.... As I understand it, the Bx41 to LGA was supposed to be the original rendition of SBS on the Bx41.... (This is what killed talks of that Bx50) As you can see, the Bx41 SBS doesn't come close to serving LGA! So all the Bx41 to LGA talks did was put the Bx50 proposal on the backburner... I'd argue that having had artics later placed on the M60 was a very (half-assed) substitute of having *some* semblance of SBS service to the airport.... Sure, Bronx folks still have to xfer to the M60 - But after all, at least now they're transferring... to articulated buses.... In plain english, putting artics on M60's is cheaper than starting up a new route.... and is cheaper than extending Bx41's to the airport. I bet that was the thinking.... I just can't imagine the Bx41 and the M60 on Astoria Blvd... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2841 Posted November 21, 2013 I know, I'm just saying that as of now the idea is an extended Bx41 instead of Bx50. Gotcha. I just can't imagine the Bx41 and the M60 on Astoria Blvd... Yeah, I hear ya... To be honest, IDK how they were gonna route those (extended) airport bound Bx41's..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2842 Posted November 21, 2013 Talkin about the Fordham-LGA route?That's because it wasn't.... As I understand it, the Bx41 to LGA was supposed to be the original rendition of SBS on the Bx41.... (This is what killed talks of that Bx50) As you can see, the Bx41 SBS doesn't come close to serving LGA! So all the Bx41 to LGA talks did was put the Bx50 proposal on the backburner... I'd argue that having had artics later placed on the M60 was a very (half-assed) substitute of having *some* semblance of SBS service to the airport.... Sure, Bronx folks still have to xfer to the M60 - But after all, at least now they're transferring... to articulated buses.... In plain english, putting artics on M60's is cheaper than starting up a new route.... and is cheaper than extending Bx41's to the airport. I bet that was the thinking.... The way I understood it, they were looking into it as part of the LGA Access studies, which wrapped up much later than the Bx41 studies. At that point, DOT was like "eh, maybe later", since they already went through the whole consulting community board business and would probably have to do it twice and include Queens. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2843 Posted November 21, 2013 Brooklyn bus mentioned the b23 so i decided to work with it, i want to see what do you guys and brooklyn bus think https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=218345366120084192601.0004eb94d2d9a0fb63fd9 I would do more with the B23 by involving more routes to solve other problems. But what you suggest would help as a stopgap measure. It would certainly make the B23 more useful. The only thing is that the bus would have to go north on Albany and south on NY Ave, not the other way around, because the bus could not make a right turn from New York to Winthrop without banning parking and putting in a recessed stop line. Having the loop go te other way with a left from Winthrop to New York, causes no such problems. Multiple bus routes serve the airports from stations that are ADA accessible. LIRR+bus/AirTrain is not expensive: $5 offpeak/$8 peak and $2.50 for the bus to LGA, and $7/$9.50 for LIRR and $5 for the AirTrain. Using the subway will cut total costs to $2.50 for LGA and $7.50 for JFK (or $2.50 if you're using the Q10). I feel like airport express routes would eat up a lot of money just to provide duplicative options. If this was about serving hubs outside of Manhattan it might be better (like say, a route to/from Atlantic Terminal), but those would have to be discussed on their own merits. LIRR is fine if you live in northern Brooklyn, but very inconvenient from southern Brooklyn. It could take you 45 minutes to an hour just to get to the railroad, then you still need the railroad and Airtrain. Not very convenient. A bus on the Belt Parkway with limited stops would be faster. Could definitely be done once reconstruction is finished. Buses could be allowed to use shoulder when road is congested. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2844 Posted November 21, 2013 LIRR is fine if you live in northern Brooklyn, but very inconvenient from southern Brooklyn. It could take you 45 minutes to an hour just to get to the railroad, then you still need the railroad and Airtrain. Not very convenient. Yep, same argument/logic applies for MNRR, LIRR, and PABT if you work in lower manhattan (instead of in/around midtown)..... Anyway, the ride on the to atlantic in the morning is about a good 20 mins. or so.... about to leave right now as a matter of fact.... Brooklyn bus mentioned the b23 so i decided to work with it, i want to see what do you guys and brooklyn bus think https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=218345366120084192601.0004eb94d2d9a0fb63fd9 This is nothing more than a prolonged version of the problems the old B23 had..... Running buses up to KCH would spawn more ridership on the eastern end of the route (to an extent, nothing drastic), but it would do virtually nothing for the western end.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2845 Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) This is nothing more than a prolonged version of the problems the old B23 had..... Running buses up to KCH would spawn more ridership on the eastern end of the route (to an extent, nothing drastic), but it would do virtually nothing for the western end.... Correct about the first part. That's why I called it a stop gap measure. The route either should be spilt at McDonald as I proposed on my website Brooklynbus.tripod.com or extended along 65 St and Bay Ridge Avenue to replace the B64 there. At the eastern end, in addition to service the area around the hospital it would give connections to the B35 and B12 for travel eastward. When I made a similar proposal to East Flatbush back in 1978 and gave them this option or continuing the route along Avenue D to Utica to connect with the B8 and B46. They chose the Kings County Hospital option. Edited November 21, 2013 by BrooklynBus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2846 Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Yeah, I hear ya... To be honest, IDK how they were gonna route those (extended) airport bound Bx41's..... My best guess would be another stop at 138 St for the , then a left on 134, merge onto the Bruckner, RFK then make the same stops as the M60 SBS. Edited November 21, 2013 by Q43LTD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreeddekalbL Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2847 Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) My best guess would be another stop at 138 St for the , then a left on 134, merge onto the Bruckner, RFK then make the same stops as the M60 SBS. does the bronx to lga sbs really need to make stops in queens? Edited November 21, 2013 by BreeddekalbL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted November 22, 2013 Share #2848 Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) does the bronx to lga sbs really need to make stops in queens?If the demand is there, yeah. Why? Would you make it non stop to the airport? Edited November 22, 2013 by Q43LTD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted November 22, 2013 Share #2849 Posted November 22, 2013 My best guess would be another stop at 138 St for the , then a left on 134, merge onto the Bruckner, RFK then make the same stops as the M60 SBS. That's the part I was wondering about.... ....after coming off the triborough.... RFK.... triborough, would they have had buses on Astoria, etc. paralleling M60's, or would they have had buses running on the GCP all the way there..... does the bronx to lga sbs really need to make stops in queens? lol.... good point. As was said though, it would depend on how many folks are taking buses to LGA.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted November 22, 2013 Share #2850 Posted November 22, 2013 does the bronx to lga sbs really need to make stops in queens? At the very least, it could stop at Astoria Blvd . No need to tell tourists that they can only take one bus to the subway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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