NYC Subway proposals and "real world" expansion ( i.e light rail) 2012-'13

[Shortline Bus]

Before we expand the to run full route on weekends lets do the following first west end.

 

1)Increase headways on the on weekends to every 6-8 minutes Sat. appx. 11am-10pm and Sundays 12 Noon-8pm.

2)Extend the to Essex on weekends and even overnights.

 

If those plans is not enough, than you have a good argument for running the full length 7 days a week.

 

 

When it comes to service improvements, I think the should run its full route on weekends. riders are often irritated by the amount of transfers it takes to get anywhere, and the is already associated with being slow, inefficient, and overcrowded. service would prove to be quite popular since it would provide a one-seat ride to many neighborhoods frequented by weekenders (e.g. Williamsburg, LES, NoLIta, the Village, Chelsea, Turtle Bay, etc.) as well as better access to the West Side of Manhattan.

 

On a side note, I was thinking of more cost-effective ways to alleviate the bottlenecks in Manhattan (other than reinstating a whole subway line). I was thinking that having the skip 49th Street at all times would help. It would give the enough clearance to pass the and reduce overall congestion between 57th/7th and Herald Square. This would also free up Canal Street, similar to how the and run on weekends. However, I am also aware that 49th Street is a busy station in Midtown that would lead to increased crowding on the and if this were implemented. I'm not sure if the pros outweigh the cons. Thoughts?

 

[RollOver]

What would happen if Broadway and 4th Avenue local customers have two local services via the arriving within ten minutes throughout the day instead of just increasing the frequency of the latter? What would happen if the service was to beefed up to arriving within any minute and second during rush hours or the peak? Wouldn't it just delay service and prevent a second weekday-Astoria service?

 

Long ago when Lance the moderator closed the Service Restoration thread, she stated that sending all trains to Brooklyn would be too over-skilled. In the past, there were three Broadway services besides the and and all shared ridership. If the old brown didn't gain that much ridership for its South Brooklyn extension then how would the be the same as the brown ? Isn't restoring an entire line the only why to increase the frequency of the Broadway and Fourth Avenue local stops due to the 60th Street Tube section of the Broadway Line where three services (two Astoria services and one Queens Blvd service) share a track and come within ten minutes?.....

[TheSubwayStation]

Nobody so far has explained why 4 Av actually needs more service. Like I said, the comes every 6 minutes during rush hour, and every 10 minutes off-peak. I really don't understand why everybody's saying that the desperately needs help when there are other trains that are just as infrequent or more.

[qjtransitmaster]

Here's a map that I have made, well sort of. I used the MTA map as a template (hope that's ok) and then I added onto it some research that I have done for realistic subway expansion using underutilized or abandoned tracks. The map explains the expansion. You should be able to download it from the link and look at it more closely. I did not give specific names to the stations.

 

All subway expansion is either already planned or on currently underutilized tracks. Staten Island gets its second SIR line on a currently abandoned railroad, the Bay Ridge LIRR becomes a radial subway line, and the LIC branch of the LIRR becomes a subway line speedily and frequently running along the bottom of Queens. It could not be linked to the 7 due to costs and track width but with transfers and frequent ferry services it could work.

 

In Bay Ridge, where the radial line terminates, would be a choice of ferries (run in the frequency of a subway line and run by the MTA) to bring passengers to Staten Island, Manhattan, or other parts of Brooklyn and Queens. This will be a popular commuting method for people in southwestern Brooklyn since it might be quicker.

 

The thin red lines in Staten Island, Queens and Brooklyn are light rail lines to feed subway lines and connect neighborhoods. These could be reduced to Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) if we get desperate. I have a wobbly line along the Brooklyn waterfront from Red Hood, through Downtown and up to Williamsburg; we need a link there. Up in the Bronx, Co-op City finally gets a better transit option, and LaGuardia is finally linked to the system better than with the ridiculous buses that connect it now.

 

In Manhattan, I have rerouted the lower part of SAS along the J/Z. It is underutilized and Chambers Street would be a beautiful terminus for SAS if it were ever renovated. We might be able to save a couple of billion with the SAS rerouting to fund other projects. The only station missing from it, really, is the Seaport station which might be able to be added to the A/C before it heads into Brooklyn.

 

Have a look and give me input. I'd appreciate it. It's not perfect, but the thing about my map is that it is not THAT much of a fantasy. It is just a reworking of things that are already there and a few light rail lines and ferries. It would make life easier for millions of people.

 

there is very little fantasy on this map most are BRILLIANT. However some should be different. Like the bay ridge LIRR can be transfered to metro-north via enhanced NH branch line frequency more danbury trains or new cannan trains the line gets called X corridor for penn service transfer to LIRR. Extend this X corridor to st george ppl hate ferries anyway. the redhook LRT should go to jackson heights or lga. the co-op LRT I LOVE IT BUT MTA is stubborn some I doubt will get done soon

[qjtransitmaster]

SAS should go to inwood via GWB terminal but that can be later phase nobody likes driving the harlem river and M98 is slow getting stuck too much

[RollOver]

Nobody so far has explained why 4 Av actually needs more service. Like I said, the comes every 6 minutes during rush hour, and every 10 minutes off-peak. I really don't understand why everybody's saying that the desperately needs help when there are other trains that are just as infrequent or more.

 

 

Exactly my point! All or most trains have a ten minute interval. The Fourth Avenue Local service does need more due to all 's getting delayed to allow the go first at 34th and that's whats plaguing the Broadway Line. At least rush hours is when a supplement should be added while the comes once every ten minutes throughout the daily basis due to Astoria needing to be kept with two services like before which results in three of those lines arriving one by one within ten minutes at the 60th Street section of the Broadway Line as I explain NUMEROUS times if you re-read the previous posts.

 

Trains can be close or on to schedule not just manually. Remember it's the passangers that causes the trains to be far or close to schedule (as well as breakdowns, track or signal problems WHICH of course is every day life work situations) when they commute during the rush hours. At least during that period is when the should be extended to Brooklyn via the old to help the . The come once every ten minutes while the arrive twice every ten minutes due to the 60th Street Tube and plus the going to SAS but to 96th Street for Phase I. THAT'S what I've been trying to say and I am still waiting for someone to get through what I said and even re-read the posts!

[TheSubwayStation]

The Fourth Avenue Local service does need more due to all 's getting delayed to allow the go first at 34th and that's whats plaguing the Broadway Line.

Well, that would be solved by terminating the at Whitehall St. I still see no need for an extra 4 Av local. This discussion is starting to sound like a broken record again.

 

Don't you guys think it's getting to be time for one of these:

[RollOver]

Well, that would be solved by terminating the at Whitehall St. I still see no need for an extra 4 Av local. This discussion is starting to sound like a broken record again.

 

Don't you guys think it's getting to be time for one of these:

 

 

And do YOU think that threaten locks is actually going to make it get close?! You think that scares me?....I really don't care anymore...just re-read all previous posts and get through what I said instead of falling under the influence of your own hypocrisy. ):<

[TheSubwayStation]

And do YOU think that threaten locks is actually going to make it get close?! You think that scares me?....I really don't care anymore...just re-read all previous posts and get through what I said instead of falling under the influence of your own hypocrisy. ):<

 

I'm not threatening anything...I'm just suggesting what I think should happen. I'm not trying to scare you away from posting your ideas; you've posted plenty of ideas and I've read them. I understand that I shouldn't have done it with the other thread that you started. But now this is just turning into another "Bring back the train!" thread, and every other thread has gotten locked.

[Threxx]

And do YOU think that threaten locks is actually going to make it get close?! You think that scares me?....I really don't care anymore...just re-read all previous posts and get through what I said instead of falling under the influence of your own hypocrisy. ):<

 

 

Ok, you are scaring me! Everytime someone says the word "lock" in a post, it's not an attack on your ideas for Pete's sake! It's a SUGGESTION. I know you're new and everything, so you're not familiar with the way things go down here, but we don't just shy away from ideas, we have debates! This debate is a broken record! How many times have you said the same thing about the ? My point is made...

[Threxx]

Nobody so far has explained why 4 Av actually needs more service. Like I said, the comes every 6 minutes during rush hour, and every 10 minutes off-peak. I really don't understand why everybody's saying that the desperately needs help when there are other trains that are just as infrequent or more.

 

 

That's the schedule. The dosen't actually come every 6 minutes! It gets bogged down in stations with traffic, the doors on the R46 have that weird delay, and the bottle necks at all the junctions don't help. Yes, a restored would get caught up in most of this, but the sheer fact that there are more trains will do something to help.

[TheSubwayStation]

That's the schedule. The dosen't actually come every 6 minutes! It gets bogged down in stations with traffic, the doors on the R46 have that weird delay, and the bottle necks at all the junctions don't help. Yes, a restored would get caught up in most of this, but the sheer fact that there are more trains will do something to help.

 

But the has better on-time performance than many other lines. I still don't really understand why people have singled-out the as a line that needs help.

[Threxx]

But the has better on-time performance than many other lines. I still don't really understand why people have singled-out the as a line that needs help.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but I need proof of that statement for the 's on-time performance. The is never on time. I'm not the one singling it out, I also think the , , and need better off-peak frequencies.

[TheSubwayStation]

You want proof?

 

According to straphangers.org, the "arrives with average reliability", with 78% of trains arriving at regular intervals. (http://www.straphangers.org/statesub11/R.pdf)

 

But the and , for example, only have 66% of trains arriving at regular intervals.

 

As far as the , , and , is that because of crowding or long waiting times?

[overclocked]

 

There is your precious

Carry on

[Threxx]

You want proof?

 

According to straphangers.org, the "arrives with average reliability", with 78% of trains arriving at regular intervals. (http://www.straphang...tatesub11/R.pdf)

 

But the and , for example, only have 66% of trains arriving at regular intervals.

 

As far as the , , and , is that because of crowding or long waiting times?

 

 

You shouldn't trust Straphanger's for ish, IMO...

 

As for the , , and , both. They get very crowded on the weekends. The should come every 5 minutes, the every 7, and the every 5 minutes as well.

[Threxx]

 

There is your precious

Carry on

 

 

That could be mistaken for , though...

 

If the were to return, it may have to use some of the R32 spares, so it's ironic you brought that up...

[TheSubwayStation]

You shouldn't trust Straphanger's for ish, IMO...

I assume that you won't trust the MTA's data, either (or any data that doesn't show that the has delays, for that matter ), but I might as well post it anyway: http://www.mta.info/...b_indicator.htm

 

If this data is accurate, and I actually trust it more than anybody's personal experiences, then the doesn't get delayed more often than other lines.

 

Before this thread gets locked (I'm guessing that it will), I'll post this proposal to reduce delays:

 

Switch express/local in the Bronx.

[Threxx]

Switch express/local in the Bronx.

 

 

No, no. o_O

 

Ironically, riders from Harlem often ride to Simpson Street and other local stops for shopping and the Bronx Zoo, so that will be an unpopular change. I actually think that this should happen:

 

service is unchanged.

Dyre Avenue trains run local, and Neried Avenue trains run express.

[TheSubwayStation]

No, no. o_O Wait...Is this a notorious topic like sending the to Lefferts?

 

Ironically, riders from Harlem often ride to Simpson Street and other local stops for shopping and the Bronx Zoo, so that will be an unpopular change. Where did you hear that? (Not a criticism, I'm just asking.) I actually think that this should happen:

 

service is unchanged.

Dyre Avenue trains run local, and Neried Avenue trains run express. That actually seems like a good idea. Although, then there'll be half as many express trains of course.

 

[Threxx]

Y U NO QUOTE QUOTE?

 

 

1. It kinda is...

 

2. Anyone who rides the often in that area can figure this out.

 

3. That's the point, we need more local trains...

[TheSubwayStation]

Okay, I'll end this discussion...I don't feel like starting a "Riders want this!" "No, riders want that!" debate, as I don't know much of anything about Bronx ridership.

[Brooklyn]

Here's a map that I have made, well sort of. I used the MTA map as a template (hope that's ok) and then I added onto it some research that I have done for realistic subway expansion using underutilized or abandoned tracks. The map explains the expansion. You should be able to download it from the link and look at it more closely. I did not give specific names to the stations.

 

All subway expansion is either already planned or on currently underutilized tracks. Staten Island gets its second SIR line on a currently abandoned railroad, the Bay Ridge LIRR becomes a radial subway line, and the LIC branch of the LIRR becomes a subway line speedily and frequently running along the bottom of Queens. It could not be linked to the 7 due to costs and track width but with transfers and frequent ferry services it could work.

 

In Bay Ridge, where the radial line terminates, would be a choice of ferries (run in the frequency of a subway line and run by the MTA) to bring passengers to Staten Island, Manhattan, or other parts of Brooklyn and Queens. This will be a popular commuting method for people in southwestern Brooklyn since it might be quicker.

 

The thin red lines in Staten Island, Queens and Brooklyn are light rail lines to feed subway lines and connect neighborhoods. These could be reduced to Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) if we get desperate. I have a wobbly line along the Brooklyn waterfront from Red Hood, through Downtown and up to Williamsburg; we need a link there. Up in the Bronx, Co-op City finally gets a better transit option, and LaGuardia is finally linked to the system better than with the ridiculous buses that connect it now.

 

In Manhattan, I have rerouted the lower part of SAS along the J/Z. It is underutilized and Chambers Street would be a beautiful terminus for SAS if it were ever renovated. We might be able to save a couple of billion with the SAS rerouting to fund other projects. The only station missing from it, really, is the Seaport station which might be able to be added to the A/C before it heads into Brooklyn.

 

Have a look and give me input. I'd appreciate it. It's not perfect, but the thing about my map is that it is not THAT much of a fantasy. It is just a reworking of things that are already there and a few light rail lines and ferries. It would make life easier for millions of people.

 

I believe this was the thread starter.....

[Brighton Express]

Is there any way Amtrak might be willing to give up a track for subway service?

 

I also see the ferries doesn't make sense in some areas either. Subways that can connect to Manhattan should, and not much people are willing to commute via ferries. You might have the tourists, but not a lot of commuters unless if there was no viable alternative such as on Staten Island. Also the (8) line isn't really needed. The gap between the BMT Canarsie Line and the IND Queens Boulevard Line is only 3 miles. I wished the would be a bit more geographically accurate with the maps so this error won't be seen. Thanks to this inaccuracy many people believe Central Queens has no subway service which is inaccurate. That area is also served by the LIRR so it makes a subway expansion here less useful. That line isn't really needed.

 

 

I have seen some PATH trains running beside Amtrak, but I do not know if that has to do with anything.

[RollOver]

I am so upset that the other thread was closed because I wanted go over things again of why the SHOULDN'T EVER AGAIN due to the purpose of cars and cars assigned to a line and I will again. The and service respectively might as well be increased along with the so that way the can handle the crowding load on the Astoria line on weekdays and weekends.

 

Restore an entire line means they have to change station signs again and switching and stealing cars from another line costs more than just increasing service on the and respectively.