Viable Platform Screen Doors (Dynamic Doors) For NYCS? What do YOU Think?

[Fan Railer]

The video is self explanatory, and I think it would be a good system for NYCT considering that most trains will still be manually run until the the 2050's or so. The question is, can the afford this? It's probably more expensive than standard PSDs.

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[Tokkemon]

No.

[Broadway Local]

It will cost too much for all 468 stations to have these "Dynamic" doors!

[Fan Railer]

It will cost too much for all 468 stations to have these "Dynamic" doors!

 

Ok, well obviously it isn't a one shot installment, just like CBTC isn't a one shot systemwide installment. It would have to be implemented section by section, starting with the most crowded and dangerous stations first. I would say a 10 year installment period is reasonable.

[error46146]

No No and No!!

 

Our subway is simply too old to be retrofitted with this kind of stuff and was not designed to accompany it.. It would cost millions to just simply prep and redesign the platforms and stations just so they would be able to install these doors, not to mention the cost of them actually purchasing it and installing it. The costs that are required to do such a thing greatly overshadows any benefit that it may bring to the subway system.

[Snowblock]

It'll be worth the cost if it saves even one life........SMH

[NewFlyer 230]

No I don't think the MTA would get those doors. If they did they would probably test 2 or 3 stations on their favorite lines,L, and Lexington Ave Lines.

[Broadway Local]

Ok, well obviously it isn't a one shot installment, just like CBTC isn't a one shot systemwide installment. It would have to be implemented section by section, starting with the most crowded and dangerous stations first. I would say a 10 year installment period is reasonable.

 

 

The Dynamic doors on the platforms can also have Mechanical Problems which can cause delays, frustration sometimes, and more. If it's damaged either by the customer or the mechanics, it will make a significant increase of money for the MTA to rebuild, fix or remove it! It will cost too much, and the MTA could end up into poverty after all of the money spending.

 

We'll let the MTA decide if it's doing enough to stop 12-9s from happening, or any crime.

[Guest Lance]

Hold the phone folks. Now, as most of you guys here know, I've been against PSDs for quite some time. Mainly because most suggestions have been revolving around static doors that can't shift and PSDs like that would be impossible for the obvious reasons. Either something along the lines of CBTC would have to be implemented system wide or we'd need a completely unified fleet for the A and B divisions. Both of those options are not feasible for, once again, obvious reasons. Now if something is built along the lines of what's in the video FanRailer posted, I would not be opposed to it because it'd be useful for keeping people from falling off the tracks as well as practical for varied fleets on both divisions. Of course, there would be maintenance costs as there are with literally anything. To completely shoot down the idea simply because of said costs would be kind of stupid in my opinion. I mean, you wouldn't for instance, not buy a car because you had to pay to fill up the gas tank every so often now would you?

[Tokkemon]

The best prevention of keeping people off the tracks is standing back from the platform edge.

[Fan Railer]

The best prevention of keeping people off the tracks is standing back from the platform edge.

 

Wow.... looks like we've got an idealist here. Great idea, not really. Now tell that to everyone who stands too close to the edge, or is suicidal.

[Art Vandelay]

You don't even need that.

See Paris.

Older lines than our oldest subways have been converted to PSDs. Age is not an issue.

Lines with comparable ridership to our busier lines have been converted to PSDs. Capacity is not an issue(Actually, it isn't not an issue, it is a reason for such a conversion!)

 

There is no reason the A division and Eastern Division could not be done today. There is also no reason that it could not be done in the future on other lines, once the R68s are retired. I think the downsides clearly outweigh the upsides until CBTC is in place at the very least, as I am sure manual operation would lead to delays due to doors not always lining up.

 

Once CBTC is in place, however, I am less convinced that PSD's are "expensive". They have substantial cost saving potential, if you open your eyes to what it really means. Elsewhere, when lines have been retrofitted with PSD's it has generally come with automation. CBTC+PSD = no technical barrier to ZPTO. While the prevention of lawsuits and delays from 12-9s would also be an added upside, it pales in comparison.

 

The Dynamic doors, while absolutely fascinating seem to me to be largely unneeded. We can just order cars for the future which have similar door patterns to the current fleet. (we can do that regardless of length. no reason a 5 door 75 foot car couldn't have similar door placement to a 60 footer. They don't have to be exactly the same- just close enough.)

 

Disclaimer- I am not saying we SHOULD do anything specific- just saying what has been the trend elsewhere, and what we COULD do with such technology.

[Concourse Express]

In terms of spending I'd prioritize station rehabs/renewals, countdown clocks, and service increases over this.

Perhaps the full-length SAS (or possibly the line) could be test beds for PSD/PDD installations at some point in the future, but not now...

[Guest Lance]

Concerning funds for such a project, I'd be looking into federal/state funds that are separate from other maintenance and rehab projects so it wouldn't be an either or type of situation. But that's neither here nor there at the moment.

[Roadcruiser1]

One benefit I can name with platform screen doors would be the air conditioning of subway stations since they would now be enclosed.

[R32 3838]

three words WASTE OF MONEY!!!, it won't work here

[Art Vandelay]

There is no reason it couldn't work here. The technology exists and is successful elsewhere.

[error46146]

Just because it is successful elsewhere does not mean it will be successful here. The platforms are already narrow enough as is, take Lexington Ave-53rd Street for an example.. To add in the platform doors would only make a bad situation even worse.

 

Zero-Person Train Operation is one of the most absolutely horrible rail transit ideas I have ever heard of.. The subway is not an elevator. I'd much rather have a live human being who is able to sense what is around him and respond in case of an emergency in charge of my train instead of some algorithm running on a computer program which just blindly adds and decreases power to the traction motors. Same goes for automated cars.

[Tokkemon]

Too bad it worked in Vancouver with no accidents ever in its 25 year history.

[Art Vandelay]

Actually, as physics is the same worldwide, it working elsewhere IS in fact proof that it can work here. ZPTO is successful elsewhere, and nothing prevents such from being put in place here. And for that matter, it does work here, in the borough of Queens.

[Joel Up Front]

Actually, as physics is the same worldwide, it working elsewhere IS in fact proof that it can work here. ZPTO is successful elsewhere, and nothing prevents such from being put in place here. And for that matter, it does work here, in the borough of Queens.

 

 

My brain hurts trying to understand how this links to anything.

[Joe]

With ZPTO, you can't beg the motorman to let you have a go.

[Art Vandelay]

The electronics which work in Paris, have the same electrical principles in new york. The gravity pounding the millions of feet against the door tracks in london would weigh the same in new york. The friction which must be overcome by the door motors in JFK will have the same effect in the other 3 boroughs.

 

I was just poking fun at the idea that something which has been proven to work time and time again elsewhere can't work in NYC for some reason.

[Fan Railer]

I was just poking fun at the idea that something which has been proven to work time and time again elsewhere can't work in NYC for some reason.

 

This is the one thing where I just have to disagree with you.

Case in point: Rockwell Articulated Trucks on the R46s.

Yes, it was a poorly planned procurement, but they obviously worked elsewhere, but didn't work so well here.

Not to say that it completely invalidates your statement, since platform screen doors have been proven to work at multitudes of cities, especially ones with transit systems that have similar capacities as NYC.

[Joe]

The Rockwell trucks didn't work because the TA ordered something that was known not to perform well on the type of track in the transit system. With diligence, PSDs can (and probably will) work.