How do you rate select bus service on the BX12 and other routes?

[bknightshadow45]

I had an interesting experience while going home from Orchard Beach last Saturday evening. Shortly before 6:30pm I boarded a BX12 local bus to Inwood-207th Street at Pelham Bay Park train stop. I assume the bus I boarded came from the beach since many of the beach bus BX12 buses were from Kingsbridge depot not from Gunhill depot. The bus I rode made local stops and it passed one local bus and a select BX12 bus which also going to Inwood-207th Street. The select BX12 got a head start of the local BX12 that I boarded at Pelham Bay. As I was riding the local BX12 bus I noticed most people waited at bus stops for the select bus which my bus was going to the same destination to Manhattan that they waited to board a crushload select bus. Only few people noticed that the there was a local BX12 bus going to Inwood during daytime hours tried to get on the bus with the select bus tickets only to be told by the driver that they have to pay another fare in the local bus. By the time my bus reached Inwood basically the entire bus was empty and beat the crushload select BX12 which had a head start from Pelham Bay by 2-3 minutes.

 

I'm aware that the had designed select bus service for faster service. I would not even imagine a local BX12 from Pelham Bay would outpaced a select BX12 bus. I just want your opinion on the current state of select bus service on how it should improve that I noticed that the needs to make some improvements on select bus service.

[FamousNYLover]

I think maybe Bx12 SBS are popular than Bx12 Local, so maybe that could be reason local beat SBS.

 

I still have to compare between M15 Local and SBS between 126th St Depot and South Ferry.

 

M34 SBS and M34A SBS are very fast compare to old days of M16/M34.

[bknightshadow45]

I think maybe Bx12 SBS are popular than Bx12 Local, so maybe that could be reason local beat SBS.

 

I still have to compare between M15 Local and SBS between 126th St Depot and South Ferry.

 

M34 SBS and M34A SBS are very fast compare to old days of M16/M34.

 

From what I observe and ridden the BX12 over the years, I do agree that the select bus is more popular than the local buses. Outside the Orchard Beach BX12 local buses, I haven't seen many people ride the local buses since most of the buses during the day don't go to Inwood.

[Gorgor]

Only few people noticed that the there was a local BX12 bus going to Inwood during daytime hours tried to get on the bus with the select bus tickets only to be told by the driver that they have to pay another fare in the local bus. By the time my bus reached Inwood basically the entire bus was empty and beat the crushload select BX12 which had a head start from Pelham Bay by 2-3 minutes.

 

 

Really? The driver told them to pay an additional fare? A few times I've purchased an M15 SBS ticket but the local came within a minute and there was no SBS in sight. I would just walk on, holding the ticket in my hand, and the driver would never stop me or say anything.

 

I can't talk about the Bx12 SBS from personal experience, but from what I assume, I would say that the M15 SBS is much faster than its local counterpart than the Bx12 SBS is from its because 1st and 2nd Avenues have timed lights. Usually an M15 SBS will hit no more than two red lights between stops, whereas the local will get stopped by a light after each local stop (or completely miss one light cycle). The Bx12 uses 2-way streets the entire route, so it will get caught by about the same amount of lights as the local. There's also never any traffic going uptown on 1st Avenue, and there have been times (particularly between 67th and 79th) when there's no cars around because the light's about to change, and the driver would just gun it and it would feel like we were doing at least 40mph.

[Astoria Line]

I thought that if you pay at stop, and got a SBS ticket, but a local came first, you could just show the driver your SBS ticket which shows that you paid the fare, but I guess that wasn't the case in this situation...

 

The M15 SBS is really fast but as Gorgor said, 1st/2nd Avenues have timed lights, whcih helps the bus move faster...

The M34/M34A are faster than the old M16/M34, but they bunch up a lot... I like that that route has timers to tell you when the next bus is coming, that is really cool.

 

About the BX12, the SBS probably was crowded because they thought that it would be faster than the local, but considering that so much ppl got on, it made the trip longer (more ppl getting on at the stops, I guess), and if your bus had a light load, then I could definetly see why you passed an SBS bus...

[Concourse Express]

The other problem the Bx12 +SBS has, particularly while traveling along Fordham Rd, is private cars and other vehicles in the bus lanes, forcing the buses to merge into the congested traffic lanes. Methinks more enforcement of the bus lanes is needed. And yes, overcrowding is another issue; MTA is set to increase service on the Bx12 +SBS in response to said overcrowding in September (but Bx12 local service will see slight service reductions); see p.123 of this MTA document for more info.

[BrooklynIRT]

Good analysis by Gorgor.

 

And yes, overcrowding is another issue; MTA is set to increase service on the Bx12 +SBS in response to said overcrowding in September (but Bx12 local service will see slight service reductions); see p.123 of this MTA document for more info.

 

I noticed this quite a bit at 10th Ave and Fordham Plaza. The M15 SBS only takes an average of 20 to 25 seconds to pick up everybody at each stop along 1st Ave, including 20 to 25 seconds on average at 14 St which is the heaviest stop on 1st Ave, while the Bx12 SBS tends to sit on its a$$ at 10th Ave and Fordham Plaza for a good 30+ seconds because so many people are getting on, having queued up because the Bx12 SBS is not frequent enough.

 

But it also would have diminished dwell times immensely if NYCT had purchased LFSAs with wider 2nd/3rd doors like those featured on the Columbia University LFSs. I hope they consider this for future orders of buses they plan to use on SBS lines.

 

It makes sense that the M15 SBS is more frequent than the Bx12 SBS since the former has higher ridership, but the Bx12 SBS gets very crowded with its current service levels, so it is not like the excessive dwell time at bus stops is the only reason why it should have more service.

 

They MUST do something about the problems with the ticket machines that result in people being summonsed for being unable to produce tickets when they intended on paying but could not due to faulty machinery. Things like this are not conducive to ridership growth at all. Does anybody know whether the problem is that the actual machine components are breaking, or that the machines run out of paper to print the receipts?

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

I like the Bx12 +Select a lot. The frequency is good for me, reliability isn't bad and the buses aren't that slow. I can get from Bartow/Edson to Fordham Plaza in 25-30 minutes even when the bus is crowded. M15 to me seems the slowest of the +SBS routes and least reliable. It took 40 minutes for me to get from 23rd to South Ferry on M15. Although speed wise the trip up 1st Avenue is much better.

[BrooklynIRT]

I think 1st Ave from 2nd St to 125 St is better than any stretch that any SBS line currently in operation uses since it is unidirectional and the signals are timed.

 

Edson to Plaza is seven stops in 25-30 minutes but 2nd to 125 via 1st Ave is 14 stops in 40-43 minutes maximum during middays and rush hours when traffic is heaviest.

[Concourse Express]

Good analysis by Gorgor.

 

 

 

I noticed this quite a bit at 10th Ave and Fordham Plaza. The M15 SBS only takes an average of 20 to 25 seconds to pick up everybody at each stop along 1st Ave, including 20 to 25 seconds on average at 14 St which is the heaviest stop on 1st Ave, while the Bx12 SBS tends to sit on its a$$ at 10th Ave and Fordham Plaza for a good 30+ seconds because so many people are getting on, having queued up because the Bx12 SBS is not frequent enough.

 

But it also would have diminished dwell times immensely if NYCT had purchased LFSAs with wider 2nd/3rd doors like those featured on the Columbia University LFSs. I hope they consider this for future orders of buses they plan to use on SBS lines.

 

It makes sense that the M15 SBS is more frequent than the Bx12 SBS since the former has higher ridership, but the Bx12 SBS gets very crowded with its current service levels, so it is not like the excessive dwell time at bus stops is the only reason why it should have more service.

 

They MUST do something about the problems with the ticket machines that result in people being summonsed for being unable to produce tickets when they intended on paying but could not due to faulty machinery. Things like this are not conducive to ridership growth at all. Does anybody know whether the problem is that the actual machine components are breaking, or that the machines run out of paper to print the receipts?

 

 

10th Ave? Don't you mean 3rd Ave? And I agree that busted or faulty machines don't help either! In addition to OOS machines (and one time, both machines at the +SBS stop at Fordham Rd/Valentine Ave were OOS), you also have machines that deduct fares but don't spit out receipts (happened to me once; I also witnessed it happen to a few others). In the latter case, it wasn't that there was no more receipt paper; when it happened to me, the next person who used it got a receipt!

 

I like the Bx12 +Select a lot. The frequency is good for me, reliability isn't bad and the buses aren't that slow. I can get from Bartow/Edson to Fordham Plaza in 25-30 minutes even when the bus is crowded. M15 to me seems the slowest of the +SBS routes and least reliable. It took 40 minutes for me to get from 23rd to South Ferry on M15. Although speed wise the trip up 1st Avenue is much better.

 

 

Bear in mind that SAS construction affects the reliability of the M15 +SBS going S/B. That, and heavy traffic in Manhattan's CBD.

While the Bx12 +SBS is a relatively fast crosstown bus, the upcoming service increases are desperately needed. (As an aside, school will be in session when the increases take effect; students contribute significantly to midday Bx12 +SBS crowding in both directions.)

 

I think 1st Ave from 2nd St to 125 St is better than any stretch that any SBS line currently in operation uses since it is unidirectional and the signals are timed.

 

Edson to Plaza is seven stops in 25-30 minutes but 2nd to 125 via 1st Ave is 14 stops in 40-43 minutes maximum during middays and rush hours when traffic is heaviest.

 

 

Though I only rode the M15 +SBS once and in the N/B direction, I do agree. The bus was flying (until we ran into traffic in the UES, but it was smooth again once we reached East Harlem).

[BrooklynIRT]

I meant 10th Ave where the crowds transfer from the . Both that stop and Fordham Plaza/3rd Ave. Fordham Plaza and 3rd Ave mean the same thing to me.

[checkmatechamp13]

It makes sense that the M15 SBS is more frequent than the Bx12 SBS since the former has higher ridership, but the Bx12 SBS gets very crowded with its current service levels, so it is not like the excessive dwell time at bus stops is the only reason why it should have more service.

 

The Bx12 has something like 48,000 riders vs. 53,000 on the M15, so it's not like it's that much of a difference. Aside from that, the Bx12 is more cost-efficient (something like $0.93 per passenger vs. $1.19 on the M15).

[BrooklynIRT]

Where did you find the most recent CPP figures and where can I find them whenever MTA updates them?

[paulrivera]

I use this route at a minimum of twice a week, here are my thoughts:

Service is inconsistent, the buses are too crowded, and the traffic situation on Fordham doesnt help.

 

On top of that, there's a big construction project along Pelham Pkwy that requires Bx12 buses heading east to use the service road. But, it's the buses going the other way that get stuck in traffic during the week because they put a reversible lane on the westbound side to make up for the lack of eastbound lanes, knocking the lanes down to two lanes and a de facto bus lane that none of the B/O's use because it's full of potholes.

 

The buses will still be crowded now because of everyone going to the beach, the mall, and the zoo, but more service is going to be added for the fall, thankfully. Let's see what happens in September...

[checkmatechamp13]

Where did you find the most recent CPP figures and where can I find them whenever MTA updates them?

 

 

I can't find any recent figures. I was just going off the 2009 figures from the booklet (so they're about 2.5 years old). I mean, in order to get the most recent numbers, I'd probably have to file a FOIL request, which is a pain in the ***.

 

But I figure that ranking-wise, they can't have changed too much. I mean, +SBS+ might've improved the performance of the M15, but I'd still assume the Bx12 performs better in terms of CCP.

[youngblaze]

Good analysis by Gorgor.

 

 

 

I noticed this quite a bit at 10th Ave and Fordham Plaza. The M15 SBS only takes an average of 20 to 25 seconds to pick up everybody at each stop along 1st Ave, including 20 to 25 seconds on average at 14 St which is the heaviest stop on 1st Ave, while the Bx12 SBS tends to sit on its a$$ at 10th Ave and Fordham Plaza for a good 30+ seconds because so many people are getting on, having queued up because the Bx12 SBS is not frequent enough.

 

But it also would have diminished dwell times immensely if NYCT had purchased LFSAs with wider 2nd/3rd doors like those featured on the Columbia University LFSs. I hope they consider this for future orders of buses they plan to use on SBS lines.

 

It makes sense that the M15 SBS is more frequent than the Bx12 SBS since the former has higher ridership, but the Bx12 SBS gets very crowded with its current service levels, so it is not like the excessive dwell time at bus stops is the only reason why it should have more service.

 

They MUST do something about the problems with the ticket machines that result in people being summonsed for being unable to produce tickets when they intended on paying but could not due to faulty machinery. Things like this are not conducive to ridership growth at all. Does anybody know whether the problem is that the actual machine components are breaking, or that the machines run out of paper to print the receipts?

 

 

You raised a good point I do believe they should up the number of runs that go out from 38 to about 40-42.

 

--

 

However, working the Bx9 last pick I did notice that the SBS tends to bunch up during rush hour and it is due to individuals not respecting the bus lane along Fordham....the DOT needs to really get up off their a** and repaint the lane. All that is left is some faded burgundy paint and the cars just spill over into the lane blocking buses from getting through.

[BrooklynIRT]

You have to remember that this is a free country and many feel that this empowers them to do whatever the hell they want even if it means slowing the shit out of bus service

[youngblaze]

You have to remember that this is a free country and many feel that this empowers them to do whatever the hell they want even if it means slowing the shit out of bus service

 

 

Selfishness is what I call it lol

[VWM]

I hate the M34/A. Slow, bunchy, etc. but in ever rode it before the SBS change, so I can't say.

[BrooklynIRT]

The M34/A is a lousy excuse for a SBS line with all those stops. If you are going to have a supposed "rapid" bus making all those stops you really need to either do a better job enforcing bus lanes or just put the damn thing on a physically separated busway.

 

Thanks to the good residents of 34th St for watering down the M34/A SBS from its original proposal. None of these things come without headaches.

[Concourse Express]

The M34/A is a lousy excuse for a SBS line with all those stops. If you are going to have a supposed "rapid" bus making all those stops you really need to either do a better job enforcing bus lanes or just put the damn thing on a physically separated busway.

 

Thanks to the good residents of 34th St for watering down the M34/A SBS from its original proposal. None of these things come without headaches.

 

 

As I work along 34 St, I get to see the M34/A +SBS first hand. It seems to bunch often, the bus lanes are often occupied (either by the tourist double-deckers, mail trucks, or other vehicles), and I can still occasionally out-walk the +SBS over the short distance between 6th Ave and Madison Ave. Even so, it's probably still an improvement over the old pattern (though IINM the combining of the M16/M34 into M34/A +SBS led to service cuts on the branch portions of each route on weekends...)